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The reason why DMCA-strikes are (probably) justified

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Topic Starter
Railey2
The copyright-strike against despacito isn't a very hotly debated topic. There's not much to talk about, right?

A guy called Taiga was fed up with Sotark's pp-mapping antics and copyright striked his map.

The community seems to unanimously agree: "Fuck the person who did this, how dare he do this? This is going too far, he's endangering the whole game. Over a simple feud with a mapper?"

And while the death threats are steadily filling Taiga's inbox and a thousand competent teenage reddit psychologists steadily make progress in figuring out Taiga's motives (spoiler: the only thing these idiots ever come up with is "for attention"), everyone is ignoring two things:

1) Taiga is completely in the right here, because Despacito was actually a severe copyright infringement.
2) This is true whether or not anyone copyright-strikes it, and the game is at risk whether or not someone gets hung up on pp-maps.
.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________




who is the villain, Taiga or Sotarks?


Picking sides is fun, I get it, but this is a stupid question and a dangerous distraction. The answer that few people think of but that is the correct one, is: Neither. Everything we do here pales in comparison to the economic damage that this game causes the music industry.

When you download a map, you also download the song. You get a copy of the song on your harddrive, an mp3 file. You can put that file in your Itunes library, you can share it, you can do whatever the hell you want with it - for free. Sounds shady? Hold on tight, it's only getting better.

Let's be very generous and assume that only 10% of the songs in osu are infringing on copyright and should rightfully be taken down. There are currently 8.3 billion ranked plays. Some of those are on several difficulties of the same song, and some maps have the same songs, but then there's also unranked maps and maps that people download but never play. So, how many songs did people download? For simplicity sake, let's assume 10 billion. Sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. It's less than 80 songs per player, and active players often have more than 1000 songs on their harddrives.

10 000 000 000 songs, 10% of which are infringing (again, very generous). Say you SHOULD HAVE bought the infringing songs on Itunes for a price of $1.29...

I'll let you do the math, but let's just say that this is enough money to invite Luis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee to your private mansion to give you a lapdance while Despacito is playing in the background.

All of this has been going on for years, and it has nothing to do with either Sotarks or Taiga. Taiga might endanger the game by drawing attention to it, but more importantly: The game endangers itself by letting this madness continue for so long.

It's like a long time ago the game lit a fire in its own living room and still keeps it going to this day. Now someone threw a bit of fuel in it. Shouldn't we ask ourselves why the fire is there in the first place and why nobody seems to really care about putting it out for good?





this is a ranked map



Doesn't osu have a copyright policy?
Yes, but it's no better than "we'll look the other way until someone reports something". See if that holds up in a court of law.

This game has been setting itself up for a lawsuit of epic proportions and one day it might hit. Taiga or not. What can be done to prevent this?
The Featured artists were a good start, but sadly they never really caught on.

Maybe it would be wise to systematically remove every problematic map from the game, ranked or not. Possibly enlist the communities help, or even better - employ an algorithm that scans maps automatically and takes them down for further review if it detects a copyrighted song. After all, a game with fewer songs is better than no game.

As it stands, this game remains on the verge of utter legal destruction, and it's neither Taiga's nor Sotarks fault. It's the fault of years of continued sloppy copyright policy.

If osu gets shut down tomorrow, nobody can say that it didn't have it coming.
Flanster
A warning beforehand: Keep it civil and do not start fights please.
N0thingSpecial
If one DMCA would bring the attention of the entire music industry this game wouldn’t last 10 years

But I would still say it’s unnecessary to to intentionally DMCA a song
Meah
It's unfair for the artist to not gain anything for their works thus making it justified but the way it is done and mostly cause of grudge is just terrible
N0thingSpecial

Meah wrote:

It's unfair for the artist to not gain anything for their works thus making it justified but the way it is done and mostly cause of grudge is just terrible

Not saying what taiga did is right or wrong, but as a mapper if I did something to anger some stranger on the internet to copyright strike my map, I would re-evaluate my mapping career instead of victimising myself
Meah
Plot Twist: Taiga is actually a Sotarks fanboy and is a tsundere who managed to pull this "notice me senpai" thing
Praise me, I've seen through it
N0thingSpecial
I’m sorry but this is clearly Yandere behaviour
Meah
This is a great material for fanfictions
D_Loomz

Railey2 wrote:

it's neither Taiga's nor Sotarks fault. It's the fault of years of continued sloppy copyright policy.
Agree
Deva
So every time I download a map someone loses $1 (on average) because I didn't buy the song?

If someone took osu and the songs my osu folder contains from me I wouldn't cry over it and much less pay for the songs so I could listen to them once again.

Rather than a way to steal money from artists, osu is a way of artists getting free publicity. If someone doesn't intend to pay for their music they aren't going to pay for their music. So basically no one is really at loss. You can't steal money that never existed in the first place but you sure can talk about an artist and their songs and give them free publicity for well free.

if you think I'm wrong fite me
Topic Starter
Railey2

Deva wrote:

So every time I download a map someone loses $1 (on average) because I didn't buy the song?

If someone took osu and the songs my osu folder contains from me I wouldn't cry over it and much less pay for the songs so I could listen to them once again.

Rather than a way to steal money from artists, osu is a way of artists getting free publicity. If someone doesn't intend to pay for their music they aren't going to pay for their music. So basically no one is really at loss. You can't steal money that never existed in the first place but you sure can talk about an artist and their songs and give them free publicity for well free.

if you think I'm wrong fite me
You walk into a restaurant and order a full menu. After you've finished, you stand up and leave, without paying. However you do leave the restaurant owner a letter. After a couple minutes, they notice that you left without paying. The restaurant owner is about to call the police on you, when he notices the letter on the now vacant dinner table. He opens it and starts reading.

"Dear Mr. Restaurant owner,

the food was great! I'll make sure to tell my friends and leave you a good review on yelp. That should more than make up for the price that I should have paid for your product. I'll make sure to eat at your restaurants again soon!

Regards, Deva."
.

The owner of the restaurant is satisfied and looks forward to your next visi...


wait no that's bullshit.
It's not that someone loses money, it's that they have a claim on your money since you're already using their product even though you should have paid for it.
And I can assure you that there are companies that will absolutely press that claim. Let's picture another hypothetical scenario, a more serious one:

The Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment, Warner Music Group and EMI Group are suing peppy for creating a platform that illegally distributes their copyrighted media, while peppy is fully aware of everything illegal that's been going on and does nothing against it. There's a lot of money involved, we're talking millions of dollars. Do you think peppy is gonna get away saying that he paid with "publicity", so it's all fine?

I don't think so.


Maybe you could make a deal like that with individual artists, but not with multi billion dollar cooperations. And these cooperations.. if you cross them the wrong way, they'll fuck you hard. They'll fuck you on autopilot, they won't even think about it. They've fucked many others before, they have entire divisions, hundreds of employees that are dedicated just to fucking people. You have no idea what you're dealing with.
N0thingSpecial

Deva wrote:

Rather than a way to steal money from artists, osu is a way of artists getting free publicity. If someone doesn't intend to pay for their music they aren't going to pay for their music. So basically no one is really at loss. You can't steal money that never existed in the first place but you sure can talk about an artist and their songs and give them free publicity for well free

On a corporate level I don’t think they will think that way, they hire their own branding team, publicity isn’t really lacking. They want to squeeze out extra money by forcing the people who enjoy their music (myself included) to buy it only from them

To smaller artist this might work, Eminem give out mixtape at the very beginning and now he doesn’t do that to get publicity.

In the end it’s still intellectual property that the owner can take it down because of this stupid concept called rights
Deva

Railey2 wrote:

You walk into a restaurant and order a full menu. After you've finished, you stand up and leave, without paying. However you do leave the restaurant owner a letter. After a couple minutes, they notice that you left without paying. The restaurant owner is about to call the police on you, when he notices the covert on the now vacant dinner table. He opens it and starts reading.

"Dear Mr. Restaurant owner,

the food was great! I'll make sure to tell my friends and leave you a good review on yelp. That should more than make up for the price that I should have payed for your product. I'll make sure to eat at your restaurants again soon!

Regards, Deva."
.

The owner of the restaurant is satisfied and looks forward to your next visi...


wait no that's bullshit and so is your entire view on the topic.
It's not that someone loses money, it's that they have a claim on your money since you're already using their product even though you should have paid for it.
And I can assure you that there are companies that will absolutely press that claim. Let's picture another hypothetical scenario, a more serious one:

The Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment, Warner Music Group and EMI Group are suing peppy for creating a platform that illegally distributes their copyrighted media, while peppy is fully aware of everything illegal that's been going on and does nothing against it. There's a lot of money involved, we're talking millions of dollars. Do you think peppy is gonna get away saying that he paid with "publicity", so it's all fine?

I don't think so.


Maybe you could make a deal like that with individual artists, but not with multi billion dollar cooperations. And these cooperations.. if you cross them the wrong way, they'll fuck you hard. They'll fuck you on autopilot, they won't even think about it. They've fucked many others before, they have entire divisions, hundreds of employees that are dedicated just to fucking people. You have no idea what you're dealing with.
Well if that entire menu or lets say one dish for simplicitys sake, had to be prepared only once and it could feed the entire population simultaneously over and over again then your analogy would somewhat make sense, but that's not the case.

As for your more serious example big companies would do that for their reputations sake and sometimes just because they can and want to prove that they can even though most of the time they won't gain any money from it (or at least not an amount significant enough to justify doing it).

Also I'm not saying that what peppy did/is doing is right.

N0thingSpecial wrote:

On a corporate level I don’t think they will think that way, they hire their own branding team
why pay for something if you can get it for free?

As I already said if someone has intention of buying a song they will buy it. If someone doesn't want to buy a song they won't do it no matter how well it's advertised.
Ephemeral
There's not really much merit in discussing 'doomsday' scenarios like these. osu! is fully compliant with the DMCA and acts very swiftly to honor the will of rightsholders where it becomes apparent that their work is being used without permission in the game.

That being said, the music industry has developed well beyond the past of "1 download = 1 sale" - it is trivial for even young children to find ways to 'download' tracks from major artists these days. Piracy is sort of a cultural institution embedded into the way the internet is, and that isn't really going to ever change. The people who desire to purchase a given work will do so, or pay for services that allow them to access said content freely, and those who do not will just pirate the works to begin with.

osu!'s monetization is an absolute pittance for a service of its size, it doesn't offer ANY ads, it has no major partnerships or sponsors, the entire game is more or less a community funded endeavour. The tracks accompanying beatmaps are of barely 'acceptable' quality by music purchase standards (hence why anything above 192kbps is disallowed in a beatmapset). We're positioned quite firmly to view the tracks as a secondary necessity to any beatmap set, not their distribution as the main draw, if that makes sense.

To swing back onto the topic at hand, all of the Featured Artist tracks are fully licensed for usage in osu! and are 150% safe for use for mapping. There's over 500 of them at this point, and we're in talks with a variety of artists (and music labels) to gain blanket usage rights for their works. I'd say as is, we likely have a library of licensed music that rivals or perhaps even exceeds many other rhythm games out there, and it is only going to get larger as time goes by.

Leave the worrying about such eventualities to us and just enjoy the game, yeah? Licensing and whatnot is a great big legal tangle and the very definition of grey-area stuff, just know that we're acutely aware of these kind of things and have been working quite hard to keep things moving forward.
Stefan

N0thingSpecial wrote:

In the end it’s still intellectual property that the owner can take it down because of this stupid concept called rights


Yeah, it really sucks people can actually fight against stealing and replication of their content so people cannot profit from their effort and creations. /sarcasmoff

We know very well why exactly it is a thing that songs gets DMCA'd in osu!.
N0thingSpecial

Stefan wrote:

N0thingSpecial wrote:

In the end it’s still intellectual property that the owner can take it down because of this stupid concept called rights


Yeah, it really sucks people can actually fight against stealing and replication of their content so people cannot profit from their effort and creations. /sarcasmoff

We know very well why exactly it is a thing that songs gets DMCA'd in osu!.

We’re stepping into personal belief here, I’ll just respond with I agree and I see nothing wrong with the DMCA

Also thank you staff for everything
pineappleman
Well, speaking of copyrights, say that using the unlicensed "track" for the beatmap is forbidden, so we can't use most of the beatmaps uploaded so far.
Then, who has the copyright of the "maps"? Mappers? Track creater? Nobody?

I know it's a little irrelevant, but I really should know
Topic Starter
Railey2

Ephemeral wrote:

There's not really much merit in discussing 'doomsday' scenarios like these. osu! is fully compliant with the DMCA and acts very swiftly to honor the will of rightsholders where it becomes apparent that their work is being used without permission in the game.

That being said, the music industry has developed well beyond the past of "1 download = 1 sale" - it is trivial for even young children to find ways to 'download' tracks from major artists these days. Piracy is sort of a cultural institution embedded into the way the internet is, and that isn't really going to ever change. The people who desire to purchase a given work will do so, or pay for services that allow them to access said content freely, and those who do not will just pirate the works to begin with.

osu!'s monetization is an absolute pittance for a service of its size, it doesn't offer ANY ads, it has no major partnerships or sponsors, the entire game is more or less a community funded endeavour. The tracks accompanying beatmaps are of barely 'acceptable' quality by music purchase standards (hence why anything above 192kbps is disallowed in a beatmapset). We're positioned quite firmly to view the tracks as a secondary necessity to any beatmap set, not their distribution as the main draw, if that makes sense.

To swing back onto the topic at hand, all of the Featured Artist tracks are fully licensed for usage in osu! and are 150% safe for use for mapping. There's over 500 of them at this point, and we're in talks with a variety of artists (and music labels) to gain blanket usage rights for their works. I'd say as is, we likely have a library of licensed music that rivals or perhaps even exceeds many other rhythm games out there, and it is only going to get larger as time goes by.

Leave the worrying about such eventualities to us and just enjoy the game, yeah? Licensing and whatnot is a great big legal tangle and the very definition of grey-area stuff, just know that we're acutely aware of these kind of things and have been working quite hard to keep things moving forward.
the music industry has indeed moved past 1 download = 1 sale.

In Germany the current rate is 1 download = 1000€ fine in your face, and you better hope that you're a child then because you might get out of paying it. Legal landscapes can change rapidly. It might be a grey area now, but it's a grey area that can be exploited to osu's great disadvantage and in the future the grey area might just turn pitch black. In fact, you can expect it to turn pitch black. Laws always gravitate towards where the money is, in this case the music industry.


It's great that you're moving forward, better forward than backward that's common sense, but I have to say that you're not moving very fast since these issues have been known for years and Despacito can still end up being qualified. You're playing with fire. Ideally you'd be taking it down before a DMCA had to be filed.

Now, I'm no lawyer but I sincerely doubt that "low audio quality" would even be an argument worth considering if push comes to shove. Osu is a sitting duck and you know it.

I'm not saying that anything bad will happen to osu, I'm saying that it could, and if it does then it was 100% predictable and preventable.
Let's hope that nothing happens and that you guys can maneuver yourself into a position where you're mostly untouchable.


Anyway, I only made this thread because I thought that the communities response to the DMCA-strike was hilariously backwards.

pineappleman wrote:

Well, speaking of copyrights, say that using the unlicensed "track" for the beatmap is forbidden, so we can't use most of the beatmaps uploaded so far.
Then, who has the copyright of the "map"s? Mappers? Track creater? Nobody?

I know it's a little irrelevant, but I really should know
the map as in a particular configuration of circles, sliders and spinners, without music or anything?
Practically, there's no copyright for that. It's up for grabs, no legal action would ever be taken if you steal a map and call it your own.
Theoretically, it would go to the mapper, since he's the creator of the map.
N0thingSpecial

Deva wrote:

N0thingSpecial wrote:

On a corporate level I don’t think they will think that way, they hire their own branding team

why pay for something if you can get it for free?

Should you get it for free if I told you the owner doesn’t want to give it away for free?

Look my point is they are squeezing out the small portion of people that WILL start buying/streaming songs instead torrenting them. Which surprise someone will make the switch as streaming becomes more convenient and popular.

If you want to talk about WHY, I might as well tell you I might do it when I become dirt poor someday despite knowing I shouldn’t.
B1rd
Everything we do here pales in comparison to the economic damage that this game causes the music industry.
This is a laughably wrong statement. No one uses osu! as a means to pirate low-bitrate crappy audio. If someone were to pirate music, they would use one of the multitude of means available that are actually intended for pirating music. Rather if anything, osu! benefits the music industry by exposing people to a broad range of genres of artists they may have otherwise never heard of. Copyright is simply an unjust means of maintaining monopoly control over non-scare resources.
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