also unvote so there's no hammer before he responds

So. much. text.

tl;dr - Mashley is getting lynched because there can't be two polices?

How about checkin' his insanity instead of lynching him? I'm just sayin'.

Unvote.

I do not want to risk lynching a possible cop.
Mashley got a guilty result on Rantai so I'll place my vote on him.
Vote: Rantai.

If Rantai turns out to be innocent then Mashley is either lying or he is an insane cop.

What do you guys think ?

LunaticMara wrote:

So. much. text.

tl;dr - Mashley is getting lynched because there can't be two polices?

How about checkin' his insanity instead of lynching him? I'm just sayin'.

And just how do you propose we check that?

He investigates himself. Gets "guilty". OK that means he's either random or insane. Or lying and is really mafia.
He investigates himself. Gets "not guilty". That means sane. Or lying and mafia.

No one has claimed to be a motivator that targeted Mashley yet, so I'm operating under the assumption that he's lying about this whole deal.

How about FisHie's idea?

Of course, if there is no other way - I'll vote him.

Why is the motivator hiding, if there is one ?
I don't get it.
In my opinion we should try to figure out Mashley's situation first before we lynch him.

This reminds me of what happened to Salvage.

LunaticMara wrote:

How about FisHie's idea?

Of course, if there is no other way - I'll vote him.

Wojjan wrote:

The main problem with that is that it's not a guarantee at all. If Mash is scum and just listed three townies with random results to gun for some mislynches the flip of a townie that's either guilty or inno won't pronounce the others as inno or guilty scum. If we go for Mash and maybe get his sanity at least we can lynch depending on that. Otherwise if he flips cop I'm pretty sure Phoenix won't be a RANDOM cop, so we can lynch either or based on an educated guess.

EDIT: fixed the quote order

So you guys don't think that we need a cop ?

The problem with calling out random townies to be guilty or not, is that he have pulled two guilties already. If he was really trying to fool us as a cop if he was a mafia, this is rather risky move and mafia hates taking risks. Mashley have taken two risky moves as a maifa so far, which were the cop claim on D2 for no apperant reason + not knowing if there is a cop or not. 2) he called out a motivator and another guilty result.

I am actually much more confident in my vote on Mash now that the Motivator is still not around. pies why didn't you address that at all in your analysispost?

While we wait for Mashley to flip and tell us who is scum out of Lybydose, Wojjan and Rantai, let's see what else we can figure out.

I think LadySuburu is confirmed town with that bulletproof business (and when he's this quiet early on he's usually town.) Rolled is probably town as well, as that explains the two attempted night kills N1, and then only one N2. KRZY, have you been using your ability to talk to people? If he has someone can probably verify him as well, unless they're actually scumbuddies or something (unlikely IMO).

On the flip side nobody strikes me as obvscum at the moment (except possibly Mashley). I would also FoS foulcoon and fishie, for trying to protect Mashley and also for both voting Salvage day 1. But that can wait until we're finished dealing with Mashley's role and results.

Wojjan wrote:

I am actually much more confident in my vote on Mash now that the Motivator is still not around. pies why didn't you address that at all in your analysispost?

oh oops, I had an explanation for that but closed the window before I posted it, and then forgot to put it = =

Perhaps a weak motivator acts 1.5 days in advance, and he targets during the day. When Lilac and I put a motivator, he acted one day in advance. Perhaps the "weak" was because it took longer.

But weak means they can't target a mafia without dying, not a delay in action.

Unless we're using non standard modifiers now.

From memory, Motivators actually don't have delays. I originally planned it not to have a delay but we put one in for some strange reason.

Goddamnit.

akrolsmir wrote:

(and when he's this quiet early on he's usually town.)

I wouldn't believe any metagaming inference as a guarantee for townieness. It's more likely for scum to fake their moves as meta-town than town to fake their moves as meta-scum.

pieguy wrote:

Perhaps a weak motivator acts 1.5 days in advance, and he targets during the day. When Lilac and I put a motivator, he acted one day in advance. Perhaps the "weak" was because it took longer.

A sound explanation, although a delay doesn't sound like a sign of weakness. Late, slow or molasses would have fit better.
Plus, DxS died, D1, by a lynch, and his/her power shows up N2 is damn weird of a case.

Back to Swift, We can see he really had a cop power so there's still an issue about two cops. Most likely the uncertainty of his role was because of the way he died or something.
Oh wait. That's how they die in Persona 4, how could I not have noticed.
So we still have the dillemma of 3 results. Who to kill? or something.

VOTE COUNT:
Mashley (5) - Wojjan, Rantai, akrolsmir, KRZY, tastelikecoke
Lybydose (1) - pieguy1372
Rantai (1) - fishie

Not Voting (8) - LunaticMara, Lilac, Rolled, Mashley, foulcoon, bmin11, LadySuburu, Lybydose
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still looking for replacement for Rolled

pieguy if you don't move your vote from lybydose to rantai, I'm going to kill you tonight

oh and vote: Rantai

and if pieguy does move it, I'm going to kill you KRZY

it'd be hard for you to kill pieguy if you have Rolled's role, considering he already failed to killed mafia on night one.

or so he claimed

I'm well aware of everything rolled said thx

So you want Rantai dead, but you're not considering shooting him... coupled with the fact that there's only been one kill last night, I get the feeling that you're lying to us now about still being able to nk.

More importantly, you think lynching Mashley is a bad idea?

oh no, I think lynching mashley is a great idea for mafia

so you go right ahead and do that akrolsmir

... care to explain why?

no

game just got significantly more interesting lol

Oh welcome Two.

Already trying to coerce people into voting me... (what for again?)

cause you already had one vote

Ahh ok.

What's your opinion on this whole sane/cop/Mashley situation?

Uh, welcome Two.
...

Two wrote:

no

unless you explain any of your logic, nothing about your actions will help town, whether you are confirmed town or not.

I am inherently a boon to town

you on the otherhand are not

and it's made worse by you voting for a cop gj

and there goes Two being reasonable as always.

Seriously though, if you think Mashley is a legitimate cop in spite of the evidence against that, explaining why is more likely to get us to agree with you than threatening us.

This isn't really going anywhere.. :/

Also some people need a prod, it seems.

Lol Two, you so crazy. (thanks though)

akrolsmir wrote:

Seriously though, if you think Mashley is a legitimate cop in spite of the evidence against that, explaining why is more likely to get us to agree with you than threatening us.

I don't have to provide evidence

if you were named as guilty and don't roleclaim, you are guilty

Mashley wrote:

Lol Two, you so crazy. (thanks though)

ssssssssssssssssssscummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Two is amazing.

I'm just sayin'.

I'm targeting Two tonight.

If I end up dead, you know what that means.

KRZY wrote:

I'm targeting Two tonight.

If I end up dead, you know what that means.

It means the mafia killed Two.

or

Two wrote:

and if pieguy does move it, I'm going to kill you KRZY

or

Two is mafia.

So I guess it could be anything.

mod: votecount please?

Now that I think about it more, assuming a cop is insane is not such a good idea IMO. There's 15 people left, of which I can assume 5/19 mafia at most, so we're at 5/10. If we mislynch, we'll have 4/7 two days from now, and if not we'll have 3/8 two days from now and one confirmed town.

Meanwhile, if we mislynch Lyby we'll be at 3/6 three days from now, and if not we'll be at 4/9 one day from now and have two confirmed town. Looking at these options, the situation of assuming Mashley is sane seems safer IMO.

I just want to make sure I don't hammer Rantai, seeing as I think he has the most votes by a mile anyway.

uh you have no chance of doing that

the vote count should be me fishie and you voting for mafia and wojjan rantai tastelikecoke krzy and someone else voting for cop

Oh lmao, I got Rantai confused with Mashley. Sorry

unvote, vote Rantai

Two wrote:

the vote count should be me fishie and you voting for mafia and wojjan rantai tastelikecoke krzy and someone else voting for cop

ooooh scumpaint me harder
yessss right there that's the spot

uh that was directed at lybydose but nice projection

I kinda lost track. So are you saying Mashley is a genuine cop who got a genuine motivation last night?
Don't you find that a little bit unlikely?

oh but then insane or whatever sure slap a sanity on it

Two wrote:

I don't have to provide evidence

if you were named as guilty and don't roleclaim, you are guilty

That... is evidence. Or at least some reasoning on your part, it does help me make a decision.

The last time you persuaded everyone to vote for Rantai it didn't work out so well for us... but I guess I'll listen to you this time. unvote, vote: Rantai. Now it's 4-4 for Mashley and Rantai.

If he flips town, I won't know whether to lynch you, Lybydose or Mashley.

By that token you're saying Wojjan is scum too? (both got a guilty)

As I've said before a mislynch here is going to end up in wasting another day trying to verify his sanity. If you really want to take a shot at his sanity via lynch, voting Lybydose makes much more sense seeing as (I assume others may think this too) he is possibly insane.

But ugh you guys are way too easily swayed, Roleclaim: Battle Tactician

Looking at my role pm I'm very clearly Welkin Gunther (Valkyria Chronicles) and can tell someone to redirect their action at someone else because I am a brilliant leader.

Extra info, back on day 2 (N1) I redirect adam to LS. When LS claimed to be hit and Swift claimed adam was mafia, that was more than enough evidence to not question his results (I think I hinted about my night action somewhere). Last night I redirected Wojjan to bmin.

the actions you claim to have done are solely involved with mafia and suspected mafia, you know

If he flips town, I won't know whether to lynch you, Lybydose or Mashley.

I laughed

I would really like to lynch pieguy, who is game?

That was my intention when targeting, Two.

I want to redirect a Mafia night kill back at them.

it's convenient regardless

I understand your suspicion there, I got lucky redirecting the night kill on my first try.

But I will appeal with you here. If Mashley is a cop, then I know for certain that he is not sane.

Reiterating my last post, doesn't it make much more sense to lynch Lybydose if we're going to verify the results? Because if I get lynched and flip town we're no closer to figuring out who is what. People will be suspicious of you for a mislynch and Mashley will still be unverified as insane or not a cop. Not to mention that hitting 1 town 2 mafia in a row is much less likely than hitting 1 mafia and 2 town.

Rantai wrote:

Reiterating my last post, doesn't it make much more sense to lynch Lybydose if we're going to verify the results? Because if I get lynched and flip town we're no closer to figuring out who is what. People will be suspicious of you for a mislynch and Mashley will still be unverified as insane or not a cop.

No because then you'll just lynch me and I'll flip town and we'll be no closer to figuring out who is what. It works both ways you know.

...ookay, now I think I should rethink some things again. Mashley called out Wojjan and Rantai, who have both roleclaimed quite powerful roles. I definitely think Lybydose should roleclaim, because as it is the fact that Wojjan and Rantai both had something makes it more likely that Mashley was insane and they're telling the truth. Plus, Rantai's night action explains why he was so quick on the draw D2 (his first post and the second vote on adam). It's a bit hard to set something like that up if you're mafia because you have no way of knowing if that role already exists in the game or not, whereas if it is your role you know you're it.

However, meta plus this

Very rarely, a Redirector will, instead of redirecting all Night actions that targeted a specific player, redirect all Night actions performed by a specific player. This role is rare enough that there is no unique name given to this role.

(from mafiawiki redirector article)
further adds to the possibility that Rantai is actually mafia. If there were 5 mafia, having two cops would make quite a bit of sense. Plus, they could have set it up easily so that they targeted LS anyway and claimed that. There's also at best a 1/4 chance of adam actually being the one who performed the kill, and I assume it works this way because otherwise it would be an OP role for finding out who the mafia is (if targeted and the person redirected towards dies, that person is mafia).

I'm willing to say that Two is practically a confirmed town because Mashley killed someone N1, told everyone what his role was, and then only one person died N2, which fits with his role. If we suddenly get 2 kills per night again, though, we'll know something wrong. If we eliminate all mafia (I assume 5) and the game is still going on, then he might be a SK who didn't kill anyone the whole game, but that would be an insane strategy to do as SK so I'll disregard that for now.

A Mashley lynch is not so good because we'll mislynch at most one anyway, and we'll probably end up losing someone less powerful than a cop. For now, I think Lybydose should roleclaim, and if we do decide that Mashley is more likely to be sane, a Wojjan lynch would be better than a Rantai lynch due to the roles they claimed (but if he's mafia, we'll lynch Rantai anyway).

For now, I honestly have no idea whether Mashley is more likely to be sane or insane, but IMO Lybydose was acting rather suspicious and Rantai and Wojjan both have roleclaims, and there was already a cop, so it all adds up if he were insane as well. I'm not really used to dealing with insane cops though, and I'm bad at getting leads on players in big games. >.<//

Then again, we haven't had an insane cop yet, and it would be funny if Phoenix Wright of all people was insane...but I'm playing WIFOM with the mod now so I'll stop that

massclaim gogogo

what the hell IS Wojjan's role anyway? "oneshot timepause roleblocker", followed by "disregard that I confused another game"

I might as well claim because I have the most useless and boring role possible anyway. I mean there's no incentive for me to really DO anything.

I am a Player in the Reapers' Game. That's right, I chose Subarashiki Kono Sekai (The World Ends With You). I just have to survive until endgame.

if you want to win this we need to take a hard stance on this right now:

Two: Vigilante
Rantai: Redirector
Lybydose: Survivor
Mashley: Cop
Wojjan: ???
pieguy1372: ???
LunaticMara: ???
fishie: ???
Lilac: ???
foulcoon: ???
akrolsmir: ???
tastelikecoke: ???
KRZY: ???
bmin11: ???
LadySuburu: ???

the hard stance will be: roleclaim or be lynched

oh and for full disclosure I haven't read this thread at all~

I guess I'll start... roleclaim: Danmaku Dodger

My three games were Touhou 6, 7, and 8 (EoSD, PCB, and IN). I got Touhou 6 (Embodiment of Scarlet Devil). Apparently, I made it through EoSD with a bomb left, so when anyone tries to kill me during the night, I'll automatically deathbomb and save myself from all kill attempts on me that night.

Two: Vigilante
Rantai: Redirector
Lybydose: Survivor
Mashley: Cop
pieguy1372: Bomb
Wojjan: Roleblocker
LunaticMara: ???
fishie: ???
Lilac: ???
foulcoon: ???
akrolsmir: ???
tastelikecoke: ???
KRZY: ???
bmin11: ???
LadySuburu: ???

unvote, vote: akrolsmir for now

he lurked twice and left so you might want to vote for him too until he claims

or forever since he won't and is mafia

what about you bmin

another hit and run

I don't know what this Mass Claim can bring us to, but atleast it would spice up the game (I was on tl;dr mood most of the time)

Role Claim: Time Manipulator. Hi, my name is Tim from the game Braid. I can Manipulate the time so we can head back to the previous day (ex: activated on N3 -> back to D2). I win with town as a townie side.

FoS Wojjan because I would imagine I would be a threat to your Time Factory.

Two: Vigilante
Rantai: Redirector
Lybydose: Survivor
Mashley: Cop
pieguy1372: Bomb
Wojjan: Roleblocker
bmin11: Time Manipulator
LunaticMara: ???
fishie: ???
Lilac: ???
foulcoon: ???
akrolsmir: ???
tastelikecoke: ???
KRZY: ???
LadySuburu: ???

8 left

... I read this, and went to my inbox so that I could quote my rolename and paraphrase the flavor.

Anyways, Post-Apocalyptic Arms Enthusiast. Backfire had Fallout as his number one choice. Anyways, living after nuclear war, I have a collection of guns that I'll use to ensure my own survival. I win with town, but I get suspicious of anyone who approaches me and shoot them first. Simply put, paranoid gun owner.

I think we should lynch Lybydose, given that survivor would be a safe claim for Mafia, we don't lose much if he was telling the truth, and it'll help confirm Mashley's sanity either way so we know what to do with Rantai and Wojjan.

wrong, lynching lybydose is a mafia suggestion

Two: Vigilante
Rantai: Redirector
Lybydose: Survivor
Mashley: Cop
pieguy1372: Bomb
Wojjan: Roleblocker
bmin11: Time Manipulator
akrolsmir: Paranoid Gun Owner
LunaticMara: ???
fishie: ???
Lilac: ???
foulcoon: ???
tastelikecoke: ???
KRZY: ???
LadySuburu: ???

7 left

Two wrote:

wrong, lynching lybydose is a mafia suggestion

Do enlighten me...?

not now

bmin11 wrote:

Role Claim: Time Manipulator. Hi, my name is Tim from the game Braid. I can Manipulate the time so we can head back to the previous day (ex: activated on N3 -> back to D2). I win with town as a townie side.

wait what how is this anything other than the most overpowered role ever (except maybe Cultafia)

Alright, I just woke up.

The game that I chose was Frogger.
Role Claim: Obstacle Dodger.
Should be quite self-explanatory.

KRZY claimed to be a team recruiter earlier in the game.

Right, because "obstacle dodger" is completely self-explanatory. We now know exactly what you are capable of doing. Thanks.

fishie wrote:

Alright, I just woke up.

The game that I chose was Frogger.
Role Claim: Obstacle Dodger.
Should be quite self-explanatory.

explain

I can "dodge" possible night actions targeted to me by hopping on other players.

So you're a hider? Do you die if you hide behind (hop on) mafia?

this is a hider btw: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Hider

Two: Vigilante
Rantai: Redirector
Lybydose: Survivor
Mashley: Cop
pieguy1372: Bomb
Wojjan: Roleblocker
bmin11: Time Manipulator
akrolsmir: Paranoid Gun Owner
fishie: Hider
LunaticMara: ???
Lilac: ???
foulcoon: ???
tastelikecoke: ???
KRZY: ???
LadySuburu: ???

unvote, vote Lilac

6 left

I don't die if I target a mafia, I think.
But the night actions targeted at the player who I hopped on apply to me too.

Two: Vigilante
Rantai: Redirector
Lybydose: Survivor
Mashley: Cop
pieguy1372: Bomb
Wojjan: Roleblocker
bmin11: Time Manipulator
akrolsmir: Paranoid Gun Owner
fishie: Hider
KRZY: Neighborizer
LunaticMara: ???
Lilac: ???
foulcoon: ???
tastelikecoke: ???
LadySuburu: ???

5 left*

Clarifying that I cannot target another player if I have targeted a player and earned chatting privileges with him on a previous night. I can only target another player again when my target dies.

Clearing some stuff up:

KRZY is weak, for sure. Also, I'm not sure if he's a full neighborizer, or he can just talk with one person per day, but I read his claim as the latter. Ninja'd.

pieguy didn't claim he was a bomb, but that he had a bomb. He said that it protected him from one nk, much like a touhou bomb would (I think, I've never actually played) so I read that as one-shot bulletproof.

Mashley's cop is obviously of unknown sanity.

Wojjan's roleblock is one-shot IIRC.

LunaticMara, Lilac, foulcoon, tastelikecoke, LadySuburu

what are your roles

What is my role indeed?

I'd like to hold off on this until the next day. Sorry about that, I promise I'll tell though! ^_^

vote for lilac

Solely because I still want my conditional power to hold on until tomorrow.

yes, I don't care if your ability is to protect everyone from nightkills

your ability isn't worth not claiming

Vote Two
I am loving how quickly everyone decides that because one person wants you to roleclaim you automatically must.

this is a clear path to town victory

anyone standing in the way is a complete moron or is mafia

Don't even try that shit again.

you mean like in werewolf?

it actually was a 100% town win until I got modkilled

there is no downside to a massclaim with this many people alive unless there's a role which targets certain other roles to win over both factions (which is terrible)

it's real tempting to just lynch you mashley but I'm going to stick to winning thanks

also if anyone isn't going to be available or might not be available before the day ends (less than 24 hours) you should vote for wojjan now

since people are going to be annoying and ask why, I'll waste my time explaining it

1. bmin is a time reverser

2. wojjan is a roleblocker

3. wojjan was named as guilty

4. 2+2=vote for wojjan

VOTE COUNT:
Mashley (4) - Wojjan, Rantai, KRZY, tastelikecoke
Rantai (3) - fishie, pieguy1372, akrolsmir
Lilac (1) - Two
Two (1) - Mashley

Not Voting (6) - LunaticMara, Lilac, foulcoon, bmin11, LadySuburu, Lybydose
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DEADLINE IS IN AROUND 17 HOURS

bmin11 wrote:

I don't know what this Mass Claim can bring us to, but atleast it would spice up the game (I was on tl;dr mood most of the time)

Role Claim: Time Manipulator. Hi, my name is Tim from the game Braid. I can Manipulate the time so we can head back to the previous day (ex: activated on N3 -> back to D2). I win with town as a townie side.

FoS Wojjan because I would imagine I would be a threat to your Time Factory.

omg let me lol for a second

I was told that Tim is around but I don't know who it is. I win with town but only if he is dead so that makes me kinda townie lyncher? But not really because he just has to be dead.

I also have a oneshot kill that has to target you or it kills me instead for the occasion.

didn't confuse jack would you really think I was that shabby.

bmin11 wrote:

I don't know what this Mass Claim can bring us to, but atleast it would spice up the game (I was on tl;dr mood most of the time)

Role Claim: Time Manipulator. Hi, my name is Tim from the game Braid. I can Manipulate the time so we can head back to the previous day (ex: activated on N3 -> back to D2). I win with town as a townie side.

FoS Wojjan because I would imagine I would be a threat to your Time Factory.

Seriously? If when you reverse time the people who died/were lynched came back to life, couldn't you have used it to bring Swift back? Just wondering.

Well what do you know. NoHItter just sent me a PM that my example was wrong. If I use my action on N3, we will be back to D3. This is so useless I now ._. and my action is a one-shot ability for obvious reason.

foulcoon wrote:

Seriously? If when you reverse time the people who died/were lynched came back to life, couldn't you have used it to bring Swift back? Just wondering.

I was confused with my ability during that time. My first thought was "N3 -> D3", but after talking with NoHItter now I thought it's "N3 -> D2". Unfortunately, NoHItter corrected me again after I roleclaimed. Now I fully understand that it's "N3 -> D3".

o.o that practically confirms bmin11 as town because there would be no other reason to not reveal roles until the next day.

He could be lying, but that's the only reason I can think for putting something like that when no one does normally.

pieguy1372 wrote:

o.o that practically confirms bmin11 as town because there would be no other reason to not reveal roles until the next day.

I don't think he used his role anyways, considering we would be back on D2 now with our cop still alive. Saying this makes look like you're grasping, and also makes you and bmin both look either stupid or suspicious.