lovhin456 wrote:

[wring]
- 01:41:802 (3,4) ~ The jump here is a bit too much imo, try to reduce it a bit ?ok
- 02:28:166 ~ I think that this will be a good part too add streams (you can hear the drums in the music) but if you want to keep it like how it is then that's fine too umm....I will try to do.

Derekku wrote:

June 2nd UPDATE:
Welcome back: Skyripper and Saturos-fangirl!

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

[wring]
00:11:788 (3,5) - messy ? This is a pattern do you not see it? http://puu.sh/zGg9 How are we supposed to create patterns if you're just going to complain about it?
00:30:552 (2) - random jump?
00:34:132 (4,2,1,2,1) - incredibly messy and the spacing is weird in places as well
00:37:712 (3) - spacing
00:39:075 (4,1,2,3,4) - ok seriously you can't just change the spacing whenever you feel like it, it has to make sense. This does not. This is a zigzag jump pattern. Again, Subjective. You don't think it fits, however mapper begs to differ. He'd like to make things more interesting by placing beats this way. Or else, how about we all just follow the same distance snap the whole map that'll be super fun.
00:45:723 (4) - ^
00:46:064 (2) - ^
00:47:087 (3) - ^
00:51:518 (3) - ^
00:52:712 (2) - ^
00:56:462 (6) - ^
01:33:961 (2) - ^
01:35:666 (2) - ^ and this one just looks ugly too lol. just looks ugly. wow. great mod.
01:40:950 (4,1,2,1,2,3,1) - messy as fuck This is another jump section, and seriously you're going to put this in an Insane diff mod? it's fucking AR9, doesn't mean you can't read this. if this was fucking AR4 then yea, it's messy as hell and NOBODY would be able to read it. but this is not. Please don't just throw around a mod saying 'messy' to a JUMP pattern.
01:44:530 (3) - horrible spacing change
01:46:575 (3) - ^
01:48:109 (2) - stack this under 3
01:53:905 (7) - horrible spacing change
01:55:950 (9) - messy under 7
02:03:450 (7) - why the fuck is this all the way over here?
02:12:484 (5) - no. <- seriously? how many insane maps have you played to throw in a mod like this? I'll bet if I download any random map from the 1st page of ranked maps, I'd find this jump in the difficulty. rofl.
02:17:086 (6,7) - messy
02:21:348 (4) - no.
02:26:802 (3) - ^ http://puu.sh/zGpf another complaint about a pattern. rofl.
02:27:314 (3) - ^
02:40:950 (3) - ^
02:41:632 (3) - ^
02:42:314 (3) - ^
02:43:166 (4) - ^
02:43:848 (1) - messy

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

[wring]
00:11:788 (3,5) - messy
00:30:552 (2) - random jump?I cannot understand why you say that.
00:34:132 (4,2,1,2,1) - incredibly messy and the spacing is weird in places as wellIt's just repeat same pattern.
00:37:712 (3) - spacing
00:39:075 (4,1,2,3,4) - ok seriously you can't just change the spacing whenever you feel like it, it has to make sense. This does not.okay. You have nice sense and I have no sense. But sorry, it's my messy sense.
00:45:723 (4) - ^
00:46:064 (2) - ^
00:47:087 (3) - ^
00:51:518 (3) - ^
00:52:712 (2) - ^
00:56:462 (6) - ^
01:33:961 (2) - ^
01:35:666 (2) - ^ and this one just looks ugly tooplz teach me where should I have set. I think it's no problem, but okay I fixed.
01:40:950 (4,1,2,1,2,3,1) - messy as fuck Sorry I like jumping:)
01:44:530 (3) - horrible spacing change
01:46:575 (3) - ^
01:48:109 (2) - stack this under 3no thank you. It will be confused imo
01:53:905 (7) - horrible spacing changeoh, then if I change add new combo, it can be not horrible?
01:55:950 (9) - messy under 7people can pass it
02:03:450 (7) - why the fuck is this all the way over here?because it's just fuck interesting jump, isn't it?
02:12:484 (5) - no.oh no
02:17:086 (6,7) - messyplz give me some ideas
02:21:348 (4) - no.
02:26:802 (3) - ^
02:27:314 (3) - ^
02:40:950 (3) - ^
02:41:632 (3) - ^
02:42:314 (3) - ^
02:43:166 (4) - ^
02:43:848 (1) - messy

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

00:11:788 (3,5) - messy

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

holysoup

SPOILER

I understand that things have changed; for this reason I specifically spent some time catching up on modern modding standards before requesting to rejoin the BAT. It is rather rude and uninformed of you to assume that I would be on the team if my modding was subpar for any reason including being "out-of-date."

00:11:788 (3,5) - the complaint I had is that the pattern overlaps itself in such a way that one of the hitbursts covers a later circle, which is unnecessary and makes it more difficult to read as well as just plain looking ugly. It is not a difficult problem to fix, either, even if you want to keep the general shape of the pattern. It's a very consistent spacing with the previous parts, or are you suggesting to increase the spacing in the whole part? Seems not that good.

00:39:075 (4,1,2,3,4) - or more specifically 00:39:757 (3) - there is no reason, for the music or the pattern, that this needs to be as far away from 2 as it is. The jump is unnecessary and therefore should not be here. 00:39:757 (1,2) slider gives much more leniency than circles, i don't mind a jump, but it seems a bit far.
A side note here: it is completely possible to make an entertaining map with no jumps, using the same distance snap and the same slider velocity for the entire thing. If anything, these changes are gimmicks used by mappers to make their map seem more interesting without actually putting more effort or creativity into their maps. Check today's maps, or map something yourself then get players play it. It's nearly impossible.


02:12:484 (5) - I don't bother writing things out every single time they happen; I assume that if the mapper has been looking at my previous comments they can infer what the issue is that I am referring to without my walking them through it. I don't really get it.

02:26:802 (3) - this might be a foreign concept to you, but its actually quite thoroughly possible to make patterns without random jumps in them, and they tend to actually look better than ones with random jumps as well as being less gimmicky and stupid. The "jump" has a new combo and totally fine. What i'll say about this is the flow is a bit boring, my suggestion: http://puu.sh/zSUZ

I thought this community is all about helping others to make their beatmaps better and NOT completely trash their mapping. Not to mention the foul language you used in your mod, but damn, some people on the team always manages to surprise me. Your mod not only destroys mapper's spirit and trashes it completely I don't even think you're here to really help. All you did in your mod is criticize a mapping style that doesn't fit your taste. Are you serious?

This is exceptionally disrespectful. If you look at posts I have made of other maps, you will note that if something isn't completely unacceptable, I tend to be okay with it or occasionally make a suggestion. However, I refuse to baby people who can't let go of bad habits that harm their maps. I don't dance around hoping that maybe they will notice the issue I'm referring to; I tell it like it is.
P.S. "My taste" has nothing to do with it. NO modern map fits "my taste" anymore and yet you see me bubbling maps anyways. If you really want to know what "my taste" is you can go download one of my pending maps and maybe take out some of your anger issues modding it. Thanks and have a nice day.
A mod post like this http://puu.sh/zT26 simply shows your disrespct to the mapper.... so really, what would you expect then?

wring:

SPOILER

00:30:552 (2) - there is no reason for this jump either pattern-wise or within the music. It is therefore unnecessary and it would be better for you to find a way of eliminating the jump altogether. It's just too common i don't even know where to start. in AR9, spacing is no longer that important to read maps. And if something is readable/playable, it shouldn't be a problem. btw, in this part, the hitsounds should probably be a clap at 00:30:212 (1)'s end + a clap at 00:30:893 (1)'s beginning instead of the clap on 00:30:552 (2) -

00:34:132 (4,2,1,2,1) - or more specifically 00:34:302 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - this is another example of a place where the spacing change between 1,2, and 3 is completely unnecessary as well as unexpected and therefore should not be there. 00:34:302 (1) - Start from here, i'd suggest a hitsounds like o x x o x x o x o x (x=clap o=normal), it may makes more sense to your patterns (3 in a group)


00:39:075 (4,1,2,3,4) - Well, the reason I am a BAT is because I have nice sense so thank you for the compliment. However, this is still something that needs to be changed before your map will be rankable.
Edit: someone has nicely pointed out that I actually linked the wrong timestamp, sorry about that! 00:39:246 (1,2,3,4) - this is the combo I am referring to.
For spacing, i suggest you to know more about AR9 trend, and how spacing changed in these years... Also the attitude is really... meh.


01:40:950 (4,1,2,1,2,3,1) - There isn't any particular problem with using jumps, but they should be in places where it makes sense with the music or where you have expectations of a jump for some reason or another (usually symmetry can force jumps, etc). You tend to just put them every which where, which makes things messy and not particularly intuitive. I agree with these part though, it's not a jumpy part (music)


01:55:950 (9) - Usually if I call something messy I mean that it looks bad and you could easily improve it, rather than that its not passable. cross sliders are common, and it don't stack with hitbursts so fine.

02:03:450 (7) - I would call it more "out of the way" than an interesting jump...its kind of off in the middle of nowhere in the opposite direction that you just moved. It would make more sense if it were in the same direction. http://puu.sh/zT16 something i may suggest, but it doesn't matter if the mapper wants to keep.


02:17:086 (6,7) - I don't usually like giving mappers ideas because I feel like it inserts my mapping style into theirs. However, since you ask this is a possible solution (although you would have to mess with 8 a bit too)

I don't have a problem with your map being a jumping map, but the places where it jumps should make sense rather than just be in whatever location you decided to put a jump. Usually good ways to make your map jumpy are 1) symmetry jumps, 2) combos in "exciting" phrases of music, 3) places where the actual rate of hits already slows down some, and 4) between phrases/combos. I hope that helps.

If either of you have any questions, ask me in IRC. I'm usually on either in #modhelp or you can pm me. I would be glad to discuss things with you but I cannot in good conscience rebubble this map at this time.

Soaprman wrote:

The map was a bit tough for me to read the first time but I think it was less because of the patterns (which largely do make sense) and more because of the needlessly high AR. Kicking the AR down to 8 made the readability issues simply vanish. I see it's been suggested earlier in the thread too so I'm not alone in thinking this.

NatsumeRin wrote:

quote="Saturos-fangirl"
holysoup

SPOILER

I understand that things have changed; for this reason I specifically spent some time catching up on modern modding standards before requesting to rejoin the BAT. It is rather rude and uninformed of you to assume that I would be on the team if my modding was subpar for any reason including being "out-of-date."

00:11:788 (3,5) - the complaint I had is that the pattern overlaps itself in such a way that one of the hitbursts covers a later circle, which is unnecessary and makes it more difficult to read as well as just plain looking ugly. It is not a difficult problem to fix, either, even if you want to keep the general shape of the pattern. It's a very consistent spacing with the previous parts, or are you suggesting to increase the spacing in the whole part? Seems not that good.It needn't fix imo

00:39:075 (4,1,2,3,4) - or more specifically 00:39:757 (3) - there is no reason, for the music or the pattern, that this needs to be as far away from 2 as it is. The jump is unnecessary and therefore should not be here. 00:39:757 (1,2) slider gives much more leniency than circles, i don't mind a jump, but it seems a bit far.
A side note here: it is completely possible to make an entertaining map with no jumps, using the same distance snap and the same slider velocity for the entire thing. If anything, these changes are gimmicks used by mappers to make their map seem more interesting without actually putting more effort or creativity into their maps. Check today's maps, or map something yourself then get players play it. It's nearly impossible.
fixed

02:12:484 (5) - I don't bother writing things out every single time they happen; I assume that if the mapper has been looking at my previous comments they can infer what the issue is that I am referring to without my walking them through it. I don't really get it.

02:26:802 (3) - this might be a foreign concept to you, but its actually quite thoroughly possible to make patterns without random jumps in them, and they tend to actually look better than ones with random jumps as well as being less gimmicky and stupid. The "jump" has a new combo and totally fine. What i'll say about this is the flow is a bit boring, my suggestion: http://puu.sh/zSUZI will keep it.

I thought this community is all about helping others to make their beatmaps better and NOT completely trash their mapping. Not to mention the foul language you used in your mod, but damn, some people on the team always manages to surprise me. Your mod not only destroys mapper's spirit and trashes it completely I don't even think you're here to really help. All you did in your mod is criticize a mapping style that doesn't fit your taste. Are you serious?

This is exceptionally disrespectful. If you look at posts I have made of other maps, you will note that if something isn't completely unacceptable, I tend to be okay with it or occasionally make a suggestion. However, I refuse to baby people who can't let go of bad habits that harm their maps. I don't dance around hoping that maybe they will notice the issue I'm referring to; I tell it like it is.
P.S. "My taste" has nothing to do with it. NO modern map fits "my taste" anymore and yet you see me bubbling maps anyways. If you really want to know what "my taste" is you can go download one of my pending maps and maybe take out some of your anger issues modding it. Thanks and have a nice day.
A mod post like this http://puu.sh/zT26 simply shows your disrespct to the mapper.... so really, what would you expect then?

wring:

SPOILER

00:30:552 (2) - there is no reason for this jump either pattern-wise or within the music. It is therefore unnecessary and it would be better for you to find a way of eliminating the jump altogether. It's just too common i don't even know where to start. in AR9, spacing is no longer that important to read maps. And if something is readable/playable, it shouldn't be a problem. btw, in this part, the hitsounds should probably be a clap at 00:30:212 (1)'s end + a clap at 00:30:893 (1)'s beginning instead of the clap on 00:30:552 (2) - fixed

00:34:132 (4,2,1,2,1) - or more specifically 00:34:302 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - this is another example of a place where the spacing change between 1,2, and 3 is completely unnecessary as well as unexpected and therefore should not be there. 00:34:302 (1) - Start from here, i'd suggest a hitsounds like o x x o x x o x o x (x=clap o=normal), it may makes more sense to your patterns (3 in a group)
keep the pattern and fix the hitsounds

00:39:075 (4,1,2,3,4) - Well, the reason I am a BAT is because I have nice sense so thank you for the compliment. However, this is still something that needs to be changed before your map will be rankable.
Edit: someone has nicely pointed out that I actually linked the wrong timestamp, sorry about that! 00:39:246 (1,2,3,4) - this is the combo I am referring to.
For spacing, i suggest you to know more about AR9 trend, and how spacing changed in these years... Also the attitude is really... meh.


01:40:950 (4,1,2,1,2,3,1) - There isn't any particular problem with using jumps, but they should be in places where it makes sense with the music or where you have expectations of a jump for some reason or another (usually symmetry can force jumps, etc). You tend to just put them every which where, which makes things messy and not particularly intuitive. I agree with these part though, it's not a jumpy part (music)
fixed

01:55:950 (9) - Usually if I call something messy I mean that it looks bad and you could easily improve it, rather than that its not passable. cross sliders are common, and it don't stack with hitbursts so fine.

02:03:450 (7) - I would call it more "out of the way" than an interesting jump...its kind of off in the middle of nowhere in the opposite direction that you just moved. It would make more sense if it were in the same direction. http://puu.sh/zT16 something i may suggest, but it doesn't matter if the mapper wants to keep.
fixed

02:17:086 (6,7) - I don't usually like giving mappers ideas because I feel like it inserts my mapping style into theirs. However, since you ask this is a possible solution (although you would have to mess with 8 a bit too)fixed

I don't have a problem with your map being a jumping map, but the places where it jumps should make sense rather than just be in whatever location you decided to put a jump. Usually good ways to make your map jumpy are 1) symmetry jumps, 2) combos in "exciting" phrases of music, 3) places where the actual rate of hits already slows down some, and 4) between phrases/combos. I hope that helps.
oh dear.I just can say there are more and more interesting jumping set than you thought imo. Especially in 1), of couse the symmetry jumps are very fun to play and I love them, but another type of jumps are fun to play too.I hope you to understand only that.

If either of you have any questions, ask me in IRC. I'm usually on either in #modhelp or you can pm me. I would be glad to discuss things with you but I cannot in good conscience rebubble this map at this time. /quote

Also there's an unrankable issue in [Wring]

00:12:494 (1) - spinner's end not snapped.fixed

I can't imagine why post those things instead of point out things really matter... sigh.

1. 00:12:494 (1) - Sounds like this spinner is still a part of "koeru". You might want to remove the new combo on the spinner.
2. 00:34:302 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - This pattern is very confusing. It's too jumpy for its own good.
3. 00:45:041 (1,2) - The rhythm pattern would be more natural if it was like this:
   
4. 00:52:371 (1) - Perhaps remove this new combo to be completely consistent with all your "streams into sliders" combo patterning.
5. 01:09:587 (2) - Looks like new combo should be here instead of 01:09:416 (1) - .
6. 01:13:848 (1) - Remove this new combo for the first reason.
7. 01:17:598 (5) - Looks like new combo should be here instead of 01:17:939 (1) - . You'll want to apply these four as a whole; otherwise we'll have to come up with another consistent combo pattern.
8. 01:46:916 (1) - Do you think anything can be done to improve the readability of this slider? The hitburst of 01:46:234 (2) - covers almost all of it, and many will get a 100 here
   01:52:030 (3) - Just wondering why this isn't in the same direction as 01:50:666 (3) - and 01:51:348 (3) - .
9. 02:14:189 (1) - Why isn't this stacked with 02:13:848 (4) - to follow what you did with the first chorus? Since this happened a total of four times in the first chorus, players (I know I did) would expect an abrupt stop in the flow at this part in the chorus as well.
10. 02:18:791 (1) - Again, like the previous chorus, stack this with 02:18:450 (2) - . A possible fix would be to reverse the combo 02:18:791 (1,2,3) - and repositioning 02:19:302 (1) - for better spacing.
11. 02:44:530 (1) - and 02:45:212 (1) - What's the combo patterning here like?
12. 02:58:507 (1) - and 02:58:933 (1) - Sounds like this whole combo is part of "mieru", so you should remove the new combo on these two objects.

NatsumeRin wrote:

[Hard]
00:28:166 - add a note? (in fact i prefer a bit more change to get the music but whatever) Hmm,I dont get music
00:30:893 (1) - needs to be this slow? (0.75x is not enough?)ok,changed~
00:49:473 (1,2,3,4,5) - kinda don't get it, the pitch here is a _-_-_ (lazy to get better examples), but 1-5 seems more a shape but not really following the music.
k,changed
.

those wrote:

Eh..

[wring]

1. 00:12:494 (1) - Sounds like this spinner is still a part of "koeru". You might want to remove the new combo on the spinner.remain. It's unrankable, isn't it?
2. 00:34:302 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - This pattern is very confusing. It's too jumpy for its own good.sorry no. It's used NC for reading.
3. 00:45:041 (1,2) - The rhythm pattern would be more natural if it was like this:no.I think the slider start is the phrase start.
   
4. 00:52:371 (1) - Perhaps remove this new combo to be completely consistent with all your "streams into sliders" combo patterning.ok. And changed some NC.
5. 01:09:587 (2) - Looks like new combo should be here instead of 01:09:416 (1) - .ok
6. 01:13:848 (1) - Remove this new combo for the first reason.no. This is better imo.
7. 01:17:598 (5) - Looks like new combo should be here instead of 01:17:939 (1) - . You'll want to apply these four as a whole; otherwise we'll have to come up with another consistent combo pattern.umm? ok, I fixed, but I want to show the pentagon in the same collor.
8. 01:46:916 (1) - Do you think anything can be done to improve the readability of this slider? The hitburst of 01:46:234 (2) - covers almost all of it, and many will get a 100 hereI think that not a big problem because of AR9.If it's an unrankable set, I will fix.
   01:52:030 (3) - Just wondering why this isn't in the same direction as 01:50:666 (3) - and 01:51:348 (3) - .Because the later 01:52:371 (4,1) - , I want to curve slider for 01:52:712 (1) -
9. 02:14:189 (1) - Why isn't this stacked with 02:13:848 (4) - to follow what you did with the first chorus? Since this happened a total of four times in the first chorus, players (I know I did) would expect an abrupt stop in the flow at this part in the chorus as well.Because everything used the same pattern is not interesting for me. And already four times have used, it's easy to feel the rhythm imo.
10. 02:18:791 (1) - Again, like the previous chorus, stack this with 02:18:450 (2) - . A possible fix would be to reverse the combo 02:18:791 (1,2,3) - and repositioning 02:19:302 (1) - for better spacing.^ same reason
11. 02:44:530 (1) - and 02:45:212 (1) - What's the combo patterning here like?sorry I could not understand what you say, is the NC bad?
12. 02:58:507 (1) - and 02:58:933 (1) - Sounds like this whole combo is part of "mieru", so you should remove the new combo on these two objects.Only the former I fixed.

NatsumeRin wrote:

[wring]
00:12:141 (5,6) - i think here should be a "up" feeling, but the current placement seems hard to do that... what about http://puu.sh/AmoEok
01:09:246 - add a note?ok
01:53:052 (3) - miss a clap here?oops, thank you
last kiai is the best part of the diff, kinda a pain other parts is not as good (still fine though!) :<
You really understand me!!

wring wrote:

those wrote:

Eh..

[wring]

1. 00:12:494 (1) - remain. It's unrankable, isn't it? It's not unrankable, and it will do a better job accounting for HP drain.
2. 00:45:041 (1,2) - no.I think the slider start is the phrase start. "jibun" sounds more like {circle-slider}, since "ji" isn't really grouped with "bu-n" as "bu-n" is a harder and longer sound (you're Japanese, so you should know more about this than I do).
3. 01:52:030 (3) - Because the later 01:52:371 (4,1) - , I want to curve slider for 01:52:712 (1) - The real question is, why did you break the formation at 01:52:030 (3) - instead of making 01:52:371 (4) - face the other direction?
4. 02:14:189 (1) - Because everything used the same pattern is not interesting for me. And already four times have used, it's easy to feel the rhythm imo. Start a pattern, continue it. Otherwise, don't start the pattern at all. Therefore you should unstack some in the first chorus, or stack these. Apply this to 02:18:791 (1) -
5. 02:58:507 (1) - and 02:58:933 (1) - Only the former I fixed. As I mentioned before, it's not unrankable, and it will be better if 02:58:848 - didn't give as much HP, so you should remove the combo from the spinner

those wrote:

[wring]

1. 00:12:494 (1) - It's not unrankable, and it will do a better job accounting for HP drain.ok
2. 00:45:041 (1,2) - "jibun" sounds more like {circle-slider}, since "ji" isn't really grouped with "bu-n" as "bu-n" is a harder and longer sound (you're Japanese, so you should know more about this than I do).probably yes I know, so that I want to remain that.
3. 01:52:030 (3) - The real question is, why did you break the formation at 01:52:030 (3) - instead of making 01:52:371 (4) - face the other direction?I know what you say, though, players can guess that the first and second formation is same pattern, and the third is another type. Truly the third (3) and (4) is same. But okay. I changed the first and second, then it would be fine, isn't it?
4. 02:14:189 (1) - Start a pattern, continue it. Otherwise, don't start the pattern at all. Therefore you should unstack some in the first chorus, or stack these. Apply this to 02:18:791 (1) - I thought it own me. I have no reason to continue this style and it would be weary by using too every time. It's not in general, just my feeling.
5. 02:58:507 (1) - and 02:58:933 (1) - As I mentioned before, it's not unrankable, and it will be better if 02:58:848 - didn't give as much HP, so you should remove the combo from the spinnerok

NatsumeRin wrote:

bubble back.

S o r d a wrote:

Finally my first map ranked!