1. Atmosphere (6,02 stars, 1494 notes)

UndeadCapulet wrote:

From my queue:

General

You said ignore hitsounding, so I'm just going to assume you're going to fix the volume as well ooookay yes

Atmosphere

Go through your map with Stacking checked in the View tab in editor, and manually fix any stacking issues. Stuff like 00:09:853 (1,2,3,4) - looks horrible because of the osu! client's stacking system. You may also want to consider dropping the stack leniency to 2, since that fits with this mapping style, and with this song. (Don't you dare say this isn't important, look at this shit) don't know if I did it right...

00:11:423 (2,3) - Separate these more so the following spaced stream is more easily readable, right now the spacing is the same. fix
00:15:434 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The angles here are all rather steep and awkward, and use strange cursor flicking that doesn't really appear anywhere else in this difficulty, try to smooth the motions out here. okay, moved 00:16:132 (6,7,8) - to the top, works perfect now..
00:22:411 (1) - This slider looks really cool, but it doesn't really play well out of the stream, try to get the initial curve to follow the same curve the stream was traveling, then go into your crazy design. You could also have the slider start out by reversing the flow of the slider. Both of these options would play better than it is right now. okay good suggestion, smoothd out the stream to slider flow
00:36:365 (1) - Smooth out this slider degign, get rid of the awkward corners. Like so. yeaah
00:42:992 (1,2,3,4,1) - The previous 00:42:556 (6,1) - sideways streamjump kills most of the momentum the player needs to be carried through this spaced stream, due to how much the player is focusing on snapping the streamjumps. The current way this spaced stream is curved makes this whole motion really uncomfortable. Reversing the curve like this creates a complete bounce in the opposite direction and makes up for any momentum that was lost by the streamjumps; the player doesn't have to think as hard about a back-and-forth motion. If you don't like the overlaps, other solutions can be found as well to maintain the spacing but also maintaining the stream's flow, I just gave the easiest solution. I think that motion is comfortable to play because the changes at the wticks are first time a short stream "S" and after that the counter back to the spaced one. The overlaps you suggested are, as u said, too extreme, some players could also play my pattern easiert because they don't need a complete counter motion, you could also do it with one more curvy motion, becuase it is not a full bounce back. (not 180°)
01:06:365 (2,5) - I'd prefer if these were stacked, there's not really any reason to have any jump patterns here at all, stacking these makes enough distance between 4 and 5. Right now the pattern is a gap of 0 circles (2,3) to a gap of 1 circle (3,4) to a rather jarring gap of 3 circles (4,5). It feels better for the gap to be 2 circles. listen to the tone the distance is accurately proportial to the distance of the circles, I know what you mean, I tried many things and this worked best for me.
01:49:969 (3,4,5,1) - Look at the angle formed here, it's an uncomfortable acute angle of varying speeds. This isn't even including the 01:49:446 (2,3,4) - motion, which makes this part even more clunky. Move 3 somewhere over here, so the snapping from 2 to 3 to 4 is smoother. wow thanks, nice suggestion now this plays even better
01:51:713 (1) - I think the SV drop here is too much, it kills too much energy. I'm sure you want to be killing energy, but this is just too much to the point that things just feel off. You're already reversing the flow after the 5,6,1 motion, no need to drop the SV this much. SV 1.00x is fine. I think 0.7 would not work fine, as you said, if I had to move much after the slider, but you just have to go a bit down for the next pattern, that is also not a jump, so 0.7 ist really fine
02:06:713 (3,4,1,2) - You have the cursor moving upwards to hit 4 but then have it come back down to 4 and magically expect the player to be able to follow this curve, which is in the same direction as the jump, but at a different speed. This is super flowbreaking. Curve it back up like this (working in your bounces on claps obviously, I was just demonstrating the curve needed to make this motion playable). yeah that is right I really nearly failed here because of the distance and the direction speed change.. But I think I will just rearrange the 4 1/4 sliders, not the whole stream..
02:21:539 (3) - You can make this a wobbly guitar slider and still make it look nice: http://puu.sh/imafM/783d0ed40c.jpg or something along the lines, basically just don't bunch things up so much. I don't bunch up too much at all! I follow my intuition, but okay your slider suggestion is nicer<3 changed it something like this
02:42:295 (3) - Shift this down to here, it makes for a better snap to 4 when you factor in slider leniency and how the player is going to actually want to play this.okay!
02:51:713 (1,2,3,4) - Things will flow better if the sliders are layed out like this, right now your sliders are really haphazard and difficult to snap to. no the crossjump works better for me
03:01:481 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - Minor thing, but you can totally get this to work out so the last note stacks with the first note, even just by spacing out the last new combo more. minor, but good!
04:52:411 (3) - Personally, I don't like this double repeated slider. Putting a circle at the first white tick and having the slider repeat once from the red tick gives off a better feeling imo haha I know someone says something like that At this part I JUST use circles hahaha and I think it is just a short tricky thing which you know after you played this map once. But I understand u.
05:03:399 (2) - ctrl+g, so the flow doesn't feel so repetitive when combined with 05:02:876 (1) - . yeah feels better..
05:09:853 (1,2,1) - Line the sliderticks up with the center of the circle, things will look cleaner. yes, I try it haha.

If you're not going to map the whole break, at least map from 05:22:411 onwards .-. not doing so is just being lazy, this break is super dull and this part of the song really needs to be mapped. I map the whole break as a present for your beautiful mod!!

05:36:436 (1) - Nice thanks

Good luck!

Muya wrote:

yo

［General］
offset is a bit early. try change the offset: 100 (+14) ok +11

［Atmosphere］
please use hitsound, no hitsound map are can't rank I do them soon..
I'm not sure why using OD7.5, I think if Expert diff, least need a 8. yes 8 is good

00:11:248 (1,2,3) - change to 1/4 slider? http://puu.sh/inFY8/405130a136.jpg good idea
00:22:411 (1) - end at 00:23:458 - , and stack next circle? wow, the jump after that will also be cooler then!
00:51:365 (1) - why this slider is 3/4? yeah, fixed
01:05:667 (1) - move to x:160 y:220? maybe looks good fix, right
01:07:062 (6) - maybe need a new combo, (2,3,4,5,6) - are 1/2 part but (6,7) - are 1/1. I will think about
01:09:504 (3,4,5) - (4) need a new combo, or (4,5) more big spacing also
01:12:644 (4) - new combo? also, because I decided to combo every second tick because there are so few object I don't know if this is right?
01:14:911 (3,4,5) - same spacing here, maybe looks beter than now hm ok
01:28:253 (4,5,13,14) - I'm not sure this spacing, maybe you should be follow distance snap absolutely right, don't know how this happened
01:58:341 (1) - change to circle no this tone catches enough energy to be a slider like this
02:09:504 (3) - please use 1/4 snap, here is not 1/8 part. sure?
04:01:132 (4,1,2) - if changed offset, you will think wrong rhythm. I'm sure not. this is exactly like no matter if I change offset or not

good luck~

Snepif wrote:

Hey there from my m4m queue. ok, let's start answering this post ..

- I'm not sure about this, but I believe the BNs will make you remove "(long ver.)" from the title because that is not used anymore. Then again I'm not 100% sure. hmm ok will delete it
- You have like 4-5 combo colours that are almost the same? maybe this is intentionally have you though about this? also what is the problem with that, and they are not the same?? this really underlines my background colours.

Okay it's kinda difficult to point out specific things from this mapset because it is overall kinda messy (don't worry, after some work it will be much better).

Here's what I'm gonna do: I'll tell you generic things about your map's errors and then I'll point out clear examples and how to fix them.

- Rhythm-wise, most of the map is okay. However, there's something I like to call momentum and you break it in several parts. What I mean by "momentum" is when you have a clear rhythm going on, and you suddenly change it without any musical reason for doing so. Your rhythm has to both fit the music and be consistent throughout simillar parts of the song. For instance:

00:14:922 (7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4) - This pattern is unexpected and fails to fit with what the previous pattern suggested. I'll consider doing this instead:
remove 00:15:707 (2,4) and make a 5 note stream starting at 00:15:445 (1) - . That way it is consistent with the previous pattern. okay you are right here
Another example would be 00:19:980 (3) - . That slider makes the player feel like there is a pause or a hold in the music when there actually is none, and also, the rhythm in the music hasn't changed at all - yet you changed the map's rhythm. listen to the music you will here a specific tone which this slider nearly ALWAYS represents in this map. so this is consistent and there is no reason to change. also this slider appears here 01:26:957 (3) - and this is the same specific tone!
00:34:283 (4) - There is no beat in the music in this white tick. Listen at 0.25. This is what the music actually does: http://puu.sh/ip3FI/a7dbc61695.jpg my fault, but I did it right at any other place where this appears in the map.
00:37:771 (1,2,3,4,5) - This is a clear example of something you shouldn't do, as I explained before: the music keeps repeating the same 1/1 build-up stuff, and you were mapping 1/2s over it (which is okay because they were 1/2 sliders and you only actually click every 1/1 when playing). However, here you make sort of a break with really close 1/1 notes that are boring and actually BREAK that momentum that the 1/2 were building up - and for no musical reason, since the music is still the same. So what I mean is that these 1/1 notes make an artificial stop in the momentum of the map when there is none in the actual song. You should change them for 1/2 sliders. yes, I will equalize it
01:26:957 (3) - Another clear example of this. ?? 01:26:957 (3) - and 00:19:980 (3) - can you see the similarity?
01:46:143 (1) - Another perfect example of this. You were putting 1/1 sliders when the music held notes like this before. The music does the same as before here, yet you changed the 1/1 that you were using for a longer one - which makes no sense because it makes the map inconsistent and adds a break in the momentum that isn't necessary. The player will feel like this is bad because it holds a break for too long. I'd make it 1/1. nope I changed the part before and made it equally 1 1/2 slider

Another aspect of the rhythm:

04:52:422 (3) - You should NEVER, unless the music suggest that in a special way, use more than 1 repeat in sliders in Hard+. No player will ever expect there to be more than 1 repeat in a slider unless it's a 1/4 slider. maybe you would have noticed that in this kiai I try to ONLY use sliders so to emphasize three ticks without using circles is the only possibility to use a slider like this and also, you can NOT tell me I should not use a slider like this in insane/extra diffs..

Also, this part where you spammed sliders 1/4 apart from each other at 04:23:817 (1,2) - and so on feels kinda bad to play - mainly because they are so far apart, and also because it feels a bit overmapped, specially for a slow part like that. I really really don't know what you mean here. The music provides something what is BEST to emphasize it with these extended sliders. everybody else would have this opinion I'm sure that this part is not overmapped and no spam of anything-.-

Okay, now onto the map's core issue: pattern design.

This is where the map needs a lot of work. Your rhythm decisions aren't that bad once you follow my previous suggestions, but your design, your patterns, specially stream and slider's shapes, are literally a mess. Don't panic, everyone went through this, it requires practice, playing other maps, testing and remapping to improve your design choices, and I hope you can do that.

Most of the slider's shapes are random for no reason I can tell you the reason for EVERY SINGLE slider in my map, except sliders which I normally use in this map, there are three types of them:
1. Round sliders which turn back with ascending bending: 00:18:934 (3,4) - 01:36:899 (2) - 01:47:190 (3) - 01:58:701 (1,2) - 02:29:748 (2) - and so on
2. first degree- bended sliders with one red node after 2/3 of the sliderlength and then bend first degree again: 00:29:399 (1) - 00:31:841 (1) - 00:36:376 (1) - 00:39:341 (2) - 01:36:376 (1) - (<-- especially this one is important for the flow I want my map to have) 01:48:934 (1) - ....
3. Sliders with two white node and one red (not as a wave, as a counter) between them: 00:41:434 (5) - 00:32:713 (3) - ..., when in reality, most sliders don't need more than 1 middle point unless they are too long or the music suggests that it makes a special shape. Most sliders should just either be curves, straight lines or have 1 red dot, no more than that - take a look at most good maps, unless it's some really intentionally messy map like Skystar or something like that, there's no need to make random slider shapes without any musical reason to do so.
The main reasoning behind this is that a slider works as a flow change or flow continuation - if you make a weird shape on a slider, it will both slow it down unintentionally and force the player to make uncomfortable movements with the cursor there are so few sliders in my map which force the player to flow uncomfortable with his right hand, and that is not okay if you consider that a slider is meant to be a flow-tool (in most cases obviously). This gets worse with the fact that you used high sv - high sv and weird slider shapes don't go well together usually (emphasis in usually), and this is not an exception, sadly.

One example of a part of the song that could call for a weird shape and that is not bad, is 00:22:422 (1) - . However that is only an exception.
Most of your slider shapes could be simplified and made more polite, like:

00:18:934 (3,4) - Could mirror (1) and (2) one of the slidershapes which are normal, and in a cause of this, CONSISTENT, in my map.
00:29:399 (1) - If you take a moment to think what the cursor has to do to get here you'll realize it's uncomfortable some peopl call it "circular" or maybe "triangle" flow. Try to see the red node of the slider as a middle of a circle, what it actually is, if you argument with cursormotion. you will get 00:29:050 (6,7,1,2,3) - these + the imaginary circle and see, there is a right handed/rotating circular flow ESPECIALLY if you look at the line between the imaginary circle and (2)!! so I don't know why this motion should be uncomfortable.
00:32:190 (1,2,3) - This whole pattern is incredibly uncomfortable because you don't take into account the cursor movement of the player. You can't just place sliders randomly - you have to consider what the player has to do to actually play your map. Does it make a nice curve or line? Does it intentionally change flow in the opposite direction? Does it make you jump in certain equal angles from one note to another? etc. Let's take a look at how the player would have to move the cursor in this pattern. ok ok, let me explain this too. First, let's look at the music. NOWHERE in the song does exact this melody happen again. so it is not inconsistent. ok now the flow. have have to consider 00:32:190 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - . my purpose of the map is to make parts harder which has higher tones more atmospheric melody. So here the flow is like following: You have an extended slider, and after that you have to hit a circle which is not far from this slider and everytime UNDER the slider. so first the player has to do this with a slider which goes in positive x-direction. after that not far away from each other objects 00:32:190 (1,2) - , a JUMP to the next constellation, which this time is oriented in the negative x-direction 00:32:190 (1,2) - . and again press the circle which is UNDER the slider and then JUMP to 00:33:236 (5) - which is oriented circular, now you have to go UNDER this object to hit 00:33:585 (1) - clear? I did nothing random in this whole map, please consider this, if I have a ranked map or not, not everyone who has a bit crazy map and no ranked map, does everything random..
Your current pattern is like this: http://puu.sh/ip5ce/7cb7fc2b42.jpg
Now take a look at my random suggestion (doesn't necessarily have to be like this): http://puu.sh/ip5me/5d5f224be5.jpg
Now tell me which one you think feels better for a player? sure your's has more comfortable flow, but the question is, do I want it like this? easy during this special part in music where the melody has so much energy??
00:39:341 (2,3) - This is another example of slider shapes that, although aren't particullary awkward to play, look bad and messy without reason. 1 slider point would be okay. you're right, (2) is messy. I copy (3) and paste it instead of (2).
01:21:724 (4) - Here too. Do you really want to force the player to make this weird sudden curve in the slider? Because the slider (3) has no weird red-dot curve, and slider (4) follows the exact same musical thing, so why would it have a weird shape while (3) doesn't and is perfectly fine? this also has a reason, I want to keep the circular flow here (left rotation flow -> (4) is bended left) and also orient it to the next pattern, the stream, that is because it turns to the right with a red dot.
01:30:794 (1,3) - Same here. Both sliders follow the exact same musical tone and rhythm, yet they are so different one from another. Why is (1) smooth and (3) so weird? These are things that you have to consider when mapping, and it takes practice but you can do it! why weird, it represents the perfect cursormotion to the next circle ? just because not everyone uses sliders like this, if they have a reason, they are okay!

Now for the streams I can say the exact same thing. MOST of your streams seem randomly placed, spaced and are really uncomfortable to play for no reason at all. I just say lol, let us speak ingame about the streams. there are no inconsistent shapes. all streams are like this, so there is no reason to change and no random stream.
For instance, look at 00:34:631 (6,7,8,9,1) - . Why is it so spaced? And why is its shape so irregular? It looks like a nice smooth shape would fit the music better while being fun to play at the same time. Currently, this stream is not fun to play because it doesn't let you move the cursor freely according to the music, but rather, forces you to make uncomfortable shapes. What about fixing it like this: http://puu.sh/ip5X9/fe04b90b04.jpg no because there appears something what I map everytime the same. 00:34:195 (3,4,5,6) - , I know it is a bit wrong snapped here but you know what I mean: 01:52:248 (2,3,4,5) - 04:42:480 (3,4,5,6) - and so on.
00:42:306 (3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - What about this stream? Why is its shape so inconsistent and irregular, when the stream in the music is really all the same with no differences? It's not a guitar solo that builds up and finishes louder than it began or anything, then why would it be like this? I know it's like cool nowadays to make tons of spaced streams because EHUEHUEE 2015 mapping, but really, take a moment to analyze your decisions and your map will feel a lot better to play :3 it catches energy for the next jumps, we can also discuss why the stream is bigger spaced there ingame I'm exhausted in writing.. my tip take a look at the high tones in the melody and also what is the difference in the music during the first two parts of the stream and the spaced part?
01:18:759 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This would be another example. Not only it is too spaced (which could be OK in this part because of the music), but the shape will feel incredibly forced to a player. Most of the time you wanna apply the SAME logic to sliders and streams: smooth curves or lines that can let you feel the music and go with it, instead of forcing shapes and make you uncomfortable. this appears again and the special tones in the music provide something like this, it is also not too forcing because you can start exactly from the coordinates where the stream begins, don't say that is coincidence, that was my purpose, to make a spaced stream which is not too hard.
01:55:910 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - This is one of the worst offenders to this. This is both inconsistent and not-smooth - it will force the player to move the cursor awkwardly AND at different speeds without any musical reason for it. okay the spacing changes here are really a bit random, i'll change that, thanks..

Now, an example of a stream that is okay, because it lets you move the cursor without forcing it, and doesn't change the spacing without reason, would be:
02:28:003 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
and
04:18:236 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - why do you like a stream like this? and dislike other ones? I thought this one would cause the most discussion
both of these feel smooth to play, unlike the rest of your map's streams which forces you to uncomfy shapes.

Now last point, but not less important: your note placement.

Just like sliders and streams, notes can't be placed everywhere without taking into account the angles, distances, and patterns they create.
Take a look at this:
00:28:178 (2,3,4) - Why are these 3 notes so close to each other, when the previous patterns were jumpier? right, but is this really a problem, many mappers do that?? I can np you minimum of three maps where this happens.
01:04:283 (4) - Why is this note so far away when the rest were not? Is there any real musical reason for it? yes, and maybe, if you listen closely, you will hear it.
01:05:503 (6,7,1) - Why is this not a normal triplet? no, listen to the music, this also has a reason
01:16:666 (3,4,1) - This triplet sounds exactly the same music-wise as the last one, why is it so spaced when the last one wasn't? and it gets confusing with the next notes. ok let me explain these two parts with two words, I'm sure you get it:
00:57:306 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2) - straight lines
01:08:469 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - triangles

These are questions that you have to ask yourself when mapping - rather than just making the patterns and shapes random.
Of course it comes with time and you can't just learn right away, but I really hope this helped you improve a lot! Call me in-game if you have questions!