This is a repost from the the main topic, doing it by the request so its not going to get lost.
Ok so, after some discuss with Ephemeral, here are my key points in regards of what we should change and why. Gonna explain in-depth my each point here.
So I thought about that concept for quite some time and after talking with few people I feel like it may work for a long period of time, with some re-elections of QAT by voting on internal side of osu!staff or w/e.
It brings transparecy, removes any potential nepotism and gets things done as the community been asking for a while.
Ok so, after some discuss with Ephemeral, here are my key points in regards of what we should change and why. Gonna explain in-depth my each point here.
1. Remove QAT as we know them today, merge its members with BN/QAH
So... whats gonna change if we remove the QAT entirely? For now, there are only 2 issues: disqualifications and bn promotion, or, to put it simply, the difference between BN and QAT is only that QAT has a button to disqualify. They are essentially the same BN's but with red names and shit. Once in 6 weeks some of them examine BN apps and thats it. Technically removing the entire horizontal is more than viable here. Simply because nothing gonna change.
The system of promoting maps and getting them ranked works well, and QAT takes like 5% in it, its just not worth have an entire group of people who essentially do the same, but having more privileges and recognitions in comparison with BNs/QAHs.
Current QAT role is like a red tape for a bull, people just want it in sake of having it, nothing than that. Its just useless as it is now.
2. Reform QAH but they are still BNs with the same privileges but with more responsibility (idk about rewards)
Essentially, quality checks for the rank section are only performed by QAH. They should be able to DQ maps with unrank issues by themselves now. As I said above, just having a group of people who has a red button to DQ is stupid.
QAH do a lot of work and we should just make their lives easier. But not make them outstanding from the rest of BN's, to avoid unnecessary witch hunting for points and any kinds of racing. Just make these people equal. The ones who want to spend their time on quality - go ahead, if modding and promoting is your thing - sure, no problem.
3. Form a new QAT with 2 players 2 mappers and a CM
So here where the things get interesting.
We all agreed that the final decision should be made and we do need either bold rules or a group of people who wants to take responsibility. So while making rules for the mapping concepts is like ... well, nobody gonna agree on things there (lets be real now), we should form a group of people who gonna put their decision on controversial shit.
Since the maps can be judged off how they look and how they play, there should be representitives from both mappers and players sides. The ones we all could agree on, the ones who accomplished a lot and being respected by its community.
Lets say, there will be:
- probox - aspire winner, a very well known and respected mapper
- monstrata - same
- toy - literally the most respected guy in the entire community
- bubbleman - arguably one of the best tournament players that has been involved in the game for quite some time.
They are still quite enthusiastic in terms of helping out here, I believe.
There should also be a Community Manager - the one who gonna put the last word on the decision, also keeping the QAT/QAH/BN/Apps/Contests/Tournaments (etc) in the discipline
might be
- vinxis - the one who runs tournaments and contests smoothly, responsible and adequate guy. we all know him at this point
- ephe - ... yeah no explanation needed
- toy - ...
We do need someone to cover BN kicks, all these internal shitstorm inside the mappers community , cheating in tournaments, all other stuff that has been popping up in recent years. We do need that person, I really think so.
4. BN apps are on QAH/CM
So BN apps is just like an another dimensional topic here, but still we should basically restructure this thing as well.
Let me put this quickly: lots and lots of people are really unhappy/confused with who get into BN/QAT and why its happening.
How it is now: QAT's are checking stuff and then making decision whether the applicant matches THEIR standards or not.
Not gonna lie, it creates a HUGE space for corruption, biased decisions and so on. I can name literally tens of people who got denied for some vague reasoning like "mod more easy maps", and the next round like "mod more hard maps". When you put effort into something, you expect it to bounce back with some kind of rewards. Now we have the system that can waste people and fuck them over with no consequenses.
Looking from another angle: the mapping community is arguably toxic. One thing that makes people mad is that there are no bold rules in a lot of areas, so if someone does not like some kind of decision, he complains about certain person that fucked him up (like I still feel pretty selty modding non stop for 9 months and getting denied by Lasse/Deif for some nonsense, to the point where even other QAT's wasn't sure if these people were okay while checking my mods), instead if it would be a test, people would complain at themselves and start improving.
Thats fair. I am not going to propose anything in regards of tests and how they should be improved, its just another topic.
So here comes that aspect of attitude check - it is quite vague stuff, more vague than examining mods or judging maps. Putting it simply - if someone doesnt like you - youre not going anywhere in this game from a perspecive of mappers.
So what we should really do is to kick people off BNG forever if something like death threats, or some other bullshit like stalking and insulting others. Harsh punishments are making precedents for newer people to not repeat the same. Like, after 1-2 bns gonna be permanently removed from BN, everyone gonna start taking their position more seriously.
I do not mean here to kick people over their poor decisions on nominating, like nominating stuff with unsnap or w/e. Its all some light stuff that doesnt really mean anything much. In that case, if you constantly fucking up, therefore you getting kicked till the next 2 cycles are over (6 months).
5. DQ are on QAH
Yeah, they are already in charge of that, just give them the button and its all solved. Also, to add up, I think with this new QAH thing we should reconsider the amount of time needed to joing QAH, for instance, it could be 3 months instead of 1 like it is now.
6. Controversial shit is on CM / QAT
So here is that controversial stuff. I do think that Community Manager (CM) would improve the state of mapping community a lot. We just need either a huge set of rules or a guy everyone trusts to, to actually do stuff. So its also comes to BN kicks over some egregious sht.
QAT should be like a hidden group of people who dont take pressure from the community and managing one collective account to keep things going like a team. There are 5 people, uneven number to definitely ensure that the final decision will be made even if the votes will be 3-2 to some side.
So simply, QAT and BN arent touching each other much, being a QAT isnt reflected on your profile and so on, so people will not desparately fight for it in seek of power or achievements for their ego.
In other words, in that concept QAT is just some off-side thing that does its job by some special occasion, other than that the rest of the work will lay down on the BN/QAH as it is now.
So... whats gonna change if we remove the QAT entirely? For now, there are only 2 issues: disqualifications and bn promotion, or, to put it simply, the difference between BN and QAT is only that QAT has a button to disqualify. They are essentially the same BN's but with red names and shit. Once in 6 weeks some of them examine BN apps and thats it. Technically removing the entire horizontal is more than viable here. Simply because nothing gonna change.
The system of promoting maps and getting them ranked works well, and QAT takes like 5% in it, its just not worth have an entire group of people who essentially do the same, but having more privileges and recognitions in comparison with BNs/QAHs.
Current QAT role is like a red tape for a bull, people just want it in sake of having it, nothing than that. Its just useless as it is now.
2. Reform QAH but they are still BNs with the same privileges but with more responsibility (idk about rewards)
Essentially, quality checks for the rank section are only performed by QAH. They should be able to DQ maps with unrank issues by themselves now. As I said above, just having a group of people who has a red button to DQ is stupid.
QAH do a lot of work and we should just make their lives easier. But not make them outstanding from the rest of BN's, to avoid unnecessary witch hunting for points and any kinds of racing. Just make these people equal. The ones who want to spend their time on quality - go ahead, if modding and promoting is your thing - sure, no problem.
3. Form a new QAT with 2 players 2 mappers and a CM
So here where the things get interesting.
We all agreed that the final decision should be made and we do need either bold rules or a group of people who wants to take responsibility. So while making rules for the mapping concepts is like ... well, nobody gonna agree on things there (lets be real now), we should form a group of people who gonna put their decision on controversial shit.
Since the maps can be judged off how they look and how they play, there should be representitives from both mappers and players sides. The ones we all could agree on, the ones who accomplished a lot and being respected by its community.
Lets say, there will be:
- probox - aspire winner, a very well known and respected mapper
- monstrata - same
- toy - literally the most respected guy in the entire community
- bubbleman - arguably one of the best tournament players that has been involved in the game for quite some time.
They are still quite enthusiastic in terms of helping out here, I believe.
There should also be a Community Manager - the one who gonna put the last word on the decision, also keeping the QAT/QAH/BN/Apps/Contests/Tournaments (etc) in the discipline
might be
- vinxis - the one who runs tournaments and contests smoothly, responsible and adequate guy. we all know him at this point
- ephe - ... yeah no explanation needed
- toy - ...
We do need someone to cover BN kicks, all these internal shitstorm inside the mappers community , cheating in tournaments, all other stuff that has been popping up in recent years. We do need that person, I really think so.
4. BN apps are on QAH/CM
So BN apps is just like an another dimensional topic here, but still we should basically restructure this thing as well.
Let me put this quickly: lots and lots of people are really unhappy/confused with who get into BN/QAT and why its happening.
How it is now: QAT's are checking stuff and then making decision whether the applicant matches THEIR standards or not.
Not gonna lie, it creates a HUGE space for corruption, biased decisions and so on. I can name literally tens of people who got denied for some vague reasoning like "mod more easy maps", and the next round like "mod more hard maps". When you put effort into something, you expect it to bounce back with some kind of rewards. Now we have the system that can waste people and fuck them over with no consequenses.
Looking from another angle: the mapping community is arguably toxic. One thing that makes people mad is that there are no bold rules in a lot of areas, so if someone does not like some kind of decision, he complains about certain person that fucked him up (like I still feel pretty selty modding non stop for 9 months and getting denied by Lasse/Deif for some nonsense, to the point where even other QAT's wasn't sure if these people were okay while checking my mods), instead if it would be a test, people would complain at themselves and start improving.
Thats fair. I am not going to propose anything in regards of tests and how they should be improved, its just another topic.
So here comes that aspect of attitude check - it is quite vague stuff, more vague than examining mods or judging maps. Putting it simply - if someone doesnt like you - youre not going anywhere in this game from a perspecive of mappers.
So what we should really do is to kick people off BNG forever if something like death threats, or some other bullshit like stalking and insulting others. Harsh punishments are making precedents for newer people to not repeat the same. Like, after 1-2 bns gonna be permanently removed from BN, everyone gonna start taking their position more seriously.
I do not mean here to kick people over their poor decisions on nominating, like nominating stuff with unsnap or w/e. Its all some light stuff that doesnt really mean anything much. In that case, if you constantly fucking up, therefore you getting kicked till the next 2 cycles are over (6 months).
5. DQ are on QAH
Yeah, they are already in charge of that, just give them the button and its all solved. Also, to add up, I think with this new QAH thing we should reconsider the amount of time needed to joing QAH, for instance, it could be 3 months instead of 1 like it is now.
6. Controversial shit is on CM / QAT
So here is that controversial stuff. I do think that Community Manager (CM) would improve the state of mapping community a lot. We just need either a huge set of rules or a guy everyone trusts to, to actually do stuff. So its also comes to BN kicks over some egregious sht.
QAT should be like a hidden group of people who dont take pressure from the community and managing one collective account to keep things going like a team. There are 5 people, uneven number to definitely ensure that the final decision will be made even if the votes will be 3-2 to some side.
So simply, QAT and BN arent touching each other much, being a QAT isnt reflected on your profile and so on, so people will not desparately fight for it in seek of power or achievements for their ego.
In other words, in that concept QAT is just some off-side thing that does its job by some special occasion, other than that the rest of the work will lay down on the BN/QAH as it is now.
So I thought about that concept for quite some time and after talking with few people I feel like it may work for a long period of time, with some re-elections of QAT by voting on internal side of osu!staff or w/e.
It brings transparecy, removes any potential nepotism and gets things done as the community been asking for a while.