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[Rule] Different Uninherited Timing Sections in Taiko

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Topic Starter
OnosakiHito

Ranking Criteria wrote:

  1. Uninherited Timing Sections should be used to accurately map the song's timing. They should synchronize to the beats of the song as accurately as possible and use the correct time signature whenever possible.
So far it is reasonable and clear for osu! maps. You need to have for a song the right timing to be able to map it and get ranked, but there is nothing said about the bars/stanzas which are in Taiko really important.
Unlike osu, you are able to see the bars in Taiko. That means that the bars can effect the players game-play, for example considering 1/3 or 3/4 notes. Especially for the modus Hidden are stanzas really important, since that's the only visual way to be able to recognize the BPM of a map(not sure about HR, but I'm sure well definied bars are helpfull as well).

Example: https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?q=no%2 ... 0no%20game

The maps from the song No pain, No game have only one Timing Point to define the correct BPM, which is enough for osu!, even though the song has more. But for Taiko this wouldn't be the case, since we also have to define the bars, which are changing about 2~3 times. To make my example more clear please read the [General] point from me in this thread: p/2382977


Example-2: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/97957

Slow BPM maps are also a problem in Taiko since they show too many bars or make the notes stucked together:

In our current example the mapper found a solution to avoid the stucked note by placing an inherited timeline at the Timing point which makes the scroll-speed faster, but this isn't an ideal solution at all since the 'overload' of bars still remains, due to the BPM the map has.

So to avoid this 'overload' of bars, better would it be just to double the BPM which would lead to more spreaded bars and less confusion to players:

The bars look fine now, but sometimes the scroll speed feels too fast, so now there would be still the possible move to use inherited timelines again to slower the scroll-speed:
If you compare now this screen with the first one, you can see that the scroll-speed is the same but has less bars.

Example-3: High BPM maps
Same case as in low BPM maps, just in controvers direction.

So the current rule should have an exception for the game mode Taiko to be able to solve such problems by double or halve the BPM and add additional Timing Points for certain situations because:

Timing Point > Inherited Point
Timnig Points set the amount of bars.
Inherited Potins set the scroll-speed.

The BPM would be actually still the same one, all we did is just to fix the scroll-speed and bar-lines which -as I said- are important in Taiko and effect the game-play in some aspects.
Loctav
Maybe a feature request about the barline frequeny? (every downbeat, every 2nd downbeat)
Ephemeral
As Loctav mentioned, this is something that likely requires support on the feature end rather than the policy end. Will be denying this within the next 3 days unless further arguments are brought forward.
TheVileOne
The BATs have never had issues with accepting taiko difficulties with different uninherited points in the past. I think a feature would not be implemented in the near future. BATs should just continue to look the other way and everyone would be happy. There's no need for a rule, unless the BATs have reason to believe that maintaining bar frequency is not important in taiko. They should state their concerns in the mod. It is such a benign issue. If noone considers it an issue. then why argue to change it. (It would break nightcore mod. That's the only problem I would have).
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito

Ranking Criteria wrote:

  1. Uninherited timing sections must be the same in every difficulty of the mapset. That is, each section must have the same BPM and offset in each difficulty. Furthermore, there must not be extra or missing uninherited sections in any difficulty. A song's timing doesn't change between difficulties, so there's no sense in having different uninherited sections per difficulty.
And that's how the modding works, nevermind if the gamemode is different.
Else I wouldn't post this @ TheVileOne. I noticed it often enough how timing has been neglected in taiko.

Loctav is probably right, so I will make a feature request, I guess.
TheVileOne
Contact your well known taiko BATs about this. Get their opinions if you want this to change. Oh and rules are not entirely absolute. If you don't abuse it and truly have a valid point, there is ground to be made. You're not going to get anywhere if the taiko BATs aren't on your side. And yes if you don't notice that the red lines are different across difficulties, it shouldn't make a difference whether it violates a rule or not. Rules are there to ensure the best gameplay for everyone and if there is an exception that clearly indicates that the rule makes a situation worse, then it can be excused. At least it used to be that way before 1/16th were added into the game.

Rules are stated as exceptionless, but that's just the easiest way to phrased how rules are treated. Exceptions can be made for extraordinary circumstances. These extraordinary circumstances usually result in new additions to the game or alterations of the rules. At least that's my outdated point of view. Rules cease to have purpose when they no longer serve the most beneficial outcome.
Sakura
As has been mentioned before, make a feature request for the editor to support such things, a rule change is unnecessary.
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
So yes, we go for the feature request as it seems.
Loctav
Go open one then.
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