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Rule: The real spinner/combo rules

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mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
Topic Starter
mm201
It just came to my attention that AIBat has an excessively overzealous spinner/combo check that flags a lot of okay things as errors, and that modders are blindly following what it says.
The hard rule in this area is that a combo should never keep going across a spinner. osu! already enforces this.

You are allowed to remove the NC from a post-spinner note
You are allowed to remove the NC from the spinner following a pre-spinner note.
You are allowed to place double spinners or larger groups into the same combo.
More generally, if the spinner and objects tightly group together in a logical way, they can be made into one combo. (Exception being objects on both sides of a spinner.)

In all other cases, the spinner should have an NC and the object after should too.
Since the difference isn't obvious in the editor, please keep an eye out for spinners that accidentally don't have new combos.

Just as with AiMod, never treat anything AIBat says as absolute law.
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
The effects that this has:

As per all combos, the last object of a combo gives a significant hp increase compared to the other objects; whether the object is a circle, slider, or spinner is regardless.
Mapping phrases in entire combos with spinners now makes more sense.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
AIBat is more like a guide, just like AIMod, unless we can find a way to code it in a way that it follows the mapping techniques.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
This was thrown into AIBat (I might have requested it) because this is naturally what happens when you make spinners. The problem is that often times it happens accidentally. It's easy to delete a new combo and have the next note change color properly, but not be a new combo. Or just press q with a spinner selected. Since it doesn't change the colors, it's not easy to detect.

In my opinion, color change=new combo. Why spinners aren't forcibly made into all new combos is beyond me. Therefore I will never map to the point where I remove a new combo from where it should be as if I placed it normally in the osu editor in regards to the spinner.
akrolsmir
606 posts
Joined November 2010
akrolsmir
And here I had been wondering why osu! didn't force NC's for spinners and following notes.

I'm still keeping the check in AIBat though- the idea is to flag it for notice in case disabling NC was unintentional. I'll think about dividing AIBat warnings into serious and minor, or something like that, so cases like this could fall into the latter category.
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those

akrolsmir wrote:

the idea is to flag it for notice in case disabling NC was unintentional
Yes, we are now aware of this, but many people that use AIBat (unfortunately, myself as well) started to believe that spinners and post-spinner objects needed a new combo.
LKs
3,119 posts
Joined August 2009
LKs
I think it's time to give all the approximate issues a clear answer, too many issues are not covered by the criteria.

I even have a text to record some unallowed conditions I've met

btw the thread is helpful
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
Devs: I'd like to make clear one thing -

Is it that gives more HP, or is it last object in a combo that gives more HP?

Can a spinner ever give ?
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
4,298 posts
Joined July 2011
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/338224

lol
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
@those

Geki always gives more hp than a regular 300, so does Katu, but Geki gives more than Katu, and no, spinner cant have a Katu (unless it's in the same combo as a note that got 100'd)

On another note, the last note of a combo is always Geki/Katu unless the player 50'd or missed during that combo.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
Topic Starter
mm201
Sakura: Read up one.
Yes, a spinner can have a katsu marker if it belongs to the same combo as a pre-spinner note. The same rules apply as every other object.

ziin: There will always be a new combo--just not always two of them, which some people might have assumed.
Sure
4,219 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure
BTW why spinner still doesn't show 50?
I remember that someone said it would be fixed.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
Topic Starter
mm201
I thought it had been? (Unless it only made it as far as test...) Report as a bug I guess?
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
Topic Starter
mm201
Amended the wiki article with one rule and one guideline:

Rule:
There must be a new combo either on or after a group of spinners, so that the objects on opposing sides of the spinner(s) don't form a single combo. (osu! checks this automatically unless you are editing .osu files by hand.)
Guideline:
Generally, a spinner and the next object after a spinner should both have New Combo markers. You can remove one of the New Combos if the spinner belongs to the same musical thought as some objects around it, but use sparingly.
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