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[Archived] Deadly drain on long spinners using HardRock on few maps

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Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Saten
I tried to look for something similar but couldn't find anything.


There are a few ranked maps that are like this, but I can only remember one right now
Humanoid - MENDES

Turn on Auto & HardRock and see for yourself (final spinner)
SPOILER


Sometimes Auto dies, and sometimes not. But that doesn't change the fact that the HP reaches 0 even when spinning at 477rpm/spm
Another reason why I want this fixed is because I myself have a map with this issue.
I don't really wanna lower the HP more than I already did (I'm currently using HP5 & OD7 and fails with HardRock)
bigbadbillyH
bigbadbillyH
This problem has been brought up before, although to be fair things are hard to find with the search function, maybe it needs an upgrade.

This is definitely a big issue, though, as the only solution for things like this is to not use hard rock, which isn't really a proper solution at all.

I don't agree with the people who will undoubtedly say "This should be picked up in the mapping process", though, since the process isn't perfect.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
You can't even use mods in the modding process, so that's an invalid argument.
bigbadbillyH
bigbadbillyH

TheVileOne wrote:

You can't even use mods in the modding process, so that's an invalid argument.
I had no idea, that's something that needs to be changed, then.
Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Saten
This shouldn't be brought up in the mapping/modding process.
It shouldn't be possible to die at all. I mean, spinning 477spm constantly should not kill you.
Last edited by Saten , edited 1 time in total.
bugeyedbillyh
bugeyedbillyh
I agree with bigbadbillyh.

But seriously, this is an issue that just seems to be ignored by peppy. Keep raising awareness.
Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Saten
Reason why I didn't find any related topics was because there was no in Technical Support.

Found this in Feature Requests
Allow beatmaper to change hp drain in certain sections

I'd rather get it fixed overall than changing it manually with some mod.
bugeyedbillyh
bugeyedbillyh

Saten wrote:

Reason why I didn't find any related topics was because there was no in Technical Support.

Found this in Feature Requests
Allow beatmaper to change hp drain in certain sections

I'd rather get it fixed overall than changing it manually with some mod.
If mappers could change the HP drain depending on the section, no new map would have this problem, as it'd be picked up in the modding process. I had the same idea myself, with a little more detail, under the name DADDYCOOLVIPPER.

It's a hard thing to fix for old maps because it involves changing HP drain for everything, making every single map easier, so I don't think you'll have any luck there. The feature request is important, though, since it'd prevent the same thing from happening to future maps.
Mercurial
Mercurial
This was discussed before, and marked as Invalid.

It is responsability of the mappers add or not HP Drain to their maps.

If you don't like it, then map the same song with less HP drain (No offense)
bugeyedbillyh
bugeyedbillyh

Mercurial wrote:

This was discussed before, and marked as Invalid.

It is responsability of the mappers add or not HP Drain to their maps.

If you don't like it, then map the same song with less HP drain (No offense)
So instead of adding a simple tool that lets mappers be more creative, you'd prefer people to re-map a song, exactly as it was, but with 1 point lower of HP drain... and then do this for every single song this problem applies to?
Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Saten
The problem is that mappers won't be able to change that once it gets ranked (already ranked/approved maps)
And this occurs only when using HR


Long spinners should equal to shorter spinners drain-rate wise. There should be a limit in drain on (long) spinners.
Not sure if it's as simple as that

Mercurial wrote:

This was discussed before, and marked as Invalid.

It is responsability of the mappers add or not HP Drain to their maps.

If you don't like it, then map the same song with less HP drain (No offense)
I'd rather not use HP4 which makes it ridiculously easy.


From t/88572

Shiro wrote:

Changing HP drain is as stupid as changing AR or OD on section. This is a spinner-related issue. I already talked to mm201 about killing spinners and provided several maps as examples - with HR.

His solution was to calculate the HP given so that SpunOut's spinning (ie 286 rpm or around that) makes the HP stay constant through the spinner, so that anyone who spins faster than this actually gains HP.

I don't know if this is going to be implemented or not though.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
Everything must be physically possible in all mods. Your argument is invalid.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
I don't get why people don't all support this? Spinner drain is a real issue in osu that needs to be addressed. Frankly, it just makes no sense the way it works right now. Being able to die despite playing the map perfectly is a design mistake. Spinners should have a limit, regardless of HP, even on HP10, to either not drain HP below a certain point or to not drain at all if you spin above a certain reasonable RPM such as 390.
s ranker disc
123 posts
Joined September 2012
s ranker disc
ive had this on my previous account too sometimes rarely u get a problem with ur maps on a certain day where all of them u played on that day become corrupt and u cant play cant u just fix it ? 8-) :oops:
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
it's something that should be caught in the modding process.
Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Saten
HardRock is the only mod that affects your Drain/Recovery negatively.

And even if you caught it in the modding process, what are you going to do? "Lower the drain to 3-4" ?

This mainly occurs on stream maps that have a long spinner somewhere.

I know the HP calculation is a bit complicated though
But this is still an issue, even if it is low priority.
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
Half Time also makes spinners harder to overspin.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
This issue is probably very low- dead bottom in priority BTW. It probably wont be fixed....well until it actually becomes problematic. Long spinners are discouraged and people rarely ever use them. Plus this bug relies on a less than break length gap before the spinner that surely would be picked up in the modding process if the MATs were attentive. High drain + a gap = issue.
Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Topic Starter
Saten
I reduced the spinner to 5 sec and it still drained my HP drastically. It didn't kill auto, but drained about 75%. So if you can't spin fast enough (e.g. lower than 320spm), then you're basically screwed. Anything longer than 7-8 sec kills anyone including auto.
The spinner was 12 sec to begin with.

Yes, it might be due to my mapping style and chosen song (Well, this also occurs on my guest mapper's difficulty, so it's all about the speed)
I don't really want to change things if possible.
It's a part of the map, just like DystopiaGround - AugoEidEs. There are 2 spinners right after each-other (first is 15 sec, second is 21 sec)

Don't overlook this please.
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