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Hatsune Miku - Cardioid

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Topic Starter
Lanttu
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on 9. marraskuuta 2010 at 19:03:53

Artist: Hatsune Miku
Title: Cardioid
Tags: DATEKEN vocaloid append soft
BPM: 124
Filesize: 4021kb
Play Time: 01:46
Difficulties Available:
  1. Hard (4,39 stars, 156 notes)
  2. Normal (2,2 stars, 89 notes)
Download: Hatsune Miku - Cardioid
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
Kardia + Eidos
Syncronization + Sympathy
Connection + Communion
You + I
Garven
[General]
The soft hit sounds are really loud compared to the song. Maybe lower the a bit? I can hardly hear the vocals over them.
The kiai with the light colors on a white background hurts my eyes a bit. :/

[SB]
Ooo, SB is <3 Literally!

[Normal]
Overall, kind of hard for the easiest of the set, but it's a good diff.
01:09:708 (1) - Maybe during this section, position the beats away from the storyboarded lyrics instead of tracing the heart? If anything, the one I mentioned is the worst offender.
01:30:998 (1) - You can't have the start and end point of a slider covering itself up - if someone doesn't have snaking sliders, they won't know which direction to go. Also, please take the whistle off the sliderslide. It sounds awful. Especially when you take the time to silence the slider sound. .. and after I type all of that, I finally noticed the storyboard arrow. Maybe make it a bit more visible.
01:46:482 (1) - Remove the whistle from this one too, please.

[Hard]
00:38:014 (3,1) - This jump was kind of unexpected to me. *shrug* It's not bad, though.
01:19:385 (1) - Scoot this left one grid
Same remove whistle from sliderslide from Normal.

Nice set. Just wish the hit sounds weren't so over-powering compared to the song.
Feno_old
THIS IS GENIOUS!

At the overlapping heart sliders,make the storyboarding arrow more obvious. It's an absolutely brilliant idea,but yeah. Make it more apparent or it's not gonna be that helpful.

I didn't find any other problems with it. Great work.

#star
Topic Starter
Lanttu

Garven wrote:

[General]
The soft hit sounds are really loud compared to the song. Maybe lower the a bit? I can hardly hear the vocals over them.
The kiai with the light colors on a white background hurts my eyes a bit. :/ Fixed~
[SB]
Ooo, SB is <3 Literally! ~<3 ^^

[Normal]
Overall, kind of hard for the easiest of the set, but it's a good diff.
01:09:708 (1) - Maybe during this section, position the beats away from the storyboarded lyrics instead of tracing the heart? If anything, the one I mentioned is the worst offender. I was having so much problems with this part, I couldn't come up with anything neat. ;~; I don't know if it's any better know but I did something.
01:30:998 (1) - You can't have the start and end point of a slider covering itself up - if someone doesn't have snaking sliders, they won't know which direction to go. Also, please take the whistle off the sliderslide. It sounds awful. Especially when you take the time to silence the slider sound. .. and after I type all of that, I finally noticed the storyboard arrow. Maybe make it a bit more visible. Aww, I try to make it better tomorrow. ^^; *too tired to storyboard/photoshop this evening*
01:46:482 (1) - Remove the whistle from this one too, please. Sure~

[Hard]
00:38:014 (3,1) - This jump was kind of unexpected to me. *shrug* It's not bad, though. Yeah I didn't like it too much anyways, changed. XD
01:19:385 (1) - Scoot this left one grid OK~
Same remove whistle from sliderslide from Normal. OK~

Feno wrote:

THIS IS GENIOUS! ;//w//;

At the overlapping heart sliders,make the storyboarding arrow more obvious. It's an absolutely brilliant idea,but yeah. Make it more apparent or it's not gonna be that helpful. Sure, tomorrow~
Thanks both of you~♥ ♥ ^^
roflninja
Hi
hitsounds seem a bit loud for the song imo

Thats all i can comment on, great map
Sakura
[osz File Scan!]
Fine

[Normal]
01:30:998 (1) - The start and end points of this slider are overlapping that's unrankable
01:46:482 (1) - ^

[Hard]
01:30:998 (2) - Same comment for the one on [Normal]
01:46:482 (1) - Same comment for the one on [Normal]

ehh that was fast, no problems but... those sliders are a BIG problem so you want to fix that, +star
Topic Starter
Lanttu

Sakura301 wrote:

[osz File Scan!]
Fine

[Normal]
01:30:998 (1) - The start and end points of this slider are overlapping that's unrankable
01:46:482 (1) - ^

[Hard]
01:30:998 (2) - Same comment for the one on [Normal]
01:46:482 (1) - Same comment for the one on [Normal]

ehh that was fast, no problems but... those sliders are a BIG problem so you want to fix that, +star
Bu-bu-but there are other maps with sliders like that + warning arrow. ;_; And those are my favourite part of this mapset, I won't change them unless a bat tells me to. *bitter tears*

Also, thanks roflninja, I lowered the hitsounds even more.
Krisom

Lanttu wrote:

Bu-bu-but there are other maps with sliders like that + warning arrow. ;_; And those are my favourite part of this mapset, I won't change them unless a bat tells me to. *bitter tears*
Let's see...
Hmmm
This doesn't feels intuitive, I mean, the arrow is kinda big, so a player could think it's just part of the SB. Try using another kind of arrow. hmmm, My photoshop skills suck but something brighter and tiny like THIS would be better imo.
Notice that the arrow is directly over the slider curve, and the color is brighter than the sb., so it really stands out.

I'll mod this soon, please change the warning arrow so that it stands out more. Oh, don't kudosu this, as I'm just clarifying what Sakura301 said. Kudosu her if you only apply this.



EDIT:
Here's the mod post, as requested on queue.

[General]
The hitcircle overlay is kinda big, compared to the sliders, so it feels weird when a slider shows up

[Normal]
You may want to reduce the OD and HPDrain rate a bit!
The big spacing and """fast""" sliderspeed (for a normal imo) alredy make this kinda hard for the easiest diff. So please consider reducing the OD and HPDrainRate a bit.
Nice.

[Hard]
01:03:901 - 01:19:385. This section has a big problem. Did you play this? If you 300 all the circles here, when the player reaches 01:19:385 the HP is halved. A) reduce HP drain rate. B) add more circles.

Uhhh, I don't know what I feel towards the hitsounding here. It'd be kinda hard to come up with a pattern, but the hitsounds still feel kinda random sometimes to me... Hmmm, just ignore me, but if you decide to try anthing else with the hitsounds, please PM me and I'll recheck asap.


That's all, sweet and sensitive map. Good job!!
Topic Starter
Lanttu

Krisom wrote:

This doesn't feels intuitive, I mean, the arrow is kinda big, so a player could think it's just part of the SB. Try using another kind of arrow. hmmm, My photoshop skills suck but something brighter and tiny like THIS would be better imo.
Notice that the arrow is directly over the slider curve, and the color is brighter than the sb., so it really stands out. Hmm, I like that desing but No way I'm using color like that. XD I try to come up with something bright and clear for "tomorrow" (I should be sleeping already. OTL)

[General]
The hitcircle overlay is kinda big, compared to the sliders, so it feels weird when a slider shows up I'll edit this also when I do the arrow.

[Normal]
You may want to reduce the OD and HPDrain rate a bit!
The big spacing and """fast""" sliderspeed (for a normal imo) alredy make this kinda hard for the easiest diff. So please consider reducing the OD and HPDrainRate a bit. Fixed~
Nice.

[Hard]
01:03:901 - 01:19:385. This section has a big problem. Did you play this? If you 300 all the circles here, when the player reaches 01:19:385 the HP is halved. A) reduce HP drain rate. B) add more circles. Ohh, I didn't notice that. HP Drain reduced.

Uhhh, I don't know what I feel towards the hitsounding here. It'd be kinda hard to come up with a pattern, but the hitsounds still feel kinda random sometimes to me... Hmmm, just ignore me, but if you decide to try anthing else with the hitsounds, please PM me and I'll recheck asap. Ahhh, hitsounds, my biggest enemy. ;_; I don't think I can come up with anything else, but if I do then sure, I'll send a PM.

That's all, sweet and sensitive map. Good job!!
Thank you~ ^^
Mianki
Hitsound ehdotuksia vaan :P. Sit tos SB arrowis ei kyl pahemmin mun mielest oo vikaa. Jos haluat korostaa sitä enemmän nii värii vois tummentaa.

Normal:

00:18:659 (3) Whistle
00:22:046 (2) Whistle vaan ekaan reverse arrowiin ja sit loppuun
00:26:401 (3) Whistle
00:30:272 (2) ^ sliderin loppuun
00:51:804 (1) ^
01:28:095 (3) ^

Hard:

00:18:659 (5) Whistle
00:22:530 (5.7) ^
00:26:401 (5) ^
00:30:272 (5) ^
00:38:740 (1.4) ^
00:49:385 (2) ^

Kiva mappi, star~
Topic Starter
Lanttu

Mianki wrote:

Hitsound ehdotuksia vaan :P. Sit tos SB arrowis ei kyl pahemmin mun mielest oo vikaa. Jos haluat korostaa sitä enemmän nii värii vois tummentaa.

Normal:

00:18:659 (3) Whistle
00:22:046 (2) Whistle vaan ekaan reverse arrowiin ja sit loppuun
00:26:401 (3) Whistle
00:30:272 (2) ^ sliderin loppuun
00:51:804 (1) ^
01:28:095 (3) ^

Hard:

00:18:659 (5) Whistle
00:22:530 (5.7) ^
00:26:401 (5) ^
00:30:272 (5) ^
00:38:740 (1.4) ^
00:49:385 (2) ^

Kiva mappi, star~
OK kaikkiin, kiitos~ ^^
Rukario
I couldn't find anything. Really pretty map and Awesome SB
Star~ + KDStar~
Topic Starter
Lanttu

Rukarioman wrote:

I couldn't find anything. Really pretty map and Awesome SB
Star~ + KDStar~
Omg, thank you~♥ ;u;
Zetsubou Sensei
Such a nice song...

[Normal]
Add Kiai Time to the Timing Section at 01:19:627
There are some spacing problems...Check AIMOD

[Hard]
^ Do the same thing for the Kiai Time

Its a great map!...Also I made a difficulty...If you want to use it feel free to :)

~STAR!!!

Download: Hatsune Miku - Cardioid (Lanttu) [Zetsubou Sensei's Normal].osu
Topic Starter
Lanttu

Zetsubou Sensei wrote:

Such a nice song...

[Normal]
Add Kiai Time to the Timing Section at 01:19:627 Light colors and white background are not good with kiai. ;_;
There are some spacing problems...Check AIMOD Little jumps, I hope they're OK like that. ;w;

[Hard]
^ Do the same thing for the Kiai Time ^

Its a great map!...Also I made a difficulty...If you want to use it feel free to :)
Oh, thanks~ ^^
Leorda
Oi

[Skin]
1) You have color the star2, because star2 is really hard to see
2) No fail-background?

[Normal]
00:49:869 (2) - Move 1 grid up?
00:57:127 (2,3) - Spacing error

[Zetsubou Sensei's Normal]
Kiai time is too bright O.O

01:23:982 (4,5) - Spacing error
01:30:998 (1) - Clap at start is bad, IMO

[Hard]
00:44:304 (7) - New combo?
00:45:272 (1) - Remove new combo?

You are genious!
STAR
banvi
Hi :3
General
No Source? add "Vocaloid2" to Source?
Normal
00:59:788 (2,3) 1 grid up (grid lv3)
Zetsubou Sensei's
00:20:353 (4) 1 grid left
01:23:740 (3) 1 grid up
Hard
okay

nice & pretty :)
star~
Krisom

banvi wrote:

General
No Source? add "Vocaloid2" to Source?
Or you may add "DATEKEN" as the source too, as he's the creator, your choice (No kudosu for this please)
EDIT: Also, add "Append" and "Soft" either to the artist or to the tags, as this was created using Miku's Soft Append.
Zetsubou Sensei

Leorda wrote:

[Zetsubou Sensei's Normal]
Kiai time is too bright O.O I think it's fine.
01:23:982 (4,5) - Spacing error Fixed.
01:30:998 (1) - Clap at start is bad, IMO Fixed.
[quote="banvi"]
Zetsubou Sensei's
00:20:353 (4) 1 grid left Fixed.
quote]

Thanks.

Download: Hatsune Miku - Cardioid (Lanttu) [Zetsubou Sensei's Normal].osu
Topic Starter
Lanttu
Everything fixed, except source and heart2. I think they're both fine the way they are now. ^^;
kuyukiP
I love this song, the storyboard and just the beatmap itself is amazing <3 Keep up the good work~ star~
wmfchris
lol I thought Cardioid is defined as r=1+cos x

[hard]
0:17:449 (1,2,3,4,5) spacing of (1,2,3) different from (3,4)? though acceptable for me
1:00:756 (5,6) left 1 grid
1:05:837 (1,2,1,2...) just a suggestion: put some whistle, e.g. whistle for every (1)?
1:30:998 (2) nice but too flat for this~ make a rounder one? :3
1:46:482 (1) ^

[normal]
0:19:627 (2,4) right 1 grid
1:05:837 (1,2,1,2,...) refer to hard
Cardioid sliders refer to hard

very nice SB and song~
star^2
Topic Starter
Lanttu
[quote="wmfchris"]lol I thought Cardioid is defined as r=1+cos x Lol I suck at maths, no idea about that. X'D Just copied the suff in description from wikipedia~

[hard]
0:17:449 (1,2,3,4,5) spacing of (1,2,3) different from (3,4)? though acceptable for me Just for symmetry. :3
1:00:756 (5,6) left 1 grid Bu-but it breaks symmetry if I move 5 and I can't move 6 alone. ;3;
1:05:837 (1,2,1,2...) just a suggestion: put some whistle, e.g. whistle for every (1)? I like that, sure. ^^
1:30:998 (2) nice but too flat for this~ make a rounder one? :3 Sob I know but then I'd have to redo the storyboard arrow and that was horrible to do. ;_;
1:46:482 (1) ^

[normal]
0:19:627 (2,4) right 1 grid You're probably referring to Zatsubou's diff because I have no notes there~
1:05:837 (1,2,1,2,...) refer to hard Yup~
Cardioid sliders refer to hard ;___;

very nice SB and song~
And a kudosu star, thank you very much<3 ;~;
Jinxy
No spinners in every difficulty? Well, I don't really mind, but kinda weird.


[Zetsubou]
01:33:175 (3,4) - Newb killer. The second you put beats 1/4 apart on a Normal, it's bad for newbies. Two repeat sliders so close on the map itself is bad, too.
There are others that are like ^, you should fix them.
Selee
;)
wring
star~ ;)
Kite
Hey~
Nice storyboard ^^

SPOILER
Suggestions~

[Overall]
Add a kiai seciton? or at least more kiai fountains :3

[Normal]
00:35:111 (3,4) - Overlapping is ugly D:
01:41:643 (5) - remove return
01:42:853 (1,2,3) - place on previous white tick
01:44:062 - You could add an additional beat here

[Zetsubou]
00:23:861 (2,3) - turn this into a slider because of 1/4 in normal
01:03:659 (3,4,5) - spacing is irritating

[Hard]
Okay~~
Zetsubou Sensei
Hey...I fixed up some stuff...Here ya go =3

Download: Hatsune Miku - Cardioid (Lanttu) [Zetsubou Sensei's Normal].osu
FireballFlame
Awesome! This map really feels classy :D
And the song is very nice.

Only one thing: the spacing change @1:03:659 on Zetsubou Sensei's Normal isn't good, since the distance in time stays the same.
Alace
It`s really a nice mapset
timing is really off, (BPM is a bit too fast)
i can`t time it well, i may look for some timing helps
FireballFlame

Alace wrote:

timing is really off, (BPM is a bit too fast)
i can`t time it well, i may look for some timing helps
Now that you mention it, yeah.

I looked into it, and the tempo (124 bpm) is actually correct. However, starting from the piano chord at 01:18, everything is delayed about 20ms, so a new timing section is needed there.

Change the offset of the very first section to 17.465 and add a new one with the following settings:

Topic Starter
Lanttu

FireballFlame wrote:

Alace wrote:

timing is really off, (BPM is a bit too fast)
i can`t time it well, i may look for some timing helps
Now that you mention it, yeah.

I looked into it, and the tempo (124 bpm) is actually correct. However, starting from the piano chord at 01:18, everything is delayed about 20ms, so a new timing section is needed there.

Change the offset of the very first section to 17.465 and add a new one with the following settings
Thank you so much<3 ;_; Fixed~
FireballFlame
You set the offset for the new section to 77.725 instead of 77.485 - was that intentional? The metronome is off ;)
Topic Starter
Lanttu

FireballFlame wrote:

You set the offset for the new section to 77.725 instead of 77.485 - was that intentional? The metronome is off ;)
Ehhehehehe.. Ooops, I didn't notice that at all. OTL Fixed again!
Alace
i got help from Lybydose and QQ oneesama
BPM:123.97
offset:17471
delete the second red line and resnap all notes,also you need to check green lines

if you agree with this timing, you need to do a lot of works to SB and full submit
Topic Starter
Lanttu

Alace wrote:

i got help from Lybydose and QQ oneesama
BPM:123.97
offset:17471
delete the second red line and resnap all notes,also you need to check green lines

if you agree with this timing, you need to do a lot of works to SB and full submit
Well, I fixed the BPM and offset, but do I really have to redo the SB? ;_; I mean, it's only ~3ms difference, there's no way that someone is going to notice that with naked eyes?
-SiN-
alace asked me

make it bigger (the cardiod anim)

Topic Starter
Lanttu

-SiN- wrote:

alace asked me

make it bigger (the cardiod anim)
It's bigger now~ ... . . .When it finishes the uploading.
Alace
I can`t really notice too
if you want your SB fitting the map better, you can do it
but you don`t really HAVE YO do this
it`s all up to you

if you don`t feel like to redo that tiny SB things, just PM me online
i will recheck the map
-SiN-

Lanttu wrote:

Well, I fixed the BPM and offset, but do I really have to redo the SB? ;_; I mean, it's only ~3ms difference, there's no way that someone is going to notice that with naked eyes?

Alace wrote:

I can`t really notice too
if you want your SB fitting the map better, you can do it
but you don`t really HAVE YO do this
it`s all up to you

if you don`t feel like to redo that tiny SB things, just PM me online
i will recheck the map

Topic Starter
Lanttu

-SiN- wrote:

Yeahhh, but it was the BPM that was changed, so it's not the same in the beginning and end? ;___;

//EDIT YEAHH I forgot the +6ms offset change, edited it to storyboard also.
Alace
<Zetsubou Sensei's Normal>
some of your sliders have sliderwhistle sounds, i don`t kniw if you set those on purpose
00:25:214 (1) -
00:29:086 (1) -
take few examples here, feel free to keep or temove those
FireballFlame

Alace wrote:

i got help from Lybydose and QQ oneesama
BPM:123.97
offset:17471
delete the second red line and resnap all notes,also you need to check green lines
STOP!

Before you do anything else about the timing, please believe me that it is not 123.97bpm and that my advice was correct (apart from one detail). I will show proof immediately; it will take a bit to make screenshots and write the explanation...
FireballFlame
Here we go...

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2302/fullsong.png
This is the full song.

The program I used to open it is FL Studio. FL Studio has a "detect tempo" algorithm which told me that the song is 124 bpm. But let's not trust that one, let's check it ourselves.
First, we need a reference point in the beat that we can work with. The bass drum isn't good for this (since low frequency = slow wave) so I've used the "snare drum" (I don't know if it's really a snare drum, but you hopefully know which one I mean).
A weird thing I have noticed about this song is that the snare drum shifts. If you divide the song in groups of 4 measures each (starting from the first measure to have drums), the drum starts to plays a tiny bit later in each measure. Starting with the next group however, it is spot-on again. This means we can only use the first snare in every 4 measures as a reference point.

So our first reference point is the first snare sound in the song, about 18 seconds into it.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6930/firsth.png

Note that I've synced the grid in the background to 124bpm and matched the snare to one of the vertical lines (which are 1/16th of a beat apart).
Scrolling through the song, it shows that all of our other reference points (that is, every first snare in every 4 measures, as explained above) match the grid as well, which means: 124bpm must be correct. See for yourself:

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/690/lastbeforequitepart.png
This is the last reference point (57 seconds in) before what I call "the quiet part" starts (1:04 minutes in).

But the map was set to 124bpm in the first place. If that's the correct tempo, then why did it sound off?
Well, this is why:

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8994/firstafterquietpart.png
This is the first reference point - the first snare - after aforementioned quite part. You'll notice it's off.
But not only this one. Starting from this one, all of them are. So the bold "all" I wrote earlier is only true until the quiet part.
However, I will now realign the song, so that this "first reference point after the quite part" matches the beat again:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5272/firstafterquietpart3tic.png
Same position, same tempo (124bpm still), I just moved the song a bit to the left. Now it fits again. And so does the rest of the song. I'll prove it with the last reference point in the song (1:42 in):

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/4760/last.png

The conclusion of all of this is:
The song is indeed 124bpm, there is only a small delay/offset change somewhere in the quiet part. Because the last syllable Miku sings at 1:16 still fits the grid before I moved the song ...
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5141/lastmikusyllablebeforeq.png
... we can narrow down the interval to 2 seconds. Yes I know, it doesn't fit exactly, but she's the singer after all, not the drums, so that's to be expected. And it's a lot less than the first reference point after the quiet part was and in the other direction too.
Anyway, in those remaining 2 seconds, we have a piano chord. At 1:18.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2658/thepianochord.png
And as you can see, this one is off quite a bit.

So..........
just like I said in this post, the offset change is before the piano chord.
And 124bpm is correct.


For the sake of completeness, let's try 123.97bpm, like Alace said:

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7037/12397first.png
First reference point in the song: check.

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/91/12397firstafterquietpar.png
First reference point after the quite part: check.

But that's it. All the others don't fit. The last reference point before the quite part, or the last one in the song, or any other one...
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4604/12397lastbeforequietpar.png
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/738/12397last.png

So the 123.97bpm kinda do compensate for the offset change, but aren't correct. 124 is the way to go.



There only remaining question is: how big exactly is this offset change?
And that's the single detail that I mentioned in my previous post, the one I might not have gotten right. I said "about 20ms", but let's calculate the correct value:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2789/markers.png
I opened the song in FL Studio's wave editor and marked 3 reference points (please read the orange captions).
I marked them VERY precisely.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2647/sampleperfect.png

And now, reading the positions from that editor:
"First" is @ 18.467 seconds
"Last before quiet part" is @ 57.176 seconds
"First after quiet part" is @ 80.418 seconds

"First" and "Last before quiet part" are 20 measures from each other in the song.
"First" and "First after quiet part" are 32 measures from each other in the song.

57.176 seconds - 18.467 seconds = 38.709 seconds
80.418 seconds - 18.467 seconds = 61.951 seconds

Now, extrapolating where "First after quiet part" should be, if the tempo remained constant:
38.709 seconds / 20 measures * 32 measures = (38.709 / 20 * 32) seconds = 61.9344 seconds after "First"

Subtracting this from the actual distance between "First after quiet part" and "First", we get:
61.951 seconds - 61.9344 seconds = 0.0166 seconds = 16.6ms

And this is our offset change before the piano chord.


So please use 124bpm for your first timing section, and for the one that does not inherit the previous settings as well.
Set the offset for the latter to the offset of the first one plus 60.017.


edit: oops, little mistake corrected
-SiN-
longest mod i've ever seen
Topic Starter
Lanttu
Agreed, that's pretty damn impressive I say. O_O

I'll do the changes when I come from the school. o/ Do-do-do done!
Alace
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/29467
yeah i guess it`s ok now
just wait for the guest mapper`s reply
Zetsubou Sensei

Alace wrote:

<Zetsubou Sensei's Normal>
some of your sliders have sliderwhistle sounds, i don`t kniw if you set those on purpose
00:25:214 (1) -
00:29:086 (1) -
take few examples here, feel free to keep or temove those
Hm..Thanks for pointing that out, I removed them... (dont know why they were on like that any way) =P

Here you go.

Download: Hatsune Miku - Cardioid (Lanttu) [Zetsubou Sensei's Normal].osu
Topic Starter
Lanttu
Awesome. ^_^/ *update*
nonoh_old
ahh lovely SB <3 -star-
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