adam, you have to keep in mind that something like this would take quite some time for peppy to program, and seeing it's not completely necessary, it'd be better for peppy to be working on other more anticipated features like multiplayer, storyboard editor, or opengl support.

I'm not trying to discourage you from playing or stopping you from improving, I'm just trying to give you suggestions on how to do something like this with the features already in Osu.

peppy wrote:

In fact I don't love it, I find it really assumptious.

That's my favourite phantom word of the week

Totally agree with those who have spoken before, rehearse mod is unnecessary. The hair-tearing and mouse-throwing and tantrums are like 90% of the fun of the game!

After some extensive playing yesterday, my oppinion is that testing shouldn't really be used at all, nor should a rehearse mode, possibly with the exception of extremely long songs (parapara), although that's not going to get ranked.

I kind of like quick clicking with my middle mouse button and hitting retry over and over again until I get a full combo :) Really makes it a satisfying experience.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

I think it is kinda ridiculous that you are calling us to be stuck in a "dark age" just because some people prefers the challenge of learning the song from scratch instead of being able to work on sections they are stuck on and so on.

I am not saying a rehearse mode is not good, but personally, I know even if it is there, I probably won't be using it. XD

And of course, to be honest... I don't think your demo proves anything. If you give me a song and I play that song over an hour with a no fail mod. I probably would be able to FC it too.

some important features are missing in test mode for practicing the EXTREMELY difficult and fast beatmaps

Learn to walk before you run.

Once you've played a while, you'll be able to sight read almost anything. Build up your skill slowly from the beginning. When I started out, I couldn't even finish an easy beatmap. Now, I can FC a fairly hard map in my first few tries.

peppy wrote:

Reikin wrote:

peppy, some clarification is required on what you mean by blocking out test mode. Are you blocking it out from all songs or just the story mode songs or something else?

peppy wrote:

Eventually with story mode, editor will be locked for songs, so you won't be able to use test mode either.

Am I not clear enough?

Actually you weren't until you said this later on the post.

peppy wrote:

Also if you read my original message, I did say it was for story mode. It will also be true for any competition maps or other special maps. No it will not be locked for ranked maps....

That aside...

peppy wrote:

Reikin wrote:

..the console version of a game that originated from the arcade almost always have a Practice/Training mode

Training mode where you can play specific portions of the song? I have never seen this.

Take a look at an FAQ website such as GameFAQs for games such as Beatmania or DDR. Most of these game have included a training mode of sorts, and where it hasn't been done is on very old consoles such as GBA and WS.

peppy wrote:

Accuracy drop can easily be avoided by playing on relax or whatever, who cares about that.

There are a few people that don't like to see their accuracy drop.

peppy wrote:

If you can't figure out a particular rhythm by:
>Watching a replay
>Playing in nofail mode
>Trying many times without nofail

Then you should play a song of easier difficulty until you get used to rhythm.

This I agree with.

I'm not against the locking of test mode for competition songs and story mode songs with all this in hand however. If other ranked songs can be practiced at will via test mode after this occurs then I have no objections to make.

MaxwellDemon wrote:

I think it is kinda ridiculous that you are calling us to be stuck in a "dark age" just because some people prefers the challenge of learning the song from scratch instead of being able to work on sections they are stuck on and so on.

I am not saying a rehearse mode is not good, but personally, I know even if it is there, I probably won't be using it. XD

And of course, to be honest... I don't think your demo proves anything. If you give me a song and I play that song over an hour with a no fail mod. I probably would be able to FC it too.

The point I'm trying to make is this:

1) Player 'A' is stuck on an EXTREMELY difficult section of a 5 minute long beatmap, and the section he is stuck on is the very last 15 seconds of the beatmap. He plays the beatmap with the 'no fail' MOD turned on and plays perfectly right up to the point he is stuck on, but on his first attempt at this section, he ends up failing.

He then plays the beatmap from start to finish, over and over, till he masters that one small section that he's stuck on. It takes him 30 attempts till he finally masters it, then he finally rejoices after wasting 150 minutes of his life.

2) Player 'B' is stuck on the exact same section on the beatmap as player 'A' is. He then goes into the editor and practices that same section 30 times just like player 'A' did. Player 'B' ends up mastering the beatmap too just like player 'A' did, however, it only takes player 'B' seven and a half minutes to master it. Player 'B' rejoices for completing the beatmap and has 142 minutes spare to do other things in life, like mastering other beatmaps for example, or having sex with the Mrs, etc.

If everyone can't see the logic in having a practice feature in Osu, even if it's just the test mode in the editor, then I feel sorry for you all.

Have you tried playing a map over and over at 60 minutes with only no fail before claiming its lack of efficency?

But then, you can't speak for everyone.

I think my MAX 3000! would need a bit more than an hour with or without Test mode lol.

Either way, Test mode will STILL BE AVAILABLE when the lock out occurs. Just not to specific songs.

Test mode should realistically only be used for unmodded play testing. Practicing with mods and whatnot is not really something that is too feasible in peppy's eyes as those mods are optional and are used as a means of getting a song harder which is only used when you are adept at a song ie. you know the rhythm well enough already.

Still somewhat annoys me that I have to save before 'testing' though.

MaxwellDemon wrote:

Have you tried playing a map over and over at 60 minutes with only no fail before claiming its lack of efficency?

But then, you can't speak for everyone.

I have actually. I played 'IOSYS - FOE to no Souguu' over 100 times from start to finish with the 'no fail' MOD turned on, before I finally mastered it.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8432

The stats in the link above don't include the times I practiced the beatmap offline. It's because of the sheer frustration with practicing this beatmap and other beatmaps, I came up with the rehearse mode feature idea. I wasted several hours of my life mastering the last section of that beatmap, when I could have easily used the editor to skip past the parts I could already do, and master it a lot more quickly.

The thing most people are not taking into account is that some people take far more repetition to get good at something that what other people do. For example, some people can practice something just a couple of times and start to get the hang of it straight away. Whilst for others, it would require maybe 50 or even more than 100 attempts to master the exact same thing. But both people, could master it equally well, it would just take the second person a lot more repetition to do so.

This is why I think being able to skip straight to the difficult sections in a beatmap is very important, for some people at least. So they can learn the beatmap a lot more quickly, because they may need 100+ repetitions on that one section till their brain/body finally learns it.

adamskii_uk wrote:

1) Player 'A'..
2) Player 'B'..

3) Player 'C' watches a replay of Saturos playing the beatmap and realises the rhythm, then plays and passes next attempt.
4) Player 'D' uses nofail to pass the map and is penalized slightly by their score, due to their inability to comprehend a rhythm that other players successfully did. Their lower score ressembles their lack of skills.
5) Player 'E' plays an easier version of the beatmap.

If you feel osu! is wasting your life, then maybe you shouldn't play. It is a game after all - if you aren't enjoying it, then go do something productive with your time! Keep in mind that games have a certain degree of frustration, and this usually drives your urge to play again and again until you beat it.

The only thing I could possibly see coming from this is the option to play a ranked song for ranking or for practice. Currently this (as it's been mentioned a large number of times) can be through test mode. But, honestly, I'm paranoid of losing too much accuracy on one beatmap that I may trip up on, and have been straying away from playing them, as well as playing easier maps with Hidden and other similar mods. Having an option to play without effecting your ranked score would be nice, but I'm probably one of the few who actually cares about their accuracy. And atleast this way, you can practice with some mods on.

Then again, this could be done by simply logging out.

You`re not alone. I care about my accuracy too. I dunno, but I think this mod will be useful somehow.

Reading saturos's post makes me with I limited osu! to online only mode, with no way to play maps without affecting accuracy. Because that was my intention for the stat -.-

Figured that'd be your response.

I honestly don't know why I worry about it so much, as it can be bullshitted by playing easy stuff repeatedly, so it doesn't really matter as a stat. It just bothers me when it falls. :<

That's why you should have a crappy-ish accuracy, like me. When I play a map, even for the first time, it almost always goes up.

peppy wrote:

I'm against the actual concept of test mode. I suggest you make your first post a poll so we can get a better view of what people think.

I tried to answer your individual points but don't see a need to. Eventually with story mode, editor will be locked for songs, so you won't be able to use test mode either. I think one of the interesting aspects of a rhythm game is to progressively learn a song.

I'm aware this is a bit of a necro, but I just wanted to voice my opinion here -- While having no practice mode is viable and interesting for "fair" songs, like in EBA/Ouendan, you have to admit a lot of higher difficulty songs here use dirty tricks to trip up players or are just generally ridiculous. While I'm sure a few people have done it, I honestly can't imagine having beaten Agony on Insane without practicing the individual patterns in edit mode first -- the song moves so fast and fails you so quickly that trial and error would likely mean hours upon hours of restarting just to figure out what the patterns were supposed to be. Discovery is fun -- frustration because you can't figure out a song isn't.

I've got the general impression you want Osu to be newbie friendly. Taking out methods of practice isn't the way to do that. There's a large disparity between difficulties right now and without the ability to go to a specific part of a song that's giving them trouble and figure it out, many newer players may simply give up. There's no linear skill progression where each song leads into the next and teaches you new skills like in Ouendan, so new players may be completely flattened by things they don't expect and then have no idea how to solve it. Letting them play the sections in slow-mo or "read" them first will help them learn -- and therefore, help them get better. Do we really want the game to be less newbie friendly?

Edit: Check my next post (two posts down) before replying to this one.

I don't get it

there's Half-speed, Relax, and Easy mods to help you with learning the way a map works. In fact, to test-drive my theory I'mma give MAX FOREVER a spin, brb

k back

Easy mode mighta been a bad idea; it got really cluttered with those big notes

300 / 100 / 50 / X
637 / 40 / 20 / 46

that was with a few impossible spinners, too

Accuracy 87.98%, first time actually playing that map (sorry Rolled ;________;) so 88% with handicap mods on the most (one of the most?) difficult osu map available. I picked up on a number of tricks (and found out why I kept failing the first Hatredcopter, I think)

also YAY ETNA SLIDERS but Etna Sliders were marked as Shotgun Symphony (round 2) when they originated from LOVERIN TAMBURIN - Aishitageru what injustice have you done to beauty queen Etna =(

anyhow my point is, the mods in place should greatly help the inexperienced learn a beatmap if they can help a veteran SIGHTREAD the hardest map available

Edit: aaand that's what I get for not reading the whole topic. Someone said yesterday in chat that "peppy's taking out test mode permanently" and I didn't bother reading past the first page on this topic as a result. Sigh. Now that I know it's only certain songs which'll be locked, I'm temporarily withdrawing my argument and I'll reserve further opinions until I get a clearer idea of what'll be restricted.

Yeah, the problem is, some people have a tendency to miscommunicate things.

And then not even think about trying to read and comprehend what it is they're miscommunicating. I mean, what the hell, taking out test mode from the editor? Us mods are inactive enough as it is, so why further cripple our productivity.

That's just plain silly.

Also don't forget the no-fail mod. I think that's like the ultimate way to "legitly" testrun a map. Say goodbye to your accuracy though :D

im all for this !!!

xerxes_oli wrote:

im all for this !!!

I don't think we'll ever get a rehearse/practice MOD in Osu! since peppy mentioned earlier in this thread that he is against the concept of it. Also, some other long term members are against a rehearse MOD feature too since they say it isn't needed, since we already have test mode that's in the editor.

peppy wrote:

I'm against the actual concept of test mode. I suggest you make your first post a poll so we can get a better view of what people think.

I turned this thread into a poll like peppy suggested on Apr 29, and more than two thirds of users want the rehearse feature in Osu. I doubt this poll result will make much difference though, so xerxes I suggest you practice the beatmaps offline in the editor using test mode since it's similar to using a rehearse MOD. However, test mode in it's current state does have some limitations with it, such as no access to current or future MOD's, or the ability to adjust the song speed. Test mode does have some advantages though, such as being able to adjust the hit circle size and timing circle speed to make learning a beatmap easier, or to make it more difficult like adding the hard rock MOD. You can also skip to any part on a beatmap and play it from that point in time, rather than having to play the first 3 minutes of a beatmap over and over to practice the very end section of the beatmap.

IMO, the only thing that test mode really needs is the ability to change the song speed, so to help with the learning of very fast and difficult sections of a beatmap. We can already adjust the song speed in the editor, but this speed setting is lost in test mode and will always play the beatmap back at full speed regardless of what we choose. Also, having access to the hidden MOD in test mode would be nice too, but it's not really essential since we have to already know the rhythm of a beatmap to use it anyway.

adamskii_uk wrote:

xerxes_oli wrote:

im all for this !!!

I don't think we'll ever get a rehearse/practice MOD in Osu! since peppy mentioned earlier in this thread that he is against the concept of it. Also, some other long term members are against a rehearse MOD feature too since they say it isn't needed, since we already have test mode that's in the editor.

peppy wrote:

I'm against the actual concept of test mode. I suggest you make your first post a poll so we can get a better view of what people think.

I turned this thread into a poll like peppy suggested on Apr 29, and more than two thirds of users want the rehearse feature in Osu. I doubt this poll result will make much difference though, so xerxes I suggest you practice the beatmaps offline in the editor using test mode since it's similar to using a rehearse MOD. However, test mode in it's current state does have some limitations with it, such as no access to current or future MOD's, or the ability to adjust the song speed. Test mode does have some advantages though, such as being able to adjust the hit circle size and timing circle speed to make learning a beatmap easier, or to make it more difficult like adding the hard rock MOD. You can also skip to any part on a beatmap and play it from that point in time, rather than having to play the first 3 minutes of a beatmap over and over to practice the very end section of the beatmap.

IMO, the only thing that test mode really needs is the ability to change the song speed, so to help with the learning of very fast and difficult sections of a beatmap. We can already adjust the song speed in the editor, but this speed setting is lost in test mode and will always play the beatmap back at full speed regardless of what we choose. Also, having access to the hidden MOD in test mode would be nice too, but it's not really essential since we have to already know the rhythm of a beatmap to use it anyway.

oh ok lol