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A new and fair based rating system for beatmaps

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +68
Topic Starter
GladiOol
I've been digging through some old topics/posts and a lot of people would like the current rating system to change.
Also: this is not a duplicate of Ekaru's or Dark's topic. (inb4 somebody posts it.) This is a request for a 2 way option, not a 5 way like they had.

3 random quotes I found doing some searching;

strager wrote:

I'm not sure if the rating spread should be removed as much as the rating system redesigned, though. A "thumbs up"/"thumbs down" kinda thing would be cool.

theowest wrote:

I want this so badly. Like and dislikes like youtube is perfect. If you're a pro youtube user, you know that likes and dislikes are better than any other 1-5/10 rating system.

CheeseWarlock wrote:

I'd be fine with a "like/dislike", and that would pave the way for weighted voting:

voter.relativeweight = 1 - ( abs(voter.likedmaps - voter.dislikedmaps) / voter.numvotes)

The voter's vote weight, defaulting to 1, is decreased by the difference between their + votes and - votes with respect to their total number of votes.

100 liked, 0 disliked: no weight.
4 liked, 2 disliked: 67% weight.
1 liked, 1 disliked: 100% weight.

Edit: maybe even have a slight weighting advantage to people who vote more often?

voter.relativeweight = 1 - ( abs(voter.likedmaps - voter.dislikedmaps) / voter.numvotes) + 0.15 * log(voter.numvotes)

The 1-10 voting system just doesn't work; 1 voters/10 voters pretty much ruin the whole system and don't give an accurate rating.

Previous topics all had like a 5 option rating system, which is too many to be honest.
5 options will barely improve the troll voting/10 voting. Maybe slightly, but not enough.
What we should do is that we should simplify it to only 2 options, like on sites as youtube or rottentomatoes.

After a beatmap has been played, we should be able to just 'Like' or 'Not Like' a beatmap. (Thumbs up/thumbs down, etc.)


A simple option which will make the rating system way more accurate. Why?
  1. Troll voters can only 'Not Like' a map now instead of tremendously decreasing the rating on a map.
  2. 10 voters who vote 10 on every single beatmap get the same effect as troll voters. Their vote won't tremendously increase the beatmaps rating. And believe me, osu! has ALOT of 10 voters. They are more of a burden than troll voters at the moment.
Like this maps will get a more accurate rating, as we can see how many % of the people have liked or disliked a map.
And like I said before, major sites like youtube and rottentomatoes already use this option, and it works great.
If it would also be possible to make your votes weighted, that be even more sexy~ (I know imdb used weighted votes too)


It's a rating system which will bring more justice to mappers, so it would be very sexy if this would be implented~
Shiirn
I actually agree with this well-thought-out post.


I agree with weighting a voting system to people who vote more, especially to people who vote more "realistically". However, such an algorithm would be hard to create seeing as people will naturally play maps from genres they like, which will influence their opinion just as much as the map itself.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but a weighted voting system like newgrounds would be fairly effective...
Ekaru
Lots of support for this from me, of course! This is pretty much exactly what I want. ^_^

EDIT: Really, the average rating was slightly over 8 when I joined. Now it's just so ridiculous that we might as well switch; we already have a Like/Dislike spread shown on the beatmap info page, anyways.
Sakura
I support this as well, not sure if it would actually help tho, but im at the "why not?" phase
Wishy
Agree, +1 -1 votes ftw.
lkjl23
...
Luna
Yes, it's pretty meaningless that basically all maps nowadays have a ~9.1 - 9.5 rating with exceptions for popular/unpopular songs.
Weighted voting would be SO awesome :D
Mismagius
I didn't know people still cared about rating.


Either way, then we would say bye-bye to mapper rankings? Not that it makes much sense anyway.
Topic Starter
GladiOol

Blue Dragon wrote:

I didn't know people still cared about rating.


Either way, then we would say bye-bye to mapper rankings? Not that it makes much sense anyway.
Hmm? No~
Just make it Like / Not Like based on %, just like the beatmaps.

Person with most % of likes is on top I guess. (And there should be a minimum amount of likes/dislikes before you should be able to enter the mappers ranking then imo, to make sure you won't get on with just a few votes... I guess ^^)
R3laX3R
Good Idea :D
ziin
truncate current votes.
1-5 = not like
6-10 = like

I'm not a fan of any voting system because there is no way to accurately describe how much I like the map.

Bad maps ranked with overmapping errors or bad skins get a 1 from me because they are not fun to play. Now you're saying I can only "not like" a map?

Perfect maps are few and far between for me.

Well I guess I can handle this, as I'd only rate good or bad maps and abstain from the 95% of "meh" maps on osu.
xsrsbsns
Like.
Metro
Support.
Topic Starter
GladiOol
Bump. Need more opinions, suggestions etc.
0_o
Yes please.

While we're at it, each difficulty should have its own separate rating as well.
mm201
Like/dislike systems need a huge number of votes to reduce the error to an acceptable level. That's why it works for Youtube.
Mismagius
Why don't we remove the rating system for good?...

No, really. Most people don't care about it, and the people who DO care, usually get hurt by the sense of voting of the people who like anime songs and hate #modhelp mappers.
Metro

mm201 wrote:

Like/dislike systems need a huge number of votes to reduce the error to an acceptable level. That's why it works for Youtube.
Then make osu force players to give their rating after a song. One click in like or dislike isn't a hassle.

If not, I have a different system in mind.

There could be a number of judges for new beatmaps. This groups would include BAT's, MAT's and regular players. They would vote on different aspects of a beatmap such as flow, creativity, synergy with the song, etc. (someone with more mapping experience could think of these aspects).

This system could go together with the old system so there's the user rating and the judges (or editors, whatever) rating.
Ekaru

mm201 wrote:

Like/dislike systems need a huge number of votes to reduce the error to an acceptable level. That's why it works for Youtube.
From my experience, it evens out once you get to about 300 votes, and most maps nowadays definitely reach that point in a quick amount of time.
theowest
Proof that I'm a pro youtuber:

Metro
I was
theowest

Metro wrote:

theowest wrote:

Proof that I'm a pro youtuber:

And this is relevant because? Please don't post if you're going to spam.

GladiOol wrote:

theowest wrote:

I want this so badly. Like and dislikes like youtube is perfect. If you're a pro youtube user, you know that likes and dislikes are better than any other 1-5/10 rating system.
There.
Metro
Very rude .

I apologize.
theowest

Metro wrote:

And who the fuck cares if you're a pro youtube user or not 2 months after this has been posted... Stop necroing threads to feed your epenis please.
If people didn't believe what GladiOol wrote.
The feature request "A new and fair based rating system for beatmaps" is a great feature request and deserves its posts. More people will notice this thread now.
HakuNoKaemi
Add a commenting feature, anyway, the now-system problem is linked to the fact the only used votes are 1-2-3-9-10, and the fact it do not help that much mappers knowing what they did wrong.
The Like/Dislike function could have been misused. The weightening, anyway, should be more like
95-100 % - Like, No weight
90-95 % - Like, 33% weight
80-90 % - Like, 66% weight
70-80 % - Like, 100% weight
50-70 % - Like, 120% weight
30-50 % - Like, 100% weight
15-30 % - Like, 66% weight
5-15 - Like, 33% weight
0-5 % - Like, 0% weight

Why? people who like about 50-70% of the things they play seems more normal actually than around 40-60 % and fair voters are actually under a more large group (30-85%). Too with people that thumbed up/down a really low numbers of map, at least 25 thumbs required to make the weightening of their votes active would be fair.

Even if the actually weightening could have counted with that system so far. an users giving 10 and/or 1 everytime could weight less than someone that gave a larger spread of votes (so weightening based on spread)
Sakura
Would be nice, but your percentages overlap themselves like anything between 80 and 85% has 100% and 66% weight? O.o
HakuNoKaemi
33% = 1/3
66% = 2/3
Sakura

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

80-90 % - Like, 66% weight
70-85 % - Like, 100% weight
80% < 85% so...
bomber34
To be honest I am not sure about this one

because like and dislikes doesn't really work either.

For example: Youtube Poop
There are so many bad Videos on Youtube but they got 500 likes and 2 dislikes just because the people like the creator or genre.
(And you can't tell me that this is just not my taste .... A video with crappy audio, bad cut and just repeating some scenes is not a good youtube poop)


In that case

Someone does a bad Anime map (that got ranked without any mods ((just for example)) )
and I am sure this map gets 90 likes to 10 dislikes just because people like the song.

I doesn't like both rating systems but i don't have a super suggestion.
I hope you understand me.
Sakura
A better suggestion would be to remove the beatmap ratings and mapper rankings? since nothing we come up with will ever be fair
bomber34

Sakura Hana wrote:

A better suggestion would be to remove the beatmap ratings and mapper rankings? since nothing we come up with will ever be fair

yeah ...
the only thing i could think of would be that people write a comment about the map.
But that is useless because you can use the Beatmap thread or just call it "after-modding"
And even if that would be implemented people would abuse it like
FIRST!!!!11 ( and i don't talk about the auto watch comments ^^ )
-.-

But removing it...
I don't know I mean the rating system works at least for the old beatmaps
Topic Starter
GladiOol
Of course it will never be fair...

But atleast like/dislike system will improve it.
It will irredicate those idiots who just vote 10's or just vote 1's. They can only vote with the other majority who votes like/dislike now.

This way troll voters/10 voters will have less of an impact on the rating of the beatmap.
bomber34

GladiOol wrote:

Of course it will never be fair...

But atleast like/dislike system will improve it.
It will irredicate those idiots who just vote 10's or just vote 1's. They can only vote with the other majority who votes like/dislike now.

This way troll voters/10 voters will have less of an impact on the rating of the beatmap.
So everyone is then a troll/fanboy ^^

nah just kidding. I admit this system would be better but i wouldn't be satisfied and also i hate likes/dislikes because the youtube kiddy community made it to an exhausting joke.
10 people (cause 10 dislikes) are gay ololol
10 people like justin bieber

and those stupid comments are always the best rated ones :x
I know this would be impossible in osu! (at least i hope so) but i got a hate for that system Dx
I would be happier with no rating system but then there would be something missing
So I would support this idea but i don't have any votes left :)
Topic Starter
GladiOol
I never said everyone is a troll/fanboy.

I said that with this system troll/fanboys will have less of an impact on the rating of a beatmap.
A 'dislike' (equal to 1~5 with the current rating system) has less of an impact than a '1' vote has now.
That's the whole point of this system.

Irredicating the enite rating system is pretty much silly if you ask me. Everybody wants to express their opinion/feelings about maps (osu!), videos (youtube), movies (imdb), even your friends status' on facebook.
And seeing that lots of people complain about the rating system, and so do I, a change is needed.
This seems to be the best thing atm, and if we could also get the votes weighted that be sexy as hell also.
DJKero
I think mostly like GladiOol, the only thing is that would be Good, but not really that good we really want...

I think a way to be more fair is, for vote Like/Dislike you'll need to had cleared the map 3 times (For taking out the 1st impressions that aren't so accurate, because we're humans...)

The Like/Dislike need to be a MUST VOTE...

Then, when you had cleared 10 times that map, optionally you can choose what was the point for you picking Like or Dislike...

So, there can be Creativity, Style, Difficulty/Challenge... and you may pick ONE of those...

So there we get a idea of what is the good point of the map, or what's the missing point of it... (Getting a +1 if you liked it and a -1 if you disliked it...

So there we have a % of Likes, and a Idea of in what point the votes were based...

So there we can Categorize beatmaps if we want, into Creatives, Uniques/Cools and Bad/Good/Insane Difficulty...

And there can be a beatmap achievements system too... for the 3 Points of view, Creativity Badge, Stylish Badge and Perfect Difficulty Badge...

Or things like that...
0_o
Who would play a map they didn't like 3 times just to vote for it? All that would come of that is overwhelmingly positive reviews.
Minty Gum
The only problem I can see is that me (and probably other people) will be too nice about rating and will like the amazing as well as the okay...but not bad enough to dislike maps. I suppose there will also be people that tend to dislike more maps that will even the ratings out, so I would be fine with this change.

And also... about the playing 3 times before rating... DISAGREE. sometimes if I play through a really bad map I just want to finish it, give it the 7-star or whatever it deserves, and DELETE IT. Not torture myself even more D: The people who like the bad map will play it 3 times, give it a 10 star (or like, if the rating system is changed) while the people who don't like it will play one time and not bother with 3 more to give it a low rating or dislike. So, a bad map would end up with a higher score than it really deserves. Does that make sense or am I spouting nonsense again? o_o
bomber34

GladiOol wrote:

I never said everyone is a troll/fanboy.

I said that with this system troll/fanboys will have less of an impact on the rating of a beatmap.
A 'dislike' (equal to 1~5 with the current rating system) has less of an impact than a '1' vote has now.
That's the whole point of this system.

Irredicating the enite rating system is pretty much silly if you ask me. Everybody wants to express their opinion/feelings about maps (osu!), videos (youtube), movies (imdb), even your friends status' on facebook.
And seeing that lots of people complain about the rating system, and so do I, a change is needed.
This seems to be the best thing atm, and if we could also get the votes weighted that be sexy as hell also.
sry if you didn't understand me :(
The troll fanboy thing was a joke .
I also don't wanna have no voting system. I think that like/dislike is better but also not perfect. And if we do that it would be fine to vote each difficulty because sometimes i play a "bad" Map but the map isn't horrible or so but the diff.
So you could vote guest diff. which are sometimes really good on a "bad" map.
Andruchon

bomber34 wrote:

I also don't wanna have no voting system. I think that like/dislike is better but also not perfect. And if we do that it would be fine to vote each difficulty because sometimes i play a "bad" Map but the map isn't horrible or so but the diff.
So you could vote guest diff. which are sometimes really good on a "bad" map.
i think own rating for every map is a good idea, but it will only work, if more people vote.
so there should be thumb up / thumb down, because it is faster, if you think that map is normal, then dont vote.
also the vote weight is a good idea too, because more people will vote to improve their raiting.
J U D G E
Nice post.
S h i a
Support.
Mercurial
tl;dr

Support.
Topic Starter
GladiOol
tl;dr

this will never get implented. no need to post on this guys.
theowest

GladiOol wrote:

tl;dr

this will never get implented. no need to post on this guys.
There's still hope. osu! needs this perfect idea implemented.

0_o wrote:

While we're at it, each difficulty should have its own separate rating as well.
I think so too. Having each difficulty its own separate rating and then creating an average percentage of likes for the beatmap.
Guess difficulties are very different compared to the other difficulties in the map set.

mm201 wrote:

Like/dislike systems need a huge number of votes to reduce the error to an acceptable level. That's why it works for Youtube.
osu! receives more ratings per play than a Youtube video receives likes/dislikes per view. You can always see the rating even though there's only a handful of likes/dislikes on Youtube. I don't see how these errors would be much of a problem. Isn't it suppose to be easy to generate a percentage from a few numbers?

I can't live in a world without this implemented.
This must, sooner or later be implemented.
JackspicerX13
Sure, i'd agree, because ppl like me tend to search for popular beatmaps (sorry), which we overlooked less popular ones due to the current rating system.
It'd be more fair to beatmappers for their hardwork.
Liked! Wham! ^^
SonicFan344
Yes! Finally.....i'm tired of the 1-10 rating System
theowest

SonicFan344 wrote:

Yes! Finally.....i'm tired of the 1-10 rating System
Everyone should be tired of it by now.
Mithos
I would rather rate beatmap difficulty off of how many fails it has than base it off the star system. Every song past a certain point (When players are considered fluent in osu!) is a 10. This means The Secret Garden's Insane is exactly the same difficulty as StrangeProgram's TAG4 difficulty. The hell.
LunarSakuya

Mithost wrote:

I would rather rate beatmap difficulty off of how many fails it has than base it off the star system. Every song past a certain point (When players are considered fluent in osu!) is a 10. This means The Secret Garden's Insane is exactly the same difficulty as StrangeProgram's TAG4 difficulty. The hell.
huh? rating beatmap difficulty?
theowest
this is RATING (liking/disliking) beatmaps, not rating beatmap difficulty.
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