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Allow to use different Approach Rates in map

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313
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +1,210
Mastodonio
1,118 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio
If this topic has already been created,then sorry..

Well,why can't we use different Approach Rates in map? For example - for sliders we can put slowdown,but for circles we can't do nothing. and sometimes it doesn't look good when the song with AR 9 has a calm moment and the circles fall so fast. So,we can create inheriting timing section,and put different AR there. What do you think about it?
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi
No because if we had this, it would be totally disorienting and unnecessary.
Mastodonio
1,118 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio

Kitsunemimi wrote:

No because if we had this, it would be totally disorienting and unnecessary.
Well,who knows. With slowdowns and 2x speed sliders it is not disorienting,and with circles with different AR's it will be?
Xgor
Elite Mapper
2,534 posts
Joined April 2009
Xgor
I can see the moments when this is useful, for example, Beats And Pieces is a song I tried to map. It starts at 70 BPM and anything over 6-7 looks wrong but ends at 200 BPM and anything under 9 looks wrong!

So yeah, this have my support but it better be justified to when it's used as this can be abused very easy.
Faust
osu! Alumni
4,785 posts
Joined January 2009
Faust
Will definitely need special permission even if it's implemented, I also support this. We can still utilize this and keep abuse to a minimal, or at a halt, since with the addition of another feature, there's bound to be a restriction of some sort over this.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
No no no no no. I dread to see the abuse this would cause despite it's potential good uses.

Xgor wrote:

It starts at 70 BPM and anything over 6-7 looks wrong but ends at 200 BPM and anything under 9 looks wrong!.
Go full troll and set AR5 for the whole thing :D
Firo Prochainezo
2,140 posts
Joined June 2010
Firo Prochainezo

RandomJibberish wrote:

No no no no no. I dread to see the abuse this would cause despite it's potential good uses.
And this is why we have our friendly BATs and MATs!.

Other than that, I have no support. I'll see how it turns out before supporting.
Waryas
Waryas
edit : not supporting, adapting to a new speed will confuse me.
Last edited by Waryas , edited 1 time in total.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
I know there are a lot of people against this, but I really do think this is a good idea. For songs that have both soft and intense parts a changing AR could work very well.

Of course there's potential for abuse, but seeing as we have an approval system I really don't think that's much of an issue.
Mashley
2,042 posts
Joined September 2008
Mashley
Much as I want this, it'd probably end up with some terrible mapper abusing it for 'creativity'.
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby
Increase AR to 10 at all kiai time sections, fuck yeah.
Mismagius
9,313 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

0_o wrote:

I know there are a lot of people against this, but I really do think this is a good idea. For songs that have both soft and intense parts a changing AR could work very well.

Of course there's potential for abuse, but seeing as we have an approval system I really don't think that's much of an issue.
Exactly. If people tried to map "I Prefer the Sky (Remix)", they would know what I'm talking about. ;P
Luneko
842 posts
Joined June 2009
Luneko
Well, yes there will be many maps abusing this
but i want this :3
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
I totally despise when this happens on rhythm games like DDR.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

MetalMario201 wrote:

I totally despise when this happens on rhythm games like DDR.
or you know, taiko.
James2250
osu! Alumni
4,059 posts
Joined July 2008
James2250
It worries me to think how much this can easily be abused (and will be) and have to deal with mappers refusing to change any of it because "it fits"

However I have seen several maps where this idea could be very helpful...
I guess half support~
Mastodonio
1,118 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio
I am surprised that my idea has such a good support.
That is the first time when I do it,so Idk if it is bad or not - that I voted 4 times for this idea by myself :)
peppy
19,318 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
*holds gun to head*

*cringes and pulls trigger*
Mastodonio
1,118 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio

peppy wrote:

*holds gun to head*

*cringes and pulls trigger*
Don't laugh,I am kinda new in this topic :) My previous ideas vere denied by you,so I don't know how does this system work.
ShaggoN
689 posts
Joined September 2008
ShaggoN

peppy wrote:

*holds gun to head*

*cringes and pulls trigger*
NOOOOOO!!! *takes the gun away from ppy*

Anyways...i don't support. It would be too much confusing. Kiai is enough for me. :o
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy
Oh my god

no no no no fucking no

James2250 wrote:

It worries me to think how much this can easily be abused (and will be) and have to deal with mappers refusing to change any of it because "it fits"

tldr: push button receive even worse osu community division
Last edited by Jinxy , edited 1 time in total.
Luna
2,355 posts
Joined November 2010
Luna
While I understand that there are some maps where it really fits - this would be incredibly disorienting orz
I mean, I already get enough combobreaks with unexpected 2x slider velocity changes, I don't even wanna imagine how my accuracy would plummet if this gets used D:
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Card N'FoRcE
This made me remember when osu didn't refresh Approach Rate when changing Overall Difficulty some time ago and i kinda "tested" some patterns with two different approach rates.

It would be a interesting feature, but it would also kill the biggest element used for reading patterns.

Some cases in which i could see this fit are songs described above, with a break before the AR change.
That would be a really nice touch and not disturbing at all while playing.

I'm neutral about this.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
Would a rule of not being able to switch ARs without a break in between be a decent compromise?
Mashley
2,042 posts
Joined September 2008
Mashley
Support, it's literally impossible to map progressive songs without this. Just make it an outright rule that this is for songs which vary in tone and not just for added difficulty.
Larto
4,128 posts
Joined June 2008
Larto

Mashley wrote:

Just make it an outright rule that this is for songs which vary in tone and not just for added difficulty.
I am very okay with this.
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby

Larto wrote:

Mashley wrote:

Just make it an outright rule that this is for songs which vary in tone and not just for added difficulty.
I am very okay with this.
No, that doesn't help much. I'd say that most songs mapped here change "tone" many times throughout. It really isn't something you can give an easy yes/no rule towards.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
This feature will make maps absolutely unpredictable, I already see some maps with low AR having suddenly an AR 10 part you don't see coming.
Bittersweet
2,031 posts
Joined February 2010
Bittersweet

James2250 wrote:

It worries me to think how much this can easily be abused (and will be) and have to deal with mappers refusing to change any of it because "it fits"
I imagine how itd be if we just have a group of members that can take care about what can be ranked or not~ ohwait.

But no, i don't support it ._.
qlum
481 posts
Joined October 2008
qlum
it could work if moderated correctly though in some maps it can really be useful to change the approach rate for example when the rythem changes completely in the middle of a map.
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
YES.

"POKER FACE"'S SLOWDOWN'S APPORACH SPEED IS REAAALLLY STUPID.

But alas, I've no votes.
Hyguys
1,272 posts
Joined May 2010
Hyguys
support.
but like the slider changes , ''Maximum 3 on map''
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
This is a very bad idea. There are very few cases (though, strong ones) where this would be useful. If and when it does get implemented, it will only be used appropriately like 2% of the time. And adding another feature like this will just be another thing for people to complain about when somebody else says they are doing it wrong.
Mastodonio
1,118 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio

Rolled wrote:

This is a very bad idea. There are very few cases (though, strong ones) where this would be useful. If and when it does get implemented, it will only be used appropriately like 2% of the time. And adding another feature like this will just be another thing for people to complain about when somebody else says they are doing it wrong.
There are not few cases where this could be useful. For example,a lot of songs can start very slow and in the middle they become faster,or the voice is getting louder and maybe it looks good if you add AR +1 or +2. It looks better then.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

Giorgos wrote:

or the voice is getting louder and maybe it looks good if you add AR +1 or +2. It looks better then.
This is exactly when you SHOULDN'T use this, and one of the strongest points against it. There's a wide enough margin of approach rates that will fit a given song, so I don't see why there'd be difficulty in finding an appropriate one. Altering gameplay to achieve a cosmetic effect is inappropriate and will needlessly confuse the player.

The only time something like this could ever be justified is if the music changes to a completely different BPM and texture.

If this ever gets added (none of the devs want this), all of faceman's rules would most certainly be enforced, plus the restriction of being only allowed on red lines.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
If anything there should be a way to make approach rate constant in maps like taiko with a varying bpm. Or have approach rate set by the player (but I know that will never happen).
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Approach rate is constant in osu! Approach rate isn't constant in Taiko. The Easy and Hard Rock modes change approach rate. I don't see any need to make this more player-configurable. It'll only make mod score multipliers harder to figure.
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
The only time something like this could ever be justified is if the music changes to a completely different BPM and texture.
Black Hole - Pluto

:<
yeahyeahyeahhh
osu! Alumni
2,850 posts
Joined December 2008
yeahyeahyeahhh
Talked with Lybydose about this the other day. Though, if this were to come alive, it would have to be held super strictly. It shouldn't be used constantly or for small intervals, more so with decent sides slow sections. Maps with like 200BPM with AR9 that have a .5x section for example really benefit from this type of thing. playing .5 at AR9 in a like of cases is just ugh.

DeltaMAX is a really good example.
qlum
481 posts
Joined October 2008
qlum
there are really maps that can use it maybe if you make the option only available in the .osu so most inexperienced mappers wont even know it is there (they are most likely to abuse it) or just give an warning in the editor, bats/mats can also be very strict about it. it can easily be undone when someone abuses it.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish

yeahyeahyeahhh wrote:

Maps with like 200BPM with AR9 that have a .5x section for example really benefit from this type of thing. playing .5 at AR9 in a like of cases is just ugh.
Why on earth are you using 0.5x sections at all now lesser speed changes are available, let alone on songs you feel deserve AR9 :/
yeahyeahyeahhh
osu! Alumni
2,850 posts
Joined December 2008
yeahyeahyeahhh

RandomJibberish wrote:

yeahyeahyeahhh wrote:

Maps with like 200BPM with AR9 that have a .5x section for example really benefit from this type of thing. playing .5 at AR9 in a like of cases is just ugh.
Why on earth are you using 0.5x sections at all now lesser speed changes are available, let alone on songs you feel deserve AR9 :/
I suppose poor choice of example. Moreso on maps with multiple BPMs. Example map I have, it is 200 BPM, AR9. Section in the song drops down to 100 BPM for awhile. AR9 just feel so off on that part, multiple approach rates I feel would make that part feel much smoother.
Faust
osu! Alumni
4,785 posts
Joined January 2009
Faust
Would work wonders on this. Fucking wonders.

Remixed by Shounen Radio - Shounen A
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
Tempted to say this should be done after a map is ranked.

Get a BAT/Dev to alter it before ranking but...

...Probably won't be a great idea.
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller
This is a very bad idea from my point of view. Approach Rate setting is very personal, one reads map by reaction, someone else by it's structure, etc. A good example would be that map yyy was talking about, he thinks it needs AR 9 and lesser AR for slower parts, I think it look just great with constant AR 8.

I kind of don't feel like stating obvious things here or to list my different rhythm games playing expirience, so the point is: we players already have to deal with hellish number of differents points of view on mapping and how many objects should be there on screen on the same time, adding this feature (sure, sure, there are good uses for this too, but) would cause only more frustration, since AR is only really decided by mapper and approvers of the map and can't be changed client-wise.
jockeytiyan
1,269 posts
Joined July 2009
jockeytiyan

yeahyeahyeahhh wrote:

I suppose poor choice of example. Moreso on maps with multiple BPMs. Example map I have, it is 200 BPM, AR9. Section in the song drops down to 100 BPM for awhile. AR9 just feel so off on that part, multiple approach rates I feel would make that part feel much smoother.

Just saying something that would probably give a "possible good" compromise is that if this feature can be allowed for a red timing section that has a BPM change (on one hand, as far as how I see it, this can't be abused with the rule for not placing red timing sections for other stuff not related to BPM/offset issues).

Though on the other hand, it can't solve the issue of creating a disorienting, nauseating map.

I just try to give a good idea but honestly, I don't have a good feeling about this unless problems that may arise can be given solutions beforehand.
Faust
osu! Alumni
4,785 posts
Joined January 2009
Faust

jockeytiyan wrote:

Though on the other hand, it can't solve the issue of creating a disorienting, nauseating map.
What are mods for anyway.

jockeytiyan wrote:

I just try to give a good idea but honestly, I don't have a good feeling about this unless problems that may arise can be given solutions beforehand.
Well...if you consider this is something that creates more problems than for what it's worth(which is of course, rather plausible), but I'd like to trust the mappers judgment in deciding whether or not to use this function intuitively. It's something that can either be terribly misused or otherwise, but we can take into account that ranking criteria will definitely not allow the former.

There is always going to be concern over these sort of things, the problem isn't in the functionality itself(And you should be aware of this), but rather how it can be abused.

I believe being very outrightly clear about the restrictions of this is enough, as with the variable slider-speeds. I'd advise to this being a rule, if anyone is ever going to ultilize it. It's also actually easier to take notice of if usage of this is granted to only Red Timing Sections. It also doesn't necessarily mean more things to check, maybe more things to consider, spacing-wise perhaps.

Maybe I'm desperately piling on a mountain of assurance over this, as the final decision lies in peppy's prudence.
jockeytiyan
1,269 posts
Joined July 2009
jockeytiyan

Faust wrote:

jockeytiyan wrote:

I just try to give a good idea but honestly, I don't have a good feeling about this unless problems that may arise can be given solutions beforehand.
Well...if you consider this is something that creates more problems than for what it's worth(which is of course, rather plausible), but I'd like to trust the mappers judgment in deciding whether or not to use this function intuitively. It's something that can either be terribly misused or otherwise, but we can take into account that ranking criteria will definitely not allow the former.

There is always going to be concern over these sort of things, the problem isn't in the functionality itself(And you should be aware of this), but rather how it can be abused.

I believe being very outrightly clear about the restrictions of this is enough, as with the variable slider-speeds. I'd advise to this being a rule, if anyone is ever going to ultilize it. It's also actually easier to take notice of if usage of this is granted to only Red Timing Sections. It also doesn't necessarily mean more things to check, maybe more things to consider, spacing-wise perhaps.

Maybe I'm desperately piling on a mountain of assurance over this, as the final decision lies in peppy's prudence.
Well, I was merely suggesting a possible compromise. We can't really avoid the issue of this getting abused, but I hightly trust modders to at least be able of good help in solving this part.

I don't consider this feature as entirely something that could cause more problems. However, it would be a good thing that thinking about the problems it may cause and at least be given solution to said problems can give the assurance that the others are looking for.
Lesjuh
Elite Mapper
2,442 posts
Joined October 2008
Lesjuh
Also mind how frustrating this could be when playing with mods, especially hidden because the AR has alot influence on that one. And that's just one of many reasons I'm against this.
Daru
osu!painter
866 posts
Joined August 2008
Daru
Remember Vertex?

Yeah.
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