TheVileOne wrote:

I don't really want to remove my kiai. I have it there to signify large jumpy areas in my maps. They are the crescendos in my mapping. (Yes, I strongly believe your lack of kiai is a mistake, since kiai makes longer songs more enjoyable). That's your choice though, I find that my kiai gets me in the mood to push myself. I think my jumps would be harder to hit, at the crescendos without it.

Wall of text, inspired by your response.

SPOILER

I think you are misreading my mod post. I guess I shouldn't blame you, I was trying to group together several similar issues, and making generalizations about them. I was trying to point out that you were making inconsistent changes in your map, and some of them I didn't particularly like. I thought you might be experienced enough to understand what I meant without me having to spent a paragraph on each instance. I have not checked yet, so I don't know what exactly you have changed. I will do a full recheck when I get the chance.

My opinion of quality is different than yours, and that is fine within reason. Certain things though just should be avoided in any map. I gave you that which I thought is a flaw, and I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. If it looks like a vague generalization, and I do not provide a proper solution (That one I provided in the first part, was due to an early version of the mod which I rewrote), it is a safe bet that it's my opinion on the overall quality of the map or things that I disliked.

There was so many problematic areas that I couldn't figure exact solutions too, that I lumped as many describable ones that I could and left it to you to figure out what was fixable. That example I probably should have removed, but I neglectfully left it in, thinking it may still be usable. I will never expect you to use my solution exactly unless I specially recommend you to do so. That is why some of my suggestions (and opinions you misread as suggestions) might not work out, as I can't spend 5 hours testing all the suggestions I make and sometimes even I don't know how to fix it. If that is the case, I don't expect you to fix it, if you cannot.

Few maps are perfect. Not all flaws are fixable and some are even intentional (anti-jumps, jumps, variable snap changing). Effort is made to weed out non-quality affecting or gameplay affecting issues, but in the case with your difficulty, it really felt strange that I kept playing the same sections, but slightly slower or faster. I adjust my cursor to the rate the notes are moving, and I can identify when the pace slightly changes from my preferred pace.

That was one issue. Another issue was that you senselessly change the slider shapes and angles. It's a problem I never expected to see from you. It's usually the newbie mappers that I have to explain that you shouldn't change the slider shape each and every transition. Pattern alignment and form are also very important to me. In order for a part to be fitting, it must

1. Match the music and sound on-beat.
2. Be presented in an intuitive, and identifiable manner. (You must be able to identify it as a pattern)
3. It should be consistent with surrounding patterns if the beat doesn't change rhythm
4. The pattern matches the overall intended pacing and difficulty in a map.
5. The pattern's context is identifiable in the music (If the music is abstract, the pattern should be abstract, if the musics repeats patterns, the beat should repeat patterns. If the music is calm, the flow should be calm.)
6. You must have a reason to malign a pattern, and it must be done in a way that is visually appealing. (keep in mind that violating this rule does not mean your misaligned sequence is not a flaw. Maligned patterns are flawed patterns and may or may not be fitting.
7. A better pattern does not exist, or an existing flawed pattern can be made more perfect without negatively affecting the flow or stability of other patterns.

A word about the hitsounds. If you do not have a hitsound at the phrase start, then at least in taiko your difficulty will be flawed. I just mentioned it in case it could be feasible to incorporate it into your hitsounds. I didn't have the time or the patience to thoroughly test the hitsound pattern possibilities, so I just left it as an open-ended idea that you could give input on.

My job is not to give bad suggestions. My job is to critique your map, and give ideas that may or may not improve the map. I feel this is the role a MAT should have. There's no sense in just ignoring the things we don't like, because that gives no feedback to the mapper to change it so that it might be more enjoyable. There will always be maps that are incompatible, but I tend to be adamant in the cases that are almost enjoyable. This song was one of those almost there cases. If some of what I say isn't fixable or you choose not to fix it, then it will continue to not be enjoyable to me. That's fine for me, I do not have to play your difficulty, but if it came to ranking it, my opinion would be much more harsh.

If you read all of that, you can probably tell you have inspired me. I will try to inform users ahead of time of my modding approaches in my userpage to prevent further misunderstandings and hopefully inspire others to improve in their modding habits.

TheVileOne wrote:

Made some edits for clarity

Rest of my mod

Don't give kudosu please.

Vinyl's Normal

It started out rough, but it seems you found a good rhythm later on in the song. If you can make the start of the song as good as the end, then this map will be in good shape. It might need some minor remapping though.

00:07:384 (1) - Just looks better on the horizontal line or at the very least 2 units below the horizontal line. This is just how it needs to be. You'll have to figure out what to do with the other slider. Fixed.
The part after, I guess you could do this. http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/572021 I still don't like it, but your pattern choices aren't giving very many options. you may need to remap this start. It's fine the way it is.
00:11:076 (1) - Missing a finish D'oh, fixed.
00:18:461 (1) - Missing hitsounds on this. ^
00:20:307 (1,2) - I dislike the misalignment. I will not change this. 00:21:230 (2,1,2) - makes a nice symmetry.
00:26:769 (3,1,2,3) - Another random transition and formless pattern. your map is full of these and it makes me question whether this map is fixable. http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/569531 < better looking Better looking indeed
00:38:769 (3) - Move up two units to line up better with previous slider? Nah, it lines up still the way it is now.
00:44:307 (1) - Move last point down 1 unit. K
00:51:692 (1,2,3,4) - This is just a bizarre combo. I would prefer a more consistent pattern since the song isn't bizarre, but if you want to keep I guess you can wait for more opinions. I might change it. I may need more opinions for this.
00:58:153 (2,1) - I don't like rebounding off a repeat slider in this manner. Doesn't seem to fit the music. I'm sorry but I'm not sure how it could be fixed while keeping your patterns intact. http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/572025 < Could work. Reorganized
01:17:538 (1,2) - There's no hitsounds on these. Woops
01:19:384 (1) - Please have this follow the curve of the previous slider more. http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/572029 k
01:21:230 - Your combos are shorter here, compared to how you started the song. You should try to adopt one way of representing patterns. Fixed
01:31:384 (2,1) - Center the blanket. k
01:39:692 (1) - looks out of place in its current position. (IMO that triple looks out of place). I guess that's just my opinion that it doesn't look right. It's the same spacing, it's fine.
01:39:692 (1,2) - This snap doesn't have to stay 1.0 if you wanted to make a better transition here. Fixed
01:42:923 (3) - Odd that the actual triple in the music starts after the triple is finished. Don't you think? I used a 1/2 slider repeat instead of triples. Didn't want to overpower the triples.
01:44:307 (5) - Missing a clap Fixed
01:48:923 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Best mapped part in the whole song so far.
02:12:923 (1,2) - If you can get it to work, 1.0 will be better. whoops, thats fixed, thought it was 1/0 in the first place.
02:21:230 (3) - forgot a clap woops
02:40:153 (2) - ^ fixed

MMzz wrote:

Yo.

[General]
Make the audio lead-in 2000 as that is the minimum.

[Insane]
Run AIBat there are a ton of unsnapped circles here.
01:12:230 (3) - Use the hithat sound on this note, looks like you forgot to put it here.
01:19:384 (5) - New combo? It's not really needed but I think it defines the change in the music better.

[Hard]
I suggest tickrate 2 so that your longer slider's ticks catch the drum beats in the kiai parts. (It will also make sliders like this: 01:19:384 (1) - easier to understand because the ticks lead the player into the 3/4 beat.)
Done. I adjusted the volumes on all the slider ticks in the map to fit each area the best. I rather like the result.
00:24:923 (1) - Why is there a new combo here? It would make more sense to have the combo on 00:24:000 (5) - or 00:25:846 (3) - , follows the music better. Changed

And a bit of advice to you TVO. You should try and get out of the habit of doing this: 00:29:076 (1) - . Using a slider end to represent a stanza start doesn't play very well, but it can work in some cases like: 00:33:000 (1) - same goes if this were just a slider. There is explanation and music theory in this thread: t/58959&start=0 I'm terrible at explaining it but ziin did a great job. Noted, but I do not plan on making any such changes for this map. that case you mention at 29 seconds was an area that didn't really play right when I tried to map it the "right" way. I mean there are notes on blue ticks that I don't want to map and I think that particular combo is in a good position on the map. I know it's a flaw, but it's a minor one. The rest work quite well, and were quite intentional. Intentional flaws if you will.

MMzz wrote:

Yo.

[General]
Make the audio lead-in 2000 as that is the minimum.

[Hard]
I suggest tickrate 2 so that your longer slider's ticks catch the drum beats in the kiai parts. (It will also make sliders like this: 01:19:384 (1) - easier to understand because the ticks lead the player into the 3/4 beat.)
00:24:923 (1) - Why is there a new combo here? It would make more sense to have the combo on 00:24:000 (5) - or 00:25:846 (3) - , follows the music better.

And a bit of advice to you TVO. You should try and get out of the habit of doing this: 00:29:076 (1) - . Using a slider end to represent a stanza start doesn't play very well, but it can work in some cases like: 00:33:000 (1) - same goes if this were just a slider. There is explanation and music theory in this thread: t/58959&start=0 I'm terrible at explaining it but ziin did a great job.

[Normal]
I suggest tickrate 2 here aswell, read above in the hard's mod. Changed.
00:18:461 (1) - Add a clap to the tail? You seem to have forgotten it. Oops, fixed.
00:49:384 (2) - ^ ^

I also advise you read the advice and stuff I gave TVO, you do it a lot more than him. Noted aswell. I don't want to overpower these in my normal. Some of them are like there because I think they fit properly in my map. I also don't want to overpower the triplets. I do that for difficulty reasons. So instead I put a 1/2 repeat slider in some cases.

MMzz wrote:

[Oni]
01:12:461 (4) - k? Keep the rhythm going and relating to the previous patterns it feels kinda empty without a kat. Fixed, added a kat to the note right after this too
02:11:769 (2) - Delete this note? It would be a nice touch to take advantage in that skip-beat thing in the song. A nice break from the constant 1/2-1/4. Ehhhh, didn't really like this one, I think the constant 1/2 beat thats going on here fits better.
02:51:692 (2,1,1) - YAY VOCAL FINISHER EMPHASIS. <3 IKR!
03:02:307 (2) - Hey uh, there is a note inside this slider. lol Slider done got extended somehow, fixed.

You stole my Taiko Poni. ;_; Taiko Poni is best Poni

1. Match the music and sound on-beat.
2. Be presented in an intuitive, and identifiable manner. (You must be able to identify it as a pattern)
3. It should be consistent with surrounding patterns if the beat doesn't change rhythm
4. The pattern matches the overall intended pacing and difficulty in a map.
5. The pattern's context is identifiable in the music (If the music is abstract, the pattern should be abstract, if the musics repeats patterns, the beat should repeat patterns. If the music is calm, the flow should be calm.)
6. You must have a reason to malign a pattern, and it must be done in a way that is visually appealing. (keep in mind that violating this rule does not mean your misaligned sequence is not a flaw. Maligned patterns are flawed patterns and may or may not be fitting.
7. A better pattern does not exist, or an existing flawed pattern can be made more perfect without negatively affecting the flow or stability of other patterns.

_Gezo_ wrote:

I'll look at this asap !
(Maybe in a few minutes, if so I'll edit this post.)

Anyway, I am not fond of putting more notes unfortunately, I don't think this map deserves that much notes... To give you a fact, my Oni attempt barely had more notes (It was something about 550) as the song is very calm compared to other songs I have mapped.

Edit : Other than the density thing, everything applied. http://puu.sh/1QKNp

1. I'm getting about 10 ms late while testing this. However, I'm not trusting my universal offset as of lately so I'm wondering if you could get someone (or you) to confirm this or not.

1. 00:27:692 (1,2) - It would be neat to center (2) vertically like this and re-arrange the proceeding slider to follow distance snap.
2. 01:48:923 (1) - Shouldn't this be reversed so that it's endpoint is toward the next slider? It only makes sense.
3. 02:08:769 (4) - Align with (3).
4. 02:50:307 (1) - This is too soon after a spinner for an easy difficulty. Think in terms of a newer player playing this map for the first time; I'd imagine that they would need more time than this to recover from spinning.
5. 03:04:846 (2) - Don't stack circles under slider ends in an easy. It can be difficult to read for those of "easy" difficulty experience.

1. 00:07:384 (1) - There should be a finish at the beginning of this slider to accompany the piano sound.
2. 00:14:769 (1) - ^
3. 00:59:076 (1) - There should be a whistle here.
4. 01:06:461 (1) - Whistle at the beginning of this slider.
5. 01:42:923 (5) - You're missing a clap at the beginning of this slider.
6. 01:49:846 (2) - There should be a whistle at the end of this slider.
7. 01:58:153 (1) - Whistle at the beginning of this slider.
8. 02:29:538 (5) - Clap at the end of this slider.

1. 00:43:846 (6) - This slider looks a bit wonky as it is. I fixed it for you, though.
   Slider picture and code

   
   

   264,80,43846,2,0,P|296:64|336:80|336:80|376:64|409:80,1,150,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0

2. 01:20:884 (2) - After not having 1/4 for most of the difficulty before this, this feels really out of place and awkward to play. I suggest removing it completely or moving it one 1/4 beat later to the red tick.
3. 02:12:923 (1) - Probably would be best to add a clap to the beginning of this slider.
4. 02:53:307 (5,1) - Move (5) one grid to the left and (1) one grid up to form a neat triangle pattern. If you do this, raise 02:54:461 (2) by one grid also for symmetry.

1. There's nothing really wrong that I could find here. Everything flows nicely, patterns are great, and sliders look nice.

Jacob wrote:

[TVO's Hard]

1. 00:43:846 (6) - This slider looks a bit wonky as it is. I fixed it for you, though.
   Slider picture and code

   
   

   264,80,43846,2,0,P|296:64|336:80|336:80|376:64|409:80,1,150,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0

   Flow is a bit worse, but done anyways.
2. 01:20:884 (2) - After not having 1/4 for most of the difficulty before this, this feels really out of place and awkward to play. I suggest removing it completely or moving it one 1/4 beat later to the red tick. sorry I like this transition. looks a bit strange but works nice with the hitsounds. (not to mention that there isn't a beat on the red tick)
3. 02:12:923 (1) - Probably would be best to add a clap to the beginning of this slider. <3 good suggestion
4. 02:53:307 (5,1) - Move (5) one grid to the left and (1) one grid up to form a neat triangle pattern. If you do this, raise 02:54:461 (2) by one grid also for symmetry. Yes

The last map I remember seeing from you is Psycho Teddy. Your mapping has improved a lot since then. Nice job. Thanks I was inspired by square jumps.

Sync wrote:

[Insane]
01:32:769 (4) - Why isn't there a hi-hat on the end of this slider? sounds pretty weird
01:43:384 (1) - Not sure why you discontinued the hi-hats from this section -- you had them there during the last kiai as well.
02:10:153 (7) - Again, no hi-hat on this repeat for some reason
02:31:846 (4) - same as 01:32:769 (4)
02:51:692 (8) - Definitely add a new combo here -- I even noticed it in-game. Pretty big transition here, should visually represent that with a new combo. Keeping the new combo on 02:53:307 (1) is fine. applied

[VinylDash's Normal]
CS-1 (or even 2 so the overlaps look better, it still works fine) to compensate for the rather large spacing in this map I'd say. Do as you wish.
applied

[Easy]
02:48:000 (1,2) - How come no drum sampleset? I can kind of see where you are getting at by not using it, but it'd still fit nicely and I honestly was surprised when it wasn't used while playing.
02:49:846 (3,1) - Add the new combo on (3) instead of (1).
applied

all suggestions, contact me again and we'll get this ranked once you're finished going through the mods