It is about time we start talking about this, with current sets being allowed a 8 diff max. (Personally I find that ridiculous.)

I think it is time we start ranking stand alone maps as in Taiko and Hurrrrrgh CtB. Of course these stand alone maps should follow the same rules in terms of diff spread, solving our ever growing problem of not having a diffs that someone new to the game mode can play, learn, and enjoy. We are already making charts and ranking modes for these maps the next logical step is to rank them as stand alones.

As for each game modes rules I have yet to really see much in terms of easy's and normal's for example I can think of a few.

Taiko:

Easy:
These diffs should consist of mostly red notes, the red to blue ratio should be around 2~4%

Normal:
Ratios of red to blue should be limited here too but given more leeway say 6~8%

Hard:
12~15%

CtB:

Easy:
Spacing should be reasonable with no hyper jumps.

Normal:
Increased spacing still no hyper jumps.

Hard:
Hyper jumps should be used very sparingly in this diff but should be allowed.

These are mostly commonsense but should still be followed

Wow, that's something I have planed to request in 2 years and you guys jump from one step to the other in a month, that's great.

But I will support this after for all three game-mods rules are avaible and approved, but you need to consider something really importand, too:
After we have those rules we would need something like a Taiko Approval Team and CTB.
(Sorry, but I don't belive BAT can manage Taiko modding for example.)
But to have such a Team this needs peppys agreedment and also many people who are worth to be in(but atm this is probably not the case) orz

Talked with wmfchris and he is right:


About taiko diffs I can tell you something more.

Kantaan: 1/1 notes
Futsu: 1/1 with some 1/2 notes.
Muzukashii: 1/2 with some 1/4 notes
Oni: 1/2~1/6 notes
Inner: Same as oni with complexer patterns
Ura: Same as Oni and Ura with more complexer patterns.

^ This is just a quick and smal view of it, didn't went into detail right now.

Edit: post updated, after I thought a bit more about it

I agree, taiko and CTB should also have a decent difficulty sprread ranging from Easy/Normal (Kantan/Futsuu) also afaik in Muzukashii is really rare to mix red or blue in a 1/4 triple most of the time is just a triple of ddd or triple of kkk

TnT authentic Kantan/Futsuu/Muzukashii would be something like this

Kantan - mostly don, few kat, only rarely 1/2
Futsuu - no 1/4 unless the BPM is *extremely* low, a few more kat
Muzukashii - a lot more kat, but ddd and kkk are basically the only 1/4 patterns that should be used, use 1/3 and 1/6 only rarely

I personally don't see a need to make other modding teams for these diffs in fact I know a bit about taiko in terms of real games I own alot of them, as for ctb it would be really hard to mess up a CTB map

ztrot wrote:

I personally don't see a need to make other modding teams for these diffs in fact I know a bit about taiko in terms of real games I own alot of them, as for ctb it would be really hard to mess up a CTB map

In this case it'll be fine, although we need sometime to pass and foster the taiko/ctb rules first

I really love this idea but I think CtB needs to improve the guidelines before that (while modding). For example you said no hypers for easy and normals but the hypers aren't the hardest thing to play in CtB, in fact they are easy to catch (well not if we have plenty of them on the same stanza but we got a rule for that, this rule just have to be adapted for normals and easys)... Non hyper jumps and wierd patterns like this one are the really hard things...

Well it really matter about the mods. It indicates that the percentage youve been looking is what they expexted. For example for the beginner for the osu standard and CtB (surely looking for the easy ones) they can easy play. As i discovered, some beginners are looking for easy but it is hard of them as they expected. Thats the first problem they will quit on playing (as i heared one of my friends) they really cant get playing on it, thats why they prefer on CtB's not the osu standard ...Following the rules is great , no more weird circles and jumps thingy just follow on it as soon as it can.

I agree this suggestion.

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1. No need to add new teams. XATs are not able to map them but at least, with their experience they can make sure there is no technical wrong, which is enough for ranking

2. Few of Taiko/CtB mappers map specific diff that easier than [Insane]. Yes 99% of they map Insane or Insane+, so I don't see needs to tell people what should a taiko Easy be or how hard should a CtB Normal be.

Don/Kat ratio? Well, difficulty of Taiko does not depend on that. It's not that simple. It's really hard to set some specific limits to decided how difficult a Taiko map is.

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About making a new teams....

I've been thinking about maintaining quality standards of Taiko maps from long long time ago. Something like TAT was suggested quite a long time ago, do you remember? In that time we don't have this many Taiko mappers so I didn't want to make a specific process for ranking a Taiko map cause that can suppress enthusiasm of new Taiko mappers.
But things are changed, since we are already talking about Taiko mapping standard or rules or something like that already, we also can make some effort to maintaining quality standard. Well, current BATs are already doing that for standard maps.

The problem is, to be honest, I doubt current BATs are capable to do that. We already have some cases about that, like this one (Mapset owner wrongly snapped every notes and both MAT and BAT missed it and ranked. Unranked due to that problem and reranked.) or this one. (Taiko map had technical problem, but BAT missed it and ranked. Never fixed cause BAT rejected to unrank it.) At least this can be helped by some experienced Taiko mappers, but without any authorization, how can you distinguish valuable suggestions from capable Taiko mappers and mumbles from not-so-talented-but-highly-active Taiko mappers? Can current BAT really decide it?

Also, current BAT already have bunch of load of works. Adding more new works to do? Well, I don't think it's going to be alright.

(Though yes, we have a thing to be finished first...)

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Currently almost every ranked Taiko maps are Oni. We always have only one diff slot per one mapset for Taiko, and Onis are good to present mapper's style or so, so it is natural for Taiko mappers makes Oni and give it to mapset owner. We already have standards for Kantan/Futsuu/Muzukashii/Oni(thanks for TnT), so I don't think we have a problem about that. (Though not so many Taiko guys in osu knows that.)

One thing: How exactly would we really make a CTB Easy that we couldn't just mindlessly SS like any Easy standard we have currently. If they can map an Easy CTB diff, they can set it up so that it plays well as at least a Normal difficulty in standard. So would we ever have a need to have rules for such a difficulty?

Although I don't know who in their right mind would have a hyperfruit in a CTB only labeled as Easy. That's just commonsense. We don't need a written rule for it.

Edit: I think an example map for simple patterns for a different difficulty based non-standard map would be more helpful. I mean we happened to overtime figure out what tends to be easy and difficult in standard. Perhaps we can show a prime example through a difficulty that would support a full difficulty set, where mappers can go through each difficulty and show the differences in rhythm. We could then show that "this is a typical Easy rhythm for Taiko or CTB, and this is more Normal.

I haven't checked the rules discussion for each particular difficulty in awhile, but the last time I checked, there wasn't much to say about different levels of difficulties. So what is considered an oni rhythm compared to an easier rhythm?

An equally important thing that needs to be considered is under what circumstance should a non standard set be allowed rather than a combination of standard and non-standard? Is there a circumstance?