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[duplicate] Editor: Soundwaves

posted
Total Posts
41
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +8
Atmey
415 posts
Joined October 2008
Topic Starter
Atmey
Those waves you see when you open an editor (not while playing) I think it just tells the loudness of the part. It would make it easier to know where to set the beats or find the BPM. It would be under the beat bar at the top.
I think it would be very helpful.

EDIT: maybe toggleable if someone didn't like it, or it wouldn't work for certain kinds of songs.
Found an image:


deadbeat edit: t/169068
An64fan
osu! Alumni
864 posts
Joined September 2008
An64fan
I think something like this would be pretty neat. I know I wouldn't if it were implemented. :) Even if it didn't have a lot of functional use, it'd still be cool to have.
CheeseWarlock
osu! Alumni
1,185 posts
Joined May 2008
CheeseWarlock
I can't see this as being very useful. In the vast majority of songs, you can find the beat much better by ear than you would be able to with a volume chart like that. And it would need to be a very high sample rate chart to make finding BPM actually feasible for not that much usefulness.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Atmey
415 posts
Joined October 2008
Topic Starter
Atmey
I dunno, I can't really read the wave. I tried to if it will really work.
First beats in Sekai wa sore, might not be 100% accurate.

What do you think?
dumpsterdiver
67 posts
Joined July 2008
dumpsterdiver
The "wave" you see is a representation of the amplitude that sound channel over time. That is how .wav files store data; a series of points (a 24-bit 44.1khz wav would store 44100 points for each second of audio, and each point would use 24 bits of storage). This is not the way that most codecs store sound, because it requires HUGE file sizes. MP3 uses a series of block headers and data to store information, and in order to get this wave diagram, it would have to be decoded first. Open an mp3 in audacity and it'll take a few seconds to import the mp3 because it has to decode it first (speed dependent on your machine and the size of the file). Do you really want to decode a file every time you open the editor for a wave function that really won't help you find the beats anyway? Might I also add, that most files have two channels, so that'd get in the way.
Gens
osu! Alumni
3,485 posts
Joined August 2008
Gens
dumpsterdiver has some good points in there;
and also, this works mainly on simple VideoGame music, I don't think it would really work with a Rock song for example.

it could get neat, but it could also get confusing or useless. :(
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo

dumpsterdiver wrote:

Do you really want to decode a file every time you open the editor for a wave function that really won't help you find the beats anyway?
Files can be decoded on the fly. In any case, audio files always have to be decoded before playing anyway.
dumpsterdiver
67 posts
Joined July 2008
dumpsterdiver
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
Depends on how we want the wave to be displayed. If it's only going to be displayed in the timeline, then it can be done on the fly with almost no loading time because it's a small section.

Note I don't like the idea much. I'm just saying it's doable.
dumpsterdiver
67 posts
Joined July 2008
dumpsterdiver

Echo wrote:

Depends on how we want the wave to be displayed. If it's only going to be displayed in the timeline, then it can be done on the fly with almost no loading time because it's a small section.

Note I don't like the idea much. I'm just saying it's doable.
I can agree with this. But it's still silly.

Like a mermaid.
Atmey
415 posts
Joined October 2008
Topic Starter
Atmey
Mermaid wants to see music wave, she can't hear clearly underwater. She also says it can help in some maps, so why not? And as I mentioned, a toggle option if it gets in the way.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Gemi
osu! Alumni
685 posts
Joined March 2008
Gemi
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
dumpsterdiver
67 posts
Joined July 2008
dumpsterdiver
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Atmey
415 posts
Joined October 2008
Topic Starter
Atmey
There is this game I played once, like a car collecting things played using mouse, it auto generates the track according to the mp3. It was free for a week or so. The game's name was just on my tongue, I forgot it. :x
vytalibus
osu! Alumni
870 posts
Joined May 2008
vytalibus

Atmey wrote:

There is this game I played once, like a car collecting things played using mouse, it auto generates the track according to the mp3. It was free for a week or so. The game's name was just on my tongue, I forgot it. :x
Do you mean Audiosurf?
Atmey
415 posts
Joined October 2008
Topic Starter
Atmey

vytalibus wrote:

Atmey wrote:

There is this game I played once, like a car collecting things played using mouse, it auto generates the track according to the mp3. It was free for a week or so. The game's name was just on my tongue, I forgot it. :x
Do you mean Audiosurf?
Yeah, thats the one.
Gemi
osu! Alumni
685 posts
Joined March 2008
Gemi

dumpsterdiver wrote:

Yes, peak to peak can help determine BPM. But at that rate, why not just use a BPM analyzer, like Mixmeister? Generally speaking, if a song's bpm can't be determined by a computer doing simple subtraction, than a human hand isn't going to help. At that point, you're gonna need ears.
I don't see why you are even discussing this issue with your seemingly lacking understanding of these issues. A bpm analyzer could never be used to get accurate results for a song with drifting bpm. MixMeister for example gives a single bpm number, which is usually correct if the song has only one steady bpm, but if it's a live recording with bpm varying all the time it will only give you an average bpm, not a list of bpm's that would keep the sync correct for the whole song. With something like ddreamstudio you can have the bpm correct through the whole song regardles of how much and how often the bpm drifts through the song.

Atmey wrote:

There is this game I played once, like a car collecting things played using mouse, it auto generates the track according to the mp3. It was free for a week or so. The game's name was just on my tongue, I forgot it. :x
Yeah, Audiosurf. Haven't actually played it yet, but it seems very fun. From what I've watched in videos it's still not perfect in following the song. It really is hard to let a computer automatically do this music analyzing stuff.
dumpsterdiver
67 posts
Joined July 2008
dumpsterdiver
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Gemi
osu! Alumni
685 posts
Joined March 2008
Gemi
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
peppy
19,316 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Waveforms aren't constant enough for that in all but techno or dance tracks where the bass can be recognised as a constant, unfortunately. Then you need to get into sampling waveform at a certain frequency level, which would need to be tuned on a per-song basis. Getting users to "place beats" is about as helpful as writing code to do the same thing.

I have read up a *lot* on bpm detection (in both terms of science and music) and considered different algorithms for it. There are some really advanced techniques, but at the end of the day they rely on volume/frequency peaks which can be found more easily using statistical analysis than manual visual analysis.

tldr; i don't think this feature is useful.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
peppy has spoken.
Blue Stig
378 posts
Joined November 2011
Blue Stig
What I was thinking of exactly is a Audacity-like timeline behind the regular timeline so you can see exactly where the beats are in the audio.
It would make tweaking the timing quite a bit easier.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
can you provide a screenshot example?
Blue Stig
378 posts
Joined November 2011
Blue Stig
What I was thinking of is putting this-

behind this-


You also might need to increase the max zoom a bit.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
yeah i can't really understand that. it just looks like it'll end up confusing people :(
Blue Stig
378 posts
Joined November 2011
Blue Stig

deadbeat wrote:

yeah i can't really understand that. it just looks like it'll end up confusing people :(
Well, basically what you are looking at are the specific wavelengths of the song.
If you look at the overlay while listening to the song you can identify where exactly where each beat is.
Once you established that, you can see every timing adjustment you make to a T.

Obviously needs a toggle and tutorial.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
i still stand by my previous statement about it being confusing
nanaz0r
46 posts
Joined December 2009
nanaz0r
Do you mean kind of like this but for osu? o_o

Blue Stig
378 posts
Joined November 2011
Blue Stig

nanaz0r wrote:

Do you mean kind of like this but for osu? o_o

SPOILER
Yep.
Just make it smaller and fit it in the timeline.
[BlinK]
[BlinK]
I understand this,

It could be useful. Not sure tho :L
blissfulyoshi
osu! Alumni
4,755 posts
Joined July 2008
blissfulyoshi
Since most mp3s look like something in nanaz0r's pic (a lot of sound pressure spikes grouped close together), I find the overlay to be near useless, and creating a mess more than anything else, so no support from me.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest

Duplicate

t/9536/
Continue this discussion over there.
blissfulyoshi
osu! Alumni
4,755 posts
Joined July 2008
blissfulyoshi
Thanks Theowest. I decided to just merge the topics and move the topic back out of the completed section, so we can just continue the discussion here.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
Now that's how you handle duplicates! (if they both add much to the discussion)
Archangel Tirael
479 posts
Joined January 2011
Archangel Tirael
Hm... Nice idea. I think that it will be very useful, especialy for not experiensed mappers.
Kuro
836 posts
Joined July 2012
Kuro
Hmm.. I like this idea, it sure would help me a lot. I'm one of those people with almost no rhythm so it'll take me several times to map the beat correctly in some of my songs... With this i can plot points accordingly.. Here, take a few stars.. :D
Blue Stig
378 posts
Joined November 2011
Blue Stig

blissfulyoshi wrote:

Since most mp3s look like something in nanaz0r's pic (a lot of sound pressure spikes grouped close together), I find the overlay to be near useless, and creating a mess more than anything else, so no support from me.
1. Again, add a toggle.

2. Put the soundwaves behind the beat lines of the editor and make them a dark, unobtrusive color.

3. It would be easier to see the soundwaves with the increased zoom Peppy added recently.

We could also use some sort of spectrum analyzer.
Using a spectrum analyzer you could select a certain range of frequencies to isolate certain instruments in the soundwaves.
Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Saten
This would be quite useful.

More accurate offset
ann_old
ann_old
sounds great! handy for when a part repeats at the same rhythm with copy-pasting and you forget where you have to put a note.
saves time of listening to it all over again.

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