After look at the discussion topics, no one has really mention looking at the rules as a whole and see how they relate to each other.
hopefully changing the title will make it clearer

how specific rules relate to another specific rules.

For Example

new rules/guidelines wrote:

The song should not be too long. Aim for 3 minutes maximum; anything longer gets tiring. If you need help editing a song down to length, feel free to ask in the Beatmap General Questions forum.

The maximum draining time for a map is 4 1/2 minutes. "Draining time" is the total time of a song excluding breaks, intro, and outro. Thus, it's the length of time that hitobjects are on-screen.

Total contradiction

new rules/guidelines wrote:

Gameplay elements must be visible. You cannot make any element that will impair the playability of the map invisible as it will make the map unintuitive or even impossible to play.

Spinner circles must have a clearly visible center to make sure players have something to effectively spin around while playing through the map.

Spinner circles must be clearly visible (i.e. they should not be excessively transparent or near-invisible). This will ensure that players have a visible aid to help them spin consistently

isn't only the first one needed.

We already had this discussion months ago.

Pretty much everybody agreed that some things needed to be changed.

So, I think we should continue with politely proposing and discussing specific changes to the rules/guidelines and see where that takes us, because that's the best course of action to take right now.

I sometimes get the impression that the rules/guidelines are being made for the wrong reason... that they are being made to reject experienced mappers' works rather than to help new players learn the ropes while they develop their style. There are a lot of things that I think could be softened or dropped outright since the experienced mappers they would mostly be affecting have enough common sense to know what works and what doesn't. But that's for the individual rule/guideline threads.

I believe that no mapping technique should be forbidden if there is even the slightest chance of it being used in a tasteful way.

I probably should have put more emphasis on the "how they relate to each other part"

ouranhshc wrote:

I probably should have put more emphasis on the "how they relate to each other part"

As to how they relate to each other, they want you to make a mapset with a good difficulty distribution, have them be 100% readable (though this is vaguely defined), and for you to make a significant contribution to the mapset.

That's how I see it, at least.

Ekaru wrote:

ouranhshc wrote:

I probably should have put more emphasis on the "how they relate to each other part"

As to how they relate to each other, they want you to make a mapset with a good difficulty distribution, have them be 100% readable (though this is vaguely defined), and for you to make a significant contribution to the mapset.

That's how I see it, at least.

how specific rules relate to another specific rules.

For Example

new rules/guidelines wrote:

The song should not be too long. Aim for 3 minutes maximum; anything longer gets tiring. If you need help editing a song down to length, feel free to ask in the Beatmap General Questions forum.

The maximum draining time for a map is 4 1/2 minutes. "Draining time" is the total time of a song excluding breaks, intro, and outro. Thus, it's the length of time that hitobjects are on-screen.

That's what the public is here to do, ouran - point out oversights that may have been made by other people.

ouranhshc wrote:

Shulin wrote:

the problem with the new rules is that they cater to certain mapping styles and completely leave out others

I totally agree with that ^

I fail to see how this is the case; unless your mapping style is built around placing objects under the HP bar to hide them, or ninjaspinners, or meyou22's mapping, I can't see how the new rules and guidelines restrict one's mapping style in any way. Some of the guidelines about spacing and similar subjects could be taken a bit too at face value, in which case, please bring them up individually. That's what this forum's here for, now's your chance to try to change our minds, and we welcome you to do so.

When new rules/guidelines were recently added the discussion was too chaotic and was hard to focus on the opinions for each individual rules, which is why it was decided that it's better off 1 thread per rule, that way it's easier to keep track of everything.

ouranhshc wrote:

After look at the discussion topics, no one has really mention looking at the rules as a whole and see how they relate to each other.

Shulin wrote:

the problem with the new rules is that they cater to certain mapping styles and completely leave out others

I totally agree with that ^

I interested in what others think about the rules/guidelines as a whole.

Well, i do think they should be corrected, but somehow they don't want to fully correct them to make them acceptable by all with no regrets.

Card_n'Force categorization do work better anyway, as it makes you see all the rules linked to something

Sakura Hana wrote:

When new rules/guidelines were recently added the discussion was too chaotic and was hard to focus on the opinions for each individual rules, which is why it was decided that it's better off 1 thread per rule, that way it's easier to keep track of everything.

what does that have to do with looking at how each the rules work with each other. I should probably slide my example from earlier into the opening post.

The maximum draining time for a map is 4 1/2 minutes.

I really think this rule should still be modified. I have a map that is still work in progress and after the math I managed to cut everything down to 4:35.
I know there is 1 part of the map that can be break(about 20+seconds), but it will not feel natural after the break. I might change my mind by the time I finished the map, but there are other songs I wanted to do, which are about 6 mins. After the break, intro and out left-out, it still won't manage to fit in to the 4:30 time frame. A lot of relaxing music are over 5 minutes. Although I do not mind to submit it as approved, but as we see, approve maps are not a place for relaxing music. those maps are for pro players. It will not fit into the approve category. I really felt that there is a big gap between the ranked and approved category and the approved category should not be defined as just, max score, length, and difficulty spread or else these relaxing music more than 5 mins has no were to go.

In general, maybe difficulty spread and max score can be consider to be approved, but length shouldn't be also considered as a perimeter for it. cutting a good song into half or heavy breaks for ranking is totally not acceptable in my opinion. A song is a song. it has some thing they try to say. some songs takes more words to express them. It should be complete.

To add to my point, approved maps generally has (much) less play count as ranked. This might partially is because of the "approved" name. I would be a bit disappointed if what I mapped with all the standard diffs, satisfies all other ranked rules but not the length requirement to fit into this category.


Of course, there is another option. if it doesn't satisfy that rule and wanted to get ranked, let it sink. That would be a bit mean and it narrows down tons of great song selection that is playable in Osu.

What I am trying to say is... rules should be obeyed 95.9% of the time, but it is up to the MAT or BAT to give a little grace to it. Rule should not be absolutely absolute. (although this means more work for the BAT and MAT...)

troll: If a player does not want to play long maps, he can choose not play it. Others who love the song, they can both enjoy and get ranked score at the same time.
troll2:Maybe those long length maps have high combos, we can do a 0.xx multiplier to the score and maintain it within a reasonable range.

1) you should've created a different topic
2) 4:30 draining time doesn't mean 4:30 total time, 4:30 + breaks can actually even be even 7:00 ... dependong on the song...
3) well, we could actually extend it to 5 minutes draining time, no more. ( you won't be able to map more decent difficulty, as the score will be to great )

There must not be any obscene imagery in the background/storyboard/video content. This includes nudity, near-nudity, sexual references, violence, drug abuse, etc. Keep things PG, suitable for ages 12+.

Songs/Maps with mature lyrics/themes must be marked with a label such as "18+" in the map's thread. This game is for all ages, and so a warning is needed for younger audiences. There is currently no way to distinguish this outside of the map's thread, but this may change in the future.

They actually contradict very much.

The 1st say "we have to keep all PG-12", the 2nd, " Songs/Maps with mature theme/lyrics must be marked with a label such as "18+".

Plus there are actualy specification for games as:

PG-12 mean:
(CERO)
-Light-to-Medium Bad-language
-Light Violence with No-to-Low Blood
-Suggestive Clothing or Sexual References, Convenient Censoring included
-Gambling References and Simulation
-No Drugs or Discrimination

18+ do actually permit almost ALL... i see 16+ is more adapting in this case

The first refers to any vistual content in the beatmap.

The second refers to audio content.

Both of them are fine imo (as in not contradicting)

Well, it should be corrected, at least. Bad language max rating is somewhat like C or D in CERO rating ( means from 15+ to 18-), 18+ is like a Z and means MUCH gore, MUCH blood and MUCH Oscenities.
I'm using CERO because of many Nosense rating by ESRB and PEGI.

But actually, 18+ should be 16+, and plus, 16+ is allowing partial nudity, some blood and maybe a little bit of graphical gore (much like 999)

wouldn't it make much more sense if the rule/guideline applies to both?

I'll just go ahead with nuking this. Contradictions should be brought up in the relevant topics, not a new one. If there isn't a topic for a specific rule, feel free to start one.