Maybe, which one gets implemented faster?

NCDyson wrote:

One of these years she's going in for major facial surgery. lol

She might wanna stop at the local fast food restaurant on the way, that waist is dangerously small. (btw: eyes are green lol)

yeah, the colored image I was using for reference had red eyes, and I feel they seem to work a little better with the outfit. My model was really just for something to practice on, I've actually found myself with little free time as of late.

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Both these models have their advantages, but neither one really gets the face right yet.

Though maybe if you're both up for it, Loginer and Dyson could work together on perfecting Pippi? Nothing against either of you if you're against it, but I think a 3D design team could be pretty awesome.

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GO LOGINER!

Here's my progress so far. The face currently feels like a strange mix between anime and realism, but I'm working on that. The important bit is that the face is no longer flat.

Could make a nice alien, that's for sure.

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Also, check this out: http://www.posemaniacs.com/tools/handviewer/

The third model (020 CT SCAN HEAD(beta)), is a 3D model of an adult male head.

Obviously, Pippi is neither male nor an adult, though, you may be able to find something of use from the model.

Just tell me what I need to fix/improve, aside from the mouth and chin. The face was modeled using anatomically correct references, so telling me to look at realistic heads and stuff isn't helping.

Here's the same mesh with hair and stuff.



Edit: Wait, I just noticed something big. Fixing... Fixed the depth.

2nd picture looks more male then the first IMO

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It's looking great though, man. Keep up the good work!

Yeah, though it does look a little on the male side, it's definitely looking more human.

I agree, maybe chubbier cheeks or wider smile?

I'm not very fond of the eyes. The big white parts just look out of place to me :/

Also the lips :X

The first one is looking great. But the second rendering makes me think that not all angles would turn out so well. The nose bridge seems too prominent or too thin or something.

Though if it renders well in cel-shading at all angles the way it is now, I'd like to see more angles.

Felt like posting a screenshot this time. I've moved and scaled the eyes, shortened the chin and made the lips look more female-ish. I also made some changes to the bridge after taking the screenshot.

distance from nose to lips to chin seems short to me, idk if the chin is too short or if everything is just half an inch too low, or what (on second thought, I'm probably wrong, here)

lips do look good though

nose is sharp enough to cut cheese on, I'm presuming that's still a WIP

Much better

Right, I should probably do some work on this today. Here's what the new head looks like with the old hair:

Looks pretty weird, but I can't point out why. Any suggestions on things to fix (don't worry about the nose, it's already on the top of my list)?

The hair seems a little too pointed at the end.

She kinda looks older than she should be maybe?
I'm not sure I just get that feeling.

Loginer wrote:

Looks pretty weird, but I can't point out why.

Only thing I can think of is that it's not really one "head of hair", it's several little pieces. The hair is all bumpy and divided into sections/individual bangs, all of which stem from the top of the head. I'd like to see a closer render of this model's hair to see how it's divided up. Maybe NCDyson could offer some help or helpful tips on how to do hair.

How's this?

The black pieces look excellent, but the pink ones still look really thick and clay-like :<

Would it be better if you layered flat pieces of hair instead of a 3D "tube"?

Derekku Chan wrote:

The black pieces look excellent, but the pink ones still look really thick and clay-like :<

I disagree with that.
I do think that the nose is somewhat male-like...

Daru wrote:

Would it be better if you layered flat pieces of hair instead of a 3D "tube"?

I think planar bangs would look strange, but I'll give it a try anyway.

Remco32 wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

The black pieces look excellent, but the pink ones still look really thick and clay-like :<

I disagree with that.
I do think that the nose is somewhat male-like...

I'll see what I can do about that.

@Nose: Maybe it's the bridge of it that looks kinda weird? Not sure...

@Bangs: To elaborate, they don't look "bad", but they could be improved.

Replaced the bangs with a more or less flat version.

can you thin the texture so it looks less like plastic wood-grain?

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Ahh... MUCH better Great job as usual~

yeah, it is looking better imo

Can you fill the eyes up?

Remco32 wrote:

Can you fill the eyes up?

I don't think we should do that yet...

I think the nose looks a bit too "pinched"; try making it a bit wider.

nitpicknitpicknitpick

I've done some changes to the hair and textured the face. Pics:

Daru wrote:

I think the nose looks a bit too "pinched"; try making it a bit wider.

nitpicknitpicknitpick

The nose isn't actually pinched, it just looks like it because the shading is gay.



I'll figure it out eventually.

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The second picture with a darker shadow would look nice?

if you're trying to figure something out I'd recommend adding the base of the nose and nostrils

It's really starting to come along, but at this point my concern is her age. She looks much older than 15 based on that mugshot. I think the easiest way to address that is to puff/round her cheeks out a bit, though I'm not an expert in this field by any means

Not sure if this helps but here are the Ouendan series female headshots:

It seems that older Sayaka has a pointier chin and a larger face in general than her younger counterpart...

How's this?

Better, much better.
Only thing I can think of that could be inproved is the nose, which I find kind of weird for some reason..

The lips are ugly imho. Might be because of the shading, might be because there's no texture for them yet. Or might be that you just fail j/k I love you.

Pippi looks like she's going to eat me >.<

Remco32 wrote:

Better, much better.
Only thing I can think of that could be inproved is the nose, which I find kind of weird for some reason..

Still working on it. :/

Larto wrote:

The lips are ugly imho. Might be because of the shading, might be because there's no texture for them yet. Or might be that you just fail j/k I love you.

I think it's because they're too wide.

Lips are better now; The nose is so tiny o.o;

So awesome~

Yup. Better. Lips look better, overall age of the face has dropped to an acceptable range. After the nose, the head in general might be done-done.

I'll see what I can do. Meanwhile, here's a render of the new boot.

Woah, the lips made a huge difference.
I still think the nose looks off (it doesn't flare out at all), but it looks awesome, even as is.

Is the head too wide?

No one's been too specific about what's wrong with the nose, so I've simply rounded it out a bit and made it slightly less pinched. I've also added teeth.

Echo wrote:

Is the head too wide?

I don't think so, but judge for yourself.

Could you do a sideview shot? it'll give a better view of the nose.

Head is as good as perfect IMO
Also:

Last edited by BanchoBot on Yesterday, 13:42, edited 715 times in total.

let's see it in cel shading one more time

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it's perfect. Don't touch it again

Wonderful!

I think Pippi's ready for some animations now!

sweet! i hope we see her ingame soon™

on a side note, anyone know if it's planned for the format to be open enough for people to make their own dancers?

NCDyson wrote:

sweet! i hope we see her ingame soon™

on a side note, anyone know if it's planned for the format to be open enough for people to make their own dancers?

Which is why I had suggested using a universal bone structure for most custom models to follow, something like this:
Bone_Hip
Bone_L_Thigh (Femur)
Bone_L_Leg (Shin)
Bone_L_Foot
Bone_R_Thigh (Femur)
Bone_R_Leg (Shin)
Bone_R_Foot
Bone_Spine_1 (Backbone)
Bone_Spine_2 (Backbone)
Bone_Head
Bone_Hair
Bone_L_Collarbone
Bone_L_Arm_a
Bone_L_Arm_b
Bone_L_Hand
Bone_L_Finger
Pompon_L
Bone_R_Collarbone
Bone_R_Arm_a
Bone_R_Arm_b
Bone_R_Hand
Bone_R_Finger
Pompon_R
Face

Brilliant work.

NCDyson wrote:

sweet! i hope we see her ingame soon™

on a side note, anyone know if it's planned for the format to be open enough for people to make their own dancers?

We'll be using .x, AFAIK.

soradg123 wrote:

Which is why I had suggested using a universal bone structure for most custom models to follow, something like this:
*bones*

Adding support for other dancers should be trivial once Pippi is up and running in-game. A "universal bone structure" won't be necessary.

Also, I'm currently working on modeling a new body and clothes. I think I'll have something ready by Friday, so expect a new pic on Sunday when I'm actually done.

Loginer wrote:

No one's been too specific about what's wrong with the nose

awp wrote:

if you're trying to figure something out I'd recommend adding the base of the nose and nostrils

noses don't end in a point =| the bottom of the nose is the widest part; visibly wider than the bridge

in fact, it's kind of /\ shaped in general, vs || shaped

it is super hard to make a nice looking and FITTING nose for a character like pippi. it would be nice if anyone could paste in an example of a 3D characters nose because a nose like this



would not fit her

The current nose isn't realistic but it looks perfect in cel-shading so it is fine

At certain angles, yes. At others, it's a bit jarring. One minute flaw can completely throw off an otherwise gorgeous work of art.

iNiS's models do the same thing (their noses have bases, as oppose to being straight lines).

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Now that's much better!Good work,Loginer~
(*coughfullbodypiccerplz?cough*)

Random thought:
Is it possible to convert that model into a Miku Miku Dance model?

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I'm not as familiar with the .x file format, however I do believe there could be some problems with a "universal" system.

for instance, if a rotational value is off in the base pose, the arm might bend the wrong way. Easy fix, but still can be annoying.

Or, If a dancer requires more bones than the animation set has, for instance, if you want a ponytail or an accessory to move with the dancer, you'd have to have it use the animation set in the dancer's model file for those bones. Then you get into the issue of telling Osu! which bones to do that for, and then you have to animate those bones with the dance animations. But wait, then you'd have another problem. to animate those bones decently, you'd need to have the animations on hand so that you can do it.

If you try to solve that problem with things like a "dynamic movement" or whatever system, you get the problem of needing to set limits so that they can't go the wrong way, and/or do some collision checking to make sure that those items don't go where they're not supposed to.

If you don't allow for more than the standard bones, then you'll get characters with long hair/other things that doesn't animate nicely, and then it just looks cheap.

Besides that, I'd say that if all the dancers did the exact same dance, then it would be kinda boring because you wouldn't get to see a different take on the style/dance. Yeah, it means a lot more work in the long run for the people who have to make the dancers, but I'm pretty sure peppy has a lot better things to do than try to find a way to make a universal system that allows for as much flexibility as people would want.

I would just be happy with a set of 3dsmax files that had a biped doing the dances and stuff, and then I could just work off of those to get an idea of the style and timing, and also variate it according to the character.

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The arms are too thick in the center part. Also, I would've said they seem slightly too long, but I guess not if you say so. The legs and body seem fine to me.

Also, is it possible to ask for slightly larger breasts without being called a pervert?
(My girlfriend started laughing when I wrote this and told me that she agrees, after calling me "her cute little pervert". )

Improved the neck, rounded the elbows out, fixed the leaning, lowered the arms by 40 degrees and made the breasts slightly larger.

Gemi wrote:

The arms are too thick in the center part.

Not really, although the area between the elbow and the upper arm might be a little thick.

The ass is too flat and might be an inch or two too high (not sure on this, though)

Made some bigger changes to the breasts this time, improved the shoulders/neck, increased the length of the fingers and made the butt less flat.



   

Are the kneecaps too low? They look that way to me. Maybe it's the hips/waist...No, hang on, pretty sure the knees are too low. Bend the leg back as far as it can go, and the heel should touch the ass.

Shape of the arms is looking nicer, but the hips/waist are/is definitely too high up.

/steal Al's concept art for example:

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Ta-da.

The cel-shading looks weird as all hell on the bellybutton and the skin could do with a bit of touching up, but otherwise - a damn fine job, Loginer. A damn fine job indeed. The tip of the skull has too small a polycount by the looks of things - you can see a clear edge at the utmost top.

Love

Nice

Awesome~

Beautiful! So when do we see her in-game?

*w*

Sweet! x3

Ephemeral wrote:

The cel-shading looks weird as all hell on the bellybutton and the skin could do with a bit of touching up, but otherwise - a damn fine job, Loginer. A damn fine job indeed. The tip of the skull has too small a polycount by the looks of things - you can see a clear edge at the utmost top.

Added a few edges. As for the very top, it's supposed to have a sharp angle. Not sure what you mean by touching up the skin, but don't worry about the belly button.

soradg123 wrote:

Beautiful! So when do we see her in-game?

As soon as I've rigged and animated her, which I'll get on with once I'm sure the model is good enough. I don't want to spend 2 hours tweaking the limbs and then come back here to find someone ranting about the shape of her thumb.

Loginer wrote:

Added a few edges. As for the very top, it's supposed to have a sharp angle. Not sure what you mean by touching up the skin, but don't worry about the belly button.

I'm thinking more along the lines of adding more detail since the skin is quite plain - if nothing else, you could posterize the clothing section of the skin to enhance the cartoony feel the cel-shaders give it. Is it possible for you to give us a pose of the model in various lighting scenarios? I have a feeling it may be just the lack of such a scenario which is invoking the ire of my OCD regarding the skin.

Loginer wrote:

As soon as I've rigged and animated her

Oh boy that will be a quick and pleasant adventure now won't it?

Glad to see the model turned out so well (eventually). I'm just expecting the animation to take another long while to feel "just right" though.

very nice work. this will be awesome when its done :9

Just found a tool that pretty much automates the skinning process. A crack was made a few hours ago, so things will happen ITT as soon as I get my hands on it.

Loginer wrote:

Just found a tool that pretty much automates the skinning process. A crack was made a few hours ago, so things will happen ITT as soon as I get my hands on it.

By skinning, do you mean the UV mapping process or the skinning of the mesh to the bones?
If you're talking about UVs, the tool that you're talking about wouldn't happen to be Unwrella would it? that tool is a god send.

Lovely.

NCDyson wrote:

Loginer wrote:

Just found a tool that pretty much automates the skinning process. A crack was made a few hours ago, so things will happen ITT as soon as I get my hands on it.

By skinning, do you mean the UV mapping process or the skinning of the mesh to the bones?
If you're talking about UVs, the tool that you're talking about wouldn't happen to be Unwrella would it? that tool is a god send.

Nope, I'm talking about BonesPro. It turned out to crash Max every time it autosaved though, so in the end I was forced to use Skin. Oh well.



So, dance moves. Any ideas?