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A quick concern about the new toggles

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Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
I think so. In most cases this game is at LEAST 16+ age wise. I understand playing the map the way it was made, but even pretty innocent songs have Echii backgrounds (pretty much any nightcore song, anime opening, hatsune miku song, touhou, etc). Seeing this game has no disclaimer or minimum age recommendation, you would think these backgrounds would be removed or at least taken off the front page, before the player even knows exactly what the game is. My little brother has an account and I've pretty much edited half the backgrounds I have on his computer just because he wants to play the same songs I do, and we play online.

How about an option to download a "G rated" background instead of the normal one? I already use the "without video" download if I think there will be anything mature in them.
Sonez_old
Sonez_old
Yea I thought about this as well. I live in a house with 4 children, alot of the times I delete echii bgs when they are around. Don't get me wrong I love echii stuff as much as any other otaku, but I keep it to myself.

Just have to be more selective with what you play I guess. Doesn't seem like anythings gonna change.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,963 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
most likely, yes.

however, you can simply play the maps briefly for him beforehand and disable the skins before allowing him to play.

alternatively, maps should not have backgrounds that are overtly questionable (or ecchi), so hit any of the staff up if you find a map with a background that you may find objectionable for whatever reason. it is difficult to have this control delegated to someone else and I can understand that, but problematic maps should not be entering the rankings to begin with.

i sincerely doubt the developers will make a hard toggle for a feature request they have already expressed considerable disdain in adding in the first place, however.
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
theMikeAG

Ephemeral wrote:

most likely, yes.

however, you can simply play the maps briefly for him beforehand and disable the skins before allowing him to play.
The skin toggle doesn't affect the background in anyway and there is no way I'm going to suggest that peppy add a background toggle. He would come to my house with a baseball bat! :o

alternatively, maps should not have backgrounds that are overtly questionable (or ecchi), so hit any of the staff up if you find a map with a background that you may find objectionable for whatever reason. it is difficult to have this control delegated to someone else and I can understand that, but problematic maps should not be entering the rankings to begin with.
My main problem here is that people simply have different standards. For instance, I personally avoid any material (Osu! or otherwise) that depicts massive breasts, even if nothing is exposed. However some people don't see any problem with that, so... I'm so out of luck if I can't take things into my own hands. :(
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,963 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
a valid point, if you can't remove the background, you can at least reduce it to 10% visibility, i believe.

little solace, but there's nothing else that can really be done, i am afraid.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc

Ephemeral wrote:

a valid point, if you can't remove the background, you can at least reduce it to 10% visibility, i believe.

little solace, but there's nothing else that can really be done, i am afraid.
question: does the background just have to have the same name, or is it actually checking the file size?
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,963 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
it'll likely be a checksum of all map elements, changing a single thing of any map-related element will change the checksum and invalidate the map

i am no developer though, don't take my word for it. that's just what i would do.
winber1
4,519 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
Allowing to edit backgrounds allows you to just make it black, which completely destroys the purpose of what peppy has been doing.

Also, people generally don't really add super echii backgrounds nowadays. To be honest, I don't feel like it would be a huge problem if you pay a little attention. If you really need to play a map with such a background, well I guess you are going to have to figure something out yourself like Ephemeral kinda said. (Unless peppy decides to do something, which I don't think he will lol)
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,963 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
like I said earlier, if there are some really questionable maps that somehow slip through the hundred-something members of staff that now handle beatmap submission and ranking, hit one of us up with the details and we'll see what we can do about having the background changed.

osu! is supposed to be all-ages and that is as much a part of the criteria as the more technical things
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
The problem is that some of the staff members don't necessarily understand that osu! is supposed to be an all-ages game. At least that's what it feels like.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
I would be fine with no BG toggle if the BG was appropriate, or had a replacement that was allowed by the ruleset.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Mithost wrote:

I would be fine with no BG toggle if the BG was appropriate, or had a replacement that was allowed by the ruleset.
peppy and a baseball bat
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
^Only applies to updates already added.
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe
NSFW <3
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,425 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Mithost wrote:

I think so. In most cases this game is at LEAST 16+ age wise.
This is one of the things what people don't understand.
I understand theMikeAG's statement, but things like NSFW Elements or SBs sometimes does not make this to a children-friendly place IMO.
However, to add a rule about a minimum of the age would be ridiculous. And easy to avoid.

And if you think about this, young children should not spend time in osu! an go out to play with other children.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc

TheNutritiousGuy wrote:

And if you think about this, young children should not spend time in osu! an go out to play with other children.
not necessarily, the only time i play osu! is in my room and in places where people can't see my screen because of BGs. and I'm 18
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
We shouldn't have to limit our playerbase to players ages 16 and up just so a few people can use ecchi backgrounds (which are never the only choice) in their maps. There are Ecchi skins you can use if you want to play osu! with those graphics there. If it wasn't for these backgrounds, I know half a dozen cousins/friends' siblings that are addicted to rhythm games and would be more than happy to pick this up.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,963 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
is this problem really as prevalent as this thread makes it seem? such quantities of questionable beatmap elements should not be passing through the MAT/BAT

anyone mind linking a few of the maps in question?
Backstabber_old
75 posts
Joined March 2011
Backstabber_old
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24315
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11947
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/29864
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/19882
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18729

I don't really mind having ecchi bg's on maps that allow it (all nightcore maps basically). A toggle would be nice but I see how that would not happen. The only problem with the BG's now is that you will not be able to delete them. I think you will have to either ban all echhi BGs (not wanted) or add an option of some sort for those who want something more "SFW".
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
>Epilepsy Warning
>Ecchi Warning
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos

Backstabber wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24315
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11947
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/29864
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/19882
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18729

I don't really mind having ecchi bg's on maps that allow it (all nightcore maps basically). A toggle would be nice but I see how that would not happen. The only problem with the BG's now is that you will not be able to delete them. I think you will have to either ban all echhi BGs (not wanted) or add an option of some sort for those who want something more "SFW".
I love how most of these are in official downloadable beatmap packs, and most monthly charts (not themed) have one or two of these backgrounds (or something like it).

I did some searching and I could find no rule/guideline talking about the content of backgrounds. You probably couldn't make a gore or cp background get through, but Ecchi and the such is not exactly implied.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Backstabber wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24315
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11947
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/29864
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/19882
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18729

I don't really mind having ecchi bg's on maps that allow it (all nightcore maps basically). A toggle would be nice but I see how that would not happen. The only problem with the BG's now is that you will not be able to delete them. I think you will have to either ban all echhi BGs (not wanted) or add an option of some sort for those who want something more "SFW".
What is the problem with girls in swimsuit? o.o If you go to a beach you will see even more. Or your brother, or whatever.
The Ass Up is okay tho. :o
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
It's a problem to parents watching their children playing video games. osu! shouldn't present a problem with parents that are watching out for their children for whatever reason. Young teenagers should be able to play osu! without looking over their shoulder, watching for parents. Older players might not find a problem with themselves playing with these backgrounds, but most sites with images in those beatmaps are labeled "Mature Content" or "For ages 18+". I know at least the mangas with it is rated M. :/
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
theMikeAG

Kurokami wrote:

What is the problem with girls in swimsuit? o.o If you go to a beach you will see even more. Or your brother, or whatever.
The Ass Up is okay tho. :o
That's just my point; people's standards are different. I personally find it ridiculous that women will wear less clothing on the beach than what they wear at night. I avoid looking at girls in swimsuits period.

Backstabber wrote:

...add an option of some sort for those who want something more "SFW".
This gave me an interesting idea. I wonder if it would be possible for beatmaps to have an alternate background if you will. If the content of one offends you, then you could download the other. And maybe we could request alternate backgrounds from the beatmapper himself. That way, you still enjoy the map the way the mapper intended, it's just a secondary way.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,963 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
alternate backgrounds? interesting prospect. i'll raise that with the development team and see what they think.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos

theMikeAG wrote:

Kurokami wrote:

What is the problem with girls in swimsuit? o.o If you go to a beach you will see even more. Or your brother, or whatever.
The Ass Up is okay tho. :o
That's just my point; people's standards are different. I personally find it ridiculous that women will wear less clothing on the beach than what they wear at night. I avoid looking at girls in swimsuits period.

Backstabber wrote:

...add an option of some sort for those who want something more "SFW".
This gave me an interesting idea. I wonder if it would be possible for beatmaps to have an alternate background if you will. If the content of one offends you, then you could download the other. And maybe we could request alternate backgrounds from the beatmapper himself. That way, you still enjoy the map the way the mapper intended, it's just a secondary way.
From page 1:
How about an option to download a "G rated" background instead of the normal one? I already use the "without video" download if I think there will be anything mature in them.
I support a secondary background for younger players/people who don't want to see the normal backgrounds. It would be the mapper's choice of a background (keeping it "play it how the mapper wanted you to"), and adding a secondary one would be at request of a modder or a MAT/BAT. Add the secondary BG as a guideline, add a button (or an account setting) to download the "G Rated" BG, and poof. Problem solved.

I remember complaining about this a year or two ago and all I got was "That map isn't that bad, most of the anime openings have things twice as Ecchi". That didn't solve my problem. Glad someone else is on board.
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Please don't play maps with images that disturb you. Usually there will be a warning on the beatmap info page, or you can tell from the thumbnail.

In the OP's case, you will need to delete said maps. End of story. If there are specific maps you would like to take up re: their background, post in the said maps' threads.

Keep in mind most of the linked maps above involve images of humans in swimsuits. This is not considered to be adult content. If you are offended by such images, please restrain yourself from playing the maps.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,963 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
additionally, i have also raised the issue of proper assessment for the backgrounds of maps entering the ranking, and i trust that some newer more appropriate rules regarding this will come into play soon in the future, which we may be applying retroactively to some of the more problematic maps.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
Thanks Eph. I kinda expected peppy's take would be "Don't play the songs you like if they have visual elements you don't like". That should be osu!'s motto IMO
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

theMikeAG wrote:

I avoid looking at girls in swimsuits period.
O.O
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
theMikeAG
Thanks peppy for making things clear.

I've also got to thank Ephemeral for supporting this thread and raising issues that I didn't think would be raised.
Thankfully, the two maps I've linked to earlier are the only ones I've had to edit, so not being able to edit backgrounds anymore shouldn't be a major loss.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

peppy wrote:

Keep in mind most of the linked maps above involve images of humans in swimsuits. This is not considered to be adult content. If you are offended by such images, please restrain yourself from playing the maps.
Can you really say that about image sets like what http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11947 ? Sorry but that's not just "humans in swimsuits". It's entirely NSFW by all means.
My 14 year old sister plays the piano real well and also enjoys some video games, but I wouldn't recommend osu to her so that she won't think I'm playing some japanese pedo game because of a lot of BGs the game uses (lately I just started removing those maps from my songs folder so that they won't show up on random at all).
Espionage724
944 posts
Joined August 2011
Espionage724

Aqo wrote:

peppy wrote:

Keep in mind most of the linked maps above involve images of humans in swimsuits. This is not considered to be adult content. If you are offended by such images, please restrain yourself from playing the maps.
Can you really say that about image sets like what http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11947 ? Sorry but that's not just "humans in swimsuits". It's entirely NSFW by all means...
I was just about to mention that beatmap, but looks like it was already done :p Probably the most NSFW beatmap I've ever seen. The alternate bgs idea would be pretty cool for beatmaps like this though, or just tone it down a bit
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
If you look for about 2 minutes on "Google Chrome Theme Gallery", you would see some "humans in swimsuits" that would get you kicked off a school computer, fired/punished at work, etc etc. Why does osu! have the ability to get you in trouble at school for the same reasons?
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

Kurokami wrote:

What is the problem with girls in swimsuit? o.o If you go to a beach you will see even more.
Where I live? No, not really. You may see some normal cleavage, but that's usually it; swimsuits here almost always adequately cover the sides and bottom of a woman's boobies. This is because that's how swimsuits are designed, and most women here like to pick swimsuits that fit. You may see the occasional bakini, but that's it.

Many of the swimsuits he linked are realistic, but a couple are essentially just nipple covers. I say keep the realistic swimsuits, but the nipple covers should be a no-no for what should be fairly obvious reasons (i.e. being way out of place in a rhythm game).

Really, the skimpiest swimsuits really are mostly reserved for sluts and pornstars. That's just where I live, though.
Cho_old
Cho_old

Mithost wrote:

Why does osu! have the ability to get you in trouble at school for the same reasons?
Here's an idea, try not playing osu in school where you're supposed to be learning.

Stupid ideas like this wouldn't pop up if that happened more.

YodaSnipe wrote:

NSFW <3
Because funnily enough I play osu at home, not at work or school.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Ekaru wrote:

Really, the skimpiest swimsuits really are mostly reserved for sluts and pornstars. That's just where I live, though.
I lol'd but its true. I know they are not the best backgrounds, but I think they are fit to the music.

On topic: Since until now I not say my own opinion, I write here right now. Since I like this kind of bgs and I'm old enough i don't care about them, but this game is for everyone so I think a toggle to change bg and a plus bg in the beatmap folder will be a good option. If the secondary bg's name is unchangeable, I mean like the skin elements name, this shouldn't be too much problem. "Secondary_bg.jpg" for example. Just as Ephemeral wrote.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

Mithost wrote:

Why does osu! have the ability to get you in trouble at school for the same reasons?
If you need the ethos for this, making osu more sfw and ecchi-free would make it more accessible and more desirable to play for a larger audience. Even if you like those backgrounds, I'm sure they're not the reason you enjoy the game, and you can just view them as images on your own. However for people who are bothered by those images for one reason or another, it hurts the accessibility to this game.

Generally speaking, even as a 21yo, I try to hide away the fact I play osu from my roommates (or more like, use two songs folders), so that they don't think I'm into japanese fetishes. Asking to remove anime OP videos from anime op songs would be stupid because it actually fits there, but how the hell do minimally dresses girls with emphasized body parts relate to "nightcore"? It has absolutely no connection.

Calling that "girls in swimsuits" is just not wanting to deal with an issue. There's a very clear and big difference between just a girl in a swimsuit and a girl in a sexually suggestive position/camera angle.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Aqo wrote:

Generally speaking, even as a 21yo, I try to hide away the fact I play osu from my roommates (or more like, use two songs folders), so that they don't think I'm into japanese fetishes. Asking to remove anime OP videos from anime op songs would be stupid because it actually fits there, but how the hell do minimally dresses girls with emphasized body parts relate to "nightcore"? It has absolutely no connection.
Nightcore = loli
loli = those pics
therefore those pics are fit to the music.
And:
I know they are not the best backgrounds, but I think they are fit to the music.
Also if you are afraid from your roommates, then you are baka. Who cares about what the other ppl think? Or if you personally not like those song then not play with them, its simple.
Cho_old
Cho_old

Aqo wrote:

how the hell do minimally dresses girls with emphasized body parts relate to "nightcore"? It has absolutely no connection.
You totally don't understand nightcore then, as far back as nightcore's origins and it's popularity first booming it has *always* had a connection to minimally dressed unrealistic drawings of girls. So yeah, it actually does make sense for that to continue and really, the BGs in osu for nightcore are always mild compared to the others outside of the game.

Also funnily enough I wouldn't want to show my parents or little sister some of the BGs in osu, my solution ? Play other beatmaps when they're here.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,963 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
this is not a place to discuss issues of playing questionable beatmaps in the presence of others. such a thing is a personal choice and particularly things of this nature are extremely specific to the individual in question, and is not a topic that is particularly fruitful to pursue.

we are currently investigating a list of problematic maps that have been brought to our attention and have already proceeded to temporarily unrank a few pending further background changes. this should not have become an issue in the first place, and a consensus has been raised to address this more formally at the next meeting of staff.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
Thank you. :)
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru
Thanks a lot for this, guys! If anything, I'm satisfied with just Ass Up! being fixed (even if it did take a while >_>), though I remember there being at least two other maps that went through this.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Ekaru wrote:

Thanks a lot for this, guys! If anything, I'm satisfied with just Ass Up! being fixed (even if it did take a while >_>), though I remember there being at least two other maps that went through this.
be happy, the good backgrounds are disappearing from osu! ._.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
This was just ranked... Far from "Humans in bathing suits" if you ask me.

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/45626
Cho_old
Cho_old
Yeah it's a human under bedsheets. But you're right, clearly because one background is offending a pathetically whiny and over-offended minority of the community it should be deleted.

As a side note given your playcount and time since joining would it really be that difficult for you to ignore that song ? Or is this just you getting fun out of having things you don't like for whatever disturbed reason changed ?
Last edited by Cho_old , edited 1 time in total.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Mithost wrote:

This was just ranked... Far from "Humans in bathing suits" if you ask me.

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/45626
Then download again and look at the folder. The bg is not the same, it was already changed. The thumbnail just sucks. Anyways the old pic was much better. o.o
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
Since the only arguments that currently exist are, "I get embaressed" and "This is an all ages game", I would like to request an unranking for http://osu.ppy.sh/b/118380&m=0 and http://osu.ppy.sh/s/933 as it has explicit lyrics which clearly are not suitable for all ages. I also get embarrassed when playing this which totally means it should be unranked as well. kthx.
D33d
1,699 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d

JappyBabes wrote:

Since the only arguments that currently exist are, "I get embaressed" and "This is an all ages game", I would like to request an unranking for http://osu.ppy.sh/b/118380&m=0 and http://osu.ppy.sh/s/933 as it has explicit lyrics which clearly are not suitable for all ages. I also get embarrassed when playing this which totally means it should be unranked as well. kthx.
The thing with explicit lyrics is that they can be kept to the player through the use of headphones. Backgrounds can't be hidden from other people, so anybody in a young person's family is able to see and be offended by a naked loli with a feather over her labia. A vaguely sexual background could be fine if it fits the song's theme, but it's blindingly obvious that loli backgrounds are usually used to grab attention or indulge the mapper. Just don't do it, okay? Stop trying to defend this balderdash.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
What about this? http://osu.ppy.sh/b/55041&m=0 The bg on Easy is fine? o.o
Cho_old
Cho_old

D33d wrote:

The thing with explicit lyrics is that they can be kept to the player through the use of headphones. Backgrounds can't be hidden from other people, so anybody in a young person's family is able to see and be offended by a naked loli with a feather over her labia.

Ephemeral wrote:

this is not a place to discuss issues of playing questionable beatmaps in the presence of others. such a thing is a personal choice and particularly things of this nature are extremely specific to the individual in question, and is not a topic that is particularly fruitful to pursue.
And from what I can see nobody is defending "naked loli with a feather over her labia" style backgrounds, rather one's where it's people in swimsuits, under bedcovers, wearing clothes that cover more than just the bare minimum but not enough for some people's standards etc. And again. Nightcore does have a relation to suggestive images. It has *always* been that way.

Also, explicit lyrics should be treated just the same as explicit backgrounds going by what Ephermeal has said because it has nothing to do with an audience that may or may not exist.

The "Protect the children" attitude is just getting stupid now, growing up on Duke Nukem, Quake and Kingpin I never once cried about "OH SHE HAS LESS CLOTHING THAN WOULD REALISTICALLY BE SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE" or "HE SAID A BAD WORD". The people coming out with arguments like this seem to be adults for the most part making it all the more obvious that what needs to happen is for some of us to grow up.
Last edited by Cho_old , edited 2 times in total.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

D33d wrote:

A vaguely sexual background could be fine if it fits the song's theme
That moment when Ass Up used pictures of asses up. gg

D33d wrote:

Backgrounds can't be hidden from other people
C:\Program Files (x86)\osu!\Songs\11947 Nightcore - Ass Up!
What.
Also, what people under the age of 13 are even playing this game? Your entire post was focused on embarrassment which as Empheral said doesn't come into the argument. The fact is the argument was made that this is an all ages game, therefore NSFW music should not be permitted as it is not for all ages.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Cho wrote:

And from what I can see nobody is defending "naked loli with a feather over her labia" style backgrounds, rather one's where it's people in swimsuits, under bedcovers, wearing clothes that cover more than just the bare minimum but not enough for some people's standards etc. And again. Nightcore does have a relation to suggestive images. It has *always* been that way.
This is the truth. Loli with less clothes = nightcore. As long as it is not naked its fine.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos

JappyBabes wrote:

D33d wrote:

A vaguely sexual background could be fine if it fits the song's theme
That moment when Ass Up used pictures of asses up. gg

D33d wrote:

Backgrounds can't be hidden from other people
C:\Program Files (x86)\osu!\Songs\11947 Nightcore - Ass Up!
What.
Also, what people under the age of 13 are even playing this game? Your entire post was focused on embarrassment which as Empheral said doesn't come into the argument. The fact is the argument was made that this is an all ages game, therefore NSFW music should not be permitted as it is not for all ages.
Altering files in beatmaps can get you banned in about 1-2 months. peppy is working on the thing that checks them now.

I think someone should be as comfortable playing rockband in their home as they should be playing osu!. The games are supposed to target a similar age group, yet one of them (In the view of a parent) involves clicking circles on "borderline cartoon child porn". I've heard these words come from a parent's mouth before about this game, which is why I'm not supporting the BGs. I know Nightcore = Loli, but most of you who are defending the BGs are also against a TOGGLE or a SECONDARY background of the mapper's choosing. That I don't understand completely.

People who say "avoid those maps"... I downloaded the Nightcore beatmap packs because I wanted to play on multiplayer more often, and most players have those songs. Anyone who wants to score high using the new pp scoring system will need to play a lot of newer maps, and the 20-30% of maps in question out of the equation, it's a handicap that shouldn't be there for someone who wants to play the game in the same house as children.

This is a video game, not porn. We shouldn't have to hide it the same way to the same people.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Mithost wrote:

...I know Nightcore = Loli, but most of you who are defending the BGs are also against a TOGGLE or a SECONDARY background of the mapper's choosing. That I don't understand completely.
Actually I support this just as I told it before. I want this more than bg changes. ._.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

Mithost wrote:

Altering files in beatmaps can get you banned
Altering files. Lol'd at that point. Please, blindly follow what ppy thinks some more. It amuses me.

Mithost wrote:

I think someone should be as comfortable playing rockband in their home as they should be playing osu!. The games are supposed to target a similar age group, yet one of them (In the view of a parent) involves clicking circles on "borderline cartoon child porn". I've heard these words come from a parent's mouth before about this game, which is why I'm not supporting the BGs. I know Nightcore = Loli, but most of you who are defending the BGs are also against a TOGGLE or a SECONDARY background of the mapper's choosing. That I don't understand completely.
Yes, I am comfortable playing the game as is. osu's audience is primarily made up of 13-19. My mother has watched me play, what you would call an NSFW BG, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/34337 and she had no objection so I don't see why you're basing your personal opinion from a parent. And I haven't said in this thread that the original BGs should be the only thing. People can make less sexual BGs as alternatives for downloading if they want but with the main audience of osu it shouldn't be needed. If you can't handle some animu girls you should probably get off the internet.

Mithost wrote:

This is a video game, not porn. We shouldn't have to hide it the same way to the same people.
To date, I have not seen a single NSFW background on any map.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos

JappyBabes wrote:

Mithost wrote:

Altering files in beatmaps can get you banned
Altering files. Lol'd at that point. Please, blindly follow what ppy thinks some more. It amuses me.

Mithost wrote:

I think someone should be as comfortable playing rockband in their home as they should be playing osu!. The games are supposed to target a similar age group, yet one of them (In the view of a parent) involves clicking circles on "borderline cartoon child porn". I've heard these words come from a parent's mouth before about this game, which is why I'm not supporting the BGs. I know Nightcore = Loli, but most of you who are defending the BGs are also against a TOGGLE or a SECONDARY background of the mapper's choosing. That I don't understand completely.
Yes, I am comfortable playing the game as is. osu's audience is primarily made up of 13-19. My mother has watched me play, what you would call an NSFW BG, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/34337 and she had no objection so I don't see why you're basing your personal opinion from a parent. And I haven't said in this thread that the original BGs should be the only thing. People can make less sexual BGs as alternatives for downloading if they want but with the main audience of osu it shouldn't be needed. If you can't handle some animu girls you should probably get off the internet.

Mithost wrote:

This is a video game, not porn. We shouldn't have to hide it the same way to the same people.
To date, I have not seen a single NSFW background on any map.
I'm just saying I'm reluctant to suggest this game to friends with younger siblings because I know for a fact they are going to run into these backgrounds, the kids are going to see it, and the parents could get pissed at my friend (and at me) for whatever reason regarding the backgrounds. I should be able to suggest these things to people without worrying about it, but as I've learned before, I can't. I've already gotten into some drama regarding other people's parents because of it.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

Ephemeral wrote:

this is not a place to discuss issues of playing questionable beatmaps in the presence of others. such a thing is a personal choice and particularly things of this nature are extremely specific to the individual in question, and is not a topic that is particularly fruitful to pursue.
Did you not read Eph's post?
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
I think the Google is even worst than osu!. I mean if the 12yo try to search after a pic, he/she eventually find a nude real life girl.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos

Kurokami wrote:

I think the Google is even worst than osu!. I mean if the 12yo try to search after a pic, he/she eventually find a nude real life girl.
At least google has safe search. It would be nice to have a age control thing on osu, or something.

Sorry Jabby, I missed it.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Mithost wrote:

It would be nice to have a age control thing on osu, or something.
Alternate bg with a toggle, I guess. Well it is sounds good. But what about the "ecchi" songs?
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
Songs with "questionable" lyrics are usually more saturated with pre-teens already. Some of the new-age music is kinda out there.some Heavy Metal having lyrics that involve ripping off faces and raping people... *shudder* I feel old It's also a bit easier to conceal for the older player because they can use headphones when kids are in the room. There are no PC monitor sunglasses yet though, so we are stuck on the visual aspect of these songs.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
The songs aren't being reranked with new BGs due to older players wanting to concealing what they're playing. It's to do with this game is supposed to be available to literally all ages which shouldn't be the case since people under 13 don't even play. Go re-read Eph's post.
Ohrami
685 posts
Joined March 2010
Ohrami

Mithost wrote:

Songs with "questionable" lyrics are usually more saturated with pre-teens already. Some of the new-age music is kinda out there.some Heavy Metal having lyrics that involve ripping off faces and raping people... *shudder* I feel old It's also a bit easier to conceal for the older player because they can use headphones when kids are in the room. There are no PC monitor sunglasses yet though, so we are stuck on the visual aspect of these songs.
Just rotate your monitor to face the wall.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Mithost wrote:

Songs with "questionable" lyrics are usually more saturated with pre-teens already. Some of the new-age music is kinda out there.some Heavy Metal having lyrics that involve ripping off faces and raping people... *shudder* I feel old It's also a bit easier to conceal for the older player because they can use headphones when kids are in the room. There are no PC monitor sunglasses yet though, so we are stuck on the visual aspect of these songs.
If you are playing with other online games, like WoW, when your little brother/sister is come into your room you will turn off or what when you are in a middle of a boss fight which is a big spider or something? I guess, no.
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Please avoid arguing about what is appropriate or not, but continue to point out any beatmaps that may have inappropriate content. We will make the decision of what needs to change, but I am definitely interested in seeing some of the stuff mentioned changed out (and have already started fixing those previously mentioned).
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
My favorite bg, but....this one is too much for a "3+" game.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/26946
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

Ephemeral wrote:

osu! is supposed to be all-ages and that is as much a part of the criteria as the more technical things

JappyBabes wrote:

I would like to request an unranking for http://osu.ppy.sh/b/118380&m=0 and http://osu.ppy.sh/s/933 as it has explicit lyrics which clearly are not suitable for all ages.
???
Cho_old
Cho_old

JappyBabes wrote:

Ephemeral wrote:

osu! is supposed to be all-ages and that is as much a part of the criteria as the more technical things

JappyBabes wrote:

I would like to request an unranking for http://osu.ppy.sh/b/118380&m=0 and http://osu.ppy.sh/s/933 as it has explicit lyrics which clearly are not suitable for all ages.
???
You ever get the feeling only one side is being listened to ?
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,963 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
Songs with mature lyrics are fine as long as a proper warning is put in place (as is noted on the second map). There is a considerable difference between suggestive map elements and explicit lyrics.
Cho_old
Cho_old

Ephemeral wrote:

Songs with mature lyrics are fine as long as a proper warning is put in place (as is noted on the second map). There is a considerable difference between suggestive map elements and explicit lyrics.
Often it seems like suggestive map elements are given warning aswell, just curious as to what the considerable difference is assuming both have warnings ?
(Not that I'm saying there are none without warnings)
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
Ass Up! went 1-2 years before a warning, iirc. I have seen some warnings around, but I've seen more maps without warnings than with them.

I'ma go search "Nightcore" and see what other maps I can locate.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Mithost wrote:

Ass Up! went 1-2 years before a warning, iirc. I have seen some warnings around, but I've seen more maps without warnings than with them.

I'ma go search "Nightcore" and see what other maps I can locate.
I wonder why you think only Nightcore maps have this kind of bg. o.o
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

ziin wrote:

fwiw Super Scription of Data is fixed with a new background already, thumbnail takes a bit to update tho =P
Lunah
903 posts
Joined November 2011
Lunah

ziin wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/35878
are you serious, or what

SPOILER
Delete every background that has a pink pixel, really.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

Ephemeral wrote:

Songs with mature lyrics are fine as long as a proper warning is put in place

ztrot wrote:

*Warning* some may be offended by this map's +16 content. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
GG. Guess there's no need for the warning on Ass Up any more.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
I don't think osu needs questionable material. Almost every site I found the image on has it marked that way.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

ziin wrote:

I don't think osu needs questionable material. Almost every site I found the image on has it marked that way.
Pretty much this. Most, if not all, of the images that have been changed so far are the types of things I find when surfing certain sites for fap material, and these types of images are almost always marked "NSFW" and typically require me to make an account and enable the "adult material flag" if they're found on a place that isn't solely a porn site.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

JappyBabes wrote:

Ephemeral wrote:

Songs with mature lyrics are fine as long as a proper warning is put in place

ztrot wrote:

*Warning* some may be offended by this map's +16 content. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
GG. Guess there's no need for the warning on Ass Up any more.
Yes there's a need, the warning was for the lyrics to begin with i assume considering the lyrics mention ass all the time.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
@ziin/Ekaru
So let's check a rather large hentai image base, shall we?

It's even in the safe version of the site. gg

Sakura wrote:

Yes there's a need, the warning was for the lyrics to begin with i assume considering the lyrics mention ass all the time.
Ass is totally a word for 16+>Checks my profile.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

JappyBabes wrote:

@ziin/Ekaru
So let's check a rather large hentai image base, shall we?
It's even in the safe version of the site. gg
look down a little bit. You'll notice it's listed as NOT safe, eg... questionable.


And just to put your argument completely to rest:

No nsfw tag exists on konachan.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
Should of said nsfw tags. Such as nude, breasts, nipples, uncensored etc. Since when was being in the safe mode of the site make it not safe? Questionable doesn't make it not safe.
On an additional note: Questionable is the same as ecchi I think. Ecchi can be both SFW and NSFW so using that really won't help you.
Last edited by JappyBabes , edited 1 time in total.
giiiuls
356 posts
Joined July 2011
giiiuls

lesslunatic wrote:

ziin wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/35878
are you serious, or what

SPOILER
Delete every background that has a pink pixel, really.
same here. e n e
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos

Ekaru wrote:

ziin wrote:

I don't think osu needs questionable material. Almost every site I found the image on has it marked that way.
Pretty much this. Most, if not all, of the images that have been changed so far are the types of things I find when surfing certain sites for fap material, and these types of images are almost always marked "NSFW" and typically require me to make an account and enable the "adult material flag" if they're found on a place that isn't solely a porn site.
This. ^^

Konachan calling something safe mode doesn't mean it should be on a rhythm game. It's obviously not as bad as some of the stuff on Konachan, but it's still something you would find if you searched "Hentai" on an image site.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

Mithost wrote:

It's obviously not as bad as some of the stuff on Konachan, but it's still something you would find if you searched "Hentai" on an image site.
define: hentai "A work of anime or manga (or any similar medium) that contains sexual or pornographic art."
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos

JappyBabes wrote:

Mithost wrote:

It's obviously not as bad as some of the stuff on Konachan, but it's still something you would find if you searched "Hentai" on an image site.
define: hentai "A work of anime or manga (or any similar medium) that contains sexual or pornographic art."
Bam!

Females in suggestive poses (upskirt, bent over, etc) wearing minimal clothes or showing skin in certain "sexual" areas. Sexual.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
Go watch a hentai. Tell me when you find one where it doesn't progress to sex. Also, hentai can be used to call someone a pervert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hentai Good read. Good pictures for examples ^_^ The picture in question is a SFW ecchi pic. Nothing bad.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
I'm going to get arrested if I walk outside with nothing but a hoodie on. If I have on underwear, I could probably get away with it. The picture in question has already been changed anyway.

Would you walk around in public like that? Please no witty response; it's not needed.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
Imo, witty responses are needed. And no I wouldn't as I actually don't go outside because I spend my life playing osu but there is such a thing as indecent exposure which is the law. This isn't the law, this is a game where maps are unranked and features implement by people with seemingly no argument for it. My main point is, if you're going to unrank maps due to the visual element not being suitable for all ages, even when the maps have had a warning, unrank/censor the .mp3 of songs with lyrics that aren't suitable. Or you can do nothing which tbh is the best option.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

ziin wrote:

I'm going to get arrested if I walk outside with nothing but a hoodie on. If I have on underwear, I could probably get away with it. The picture in question has already been changed anyway.

Would you walk around in public like that? Please no witty response; it's not needed.
I will not walk around in underwear, BUT in swimsuit, yes.

Also

I just find some funny pics, and some differences, BUT BE WARNED IT MAYBE NFSW!

NFSW


Maybe the difference is seeable with eyes. Personally I think the second one is perfect for this game. :3
Maybe I will get ban after this post. ._.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
Dat first pic.
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
theMikeAG
The problem here is one of choice. One group wants to be able to have near nudity in their Osu! However, this means that these explicit beatmaps show up on the Beatmap Listing and many players see them without wanting to. On the other hand, the other group wants a stricter background guideline so that they wouldn't have to see the near nudity, which leads to the other players complaining that their rights have been taken away.

Personally, I oppose the near nudity in backgrounds. I have several friends who I would recommend Osu! to if it weren't for these backgrounds showing up in the Listing. On some days, these backgrounds have taken up the entire front page. I also feel that these backgrounds damage our community and ruin the point of the game. People shouldn't be using Osu! to arouse themselves. :|

I expect that this thread will get locked soon, simply because this debate won't be settled anytime soon. I do hope that peppy solves this problem himself. This is not something that can just be swept under a rug and forgotten about.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
I'm not sure if you actually read what has been said, but I'm saying that the BATs have said we want this game for all ages but they've only been removing the visual elements that make it unsuitable and not the audible that are inappropriate for an all ages game. Don't pick and choose what you're going to rerank and label suitable.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
Personally I think if the creator put a warning to the beatmap title like "Ayane - Endless Tears (NSFW)" or "Ayane - Endless Tears (15+)" it will be enough. Of course if he/she wants to use that kind of image, or the audio is contains some fdgjkfb sound.

EDIT: This is not clearly NFSW, BUT.....
Cho_old
Cho_old
Here's an idea, osu! let's you input an age to your profile. Use that feature for something USEFUL for once that would allow both parties to have their way because children wouldn't have to look at the images and the people who don't mind them don't need to put up with people crying and getting good maps de-ranked because their personal taste doesn't agree with what has been fine for years.

JappyBabes wrote:

I'm not sure if you actually read what has been said, but I'm saying that the BATs have said we want this game for all ages but they've only been removing the visual elements that make it unsuitable and not the audible that are inappropriate for an all ages game. Don't pick and choose what you're going to rerank and label suitable.
This is also proving to be true and not addressed so far (Hah, surprise). If it's for all ages surely anything with even slightly suggestive lyrics aswell as images should be removed. Then we can all enjoy some instrumental touhou remixes with different colours of the dragonforce backgrounds, seems to be where this is headed at any rate.

Seems like things are being censored now that the 3+ audience osu apparently panders to would see on daytime TV by the way, still kind of confused as to why people are so scared of images depicting people and this really aggravating "I would introduce my friends but" argument, hey if your friends don't like a few backgrounds in a rythm game they can avoid it, but if you're scared of their opinion and what they might think of you because of things that have nothing to do with you then clearly you have other issues you need to seek help on.
Mithos
632 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
Jappy, we have already explained how visual effects are harder to censor around little kids than audio elements. Things like Ass Up! should have a warning for audio, because of obvious lyrics that are inappropriate. It seems like you are trying to defend the video elements instead of trying to come to a conclusion about what warrants an audio warning, something most of the staff that are unranking maps have done with visual elements.

Visual: If it is suggestive in a sexual way, shows excessive amounts of skin on the person, or has the context of the person being close to/if not already naked, it has grounds to be un-ranked until a warning/different background is in place.

Audio is a bit more lenient right now. If you want to argue that audio should be targeted too, please make some points about what would warrant an unrank. Please do this instead of arguing why nothing should be changed because audio is bad too.

Edit: And again, I support a use for the age feature that would "hide" maps from younger players, and a guideline/rule that makes mappers have to set a age group for the elements. It's a winwin.
Cho_old
Cho_old

Mithost wrote:

Edit: And again, I support a use for the age feature that would "hide" maps from younger players, and a guideline/rule that makes mappers have to set a age group for the elements. It's a winwin.
Seems like what we need to do is end the argument then and get both sides to agree to a feature request (I mean, I know that's the equivalent of changing nothing but it might eventually one day have some knock on effect that inspires a half-done idea that would solve some minor grievances)

But Ephermeal has already said this has nothing to do with hiding it around people walking past, it's about the players themselves and what is allowed for them alone to experience.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Im sorry Mithost but Jappy has a point (even tho it wasnt portrayed correctly) we should be protecting the children, not make them want to hide what they are listening to due to absurd lyrics.

I'd certainly wouldnt like if a child of mine is listening to: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/21145 (which i was opposed to getting ranked from day 1)
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
http://www.justsomelyrics.com/1895027/S ... Row-Lyrics http://osu.ppy.sh/s/933
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