I think both sides have their points, however I think there are certain problems with some statements that I want to mention.
"Mappers' target audience is humans, not robots. Most of us, especially players, judge maps by feeling and intuition, not by how perfect and mathematically consistent they are. In this aspect, everyone is different, so everyone's experience and opinion will be different. There is not a single "correct" way of doing things. The strict "quality mapping" conventions that have been established (and could have been established in the first place just because of the small size of the mapping community) are just that - conventions."
This statement is correct, but immediately reveals a problem - if everyone experiences maps differently, are all mapping conventions arbitrary? Or to put it differently - which maps should be kept from getting ranked and which not? Where do we draw the line? So far, all pro-Phob comments in this context read like we could and should rank every map as long as it is following the ranking criteria, because otherwise we would just gatekeep stuff that a few players might like. The current mapping conventions are established for a reason - consistency as well as certain ways of expressing songs and structuring maps make maps understandable for other people, which I believe is a good standard to have for ranking a map, since the ranked section should serve the community, not the mappers' interest in expressing their creativity. The ranked section is also the only section where we do have quality control - it shouldn't be an inherently bad thing to make some maps loved instead or just letting them go to grave. That's why I think brushing off the current standards as "narrow-minded" isn't doing the current standards justice.
With that being said, I completely understand that people want to expand the scope of ranked mapping, since the vast majority of ranked maps feel similar. I do like certain aspects of Phob's diff, e.g. creating song expression through flow rather than emphasizing individual sounds. In that context, rhythm variety is fine as a concept, but still feels very arbitrary at times, e.g. having big rhythm gaps at 00:36:958 and 00:38:873 don't match the intensity of the song - in the context of the rest of the map that would only make sense to me if the song went silent here. The kiai also lacks a bit contrast imo - too much harsh movement and too little rest/recovery moments doesn't really serve the song expression imo (e.g. 00:56:426 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3) - ). Overall, the map doesn't feel coherent at all, which makes the mapping arbitrary to me. That viewpoint is also supported by https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2054394/discussion/4316952/general#/3954601, since that post only makes sense if you know that your map isn't following a coherent, graspable approach. I also think that is the main reason why Du5t is neither understanding nor approving this map (feel free to correct me here Du5t). You don't get the chance to explain your map to all the potential players out there, so needing to explain your map before people can understand it isn't really an applicable option imo.
I feel like the mappers who are trying to develop the state or ranked mapping are getting in their own way - whether it being stubborn (Kyptoric), arguably going too far (zhuxiaoyan, Phob to a certain extend here) or creating a multi account (Dako). It's pretty sad to see, since I think you guys already showed that you can map and rank stuff that feel refreshing (Starfall, Preserver of Fortune, bedroom community and more). Maybe these maps don't go far enough for you, but trying to go against basic, established mapping concepts in such an obvious way is understandably being gatekept by people who are relatively happy with the current situation. As I mentioned earlier, if we just accept these maps, it becomes completely unclear where to draw the line, which just opens up the ranked section for pretty much everything - which sounds like it holds some destructive potential to address that point of Phob.
All in all, I feel like meeting somewhere in the middle would be nice. Take a new idea and apply it with other known concepts in mind. Take one step at a time. On the one hand, our gamemode is in the unique position of having very playable and enjoyable converts, so leaning towards a more "quality control" based ranked section does make sense to me. On the other hand, the strength of a community based game isn't conformity, but diversity. I don't think there is a right opinion in terms of how ranked maps should look like and how they shouldn't. Just try to understand each other and understand that being part of a community means making compromises. Also understand that engaging in these kinds of discussions is effort - accusing BNs of complacency just because they present a different viewpoint than your own is counterproductive. Being BN is not a gainful employment; it's always a positive when they do something, not a negative when they don't. Either way, make sure to be nice to each other and have fun, otherwise it's not worthwhile to be part of this community, no matter how the mapping meta develops.
And now I go back into hibernation 😇
Switched the sliders that cover the strong piano sounds in both cases to vertical sliders instead since I think that provides a much better contrast to the surrounding patterns
I had my reasons to not use a hyper here (rather low pitched, low impact piano sound, also marking the upcoming build-up), but it's probably better to just use one, so I added it.
Gave the whole pattern a 10° angle. It's not much, but I never had any issues catching it and I don't want to make it underwhelming, so I hope it's enough.
Based take from Pieter. If I mapped it today, I would use a much higher SV and less tap-heavy patterning.
I think it's fine though; it does feel like an old Cup indeed and is still relatively easy due to the low density. I think adding it to the ranked section in it's current state to provide some sort of variety for Cups is fine.
I don't really see a notable difference between 8.2 and 8.3, if this was 8.0 I would have said sure but in this case I'll stick with the mappers original decision
boomer diff
idk what arc streams are but if you mean walkable stairs there is 0 chance, I hate that pattern
either way the whole diff is based on consistent emphasis so changing it up just here feels wrong and unexpected
I don't think the spacing is a huge issue (although I will reduce it a bit similar to other spots you've pointed out), so I think a regular suggestion would have been better.
What makes this sequence of notes worse is the uneven spacing between 01:27:565 (1,2,3) - , 01:28:001 (3,4) - and 01:28:219 (4,5,1) - , which makes the flow kinda awkward. I'll even it out
NCs have been swapped, I didn't change the "wiggle" (it's not really a wiggle) because it seems fine to me and this is the hardest cup of the set anyways
right now it's just one button press (hold left) which is fairly easy, but since the direction change at 00:16:874 (2,3) - might lead to people being late for the left hold I reduced them slightly