01:18 lolcubes: : yo d33d, mind playing something for me?
01:18 lolcubes: : might not really like the song, too mainstream, but i worked a long time on this and would love to hear opinions
01:18 lolcubes: : so i see what i should probably change and stuff
01:20 D33d: : Oh um
01:21 D33d: : I don't mind too many songs.
01:21 lolcubes: : it's catchy :p
01:21 D33d: : Link it to me and I'll play it when I wake up.
01:21 lolcubes: : and it's not hard
01:21 lolcubes: : sure
01:21 *lolcubes is listening to (K2 - What's Your Deep Wish?)[http://osu.ppy.sh/s/48721]
01:21 D33d: : Or at least look at it now, maybe
01:21 lolcubes: : timing is uh
01:21 lolcubes: : approximate
01:21 lolcubes: : it's really weird
01:21 D33d: : k then
01:21 lolcubes: : its playable even with OD10 but i know its not perfect haha
01:22 lolcubes: : im leaving it on only 3 red lines, this would probably need like 15 to make it perfect but i am just not good
01:22 lolcubes: : enough to catch all those spots completely
derp
01:23 D33d: : Just watching it for now.
01:24 D33d: : The jumps look readable, but I wonder if you could reduce them earlier in the map?
01:24 D33d: : Maybe before the first break.
01:25 D33d: : Furthermore, after a load of big jumps, the closeness here looks awkward 02:06:519-
01:25 lolcubes: : actually the jumps are identical but i will consider that, could be nice maybe
01:26 lolcubes: : keep in mind i didn't use distance snap for this map, at all
01:26 lolcubes: : haha
01:27 D33d: : I know that the jumps looks pretty consistent when they happen, but u.
01:27 D33d: : m
01:27 D33d: : I'm seeing a lot of similarity between 1/2 and 1/4 spacing.
01:27 lolcubes: : oh thats intentional
01:27 lolcubes: : red combo
01:27 lolcubes: : in contrast to purple
01:28 lolcubes: : and only on sliders
01:28 lolcubes: : when you notice it, it flows awesome
01:28 lolcubes: : but yeah im having problems making people notice it ><
01:28 D33d: : Also a big culprit: the jumps here 02:54:080 (1,2,3,4)- feel wholly inappropriate for a soft section and don't really
01:28 D33d: : match with the music.
01:28 D33d: : If people aren't noticing it, then it's too arbitrary. No matter how consistent it is.
01:30 lolcubes: : hm yeah that part i actually had someone telling me this, but i still feel that expressing the more intense vocal
01:30 lolcubes: : through spacing is not a bad idea
01:30 lolcubes: : but yeah ill have to think of lower spacing pattern here
01:30 lolcubes: : without overlapping
01:30 D33d: : shouldn't be hard
01:30 lolcubes: : believe me
01:30 lolcubes: : its extremely hard
01:30 lolcubes: : check how every object has it's place, in shadow of a previous object and foretelling where next objects could be
01:30 lolcubes: : the whole map is connected
01:31 D33d: : Don't rely too much on delayed alignment patterns and stuff.
01:31 D33d: : Concentrate on it to a point, but try to concentrate on how patterns work in proximity to each other.
01:31 D33d: : mm told me to stop doing fancy alignment things that few people would notice and it's helped.
01:32 lolcubes: : true, i took this one to an extreme because it's an experiment
01:32 lolcubes: : so far every single map i mapped is an experiment
01:32 D33d: : Also, I don't like the sudden inconsistence here: 01:24:097 (3,4)-
01:33 D33d: : wait never mind
01:33 lolcubes: : the SV vs spacing is cheating you
01:33 lolcubes: :
01:33 D33d: : Probably the SV versus spacing, yes
01:34 D33d: : I think it's more that the stack here 01:21:636- makes me want to hit the stack here 01:24:331- similarly.
01:34 D33d: : Um
01:34 D33d: : 01:24:331 -
01:35 D33d: : Especially when the spacing's similar.
01:35 lolcubes: : actually the spacing is far greater
01:35 lolcubes: : but i see your point
01:35 lolcubes: : maybe i should increase it
01:36 D33d: : It's ~1.9x for both.
01:36 lolcubes: : but because of the location on the timeline
01:36 lolcubes: : the physical spacing, while having same scale, is greater
01:37 D33d: : True, but that 1/4 offbeat seems to kind of implies that it might happen again.
01:39 D33d: : Also random half-speed slider, please no 01:33:941 -
01:39 lolcubes: : actually that one is not random, if you listen to the music
01:40 lolcubes: : you will hear the tension rising
01:40 lolcubes: : i feel that reducing the speed would make the player more aware to that sound
01:40 lolcubes: : to add dynamics
01:40 D33d: : No, the music doesn't really warrant it. The lack of ticks also makes it look like another 1/2 slider.
01:40 D33d: : Maybe slow it by 0.8x or something, but not 0.5
01:42 D33d: : Like you could easily do something cooler like this
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/39571801:42 D33d: : As the end of a section, symmetry makes sense.
01:42 lolcubes: : hm
01:43 D33d: : tbh, tick rate 2 could be better too.
01:43 lolcubes: : i might think of something else, i don't like your suggestion because i don't like perfectly horizontal symmetry
01:43 lolcubes: : and the 2nd slider isn't curved enough
01:43 lolcubes: : i actually originally had tick2
01:43 lolcubes: : but tick2 destroys some parts of the music
01:43 D33d: : I'm trying it now and it sounds nice with syncopated ticks.
01:43 lolcubes: : so id rather not to
01:43 lolcubes: : i know
01:43 lolcubes: : but some places just sound really weird :\
01:44 lolcubes: : especially the calm section
01:44 D33d: : Also, curve the sliders more and rotate it or just do something else that looks balanced.
01:44 lolcubes: : problem is, if i curve the 2nd slider good enough i will need to supercurve the first one, don't like that either
01:44 lolcubes: : hehe
01:44 lolcubes: : i'm just weird
01:44 D33d: : Then do something else.
01:44 D33d: : Anything but random SV changes.
01:45 D33d: : Hell, make a crumple if you like.
01:45 lolcubes: : well its not random but yeah ill try to think of something
01:45 lolcubes: : no crumple doesn't fit cause the sound im trying to express isn't distorted
01:45 D33d: : Also, the ticks sound fine in the slower section. They're extremely quiet anyway.
01:45 D33d: : Unless it's just my skin.
01:46 lolcubes: : they are quite loud if i don't lower the volume further
01:46 lolcubes: : and they do something i am against
01:46 D33d: : Even so, they add some momentum, which is kind of necessary.
01:46 lolcubes: : i don't want sound playing where there is not a distinct note in the music
01:46 lolcubes: : i cringe when i see most of todays maps
01:46 lolcubes: : due to triplets and god knows what other random streams
01:46 D33d: : No need to worry about that. They fill out the rhythm.
01:46 lolcubes: : over nothing
01:47 D33d: : Slider ticks aren't overmapping and tick rate 2 generally sounds fine.
01:47 lolcubes: : im trying it again and i dont like it, its too inconsistent
01:47 lolcubes: : its like
01:47 lolcubes: : its there for a while
01:47 lolcubes: : then its gone
01:47 lolcubes: : then its here again
01:47 D33d: : Eh.
01:48 lolcubes: : and sliders dont fit everywhere, im already overusing them slightly haha
01:48 D33d: : See, audible ticks would be perfectly okay here, because they complement the voice's vibrato 03:02:518 -
01:48 D33d: : Trust me; I'm a musician.
01:48 lolcubes: : so am i
01:48 lolcubes: :
01:48 D33d: : Yay.
01:48 lolcubes: : or, well, was
01:49 D33d: : Well I think that things that "don't fit" with the music can actually do the opposite.
01:49 lolcubes: : i know
01:49 lolcubes: : there is a map
01:49 D33d: : Not overmapping. As in, tick.s
01:49 D33d: : ticks
01:49 lolcubes: : a living example of that
01:49 D33d: : Well, 'You're the Inspiration' is a prime example.
01:49 lolcubes: : im talking about overmapping here now, thats the only map i approve of, even when it contains some
01:49 lolcubes: : shenanigans i dont like
01:49 lolcubes: : and i can tell you
01:50 lolcubes: : 99% of people will disagree with me
01:50 D33d: : For the longest time, I thought that the boops were part of the original track.
01:50 lolcubes: : and about 90% of that 99% will hate it
01:50 D33d: : And actual overmapping is bad.
01:50 lolcubes: : overmapping done right is when you add your own flavour without changing the taste
01:50 D33d: : But things like ticks--don't be afraid of hearing them in smoother sections.
01:50 lolcubes: : how i would like to describe it
01:50 D33d: : Yes.
01:50 D33d: : Use hitsounds to ADD to the music as well.
01:50 lolcubes: : yep
01:51 D33d: : nold's map really annoys me in that the 1/4 stacks feel entirely inconsequential to the music.
01:51 lolcubes: : oh man
01:51 lolcubes: : that map annoys me purely because of ar9 and spacing
01:51 lolcubes: : and some patterns which play awful
01:51 D33d: : But yeah, try to keep working with TR2 and see if you can adjust the ticks to make them work with the music. It
01:51 D33d: : should be doable.
01:51 D33d: : Yeah
01:51 D33d: : I didn't even get too far into the map.
01:52 lolcubes: : i actually like tick2 myself however it just doesn't work here
01:52 D33d: : Though I realised that later parts of it are flat out awkward.
01:52 lolcubes: : lots of my other maps are tick2
01:52 lolcubes: : :p
01:52 D33d: : Man it totally works, if only for the offbeat sliders.
01:52 D33d: : Ask around.
01:52 lolcubes: : i like it on rock songs
01:52 lolcubes: : or songs without a static beat type
01:53 D33d: : Yeah
01:53 lolcubes: : here, when i'm forced to follow the melody while ignoring the beat
01:53 lolcubes: : it just sounds too inconsistent to me
01:53 lolcubes: : thats why i have huge problems making a hard for this
01:53 lolcubes: : i need to balance it so it follows the music, rhythm mostly, without sucking
01:53 D33d: : Shouldn't be hard. Rhythms should feel consistent in hard anyway.
01:53 lolcubes: : i remapped my hard about 4 times now
01:53 lolcubes: : problem is
01:54 lolcubes: : it would be too similar to insane
01:54 D33d: : Also here 03:28:785 - if you're gonna overmap, then add some nice whistles or something
01:54 lolcubes: : and i'm weird enough to keep a linear difficulty increase throughout my diffs
01:54 lolcubes: : no overmapping for me, eveything i mapped is in the music
01:54 D33d: : Oh. I deleted it and didn't hear much behind it.
01:54 lolcubes: : its just that too many sounds play here so a whistle would be distracting imo
01:54 lolcubes: : its ticking noise
01:54 lolcubes: : which is like
01:55 D33d: : Embelish it anyway, because the soft-hitnormals sound drab
01:55 lolcubes: : 4 + 2 + 4 + 2
01:55 lolcubes: : its present the whole time i just chose to express it here to keep my usual progressive difficulty style
01:55 lolcubes: : for variety and fun
01:55 D33d: : Also the problem with [Hard] is that it's trying to follow the same rhythm over and over again.
01:55 lolcubes: : i know, thats the problem
01:55 lolcubes: : there aren't many rhythms here
01:55 D33d: : Don't be afraid to undermap a lot.
01:55 lolcubes: : and i dislike making my own when i have useful ones
01:55 D33d: : For example, you could double a lot of the sliders in length.
01:56 lolcubes: : that would be a bit too easy though
01:56 D33d: : Alternate.
01:56 lolcubes: : also when you have long sliders
01:56 lolcubes: : you lose the charm of the song
01:56 lolcubes: : because the song is somewhat sudden
01:56 lolcubes: : you dont feel the "jumps" between each section
01:56 D33d: : Not really.
01:56 lolcubes: : if you slider during it
01:56 lolcubes: : slide*
01:57 D33d: : Longer sliders and edgy patterns would make it work well enough.
01:57 lolcubes: : im most likely gonna remap hard again anyways haha
01:57 lolcubes: : except for a few cool patterns i never ever thought of
01:57 lolcubes: :
01:57 D33d: : Okay then.
01:57 lolcubes: : 00:43:785 (3,4,1,2,3,4,1) -
01:57 lolcubes: : i was amazed
01:57 lolcubes: : when i made this
01:57 lolcubes: : because it was by pure accident
01:58 D33d: : Not to go all ego, but I honestly think that it'd be worth taking cues from my 'I Remember' guest diff.
01:58 D33d: : You could have some sections with longer sliders 1/4 apart to create a skipping feel.
01:58 D33d: : I like doing stuff like that though
01:58 lolcubes: : dont get me wrong, im not gonna change everything you said, but i like to hear your perspective because most
01:58 lolcubes: : of the times, even if i dont accept a suggestion, i reuse that suggestion in a new map i create
01:58 lolcubes: : half of my mapping style comes from suggestions from other people haha
01:59 lolcubes: : but i will change some stuff and thanks for that
01:59 D33d: : By the power of sensible spacing and alignment, fancy patterns happen easily.
01:59 lolcubes: : opinions matter
01:59 D33d: : And yes, subjectivity's a significant factor.
01:59 lolcubes: : savelog this if you want a kd
01:59 lolcubes: :
02:00 D33d: : My aim with easier difficulties is to rely more on sliders, concentrate on creating phrases with space between them
02:00 D33d: : and to be more specific about what's emphasised.
02:00 D33d: : ANd thanks.
02:01 D33d: : I'll probably write a modpost too, but you can just KD me for this if you feel like it.