GoldenWolf wrote:

300bpm streams seems impossible to me now, does it mean it will be the standard in 2 years ? C'mon aqo.

Jordan wrote:

There is a skill cap, if there wouldn't be a skill cap then people could theoretically train to react faster than 10ms, and move their fingers fast enough to be able to play 1000bpm 1/4 streams flawlessly, but that's absurd, because you have PHYSICAL and MENTAL limitations, those limitations are not even for all of us.

Aqo wrote:

No matter what you say, people haven't come close to limits yet.
Things that look impossible to you now will become standard once players who play seriously will play more and improve more.
Trying to blame your inability to do stuff on nature is basically looking for excuses to not having nurtured enough.

Aqo wrote:

300bpm streams don't even seem impossible to me right now D:

The hard limits right now (based on player performance) are:
250bpm stream
240bpm jump

The light limits (based on player inconsistent performance):
300bpm stream
275bpm jump

ziin wrote:

1760 (440bpm 1/4ths) keyboard strokes per minute using only 2 keys on a keyboard is not far fetched according to other rhythm games.

ziin wrote:

1760 (440bpm 1/4ths) keyboard strokes per minute using only 2 keys on a keyboard is not far fetched according to other rhythm games.

Aqo wrote:

If the world record is streaming 480bpm then we're still far off from being anywhere near the limit yo.
Come on guys step it up. Practice harder.
Do you even lift.

MillhioreF wrote:

Well, that's not streaming 480bpm, that's singletapping 240 bpm. I can singletap 110 bpm for ages but can't stream 220 bpm for very long at all, so there's some difference.

buny wrote:

You can't just double single tap speed and call it stream speed


Otherwise I'd be dt'ing chipscape

druidxd wrote:

I know, It was just a calculation done theoretically, there are other factors involved in osu!, pratically I would say that a stream "skill cap" would be around achieve 300-350bpm 1/4ths, talking about pro's.

Aqo wrote:

druidxd wrote:

I know, It was just a calculation done theoretically, there are other factors involved in osu!, pratically I would say that a stream "skill cap" would be around achieve 300-350bpm 1/4ths, talking about pro's.

You're just making up numbers and, had somebody made up those numbers with the same mindset you're using right now, 3 years ago, they'd come up with lower numbers.

Point is: nature doesn't limit you in any practical way. Maybe some cap exists somewhere but nobody can claim to be restricted by nature because so far there is not a single player anywhere close to a cap.

buny wrote:

Nobody streamed fast in the older days because no map required a fast stream speed



People learn to stream faster because of the faster tempo songs that are made in this day of age. That doesn't mean that it is a linear improvement.

thelewa wrote:

About the conversation you people had in the previous pages, I think it's pretty clear that streaming 300bpm with a keyboard is pretty much impossible for long periods of time.

I mean seriously

thelewa wrote:

I have to change my views on this matter a bit.

Lifting does indeed help.

Mithost wrote:

I can say that if there is a limit, we are not even close to it. Some people generally develop faster in these games than others, but I don't believe people who are determined and willed enough to improve to the current "top-level" can hit a point where there is nothing left they can do to improve. This is especially true when the "top level" bar gets higher and higher and people get better and better spite already being at the top. Sure it's not easy to become top level, but it's never impossible.

druidxd wrote:

Theoretically, you could keep improving for ever, but you will never be able to surpass that skill cap, so it's like let's say, your skill cap is 3. at first you improve a lot, like you start with 0, then you improve 1.5, then 0.9, then 0.4, then 0.01, then 0.0001, you start improving less, because what you improve at first is the basics, how to jump, how to stream, then you improve large aspects of that, faster and more precise jumping, faster streaming, then you keep on improving on details, and then it's just polishing details, so improvement is less everytime, and you will never reach 3.

That's my thought about this.

GoldenWolf wrote:

but over the time, even if you still doing progress, it become smaller and smaller.

Maneuver wrote:

What ? I can jump to the moon if i train 100,000 years ? Oh wait, maybe i will live until 100 years old, or my bone break first. << Isn't this the limit ?. Sure you will learn something new, don't forget you will forget something. The skills you learned over time will also slowly be 'deleted' from your brain. So, if you improve slower den the deletion, it is limit right ?

ziin wrote:

Pretty sure this is possible at 1.1x

druidxd wrote:

I've measured approximately how much time does it take for him to press 100 times a single key by that method, he started at 0:46, and ended at 0:53, that's 7 seconds, so:

In 7 seconds he pressed 100 times a single key
In 1 second he pressed X times a single key.

1x100 = 100
100/7 = X = 14,285 approx, we can say it's between 14 and 14,5 but not much more than that, just because youtube time system doesn't show miliseconds.

And he's doing that "shivering" method that I described earlier.

So he basically can do:

14,285 x 60 = 857
857 / 4 = 214,275 bpm 1/4ths stream by singletapping.

It's really fun to calculate all this

Soly wrote:

druidxd wrote:

I've measured approximately how much time does it take for him to press 100 times a single key by that method, he started at 0:46, and ended at 0:53, that's 7 seconds, so:

In 7 seconds he pressed 100 times a single key
In 1 second he pressed X times a single key.

1x100 = 100
100/7 = X = 14,285 approx, we can say it's between 14 and 14,5 but not much more than that, just because youtube time system doesn't show miliseconds.

And he's doing that "shivering" method that I described earlier.

So he basically can do:

14,285 x 60 = 857
857 / 4 = 214,275 bpm 1/4ths stream by singletapping.

It's really fun to calculate all this

JayO wrote:

Question was about one's ability to play osu not be a god at osu... Anyone can do anything with practice even if limits are different. Nurture hands down.

LaVolpe024 wrote:

This thread idea came to me because of thelewa and the Aqo kid having a squabble.

Many people genuinely believe that the ability to play osu! at a high level is a gift, not something that can be developed. They feel inclined to accept the idea that being a skilled player has more to do with genetics and raw talent than anything else. With this belief comes the notion that every player has a physical limit to their skill and capacity to play the game.

On the other hand there are players who believe that the skill can be developed through adequate practice and that it is not necessarily something you are born with. With this belief comes the notion that every player has a seemingly limitless capacity to play the game.

Nature or nurture? Discuss.

druidxd wrote:

excluding of course, most of us, average players.

Aqo wrote:

No matter what you say, people haven't come close to limits yet.
Things that look impossible to you now will become standard once players who play seriously will play more and improve more.
Trying to blame your inability to do stuff on nature is basically looking for excuses to not having nurtured enough.

druidxd wrote:

JayO wrote:

Question was about one's ability to play osu not be a god at osu... Anyone can do anything with practice even if limits are different. Nurture hands down.

No, it was to play osu! at high level

LaVolpe024 wrote:

This thread idea came to me because of thelewa and the Aqo kid having a squabble.

Many people genuinely believe that the ability to play osu! at a high level is a gift, not something that can be developed. They feel inclined to accept the idea that being a skilled player has more to do with genetics and raw talent than anything else. With this belief comes the notion that every player has a physical limit to their skill and capacity to play the game.

On the other hand there are players who believe that the skill can be developed through adequate practice and that it is not necessarily something you are born with. With this belief comes the notion that every player has a seemingly limitless capacity to play the game.

Nature or nurture? Discuss.

druidxd wrote:

Another example of nature over nurture is Usain Bolt, now that I think about it, his body is perfect for running, and because of that he gets a nature advantage over others in for example, the olympic games, and his advanteges didn't make a great difference until he had developed his skill high enough, reaching his physical limit, or skill cap.

Maneuver wrote:

druidxd wrote:

Another example of nature over nurture is Usain Bolt, now that I think about it, his body is perfect for running, and because of that he gets a nature advantage over others in for example, the olympic games, and his advanteges didn't make a great difference until he had developed his skill high enough, reaching his physical limit, or skill cap.

I remember watching national geographic (if not wrong on tv) about athlete and doing research on Usain Bolt (on genetic). The other world pro runner said: We can't seem to improve anymore on our speed. But man, look at Usain Bolt, he runs much faster than us and there is still much more room for improvement. (Something Close to this). The other runner also train like hell everyday but not even close to Usain. Nature wins.

That series also says, the genetic of athlete is becoming pro-er and pro-er over the decade. There is more and more equipment helping to train athlete but genetic is still the one calling the shot who will be better or not.

LaVolpe024 wrote:

No sitting on the fence. If you feel both then decide which one is a greater factor in determining skill.

LaVolpe024 wrote:

No sitting on the fence. If you feel both then decide which one is a greater factor in determining skill.

LaVolpe024 wrote:

Then which one would you say has a greater influence over the other?

Maneuver wrote:

LaVolpe024 wrote:

Then which one would you say has a greater influence over the other?

Haha, greater influence is still nurture, because it is something we can control =S

she wrote:

Unless you need little nurture to reach your nature's limit.

enik wrote:

"Nature" vote is exactly both. No one says you can achieve anything without practice even if you were born Cookiezi. "Nurture" vote implies there's no talent/genetic factor at all.