This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 10:53:29 PM

Artist: w_tre respect for AT&HU
Title: Schur's Theorem
Source: BMS
Tags: PMS Piano Algebra SUMMER 9KEYS FESTIVAL 2012
BPM: 185
Filesize: 2697kb
Play Time: 01:37
Difficulties Available:

1. Another - 7Key (3.82 stars, 1436 notes)
2. Beginner - 7Key (1.35 stars, 341 notes)
3. Black Another - 7Key (5.25 stars, 1977 notes)
4. Hyper - 7Key (3.04 stars, 989 notes)
5. Normal - 7Key (2.09 stars, 567 notes)

Download: w_tre respect for AT&HU - Schur's Theorem
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
w_tre respect for AT&HU - Schur's Theorem
Cool piano chart

Status: RANKED

A mix of BMS and osu sensibilities with unorthodox patterns

Ay lmao, modding in Spanish, practice for both of us yey
I'll mainly be focusing on pitch relevancy since my 7k skills are nonexistent

Column 1->7

Now that I ponder it a bit,
I should have modded in couplet.

Due to my lack of skills in 7K,
I was only able to make a short mod, so for pay,
have two stars if you may.

Edit: I forgot to skim over the hitsounds, I suck at this
Edit 2: My gammar sucks, and sorry hanannos T.T

Hi! Mod as requested by nobody. Prostatic just beat me to the 2 kds ;_;


Really fun map, I might post a mod for the two other diffs later if I have time. Good luck!

@Prostatic: don't worry about it, I don't have any use for kudosu anyway

Hiii Niv, How are you? o:
My pc has been nasty and I could not play osu a while, but that does not prevent a veeeery small mod for u, bruh.

Add to source: BMS maybe?
Add to tags: linear algebra

I owe yo' a full mod. [Soon. Only in cinemas(?)]

Protastic101 wrote:

Ay lmao, modding in Spanish, practice for both of us yey
I'll mainly be focusing on pitch relevancy since my 7k skills are nonexistent

Column 1->7

1/9, holy

[General]

1. Necesitas quitar los hitsounds soft-hitwhistleold y soft-hitclapold porque tu no usarlos. | ✓ sí
2. Te recomiendo que tu pongas el HP de Another mas alta porque tiene muchos notas y bursts.
3. El mismo ^^ pero con OD ~8.3 porque no tiene muchos LNs y tiene muchas notas. | ✓ vale, cambié el OD y HP a 7 -> 7.5 -> 8 -> 8.5 -> 9

[Easy]00:10:424 (10424|0) - Mueve a la columna de 6 o 7 porque el tono es mas alto de 00:10:262 (10262|4) - | ✓ aplicado, aunque necesité hacer varios otros cambios para mantener balance y whatever. También aplicado en la repetición
00:08:478 (8478|2) - Mueve a 2 porque es el mismo tono que 00:09:127 (9127|1) - | ✓ aplicado con cambios adicionales, y en la repetición
00:16:424 - 00:16:586 - Agrega notas porque el piano aqui tiene mucho enfasis? | es verdad que tiene énfasis, pero las últimas pocas notas siguen la melodía, así que creo es más importante representar el terminar de la melodía que continuar con el bajo.
00:20:802 (20802|2,20802|6,21451|5,21451|1) - Control J porque el tono en el primer acorde es menor que el tono del segundo acorde. | uh, creo que es más alto, en realidad
00:21:613 - Agrega nota? Porque el sono aqui es alto y facilmente audible como los otros sonidos | ✓ también moví otras notas para crear espacio
00:26:640 (26640|4,26640|2) - Reduzca a una nota porque es un sonido bajo a diferencia del otros notas como 00:25:991 (25991|0,25991|6,26316|5,26316|1) - | esto me parece extraño por algún razón. Tal vez es porque hay un 1/2 stream en el bajo y la melodía, así que no parece que los dobles representen los tamaños de los acordes exactamente sino el énfasis en general
00:29:883 - Los jacks aqui no tienen el mismo tono por eso no recomiendo que tu usas jacks, pero no es importante porque los jugadores no les importan cuando jugar XD | jaja sí, no voy a cambiarlos. Cuando se trata de jacks, creo que no es aconsejable concentrar demasiado en pitch.
00:38:964 (38964|4,38964|1,39289|3,39613|5) - Control J, el sonido esta disminuyendo. | ✓ buena idea. También lo hice en la repetición
00:40:100 - I'd consider mapping the dissonant piano chords like at 00:40:100 - 00:40:343 - 00:40:586 - 00:40:829 - etc. because they're so much louder than the surrounding harmony. | ugh lo sé, siente muy extraño seguir el bajo en lugar de los acordes, pero el ritmo sería muy difícil para Easy. No cambio por el momento
00:58:748 (58748|2,58748|4,59073|5,59073|1,59802|0,59802|2) - te sugiero tu usas dobles o una nota para este parte porque el enfasis es el mismo. | dobles son muy difícil, solos son muy facil
01:13:505 - Agrega un LN aqui y termina a 01:13:991 para el rollo de piano(?), similar a este parte 01:07:505 (67505|0) - | la diferencia entre los dos ejemplos es que el primero es más largo y pronunciado, mientras que el segundo funciona como una transición entre dos ideas más importantes. También quiero evitar LNs que empiezan en 1/2 snap

[Normal]00:05:235 a 00:05:883 - Pienso que este burst es mas dificil para un normal dificultad porque tiene muchas notas rapidas por dos beats | Hay un burst dos veces más largo en el final no sé si son demasiado difíciles, pensaré en eso
00:08:316 - Agrega una nota para el piano. En este dificil, no es *muy* dificil porque ya usaste 1/4 bursts. | ✓ tienes razon, aplicado, y en las repeticiones
00:11:478 a 00:11:721 - Agregas un 1/4 burst para el piano? Este parte tiene un sonido similar que 00:14:073 (14073|2,14154|3,14235|4) - | ✓ eh, originalmente no lo incluí porque sería difícil hacer un burst después de la síncopa (synopation), pero w/e aplicado aquí y en la repetición
00:15:289 - Porque no agregas un LN aqui para el rollo de piano como 00:14:964 (14964|1) - | es 1/4 aquí, solamente uso LNs para 1/6 o 1/8
00:18:856 (18856|5,18856|2,18856|6) - Este sonido es un poco mas bajo de 00:18:208 (18208|3,18208|4,18208|0,18532|1,18532|5,18532|4) por eso, solomente usas un nota doble? | esto me siente extraña también. Creo que el énfasis rítmico es el mismo incluso si el tamaño del acorde no es
00:21:451 (21451|1,21451|5,21451|2) - ^^
01:23:640 - For this burst, I think a straight 1->7 roll might be easier to hit, like so | lo que tengo ahora no es más difícil que 00:47:478 - o 01:36:044 -
01:33:774 (93774|3) - Porque no usas 1/4 burst aqui como 01:32:396 (92396|1,92477|2,92558|3,92639|4,92720|5,92801|6) porque es el mismo piano roll. | es 1/6 aquí

[Hard]00:26:478 (26478|2,26640|2) - Estas notas no estan el mismo tono, por eso mueve las notas a la otra columnas? | estoy bastante seguro que son el mismo tono en la melodía, aunque no en el bajo
00:46:586 a 00:46:748 - Usa 1/6 para el piano. Usaste 1/6 previamente a 00:34:586 (34586|1,34640|2,34694|3,34748|4) por eso no es muy dificil para este dificultad. | ✓ en realidad, esto es una mezcla de 1/4 y 1/6. no creía que sería muy difícil por la densidad, solo creí que el ritmo sería muy confuso. Voy a tratar un pattern que hace que es más fácil seguir el ritmo.
01:12:856 (72856|4,72856|6,73181|4,73181|2) - Porque usas doble notas aqui cuando el sonido no es diferente que notas como 01:11:883 (71883|4,72208|3,72532|1) ? | ummmm... structure? I definitely feel a natural emphasis on these last two beats based on the chord progression and melody, if not volume or chord size, and I do have a half-assed explanation based on my limited knowledge of music theory, but it's probably worthless. Also, yo hice una cosa similar en 00:15:613 -
01:25:667 - No notas para este sono aqui? Es muy alta y tiene mucho pesa en la musica. | I ran out of Spanish juice. Ok so originally I mapped the 1/8 right after this (believe it or not) and I had to take every opportunity to make this section easier, aka by ignore the bass notes. However, if I added a chord where you suggested I would also have to add it at 01:24:370 - and that's right next to 1/4 streams, which is a bit too hard. Besides, the melody cuts off right before the beat you suggested and starts again right after, which helps create the feeling that they're two separate layers and makes it less weird to ignore one of the layers.

Now that I ponder it a bit,
I should have modded in couplet.

Due to my lack of skills in 7K,
I was only able to make a short mod, so for pay,
have two stars if you may. | muchísimas gracias <3

Edit: I forgot to skim over the hitsounds, I suck at this

Random Hitsound suggestions that probably aren't helpful in the Another difficulty

1. Why didn't you just put the claps and whistles on the same note? | I thought it was more common to put hitsounds on separate notes unless you don't have enough notes o-o The clap represents the low sounds and the whistle represents the high sounds, so they go on different notes
2. Increase the sampleset volume because 16% is too low and I can barely hear anything. | 16% is USUALLY too quiet, but because all the sounds in the music have the same timbre (piano, obvs) I find the hitsounds super easy to hear. Easier than the hitsounds on most ranked maps, actually. Are you sure your audio settings are alright?

00:08:316 (8316|3) - If this note is the same in pitch as the previous triple, shouldn't you use the clap here instead of the whistle? | hitsounds here follow the bass layer, where the pattern is low-high-low-high the whole time
00:10:464 (10464|5,10505|6) - I'd also consider using claps here too so that there'll be a 1/6 mini roll using the same hitsound since the group of notges in the music sounds kind of similar. | again, bass layer. the group of notes that sound similar are in the melody layer and they do all have the same hitsound, soft-hitnormal
00:14:370 (14370|5,14424|6) - ^^
00:19:181 - Also, this note is really loud, maybe you should use a quad here instead. | ✓ LOL nice hitsound suggestion. jkjk good idea, applied
00:26:964 (26964|0,27127|2) - I'd suggest removing the claps here since it's like a lead in to the next measure and should let the clap accent only the downbeat at 00:27:289 - | That's only true in the melody layer. And, admittedly, the melody layer tends to decide the structure of this song. But my hitsounds are for bass so i'm going to follow the bass structure, which is an unbroken 1/2 progression
01:15:937 (75937|1,75937|2,75937|3) - I thought you only used triples on the 1/4 beats. Either way, it becomes much louder here (the hitsounds), so I dunno if you wanna try and drown it out by using a whistle with a clap here or something. | I have triples on 1/1, 1/2, and 1/4. They're spread out to give the same amount of weight to each hand while simultaneously filling up empty space. I agree that the inconsistent soft-hitnormal volume makes this part sound really weird in the editor, but that usually isn't an issue during gameplay and adding more whistles/claps would be inconsistent with my hitsound layering scheme (still following the bass)

Edit 2: My gammar sucks, and sorry hanannos T.T

Thanks for the mod, Protastic! 3-hour waiting time??? Man you deliver almost as fast as a pizza place

It took forever to write my responses but I did get practice

Don't worry about the hitsound check, I was mostly worried about inconsistencies (doubled hitsounds, missing hitsounds) so it's good that you didn't find any

hannanos wrote:

Hi! Mod as requested by nobody. Prostatic just beat me to the 2 kds ;_;

Mod

Columns are |1|2|3|4|5|6|7|

Offset: When I testplayed it, I was hitting about 2-3ms late on average but that could just be me. Anyway, apply the mods first before you look at the offset so the links don’t break

Easy:

00:45:451 - I’m being quite picky here (can’t find much else that I would change tbh) but I believe it would be nicer if this chord was [137] rather than [136] because it gives greater emphasis on this particular chord, since it is the all-important chord V (I assume that you play piano) and there is empty space afterwards. | ✓ sure, applied this and all the adjustments below. I don't know why you'd assume something like that but I do play piano AND I am really happy to know that I'm not the only one who makes chords based on musical structure!
00:42:856 - As a result, this chord will need to be different from the one above. If you did the thing above, my suggestion would be to change this to a [145] chord, since it has the same non-clean (idk how to put it but it sounds like there is a clash or to adjacent notes pressed on the piano) and also allows for the upwards movement in pitch to be represented. If you did this you may need to rearrange or repattern the notes before though: 00:40:262 (40262|1,40586|5,40910|1,41235|5,41559|2,41883|4,42208|2,42532|4)
01:24:370 - This part shouldn’t be changed though
01:29:559 (89559|1,89559|3,89559|5,90856|3,90856|2,90856|4,92153|6,92153|0,92153|3) - I’m really worried about the playability of this bit, especially since it is an Easy diff. You might want to remove the notes in lane 4 altogether because this is hard to time even for me (last chord in particular). If you want to keep the impact of the chords, you should remove 01:30:856 (90856|3) since there isn’t the emphasis on this chord that there is on the others | ✓ I removed 01:30:856 (90856|3) but kept the other lane-4 notes. You totally lost me on the playability thing. It's just... one chord per measure? With LNs connecting the chords? I'm not sure what could be giving you trouble about going from an LN to a spacebar note
One more comment about this diff is that the 3 note chords may be a bit difficult for Easy, but you know better than I do so it should be ok | I think it's safe to say all of these diffs are too hard for their designation ;n;

Medium:

00:26:640 - Change this chord to only 2 notes because it has less of an impact (and less notes from what I can hear) than the two previous chords. I recommend using [35] for pitch | ✓ I denied this suggestion in Protastic's mod but after two modders I changed my mind
00:44:154 - I would swap this chord with the chord at 00:45:451 for the same reason as in Easy (in the case of the chords you used, the second chord feels like it has a ‘clash’ while the third is more ‘open’ if you get what I mean). P.S. I also noticed here that the last chord doesn’t have a high note in the treble representing the 5th note in the scale, so I’m not as fussed about the chord choice here | ✓
01:08:154 (68154|0) - I would delete this note and just keep the single note in lane 7 because it sounds like there is only one note here (I can barely hear something lower pitched but I feel it represents the music better) | ✓ I don't know what lower pitched thing you're hearing lmao
01:25:667 - If you did the suggestion earlier, change this to a [2356] chord | ✓
01:32:153 (92153|3) - Again, as in Easy, this note makes it rather hard to time it correctly. However, I’m not too sure how else you could go about emphasising the chord, unless you rearranged the whole section | still don't understand this

Hard:

00:06:613 (6613|1,6694|2,6775|1,6856|2) - This trill (maybe unintentional) does not fit the music particularly well because of the different intervals. Maybe move 00:06:775 (6775|1) to lane 1 | ✓
00:11:802 (11802|1,11883|2,11964|1,12045|2) - Same as above | ✓
00:21:775 - Add another note here (maybe in 4) to emphasise the octave chord, and also because the following softer notes all have 1 note, so a 2 note chord can emphasise change in volume at the end of this phrase | ✓
00:27:289 - I love your use of the middle lane in this section |
00:48:127 (48127|1,48208|2,48289|1,48370|2) - Trill thing again | ✓
00:53:316 (53316|1,53397|2,53478|1,53559|2) - Same | ✓
00:59:559 (59559|4,59559|3) - Move these two notes to the right by 1 column to represent the pitch better (this particular chord is noticeably higher in pitch than the previous one, and the treble note goes down in pitch for the next chord, which is better represented by a transition from 6-5 rather than a note in lane 5 repeated (if I’m hearing stuff correctly)) | ✓ actually I was following a jack pattern which doesn't allow for this change, but it doesn't really matter
01:04:748 (64748|3,64748|4) - Same as above for these two notes | ✓
01:08:154 (68154|0) - Remove this note as in the Medium difficulty | ✓

Really fun map, I might post a mod for the two other diffs later if I have time. Good luck!

@Prostatic: don't worry about it, I don't have any use for kudosu anyway

Thanks a bunch hanna! Your suggestions are really in-tune with my mapping style

LinkTaylord wrote:

Hiii Niv, How are you? o:
My pc has been nasty and I could not play osu a while, but that does not prevent a veeeery small mod for u, bruh.

Add to source: BMS maybe?
Add to tags: linear algebra

I owe yo' a full mod. [Soon. Only in cinemas(?)]

Kk added, thanks ;n;

Linear algebra is a BMS diff name so it feels kinda weird to put a diff name from another set onto my set, but I know people associate it with this song so I might as well

The playability issue i'm talking about is mainly about hitting the thumb note on the last chord while releasing the other two LNs correctly. It is just harder to time the chord together, especially if score v2 is introduced (keeping in mind those playing easy diffs probably have developed very little finger independence and are still getting used to using thumb)

It could also just be me and my terrible acc from ftb LN scoring

Rough Thorough Consistency Check inc (aka half these suggestions might not make sense)

1/2/3/4/5/6/7



all the other diffs look fine (the 4-5 note chords in general are questionable but they're in decent places)

good luck with this man, love this set

hannanos wrote:

The playability issue i'm talking about is mainly about hitting the thumb note on the last chord while releasing the other two LNs correctly. It is just harder to time the chord together, especially if score v2 is introduced (keeping in mind those playing easy diffs probably have developed very little finger independence and are still getting used to using thumb)

It could also just be me and my terrible acc from ftb LN scoring

I understand how it would be difficult for a beginner to let go of two LNs and land on a thumb note, but all of the diffs include exceptionally tough spots where the music suggests it. Mostly I don't understand how players at your level could have a problem with essentially a 2* pattern

I'll definitely change it if someone else says the same thing

Hydria wrote:

Rough Thorough Consistency Check inc (aka half these suggestions might not make sense)

1/2/3/4/5/6/7

Another

00:03:937 - should be 4-note chord but I presume you've left it at 3 for 00:04:018 (4018|5) - | yep

00:04:181 - should be a 2-note chord since there's 2 different sounds here, maybe place a note at 2 | lmao I didn't notice until you pointed it out. But I think making the rhythm clear is more important than expressing the octave. It doesn't make sense for the left hand to jump into the stream on a 1/4 snap, and I can't add anything on the right hand because it ruins the trill thing at 00:04:018 (4018|5,4100|4,4181|5) -

00:11:721 - does this need a 3-note chord? | ✓ good point, made it 2 notes

00:13:505 (13505|4,13505|1,13586|5,13586|3) - should probably be the same density as 00:08:316 (8316|3,8316|1,8316|6,8397|4,8397|5,8397|2) - | ✓ bit awkward to make it fit the space, but I did add one note in the less dense version. They're far apart enough and similar enough intensity-wise that I don't think anyone will mind

00:26:478 - should be a 3-note chord | you mean because the previous two beats have 3-note chords? I think the artist purposefully removed the bass's emphases here and I only hear two pitches

00:48:045 - just looks like a repeat of 00:06:532 - so just go back and redo any suggestions made | ✓

01:11:883 - should be a 3-note chord | ✓

01:14:235 (74235|3,74235|4,74235|6) - shouldn't the red line have the 3-note chord and not this? same 01:15:370 (75370|5,75370|3,75370|6) - and so on unless I'm not hearing something specific in the song that warrants these 3-note chords | oh, they don't represent anything in the music. They just fill up the space and balance between hands. If I put all the 3-note chords on red lines then the middle lane would only be used in left-hand chords, which makes this section biased towards left-thumb players. I'm ok with this bias/unbalance if there are two layers, as you can consider lanes 1-4 one layer and lanes 5-7 the other layer, but I want to avoid it here because there's only one layer being mapped here and because it's the hardest part of the song. I admit it's inconsistent in chord size but I don't think it affects the gameplay as much as the imbalance. And I don't want to make ALL the chords 2 notes cus then it'll be too easy

01:24:451 (84451|1,84532|2,84613|3,84694|4,84775|5,84856|6,84937|5,85018|2,85073|1,85127|2,85181|3,85235|4,85289|5) - this reminds me of high-level ctb patterning, that's all | LOL

01:34:990 - put a note at 2 from earlier suggestion

Insane

00:09:775 (9775|0) - how come you've placed this note here but not on the another diff? | ✓ I actually do have an explanation for why absent notes feel slightly more intuitive in Another than Insane, but I don't really want to commit to that theory in this map because there are lots of places in Another where I could have used absent notes but didn't. So, uh, note added in Another

00:18:208 (18208|4,18208|6,18532|5,18532|0) - should probably be 3-note chords, same 00:20:802 (20802|2,20802|6,21127|3,21127|5) - | this is for difficulty consistency. Insane is based on 1/4 streams with 2-note chords, with larger chords only when there's no stream.

01:17:883 (77883|0,77883|6,77883|4,77883|3) - this is a 4-note chord here but only a 3-note chord on another? | ✓ meh I don't like the [67][45] pattern that results (for right-thumb gameplay) if I add a note in Another because it's so heavy and blocky, which doesn't fit anything in the song. That's why I originally left it out. But this sound definitely does deserve a 4-note chord, so, added

all the other diffs look fine (the 4-5 note chords in general are questionable but they're in decent places)

good luck with this man, love this set

Thanks a bunch ^^

Mark for mod.

Sry I should have modded this right now, but I'm too tired. Plz wait just one day.

Hi from CloudHolic's Mania modding queue!

Finally I can mod this. Sorry for late

0|1|2|3|4|5|6

Sup man, came to mod by request. Sorry for being late btw.

[General]
- The mp3 is alright, which is 128 kbps and corresponds to the ranking criteria, but i'll just give you a 192 kbps of it because people seem to prefer that. The offset should be the same since i just converted the same file to 192 kbps via audacity. The decision of changing is up to you of course, but it's pretty useless to do so lol :: http://puu.sh/qWQDt/6a984f07e4.mp3

- The BG seems cool matching its 4:3 aspect ratio with 640x480. But it seems that you're looking for a higher quality BG, i got a 1024 x 768 enlarged version of the current one. I think this was not what you were looking for, but i searched everywhere on google but couldn't find one :: http://puu.sh/qWS9x/f0396fdb9b.jpg

- Just a personal opinion, an OD and HP of 9 seem pretty high to me. No problems with it of course, but i recommend a smaller spread between the difficulties in order to make it an 8 point something. Example :: OD (0.3 spread) - 7 / 7.3 / 7.6 / 7.9 / 8.2 HP (0.4 spread) - 7 / 7.4 / 7.8 / 8.2 / 8.6

- I see that you put BMS on tags. However, i'm pretty sure that you need to put that on the source section since the song comes from that game. I can see that only in "Normal" difficulty it is done right ::


- Remove widescreen support for all difficulties except "Another"

- For me, the names Another and Insane indicate a similar level. So how about changing the name of the last difficulty to "Extra" or changing the current "Insane" to "Another" and "Another" to "Black Another"

- Normally, the offset is set where the first sound comes out, so i'd suggest setting it to 1343.

[Easy]
00:01:343 (1343|3) - i am assuming that you placed 3 notes because of the emptiness of the 1/4 snap that follows it. However, using more notes than a higher difficulty does not seem justifiable for me in my personal opinion. Plus, i personally think that you could still represent the 1/4 sounds with a LN, which for me makes the map more fun to play. So, remove the note i pointed out and place a LN in the 4th column starting in 00:01:586 - and terminating it in 00:01:991

00:02:640 (2640|3) - If you applied the previous mod, do the same with this note too. Overall, it will look like this :: http://puu.sh/qZgwL/c424417524.jpg
and do so too with 00:03:937 (3937|3) - this one. No need for 3 notes there either, it has the same density as 00:03:613 (3613|2) - this.

00:09:937 (9937|1,10262|3,10424|4) - how about making this part like this :: http://puu.sh/qZh9X/92e5997bbc.jpg The columns 1 and 7 seem to be very empty around that particular section and that pattern suits the song well too.

NEXT MODDING STARTS HERE

00:15:775 (15775|0) - if you hear the sound of the pitch here, this timing has it higher than 00:15:613 (15613|4) - so i'd move it to the right side following it. How about this :: http://puu.sh/rHKkm/92acc65ebc.jpg

00:16:748 - I definitely think that this timing deserves a note, it is clearly different and hearable compared to 00:19:343

00:22:100 - having this place empty makes me feel like this place is a resting time (idk how it's called) like in std mode. Filling it with some short notes that fits the rhythm and the song without using LNs since you're trying that could suit well like this :: http://puu.sh/rHKHl/055db699e5.jpg

00:32:478 ~ 00:38:316 - I'd place 00:32:802 (32802|1) - this in column 5 since the pitch it higher and the previous patterns were to the left and then to the right. In order to not destroy the patterns, i recommend doing Ctrl + H to all of the notes for the timing i pointed out.

00:47:559 (47559|5,47721|4,47883|3) - I definitely think that the mismatching beats should be modifies here. I do think that the notes should be where the first note is located even if it has to be placed in 1/4. However, if a note is placed in 00:47:964 - it sure makes it difficult for an Easy difficulty. So, how about this :: http://puu.sh/rHLfk/14ec0aecdd.jpg The LN covers what it could make it hard and it suits better the the gameplay.

01:11:721 (71721|4,72045|6) - Just a personal suggestion that this pattern fits better imo :: http://puu.sh/rHLte/266aa62f23.jpg

01:29:559 (89559|3) - I feel that this note is unnecessary in terms of difficulty and the flow of notes. Plus, you put more notes here in Normal difficulty and you didn't in this one 01:30:856

[Normal]
00:05:235 - Maybe move the 8 notes 1 column to the right so that newbie players can feel more comfortable? :: http://puu.sh/rHLHP/50157e6f95.jpg

00:10:100 (10100|5,10748|1) - Columns 1 and 7 seem pretty empty in this particular section, move the lower note to column 7 and the higher one to 1?

00:19:505 (19505|0,19505|3,19748|4,19748|1,19991|2,19991|5,20235|6,20235|3) - Doing Ctrl + H to this make the notes to actually follow the pitch of the song.

00:23:397 - It feels very empty for me, i'd place notes in this section. You placed 2 note patterns in Hyper difficulty so i think it fits well :: http://puu.sh/rHMCz/fd58d1e9c6.jpg

00:25:991 (25991|3,26316|3) - I think these two notes are unnecessary since the sound levels are equivalent to the previous timings that have 2 notes. I think you placed 3 in here in order to show the difference with 00:26:640 - but there is an option to reduce this to 1 note colocating it in column 4 :: http://puu.sh/rHMOI/d2aab95e7d.jpg

00:51:613 (51613|5,52262|1) - If you applied the previous mod of moving the notes to coulmns 7 and 1 this is also the place to do so since i can see that the patterns in this map are repetitive.

00:59:073 (59073|3) - I am pretty sure this note is unneeded because in hyper you used the same amount in the section which are 3 notes and it should be the same in this difficulty using 2 notes :: http://puu.sh/rHNaa/31546459ef.png

01:01:667 (61667|3) - 01:04:262 (64262|3) - 01:06:856 (66856|3) - Same as above, delete them.

01:13:505 - place a LN in coulmn 5 and move 01:13:991 (73991|4) - to column 7, it doesn't ignore the sound and a suitable pattern. I think that the LN should be placed because of this 01:07:505 (67505|2,67829|4,73991|6) - :: http://puu.sh/rHNqM/010c0f03e9.jpg

01:17:883 (77883|5) - moving this note to column 1 for me makes it better giving it a better handsuit to represent the finale of that particular section.

01:37:990 (97990|3) - how about reducing it to 4 notes deleting this note since in Beginner difficulty you placed 3 and in Hyper you placed 5 notes.

[Hyper]
00:06:045 - You've ignored to place notes in Beginner and Normal difficulty, but i think from Hyper deserves to have notes in this section. So i recommend placing them like this :: http://puu.sh/rHNTF/c46188dfc9.jpg

00:08:478 - Same reason as above, placing 1 note patterns in the upcoming 3 timings fit well since it also represents the sound difference with the previous notes that have 2 :: http://puu.sh/rHOeJ/8caabbcd54.jpg

00:09:694 (9694|2) - The pitch of this is lower than the previous one and i think this part's pattern quality can be enhanced with patterns like this to follow the song better :: http://puu.sh/rHOkJ/e72c0db91d.jpg

00:10:424 (10424|3,10464|4,10505|5) - Players that use the space bar key with their left hand could consider this pretty uncomfortable to play. So i recommend moving these 3 notes one column to the right.

00:11:478 (11478|4,11559|3) - I'd move them to columns 7 and 5 because the notes that follow this are stairs as a whole and a different pattern before entering that part could suit well.

00:16:424 - Once again, i do think that Hyper deserves to have these kinds of sections to have notes on it. A suitable pattern for this section :: http://puu.sh/rHOU3/17c1c93be5.jpg (notice that 00:16:748 (16748|1) - is moved to column 1)

00:19:181 (19181|6) - move to 3 for no reason

00:20:478 (20478|5) - column 1 seems too empty, so move this note to column 1. Also, i wanted to make it follow this intention :: http://puu.sh/rHP6x/60703b8046.jpg

00:24:370 (24370|3) - You used 2 notes in beginner, 3 notes in Normal and 5 notes in Another, how about reducing it to 4 deleting the middle short note and placing a note in 00:24:208 - for column 1

00:38:640 (38640|1,38802|3) - How about this pattern that for me is more flowable :: http://puu.sh/rHPS4/f8ef1e1657.jpg

00:50:397 ~ 00:57:694 - If you've modified a particular section in the mods, change them here too since this part is a repetition.

01:00:775 (60775|1) - it fits better collocating this note in column 4 in terms of flow and play of the song. If you did change this, 01:03:370 (63370|1) - 01:05:964 (65964|1) - these two timings are the same.

01:18:532 (78532|4,78856|2) - Aren't these too easy for this difficulty? It has the same note density as Normal difficulty so i think this part should be modified. One suggestion is this :: http://puu.sh/rHQw5/36c35b2404.jpg

[Another]
00:09:289 (9289|3) - Add a note here? the low pitch sound and high note sound both exist here and in Black Another you've used 3 notes. Column 2 would suit that

00:09:613 (9613|1) - I think this note should also have a note added since the high pitch note isn't empty like here 00:09:775 (9775|0) - I recommend adding it in column 5

00:11:883 (11883|2,12208|4) - you've placed 3 notes in timings like these in Black Another difficulty, i definitely think that you should add 1 note to these to maintain a proper difficulty spread.

00:17:802 (17802|2) - move this note to column 4 to keep this intention :: http://puu.sh/rHRM7/dde099efad.jpg It still fits well seeing it with the following pattern.

00:20:397 (20397|4) - 00:25:586 (25586|2) - Same as above, move to column 4.

00:37:829 (37829|2,38154|4) - Same as 00:11:883. You've placed 3 notes in timings like these in Black Another difficulty, i definitely think that you should add 1 note to these to maintain a proper difficulty spread.

00:50:397 ~ 00:57:694 - If you've modified a particular section in the mods, change them here too since this part is a repetition.

01:08:802 ~ 01:12:532 - Just like here 00:37:829 (37829|2,38154|4,72694|1,72856|2,73018|4,73181|5,73343|1) - The places that you put 2 notes for me it seems that it is low pitch + high pitch piano sounds. I know that i've pointed it out previously to maintain a proper difficulty spread, but i really think that Black Another having 3 notes and this having 1 isn't consistent for me.

01:18:045 - Fill out the emptiness, i definitely think that the second most difficult difficulty needs this timing to not be ignored :: http://puu.sh/rHSrQ/11d09b10f2.jpg

[Black Another]
00:04:181 (4181|5) - The sound that makes the following 2 note patterns possible is also here, adding a note in column 1 fits very well.

00:13:424 (13424|6) - Add a note in column 4. 00:11:154 - Consider this as a reference, the pitch is different but the part is still similar.

00:20:802 - Add a note in column 7. 00:18:208 (18208|6,18532|6) - The reason that makes these 4 notes is also in there.

00:38:964 (38964|5) - move to column 5 because it fits better and flows better imo

01:01:018 ~ 01:02:640 - how about a Ctrl + H for this entire section because repeating columns 1 and 2 until the end of this section is too challenging. There are 4 parts of these so i recommend parts 1 and 3 being on the left side and parts 2 and 4 on the right side.

01:13:505 ~ 01:13:910 - The current pattern does not seem clean for me, so i've rearranged it so see if you like it :: http://puu.sh/rHTrG/12147439c3.jpg

01:37:990 - As it is the last difficulty and you've used 5 notes in two lower difficulties, how about putting 6 notes having the middle column empty?

That's all for me, good luck!

CloudHolic wrote:

Hi from CloudHolic's Mania modding queue!

Finally I can mod this. Sorry for late

0|1|2|3|4|5|6

General

1. Volume is too small. It must be > 25%. | They're pretty audible. 25% is usually a good benchmark but I believe this song is an exception because the hitsound noises are so distinct from the song noises
2. Turn off 'Widescreen Support' option in all diffs except Another. | ✓

Easy

1. 00:27:613 ~ 00:36:694 - Move all the notes in -0.612s. The piano sounds larger here, at red line in 1/2 beat snap. | I agree that the 1/2 sounds are louder, but there's still a strong beat on the 1/1 regardless of the volume. 1/1 is also more natural for beginners to play
2. 00:39:937 ~ 00:41:762 - I think mapping main melody like you did in Normal is more natural. The beat sounds are not large. | ✓ I mapped the background layer because I thought the main rhythm was too difficult, but you're totally right. It doesn't feel natural. After getting the suggestion three times I decided to change it
3. 01:07:505 ~ 01:08:154 - This part is harder than Normal. I suggest swap Easy and Normal. | ✓ nice catch. I decided to just make Easy the same as Normal (you'll notice Hard has the same pattern as Normal, so this makes the most sense)
4. 01:21:451 ~ 01:23:275 - Same with above, in 00:39:937 ~ 00:41:762. | ✓

Normal

1. 00:01:343 - You place 3 notes here at Easy. Add one more. | Normal has a 1/4 stair right after this chord, which is basically the fastest pattern in this map, so I wanted to make the chords lighter to balance the difficulty. Easy has a lot of empty space in this section, so I'm pretty sure Normal is still harder in general, which is the important part
2. 00:02:640 - ^
3. 00:03:937 - ^
4. 01:07:505 ~ 01:08:154 - See the mod at Easy. I suggest swap Easy and Normal.

Hard

1. 00:24:370 - Delete one. | Er, what for? The large chord represents the sudden loud sound and I don't think it's too hard
2. 01:18:532 (78532|4,78856|2) - It's actually same with Normal. I suggest mapping base melody(01:18:532, 01:18:694, 01:18:856, 01:19:018), not stairs. | I see why you're concerned, but I think mapping the melody is more appropriate because almost all the other patterns in this diff follow the melody. In any case, I don't think it's important for each part of Hard to be more difficult than the corresponding part of Normal. Each diff has its own layering scheme, so sometimes the harder part of Normal happens to be the same as the easier part of Hard

Insane

1. It's quite easy. I expected > 4*. | I know, I thought it was too easy too. )^: However, it's difficult to increase the difficulty in this map while following the layering scheme, and I believe the gap between Insane and Another is still reasonable according to precedent.

Another

1. 00:22:100 ~ 00:24:045 - This part has small volume. So it doesn't match with that many notes. At each timing you use 3 notes, delete one. | I think the density is still reasonable. I prefer three notes because there's clearly a chord being played in the harmony, so I have 1 note for the melody and 2 notes for the harmony. By BMS standards this part might even be undercharted, cus it's actually a double stream in the melody
2. 00:42:856 ~ 00:43:829 - This stairs are same with Insane. How about make them double? | Same as earlier, I don't think it's too bad for two diffs to be the same in some places. Besides, for the layering style I used in this map it's entirely inappropriate to use a double stream when there's only a single stream in the music
3. 00:45:451 ~ 00:47:397 - ^

Don't worry about the delay Cloud, we all have more important stuff to do than osu ;n; Thank you for your suggestions!

hannanos: sorry, I forgot to respond to your offset suggestion. I don't see an offset issue in the editor, and I doubt 2-3 ms would make a difference in any case. I think people tend to hit late on speed-intensive maps, so maybe that could account for your late timing?

I skip any copy pastaed sections here, since you do use them quite a bit.


This was pretty short, but its not like there was much wrong.

Lass wrote:

Modding in progress, no kdz yet please

Sup man, came to mod by request. Sorry for being late btw. | no worries

[General]
- The mp3 is alright, which is 128 kbps and corresponds to the ranking criteria, but i'll just give you a 192 kbps of it because people seem to prefer that. The offset should be the same since i just converted the same file to 192 kbps via audacity. The decision of changing is up to you of course, but it's pretty useless to do so lol :: http://puu.sh/qWQDt/6a984f07e4.mp3 | people only prefer 192 kbps because it's higher quality, but if you convert a 128 kbps to a 192 kdps then it's the same quality... so it would actually be a bit misleading to repalce it. thanks though

- The BG seems cool matching its 4:3 aspect ratio with 640x480. But it seems that you're looking for a higher quality BG, i got a 1024 x 768 enlarged version of the current one. I think this was not what you were looking for, but i searched everywhere on google but couldn't find one :: http://puu.sh/qWS9x/f0396fdb9b.jpg | ✓ lmao thanks, but I'm still planning on replacing it later with a high quality image so you really didn't have to go to the trouble ;n;

- Just a personal opinion, an OD and HP of 9 seem pretty high to me. No problems with it of course, but i recommend a smaller spread between the difficulties in order to make it an 8 point something. Example :: OD (0.3 spread) - 7 / 7.3 / 7.6 / 7.9 / 8.2 HP (0.4 spread) - 7 / 7.4 / 7.8 / 8.2 / 8.6 | I think OD 9 is actually considered normal by a lot of community members for maps of this difficulty. HP 9 is just my preference

- I see that you put BMS on tags. However, i'm pretty sure that you need to put that on the source section since the song comes from that game. I can see that only in "Normal" difficulty it is done right :: | ✓ oops my bad. I also added some more tags cus I was going to have to do that eventually (source http://manbow.nothing.sh/event/event.cg ... f&event=80)


- Remove widescreen support for all difficulties except "Another" | for some reason it's already turned off? anyway you know this doesn't actually affect anything if there's no sb ;n;

- For me, the names Another and Insane indicate a similar level. So how about changing the name of the last difficulty to "Extra" or changing the current "Insane" to "Another" and "Another" to "Black Another" | ✓ I really had an aversion to the name Black Another for some reason, but I wanted to use at least one BMS name. But, you're right, Insane and Another are basically equivalent. So I'm just gonna bite the bullet, take your second suggestion, and change all the names to BMS ;n;

- Normally, the offset is set where the first sound comes out, so i'd suggest setting it to 1343. | ...well that doesn't affect the gameplay so I'm just gonna save myself the 2 minutes it would take to fix all the diffs

[Easy]
00:01:343 (1343|3) - i am assuming that you placed 3 notes because of the emptiness of the 1/4 snap that follows it. However, using more notes than a higher difficulty does not seem justifiable for me in my personal opinion. Plus, i personally think that you could still represent the 1/4 sounds with a LN, which for me makes the map more fun to play. So, remove the note i pointed out and place a LN in the 4th column starting in 00:01:586 - and terminating it in 00:01:991 - | you can only say there are "more notes" in Easy if you consider the chord without any of the context, which is silly because the context is important to determine the difficulty of a pattern. This section is clearly easier in Easy than in Normal, even if it has bigger chords. And as long as that's true, there's no reason to adhere to the "less notes in easier diffs" rule for its own sake. I'm also avoiding LNs in this mapset unless I have no choice

00:02:640 (2640|3) - If you applied the previous mod, do the same with this note too. Overall, it will look like this :: http://puu.sh/qZgwL/c424417524.jpg
and do so too with 00:03:937 (3937|3) - this one. No need for 3 notes there either, it has the same density as 00:03:613 (3613|2) - this.

00:09:937 (9937|1,10262|3,10424|4) - how about making this part like this :: http://puu.sh/qZh9X/92e5997bbc.jpg The columns 1 and 7 seem to be very empty around that particular section and that pattern suits the song well too. | no thanks; all the 1/2 runs in this section are unbroken stairs. the 1-3-5-7 pattern would only be inconsistent. I also don't care much about lane balance except when it makes a section inappropriately difficult

I'm applying the mod on Lass's request because they won't be able to finish the mod for a long time. This is also why I gave kudosu despite what Lass said in the post

Thanks a ton for the thorough metadata/resources/timg check! And a favorite too <3

Pope Gadget gave me a quick mod for Another (now Black Another) on Discord. He declined to post for kudosu, but I'll record his suggestions here

00:22:100 feels a bit dense
would remove a note for every three-note chord here | As I said in another mod response, I'm using BMS sensibilities that focus on amount of pitches rather than intensity of sound. I also didn't mention this last time, but I avoided "glued" notes here (chords with notes in consecutive lanes) to represent the lighter tone along with the slight reduction in density.

00:39:397 (39397|3,39451|2,39505|1,39559|0,39613|1,39667|2,39721|1,39775|0) -
01:20:910 (80910|3,80964|2,81018|1,81073|0,81127|1,81181|2,81235|1,81289|0) -
feel really awkward | Oh yes, very awkward MWAHAHAHA
I experimented with other patterns a while ago, but in the spirit of BMS I am focusing on pitch and structure over playability. Besides, that's the whole premise: unique and playful patterns for a unique and playful song. I'm of the firm opinion that the mania mapping meta is so player-friendly that it's become bland

00:58:424 is somewhat awkward, would prefer the trill be double-handed on the outside keys and have the notes on the right hand side be shifted left once or twice | I can use similar arguments to the last suggestion, but I also think putting the trill in one hand is much more faithful to the music as the two layers are divided left-and-right-hand on the piano

something about 01:13:991 is nigh impossible for me to play for some reason
most likely the central notes being right handed and left handed ends up throwing me off(edited)
change this bit so that the central column has a note every 1/1 instead to follow the background noise pitch change | This is a very good suggestion, but my original vision was a big diff spike that retains the back-and-forth motion without being biased towards either thumb. (In many cases I'm ok with thumb bias, but this is the hardest part of the map, and thumb bias makes more sense when there are two layers that are being laned rather than one cohesive layer.) In any case, this is supposed to be the hardest part of the map so I'm not worried too much

I didn't apply anything but I highly value your input! A couple more of these mods may change my mind ;n;

I haven't forgotten about you Ciel but I'm out of time atm

Ciel wrote:

I skip any copy pastaed sections here, since you do use them quite a bit.

[Another]
00:25:748 - I believe the background sound goes G3-G3-C4-E4 (along with another thing that goes G4-G3-C4-E4, but it's less audible). I think you are trying to avoid jacks, but it might be worth considering using one here. (Maybe on 5 or something) | Actually, I just didn't notice it lmao. I agree that the melody is quieter than the bass here. However, even after being alerted to the presence of the repeated pitch, I still feel like following the melody is more natural. I think it's because the repeated pitch blends so much at this speed (like I said, never noticed it before now) and the G->C change in pitch fits so intuitively with the rest of the line.
00:43:505 - You could move the first two notes to the left one column for maximum PR, probably not necessary since it breaks aesthetics. | Yes aesthetics, but also at 100% playback the pitches of the first three notes blend together so that I just kinda hear the high-low-high progression, if that makes sense, which is suggestive of the mini-trill thing here.
00:58:424 - Fuck you too <3 | <3
01:13:991 - What is going on in column 4 in this section? It seems pretty arbitrary, considering otherwise, the left hand and right hand are consistently alternating being used. | It is, um, actually arbitrary. My vision for this section was a) a dumb difficulty spike, b) unbroken back-and-forth motion, and c) no thumb bias, mostly because it's the hardest part. The intuitive thing to do is to put the three-note chords on every beat to represent the bass pattern, but that would either cause left thumb bias or ruin the back-and-forth motion. Instead I decided to arbitrarily space out the 3-note chords so that they occur alternating on both hands and so that they fill up the space in an evenly distributed manner, deciding that the chord size inconsistency would be tempered by the highly consistent note distribution and the fact that the player will be slamming each hand down in succession with equal force anyway. After reading this suggestion I decided I could at least assign an arbitrary pattern to the 3-note chords instead of just eyeballing it, but it turns out I unconsciously placed them in a perfect 7/4 rhythm except for the last two 3-note chords which are spaced to end the pattern at the right time. So there's that

[Insane]
00:16:910 - This part loses the elegance of Another, as the previous diff had a repeating pattern going progressively down. Probably should try to get that back in some form, not entirely sure how that would be done here. | ✓ I agree, I actually had misgivings about this part to start with. I've sacrificed the nice jack distribution of the old pattern for the elegance of a descending pattern http://puu.sh/r9nLi.png
01:15:613 - Not sure why you stopped spacing the double notes here with only 1 column of separation. It only lasts for a short time, so I assume it was for playability reasons? | ✓ I actually didn't notice, but even after you pointed it out it didn't really bother me. I think it's probably because the chords and stream put together are visually consistent, even if the chords considered individually aren't. In any case, I extended the section that deviates from donut chords (if you will) to the entire measure, so the pattern is now "donut measure -> not donut measure -> donut measure" and therefore looks more purposeful

This was pretty short, but its not like there was much wrong.

Thanks a bunch Ciel! Even the shortest mods are valuable in today's economy

Nivrad00 wrote:

hannanos: sorry, I forgot to respond to your offset suggestion. I don't see an offset issue in the editor, and I doubt 2-3 ms would make a difference in any case. I think people tend to hit late on speed-intensive maps, so maybe that could account for your late timing?

o I just seen this

I think it is more likely my own mistiming rather than the map, the player could always do local offset of 2-3ms if they needed

Request from my thread
Maybe only that i can mod, it is way easier to mod that Jinjin's map (Doppelganger).
Nice map, but you should change the BG.