17:43 ArcherLove: wa
17:43 ArcherLove: it's really weak sound--
17:44 Aqo: if you really want to emphasize that weak change
17:44 ArcherLove: you were right
17:44 Aqo: then at most do something like this
http://i.imgur.com/c4gkMKp.png17:44 ArcherLove: oh my how in the world you notice that very weak sound
17:44 Aqo: but changing the chord entirely feels wrong
17:44 Aqo: also
17:44 ArcherLove: ok I will do that
17:44 Aqo: I like analyzing a lot of complex songs
17:44 Aqo: lol
17:44 Aqo: so I notice all the little sounds
17:44 ArcherLove: very good ear
17:44 Aqo: I only chart vertically
17:44 ArcherLove: ok I do that
17:45 ArcherLove: I will change all of that kind of sound
17:45 Aqo: ok
17:45 ArcherLove:
http://puu.sh/na7PT/422b6ee371.png17:45 ArcherLove: should I make 4 chord or better 3?
17:45 ArcherLove: at last
17:45 Aqo: I think when making decisions like that
17:45 Aqo: you should take into account relative intensity
17:45 Aqo: and volume
17:46 Aqo: it also depends on the difficulty level you're making
17:46 Aqo: since most of this chart is double streams on this bpm
17:46 Aqo: I'd even use 5 chords
17:46 ArcherLove: hmm since it's only fade sound
17:46 ArcherLove: I think 3 is ok?
17:46 Aqo: also
17:46 Aqo: it gives you a better adjustment range
17:46 Aqo: listen to the difference between
17:47 Aqo: 00:01:275 - and 00:02:166 -
17:47 Aqo: the first one is stronger than the second one
17:47 Aqo: they're mostly the same, but second one has one synth layer at a lower volume
17:47 Aqo: instead of changing the chord like you did
17:47 Aqo: I'd lower the intensity by reducing 1 column
17:47 Aqo: from 5 to 4
17:47 Aqo: and make it 2/3 per hand on first one
17:47 ArcherLove: ah
17:47 Aqo: and 2/2 on second one
17:47 Aqo: to keep the balance for the player
17:47 Aqo: so for example
17:48 Aqo: like this
http://i.imgur.com/vDqmk7H.png17:48 Aqo: that way it doesn't matter if it's right hand or left hand player
17:48 Aqo: the pattern will always feel balanced
17:49 ArcherLove: hmm that's good
17:49 Aqo: while still emphasizing the change in the music
17:49 ArcherLove: ok take
17:49 Aqo: and also being consistent
17:49 Aqo: also
17:49 Aqo: 00:03:354 (3354|2,3502|4) -
17:49 Aqo: those two notes are different in the music
17:49 Aqo: but I'd put them on the same column
17:50 ArcherLove: alright
17:50 Aqo: because they're a completely different rhythm from the louder notes that are present around them
17:50 Aqo: and having variation on the smaller/weaker notes
17:50 Aqo: gives them too much emphasis
17:50 Aqo: it doesn't play as good
17:50 Aqo: also 00:03:651 - and so on
17:50 ArcherLove: roger changed
17:50 Aqo: the loud parts are copy-paste in the music
17:50 Aqo: so I'd also copy paste in the chart
17:50 ArcherLove: I'm working on that
17:50 ArcherLove: hmm
17:51 ArcherLove: I think a bit different but same density would be fine?
17:51 Aqo: it will be fine because that's the first impression the player gets
17:51 Aqo: when you keep it consistent and not random, the player knows very clearly what he's playing
17:51 Aqo: it makes it more fun like that
17:51 Aqo: feels more like you're actually playing the music
17:51 ArcherLove: ah
17:51 ArcherLove: yeah
17:51 Aqo: and not random training patterns
17:51 ArcherLove: it's bms-based chard
17:51 ArcherLove: *chart
17:51 Aqo: yes
17:51 ArcherLove: I should make that way
17:51 Aqo: bms is all about charting the music
17:51 Aqo: the player has to feel
17:51 Aqo: like the music comes out of his fingers
17:52 Aqo: 00:05:730 (5730|2,5730|4) -
17:52 Aqo: two notes for this for example
17:52 Aqo: is a bad idea
17:52 Aqo: there's exactly 1 instrument in use here
17:52 ArcherLove: 4?
17:52 Aqo: no matter how loud or intense it is
17:52 Aqo: I won't use more than 1 note for this
17:52 ArcherLove: should only 1?
17:52 Aqo: yes
17:52 Aqo: there are no layers in the music for this sound
17:53 Aqo: it's a pure single instrument
17:53 ArcherLove: well maybe modder will talk loud about this later but
17:53 ArcherLove: let's just change to 1 right now
17:53 ArcherLove: because this is bms-based
17:53 Aqo: also it feels more fun to play imo
17:53 Aqo: it's more exciting
17:53 ArcherLove: okk
17:53 Aqo: when you have shifts from small into big really fast
17:53 Aqo: keeps you in focus
17:54 Aqo: as for the big stream...
17:54 Aqo: I'm not sure what system you used to place it down
17:54 Aqo: it's hard for me to tell
17:54 Aqo: do you pay attention to blue ticks when placing streams?
17:54 ArcherLove: if 2 note
17:55 ArcherLove: =piano + 1 sound (ckckckck)
17:55 ArcherLove: for chord
17:55 Aqo: I mean position
17:55 ArcherLove: piano+ckck+kick
17:55 ArcherLove: hmm
17:55 Aqo: 00:06:101 (6101|1) - 00:06:250 (6250|5) - 00:06:547 (6547|4) -
17:55 ArcherLove: I guess PR and about simetrical
17:55 Aqo: if you look at just your blue ticks
17:55 ArcherLove: it's like
17:55 ArcherLove: "for playability"
17:55 ArcherLove: since I don't have much experience
17:55 ArcherLove: and when I play it feels nice---
17:55 ArcherLove: orz
17:56 Aqo: they create a shape like this
http://i.imgur.com/1484p1i.png17:56 Aqo: it's kinda random isn't it
17:56 ArcherLove: yeah
17:56 ArcherLove: but I don't think it's weird to play (?)
17:56 ArcherLove: since one of my bms friend said it feels nice
17:56 ArcherLove: idk too
17:56 Aqo: left, right, right, right, right, left, both, both, right, both, middle
17:56 Aqo: the balance here is very inconsistent
17:56 ArcherLove: ;;
17:56 Aqo: did your bms friend FC this?
17:57 Aqo: it's very hard to judge how good a stream pattern plays if you're not FCing it
17:57 Aqo: everything feels "fun" if you're barely surviving on it
17:57 Aqo: but only really well structured maps are fun to play if you're already doing well on them
17:57 ArcherLove: S'd .. at 96%
17:57 Aqo: pro
17:57 Aqo: ;w;
17:58 ArcherLove: and the other one
17:58 ArcherLove: named shadow
17:58 ArcherLove: bmshadow
17:58 Aqo: when I listen to this streamy part of the music
17:58 ArcherLove: only A because can't acc ww
17:58 Aqo: if I were to really simplify the music rhythm here
17:58 Aqo: it sounds like this
17:59 Aqo:
http://i.imgur.com/wNoaTCi.png17:59 Aqo: starting from 00:06:027 -
17:59 ArcherLove: oh that's so like
17:59 Aqo: can you hear this?
17:59 Aqo: there's a constant repeating synth
17:59 ArcherLove: yeah I can
17:59 Aqo: going from red beat to white beat
17:59 ArcherLove: it's the technical way to map
17:59 Aqo: yes
17:59 ArcherLove: but.. it's like
18:00 ArcherLove: killing hand orz
18:00 Aqo: I'm not saying I'll place the notes like this
18:00 ArcherLove: still inexperience with technical thing so I tried a bit 'messy' ones
18:00 Aqo: this is just the base rhythm
18:00 Aqo: now,
18:00 Aqo: if you listen to this rhythm
18:00 Aqo: you notice every 2 white lines
18:00 Aqo: the synth pitch changes
18:00 ArcherLove: yeah
18:00 ArcherLove: higher and higher
18:00 Aqo: and it always changes in the same direction
18:00 Aqo: yes
18:01 ArcherLove: xi style
18:01 Aqo: once you take that into account
18:01 Aqo:
http://i.imgur.com/NEZNtcE.png18:01 Aqo: this is the rhythm here
18:01 Aqo: its basic form
18:01 Aqo: now
18:01 Aqo: look at just the blue ticks
18:01 ArcherLove: okay
18:01 Aqo: the way they gradually move
18:01 Aqo: creates a lot of minitrills
18:02 Aqo: that feel nice to play
18:02 Aqo: it's 'consistent'
18:02 Aqo: but 'different'
18:02 ArcherLove: yes?
18:02 Aqo: hard to explain but like
18:02 Aqo: it plays nice...?
18:02 Aqo: and makes sense with the music
18:02 ArcherLove: hmm right
18:02 Aqo: there's also a drum here on each 1/1
18:02 Aqo: and every 2 white lines another synth
18:03 ArcherLove: thre is part I forgot to put drum at [1] so I change at [7] lol
18:03 Aqo: lol
18:03 ArcherLove: I just kind like mapping while moving
18:03 Aqo: and also if you want another layer
18:03 Aqo: it can follow its own logic
18:03 Aqo: to create a mix for the play
18:03 ArcherLove: higher"
18:03 Aqo: so lets say just regular opposite stair logic
18:03 ArcherLove: following the bass
18:04 Aqo: might be better to do it differently
18:04 Aqo: hmm
18:04 Aqo: for every blue tick on the right
18:04 Aqo: I'd place one on the left
18:04 Aqo: maybe try that
18:05 Aqo: lol zzzz
http://i.imgur.com/Hgi0WPh.png18:05 Aqo: well would need to think about it
18:05 Aqo: either way at this point it's not a suggestion
18:05 Aqo: just saying that the way my mapping system works
18:05 Aqo: I try to take into account both the music and the player's hands
18:05 ArcherLove: yeah yeah it's ok
18:05 Aqo: but I'm having a hard time telling your system on your streams
18:05 ArcherLove: I'm studying any kind of style
18:06 Aqo: it feels kinda random
18:06 ArcherLove: for future purpose
18:06 Aqo: if you run into situations
18:06 Aqo: where you feel like you forgot a note...
18:06 ArcherLove: I already tell my way of mapping is like "mapping while moving"
18:06 Aqo: then imo you should rethink your style
18:06 ArcherLove: yes
18:06 ArcherLove: ?
18:06 Aqo: try to map more vertically
18:06 Aqo: as in
18:06 Aqo: not chronologically
18:06 ArcherLove: well what can I say.. 1st try mapping alone bms..
18:06 Aqo: also try playing a lot of actual bms
18:06 ArcherLove: before, helped by someone (collab) ww
18:06 Aqo: to get ideas
18:07 Aqo: both play and then look at how it looks in the editor
18:09 ArcherLove: my PC broke
18:09 ArcherLove: rip 60gb
18:09 Aqo: 00:15:532 -
18:09 Aqo: back to your map
18:09 Aqo: starting from this point
18:09 ArcherLove: alright
18:09 Aqo: you map double streams
18:09 ArcherLove: PR?
18:09 Aqo: the music is literally
18:09 Aqo: empty
18:09 Aqo: it's just funny
18:10 Aqo: all ghost notes
18:10 Aqo: whhhy
18:10 ArcherLove: aaa
18:10 ArcherLove: 2 note for piano (?)
18:10 ArcherLove: it's like
18:10 ArcherLove: also from bms like
18:10 ArcherLove: doubling sound
18:11 ArcherLove: stuff like that (?)
18:11 Aqo: lol..
18:11 Aqo: this is all the music this part has
http://i.imgur.com/5BsmzI7.png18:11 ArcherLove: if many people against that I don't mind changing it~
18:11 Aqo: well, I'm not against overmapping
18:11 Aqo: but I find it funny how intense you map a calm part of the song
18:12 ArcherLove: aa haha
18:12 ArcherLove: rip ;;
18:12 ArcherLove: I guess
18:12 ArcherLove: for diff purpose (?)
18:12 Aqo: well that goes back to what I said earlier
18:12 Aqo: it makes it feel more like a random pattern training map
18:12 Aqo: than a map for the song
18:13 Aqo: might as well pick your favorite TV size song
18:13 Aqo: and map it the same way
18:13 Aqo: >w<
18:13 ArcherLove: too short
18:13 Aqo: lol
18:13 ArcherLove: I don't really enjoy mapping too short song @.@
18:13 ArcherLove: it's like
18:13 ArcherLove: less creativity
18:13 Aqo: so map the full ver of anime song :b
18:13 ArcherLove: when finish I feel empty
18:13 ArcherLove: TOO LONG
18:13 ArcherLove: sdasdas
18:13 ArcherLove: I'm complicated person /i/
18:14 Aqo: did I send you my 100% magical chart earlier?
18:14 ArcherLove: yes
18:14 *Aqo is listening to Tamura Yukari, Kanai Mika, Horie Yui - 100% Magical Star*
18:14 Aqo: anime short song
18:14 Aqo: also very overmapped
18:14 Aqo: but I don't think it lacks creativity ?_?
18:14 ArcherLove: uh
18:14 Aqo: has lots of variation
18:14 ArcherLove: it's just like self satisfication
18:14 Aqo: even that the music itself is really simple
18:14 Aqo: correct me if I'm wrong
18:14 ArcherLove: yeaah
18:14 Aqo: just saying you don't have to pick a long song
18:15 ArcherLove: but
18:15 Aqo: to find room to mix things up
18:15 ArcherLove: there is some song that's very good
18:15 ArcherLove: so I want to map TV size ww
18:15 Aqo: ww
18:17 Aqo: 01:14:938 -
18:17 Aqo: this part in your chart for example
18:17 Aqo: in the music it's very intense
18:17 Aqo: but in the chart it's low density
18:17 Aqo: compared to other parts you charted with high density like that empty part earlier
18:17 ArcherLove: uhh it's like
18:17 ArcherLove: resting?
18:18 Aqo: resting?
18:18 Aqo: here?
18:18 ArcherLove: you are right
18:18 ArcherLove: let's just
18:18 ArcherLove: not
18:18 ArcherLove: any suggestion?
18:18 Aqo: well
18:18 Aqo: again my overall suggestion for the chart would be
18:18 Aqo: to think about how you can make it vertically
18:19 Aqo: break down the entire song into parts
18:19 Aqo: think which parts feel intense
18:19 Aqo: which parts feel calm
18:19 Aqo: which parts repeat
18:19 Aqo: and which parts have variation in them
18:19 Aqo: and then put patterns accordingly
18:19 Aqo: intense parts get more density
18:19 Aqo: repeat parts get repeat blue ticks to give the player the right feels
18:19 Aqo: calm parts less density
18:19 Aqo: changing parts change the pattern
18:20 Aqo: etc
18:20 ArcherLove: okk
18:20 ArcherLove: ah
18:20 ArcherLove: about this
18:20 Aqo: it's easier to get the right idea when you consider the entire song
18:20 ArcherLove: this is ok?
http://puu.sh/na9IO/d49e2486ba.png18:20 ArcherLove: like
18:20 ArcherLove: vurst
18:20 ArcherLove: *burst
18:20 Aqo: you mean 01:16:423 - right
18:20 ArcherLove: is that kind of pattern acceptable?
18:20 ArcherLove: yes
18:20 Aqo: to be honest
18:20 Aqo: I have noooooooooo idea how to map 1/8 notes
18:21 Aqo: that's one aspect of mapping I have absolutely no idea about
18:21 ArcherLove: uhmm
18:21 Aqo: just do what feels right. it looks okay I guess? lol
18:21 ArcherLove: maybe it's good like this
18:21 ArcherLove: \w/
18:21 Aqo: I think this part
18:21 Aqo: 01:16:683 (76683|2,76720|1,76757|2) -
18:21 Aqo: is annoying to play
18:21 Aqo: would've been better if all 4 stairs faced the same direction imo
18:21 Aqo: that's all I can say
18:22 ArcherLove: ok
18:22 Aqo: playing a jack on yellow ticks
18:22 Aqo: is very hard...
18:22 Aqo: especially with same-hand also doing a stream
18:23 ArcherLove: er..
18:23 ArcherLove:
http://puu.sh/na9Rm/81462577f8.jpg ?
18:23 ArcherLove: so wrong--
18:23 ArcherLove: it feels
18:23 Aqo: yeah looks like a mess
18:23 Aqo: uhm
18:25 ArcherLove: lol
http://puu.sh/na9Yo/603defe881.jpg18:25 ArcherLove: spam right left right left
18:25 Aqo:
http://i.imgur.com/2MNMEDI.png18:26 ArcherLove: that's good also
18:27 Aqo: here
18:27 Aqo:
http://i.imgur.com/pMnuobO.png18:27 Aqo: found the right way to balance this
18:28 ArcherLove: oh o.o? I thought this
http://puu.sh/naabP/ac94bb519a.jpg good enough?
18:28 ArcherLove: should I change?
18:29 Aqo: it has balance issues
18:29 Aqo: look
18:29 Aqo:
http://i.imgur.com/qeq5fEB.png18:29 ArcherLove: well that's right
18:29 ArcherLove: changing
18:29 Aqo:
http://i.imgur.com/nln8Gs3.png18:29 Aqo: stuff like this feels "weird" when you play it
18:29 Aqo: also
18:29 Aqo: hand balance:
18:29 Aqo: imagine a left-handed player
18:30 ArcherLove: <-
18:30 Aqo: left hand:
http://i.imgur.com/g3hh2O8.png18:30 Aqo: right hand:
http://i.imgur.com/wUFUdEt.png18:30 Aqo: bad hand balance...
18:30 ArcherLove: dead thumb
18:30 ArcherLove: lol tiht
18:30 ArcherLove: *rightt
18:31 Aqo: damnit
18:32 Aqo: you made me think about this song too much
18:32 Aqo: now I want to chart it
18:32 Aqo: zzzz
18:32 ArcherLove: zzzzzzz
18:32 ArcherLove: great song
18:32 ArcherLove: \o\
18:32 Aqo: xi
18:33 ArcherLove: over the top
18:33 Aqo: loll
18:33 Aqo: by the way
18:33 Aqo: remember I told you earlier to use 1 note instead of 2
18:33 ArcherLove: yes?
18:33 Aqo: 01:21:844 (81844|1,81918|2,81992|3) -
18:33 Aqo: in parts like this
18:33 Aqo: I think it's better to unmap
18:33 Aqo: even that the music is there
18:33 Aqo: it makes the transition feel more intense
18:34 ArcherLove: hmm ok
18:34 Aqo: when you keep having 1/4 notes
18:34 Aqo: the player keeps reading at 100% of his attention
18:34 ArcherLove: resting part
18:34 Aqo: so the transition feels weak
18:34 Aqo: but if you put a whole 1/1 gap there
18:34 ArcherLove: okk del
18:34 Aqo: the player's attention drops a little
18:34 Aqo: and then the note on 01:22:067 - feels more intense
18:35 ArcherLove: right
18:35 ArcherLove: great think
18:36 ArcherLove: I should find for more weak transition to make a gap
18:36 ArcherLove: I think none
18:36 ArcherLove: :U
18:37 Aqo: best way to discover those things is just playtest yourself and experiment
18:37 ArcherLove: yup
18:37 ArcherLove: me can't pass
18:37 ArcherLove: not even 1minute
18:37 Aqo: and again... just play many existing popular bms and steal idea
18:37 Aqo: ww
18:37 ArcherLove: ww
18:37 ArcherLove: for now just watch some youtube play
18:37 ArcherLove: and niconico
18:38 ArcherLove: do you want some kudosu? we can mark this as irc
18:38 ArcherLove: I study a lot lol
18:38 Aqo: sure why not :b
18:38 Aqo: it's not really an organized mod tho
18:38 ArcherLove: 1 hour full irc
18:38 ArcherLove: it's ok
18:38 Aqo: lloool
18:38 Aqo: okay 1 hour = 1 kd
18:38 Aqo: xd
18:38 ArcherLove: you gave me many suggestion and it will comes good later /o/
18:38 ArcherLove: rip
18:38 ArcherLove: <_<
18:38 Aqo: I'm looking forward to your charts
18:38 Aqo:
18:39 Aqo: just please make playable things too not just impossible stuff haha
18:39 ArcherLove: thank you very much!~
18:39 Aqo: <-- noob. can't play that hard difficulty
18:39 Aqo: x_x
18:39 ArcherLove: I'm always make easier stuff if it's too hard haha
18:39 ArcherLove: maybe I will make 2 Insane
18:39 ArcherLove: well
18:39 ArcherLove: let's just see how it's going
18:39 Aqo: just make things that fit the song
18:39 Aqo: don't think about overall difficutly when mapping
18:39 Aqo: only relative difficulty inside the chart
18:40 Aqo: i.e. intense parts etc
18:40 ArcherLove: okkk