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[New Rule] No Meme Maps (?)

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Total Posts
34
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
So since nobody else is going to do it, I'll go ahead and make it for you.

A sort of place for this discussion to be had in a meaningful sort of place without devolving into toxicity:
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/740752/d ... generalAll

So sort of the point brought up here is that this song isn't appropriate for a rhythm game, since it's a meme song or something like that? (At least that's what I'm getting from the thread). It seems that a lot of the discussion is focused moreso on the fact that the map is based on a singular idea of copy-pasting that people find boring and repetitive and not indicative of a high quality map. NOTE that I'm not looking at any of the further discussion, since that devolves into all sorts of stuff, but I'm looking at the ORIGINAL post that brought up the need for a discussion.

I am personally of the idea that song choice shouldn't be something that is particularly restricted. While we are content creators first and foremost, that relies primarily on the fact that we are producing maps that are of a high quality to be played by the community. So maps that don't play well or aren't enjoyable to play for any population (I make this distinction because there are plenty of maps that aren't enjoyable for top level players, but appeal to other factions of the community) don't get ranked. So whatever we produce should have some sort of quality to it. The song choice, however, is completely free to our liking, and sometimes that means mapping songs that are a little bit silly. Because we are not boring people and enjoy making maps that have some special quirks to them. Sometimes these sorts of joke maps don't really work, but if they're created and intuitive for the community to play, then I see no reason why they should be restricted.

On top of this, it's difficult to sort of really determine what a line is on "songs that are acceptable for the game." I believe firmly that if something is going to be enforced, it needs to have explicit guidelines. If we're going to say "This song isn't okay" then why explicitly is it not okay? This sort of popped up when discussing NSFW content ( t/684003&start=0 ) that there needs to be some sort of things I can reference and be like "okay, does my song fit within the rules?" Do YTPMVs / NNDs count as "not appropriate for the game"? How about cover songs? (ie. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/368346 ).

As a sort of proposed compromise, if people are really against having "meme songs" in the ranked section, you could always make it a guideline that songs be pushed for the loved section if they aren't... serious enough?? (I'm really not sure of the proper verbage you'd use).

I'd love to hear some discussion about this. I'd also like to motivate people in the future to sort of make these threads on their own when issues like this sort of come up. The ranking criteria is the most important tool that we have to improving the future of osu!, as it allows us to sort of set precedents of how to improve the game for years to come. It's important to use situations and maps like this to realize "Is this map acceptable? Why or why not? Should we have some sort of change to prevent this in the future?"

tl;dr the rule I hypothetically would propose would look something like

Song Choice: Some songs may be more funny than actually appropriate for ranked play. In this case, songs that are meant to be seen as humorous may be recommended for the Loved section, instead of the ranked section
Please remember RC discussion rules and such, I'd really not like this thread to turn into berating as it did in the thread discussion, I'd like for it to be a place where we can actually discuss this.
Num
2 posts
Joined October 2016
Num
the majority of osu! players are male age 13-20... even if you wanted to destroy meme maps it's not like that will ever happen.

besides, how can you set criteria for whether or not a song is a meme? only allow songs with 37 or more "anti-meme points"--?
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Reading though the entire drama of posts, I side most with these two comments:



If we ever get an big influx of joke meme maps, then maybe it should stop and we should talk about it. One getting ranked once in a while is nothing to start crying about. I think we should allow these "lower quality" maps through once in a while since casual players like to joke around among their friends and such, and would like to get pp for doing a good job for a joke.

I also think the people involved with the modding community are pursuing quality to the extent that they have lost sight as to what that means to majority playerbase, towards the casual player who logs in once in a while to have fun. They set their sights to focus mostly on the experienced players who are looking for maps they can use to further their skills on, not to joke around.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

CDFA wrote:

text
no, no, no. Please, Loved section already was treated as a trash can when you was able to shoot kd stars and put anything in. Now it's handled in right direction and recommending in guidelines or rules to fill it with songs that are not suitable for ranked(your opinion) just because they are meme is something really wrong.

To the matter - I don't think we need such rule or guideline, as ranked section is mostly community driven we already have mechanisms to gain feedback if something feels appropriate or not. Additional to this is just possibility to stop something from being ranked when there is consolidated agreement from people responsible, that is already wip and discussed in other topic.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,946 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
regulating against song choice outside of reasons beyond content appropriateness re: the rules is totally out of place and well beyond the scope of the ranking criteria
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei
we have to define the rules in regards of what is appropriate and what is not. if the rule can not be defined, we should have a voting system to make a decision on controversial cases.

Ephemeral wrote:

regulating against song choice outside of reasons beyond content appropriateness re: the rules is totally out of place and well beyond the scope of the ranking criteria
I can rank a metronome song with a single sample with a square pattern repeating itself. It is completely rankable and allowed now, and nobody cant stop that no matter what.

Is it a song? - well, it has rhythm so technically yes ☑
Follows RC? ☑
Does it reflect the song? ☑
Players like it? subjective = ☑
Is it stupid by itself? subjective = ☑

perfectly rankable and suitable as official content.

we have to implement a voting system where BNs could vote whether a map is appropriate or not.

Ah yes, I do agree with CDFA. Meme maps are ruining this game for these who is seriously trying to make a good maps putting sufficient amount of effort, but these meme ones arent improving the quality of ranked section, nor encouraging people to put more effort in their maps.

say, if some garbage getting ranked with no effort in it, why should I bother making something outstanding and sophisticated?

put some shit here and there, nobody gonna care @ Hobbes2
LwL
363 posts
Joined November 2013
LwL
I really don't like the idea of the RC having anything related to the song itself. Yes mapping and trying to rank a fucking metronome is stupid, but why the hell would anyone do that in the first place? It'd also be really easy to stop it from ranking based on map quality if the map isn't just the same thing copypasted because everything else would be basically random.

There are many songs that are controversial and that many would probably describe as garbage (Traumatic or Pitch Fucker come to mind for me), doesn't mean that some people don't like them. Regarding the meme harumachi clover that started this, I tbh find it quite catchy and not a terrible song to listen to, even if it's a dumb meme at its core.

That being said, some sort of BN based voting system could work, but there'd also still be the issue of circlejerk which will always be present to some extent, and any voting system would further advantage those with connections to as many BNs as possible (in an ideal world it wouldn't matter, but humans usually don't just ignore their social connections for some higher morality, at least most don't).

Overall I don't really see the harm in mapping meme songs, as low effort as the maps usually are, many players do like playing them, especially in multi. It can be fun. It won't necessarily get additional value from getting ranked, but I wouldn't say it devalues the ranking section either. Sure it doesn't add much, but neither does the 8th regular version of harumachi clover, or any other generic tv size where the song has been mapped before.
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quila
358 posts
Joined February 2016
quila
[deleted as part of purging my old post history]
Last edited by quila , edited 2 times in total.
jeanbernard8865
600 posts
Joined December 2014
jeanbernard8865
Believing a vote is the fittest option is a logical fallacy as the number of people supporting an argument has little to do with its strength, if any.

Also, whether meme maps are not improving the quality of the ranked section is subjective. Mapping's strength stems from its diversity, and I believe it's nice to have a few silly maps that just make you laugh thinking " what the hell is this " as part of the game's official content because they represent the part of the mapping community that does not take it seriously. To me, as long as the map itself is suitable for rank, then there is no reason for the song's seriousness to be a limiting factor, nor is there one for mappers struggling to rank their own set to be offended as a map's quality is independent from its underlying song's in this case.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
Can we just have it where it's up to BNs decided whether or not something is fine? (and their votes weighted equally ofc)

Whether or not a song is inappropriate and nsfw is already made to the GMTs discretion; I wish it was similar with the quality of a song and the beatmap nominator division
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei

AyanokoRin wrote:

Also, whether meme maps are not improving the quality of the ranked section is subjective. Mapping's strength stems from its diversity, and I believe it's nice to have a few silly maps that just make you laugh thinking " what the hell is this " as part of the game's official content because they represent the part of the mapping community that does not take it seriously.
Let me enlight you about something. Meme maps are creating precedents for actually bad and low quality maps as an excuse for mappers. Its been proven 10000000000000000000 times in different map threads people were using "well, here its ranked in this %map_name% why cant i do the same?" and they get away with this constantly.

AyanokoRin wrote:

I believe it's nice to have a few silly maps that just make you laugh thinking " what the hell is this "
Its not few now, there are hundreds of them already in the game, which breaks the image of Ranking Section where good maps are (or supposed to be?).

I can feel that you dont really care about quality since for you its all "subjective" + "rankable" and you dont count ethical aspect at all. What kind of example it shows for people? What it entails for the future of mapping?

You just dont care. But we do.
Aeril
Beatmap Nominator
710 posts
Joined May 2014
Aeril
Can we all just realize that osu! is a game to play and not art to be admired? I personally think that yes it is fine for songs that are ‘memes’ to be ranked. If you really feel the need to, bring up a veto based on that to stop the map or a DQ request. There is no harm and I am of the opinion of AyanokoRin that it is fun to play for a few laughs. Bringing up any kind of objective rule for blocking song remixes would be impossible as it would block both legitimate and meme remixes. I believe the only way to do this would be by, as said before, vetos and DQ requests being handled professionally, and not by a type of rule. I believe that the reason we have a BNG and QAT is that because it is essentially impossible at this place in time to have a criteria or robot that can do all of these things.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

hi-mei wrote:

Let me enlight you about something. Meme maps are creating precedents for actually bad and low quality maps as an excuse for mappers. Its been proven 10000000000000000000 times in different map threads people were using "well, here its ranked in this %map_name% why cant i do the same?" and they get away with this constantly.
People involved in a ranking\qualification\disqualification process don't take this as argument, you've informed wrong.

hi-mei wrote:

Its not few now, there are hundreds of them already in the game, which breaks the image of Ranking Section where good maps are (or supposed to be?).

I can feel that you dont really care about quality since for you its all "subjective" + "rankable" and you dont count ethical aspect at all. What kind of example it shows for people? What it entails for the future of mapping?

You just dont care. But we do.
This is a mess. People play to get fun, right? Mapping meme song while content is appropriate is alright - we have rules for this. Trying to rank such songs while quality of mapping is deemed as appropriate is alright.

Talking about ethical aspect can only be applied to abusing the system in some way not about that you want to see only serious (what is this anyway) stuff in ranked section.
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,575 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi
Just look at the "Popular Beatmaps" and you know there's something wrong already.

Joke aside, meme maps is not the right term for a potential rule, but more like Avoid remixes who distort the original music in a way than it's sounds innapropriate for rank as a guideline, and let BN/QAT decide if a song is k to pass or not.

This sounds probably stupid and won't lead to anything but at least I tried.
I thought we had more respect for original songs to avoid going for weird remix like that.
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei

Sieg wrote:

People involved in a ranking\qualification\disqualification process don't take this as argument, you've informed wrong.
I believe you are wrong? How can you prove that thats not the case when literally yesterday people raised the same concerns about Nao's map? Hello?



And please do bother to add some example to prove me wrong next time.

This is a mess.
Trying to rank such songs while quality of mapping is deemed as appropriate is alright.
Talking about ethical aspect can only be applied to abusing the system in some way not about that you want to see only serious (what is this anyway) stuff in ranked section.
Man, your points look like an anecdote, you literally contradicting yourself in the same paragraph.

please make sure to read this https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/740752/d ... generalAll discussion
Last edited by hi-mei , edited 3 times in total.
Mun
469 posts
Joined July 2015
Mun

hi-mei wrote:

say, if some garbage getting ranked with no effort in it, why should I bother making something outstanding and sophisticated?


We should not have to supply a mapper's motivations on a silver platter. To anyone who seriously considers just making meme maps and low-effort jokes because other people get away with it, I say this: have some integrity and self-respect. That's what any relatively free community relies on.
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani

hi-mei wrote:

Ah yes, I do agree with CDFA. Meme maps are ruining this game for these who is seriously trying to make a good maps putting sufficient amount of effort, but these meme ones arent improving the quality of ranked section, nor encouraging people to put more effort in their maps.
Gonna stop you right there, I love meme maps and feel that they should be kept in the game as long as they're mapped well and are to the standards of the ranking criteria lmao. I made the thread because people were sort of devolving to shitting on each other in the beatmap thread instead of actually doing something productive.

Will have an actual reply when I get home, currently at class.
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei

CDFA wrote:

hi-mei wrote:

Ah yes, I do agree with CDFA. Meme maps are ruining this game for these who is seriously trying to make a good maps putting sufficient amount of effort, but these meme ones arent improving the quality of ranked section, nor encouraging people to put more effort in their maps.
Gonna stop you right there, I love meme maps and feel that they should be kept in the game as long as they're mapped well and are to the standards of the ranking criteria lmao. I made the thread because people were sort of devolving to shitting on each other in the beatmap thread instead of actually doing something productive.

Will have an actual reply when I get home, currently at class.
I mean, I do agree that well mapped stuff is absolutely OKAY, we are talking here about the extreme cases such as my example of 30 sec metronome map that spawms squares with 10 degree clockwise rotation.

Does it have a flow? - yeah, circluar flow, perfectly fine and playable
Structure? - yeah, squares and rotation, perfectly fine
hitsounds and shit - easy doable in 5 mins of time to make sure it follows RC.


And we have nothing to stop that kind of absurd. I do have people whos interested in pushing such thing in ranked to create a precedent and show to everyone how underdone the rules are in the common sense aspect... but lets stick to the discussion for now.
Aeril
Beatmap Nominator
710 posts
Joined May 2014
Aeril
Wait but we do have people to stop that kind of stuff, their name is the QAT and BNG.
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei

Aeril wrote:

Wait but we do have people to stop that kind of stuff, their name is the QAT and BNG.
They are no longer influential on something deemed as "subjective". We had a long discussion about that in dev discord already. Peppy restrictred QAT's ability of actually assuring quality after Asymmetry drama.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,946 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral

hi-mei wrote:

And we have nothing to stop that kind of absurd. I do have people whos interested in pushing such thing in ranked to create a precedent and show to everyone how underdone the rules are in the common sense aspect... but lets stick to the discussion for now.


dignity and respect as a creator is a fine motivator in that regard, we just unfortunately have a few people active at the moment that very much enjoy porting shitposting humor into beatmap creation and seeing how far they can take the system for a ride.

which realistically speaking, is all the way, because the current system has been painstakingly refined over 9 years of anguish to afford people the most amount of freedom possible to pursue their creative work in the hopes that people will use it to create new and interesting things, instead of mapping 30 second kick snare kick snare segments

shitpost maps will always exist and their presence does not somehow reduce the quality of the other sets that 90% of all mappers put a lot of effort and soul into.

the best way to address this issue is to stop looking at ranked as a signifier for quality and instead as a basic assertion that the map is at the very least, playable and bereft of major mechanical flaws.

what you use thereafter to determine "map quality" is entirely up to you - it really isn't something that belongs in the scope of a singular team to uphold, honestly. it used to work that way in the past and it really wasn't great.

there's a few particularly noisy modders/mappers/BN that believe themselves to be capable of arbitrating such a thing themselves, but you have to ask yourself, do you really want a closed group of people collectively determining what is and isn't worthy of scoreboards based on their own personal renditions on what makes a good beatmap? i can pretty much answer that for you: it's a solid no.
Last edited by Ephemeral , edited 1 time in total.
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei

Ephemeral wrote:

there's a few particularly noisy modders/mappers/BN that believe themselves to be capable of arbitrating such a thing themselves, but you have to ask yourself, do you really want a closed group of people collectively determining what is and isn't worthy of scoreboards based on their own personal renditions on what makes a good beatmap? i can pretty much answer that for you: it's a solid no.
Still, even if though I agree with things you say, we do need to have a some kind of leader (it used to be Loctav in the past) to determine what is appropriate and suitable and what is not. We are not talking about quality as a measure, we are talking about extremes of the possible cases.

I and (believe me or not) many other long terms mappers are getting pissed of seeing that the quality we were been told for years is an illusion at the end. But at its philosophical aspect it is right that the quality of something claimed as an art is non existent. We get that and thats not the case here.

We do want an ability to affect some critical cases (see rating/disqus on randevouz or best friends). This is the community driven game, how come we cant have influence on something we are really acknowledged of?

So to summarize stuff and make it obvious for everyone: currently, the competent ones (qat/bns) are able to say YES to beatmap, but they are unable to say NO for its conceptual/musical aspects.

So essentially if there are only 2 BN who sees something as OK, the rest of the opinions of the BNG+QAT (69 (71-2) persons) gets nullified. So how is that ok?
Izzywing
osu! Alumni
2,251 posts
Joined March 2016
Izzywing
I think everyone agrees that "No Meme Maps" isn't really the question here. The real question I think falls for two vague groups of songs -

1) Songs that are perceived as a way to "abuse" the system to an extreme (such as mapping a literal metronome)

2) Songs that are perceived as a extremely low quality edit of an existing song (such as ha ha ru ru)

After some thought I believe that the QAT should hold the power to be able to nuke a mapset if the issue is actually so extreme. Considering the QAT are all currently trusted with pretty much everything related to moderating maps, I don't think it's crazy for them to have that power. Here's some additional thoughts.

- I don't think meme songs are a problem, and I don't think they ever will be. People are talking about how we have more and more and more meme maps in qualified but the reality is they are a very small amount of all of the ranked maps.

- This is a community game, Maps are made by the community. A large part of this is that the community decides what they want to map. Telling the community they can't map an set of music (memes) because they are perceived to be an issue by some people is quite silly to me. Please note that I understand that very NSFW songs are banned, but this is due to the actual game being accessible to people of different ages and not the community having any dislike towards such music.

- osu is not a professional game. I mean, it has professional elements, but at the end of the day this game feels a lot more laxed in a lot of its aspects. How many other rhythm games would ever have something like we are number one, or VAPE NATION remix, or Shooting Stars? (i picked outdated memes on purpose) There was a great comment maridiuS made that's elsewhere in this thread that I think sums up what I'm trying to say here well. I know as a new player I would always have a chuckle when I played a mapset of some kind of stupid meme.

- Historically, meme maps are actually pretty successful. They often end up with a lot of plays and favorites. So people here are saying that the community is "tired" of meme maps but is that really the case?

- If the QAT is ever given such a power as I described earlier, I would sincerely hope that it is only used at their judgement on the absolute extreme cases. Nuking a map is not a light issue, correct me if I'm wrong.
Num
2 posts
Joined October 2016
Num
hey guys, I'm not really known in whole mapping/modding community, am just a no-name who likes watching beatmap threads and following the ranking process -- I have been observing this whole discussion for awhile now and there are a couple things I think are worth pointing out-

A lot of the reason why mappers like hi-mei and kisses are pushing back so hard against ranked meme mapping is that they feel (with good reason) that this is a very slippery slope and by allowing worse and worse songs like ha ha ru ru getting ranked, it lowers the bar for everyone else and eventually the entire game goes spiraling into degeneracy, with their own hard work spent creating quality maps, getting cluttered out by a flood of nonsense memes and metronome maps filling the ranked section.

But, historically this is not the case... if you go back for a moment and play over some meme maps from 7 or 8 years ago, i.e. internet pack vol. 1-2 (which were deemed worthy of having their own achievement on player profile), you will find yourself suffering through horrible 2010 meme songs, combined with horrible 2010 meme mapsets. it's really painful to play for us today, but that was the standard of achievement-worthy ranked mapping back in those days. Line that up side by side with the memes of today, choco cookie, number one, nico nico douga, octagon collaboration, etc... you will find the standard of meme mapping has gone up significantly over the past several years, along with the quality collectively of all ranked mapping, and the standards continue to rise.

The beatmap nominators and quality assurance team do take their job seriously, and they are doing very well at providing quality content for the entire osu! community... by simply allowing meme songs to be included in ranked mapsets, you aren't likely to allow the mapping and modding ecosystem to collapse. rather, I would say, go ahead and allow mappers to use meme songs in their mapsets, and continue to hold their work to the same 2018 mapping standards that you hold for everyone else.

at the end of the day, it isn't so much about making everyone map a single genre of music. it's about letting the community choose their music, and making sure they map it well.
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani

Numailia wrote:

But, historically this is not the case... if you go back for a moment and play over some meme maps from 7 or 8 years ago, i.e. internet pack vol. 1-2 (which were deemed worthy of having their own achievement on player profile), you will find yourself suffering through horrible 2010 meme songs, combined with horrible 2010 meme mapsets. it's really painful to play for us today, but that was the standard of achievement-worthy ranked mapping back in those days. Line that up side by side with the memes of today, choco cookie, number one, nico nico douga, octagon collaboration, etc... you will find the standard of meme mapping has gone up significantly over the past several years, along with the quality collectively of all ranked mapping, and the standards continue to rise.
hi I'm from that time.

Video game pack isn't a meme map lmao. Meme maps from back then would be something like https://osu.ppy.sh/b/73545 (A fantastic adventure).

So let's try this for a change.

PROPOSED RULE: While osu! is supportive in allowing all kinds of music, QAT have the ability to nuke a map for inappropriate song choice if it is considered inappropriate for ranked play. This is done by a vote from the full QAT team, with a 75% majority needed to nuke a map.
It's really shittily worded and it's SUPER vague but I'd like to see if this is the direction people prefer this goes.
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,959 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
the way this is worded is making it seem like the qat can nuke any map if they dont like the song if they all just dont like the song

makes me think that this is really not a thing the RC should handle, would make song compilations weird as heck, too as well as actual meme maps become more subtle to fit into the realm of "acceptable but slightly on the edge"

Idk if that is any better than what we have now, apart from people now nuking R3 Music box songs or whatever?
if a song is stupid and the map is stupid in a good way then i'd rank it as a good map, i don't want this game to end up being a no fun allowed zone

what'd be good is like actual qat members giving their opinion here? hey guys!
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei
I will repeat it again, we do have 3 options now:

1. leave as it is and pray on BN's sanity
2. implement a voting system that will be used in extreme cases of massive community outrage (the best option in my opinion)
3. pick a leader (back to Loctav times) that will be respected among the community to determine extremely controversial stuff

For now on, as far as I know, there is no strong voice in QAT, nobody wants to voice/force anyting that can backfire from Reddit/Twitter. Lets be honest with ourselves. We came to the point where nobody from QAT (but Shiro) wanted to post that DQ post in PP compilation, because everyone is scared to get flamed on Reddit/Discord/Twitter.

We do need to sort this thing out I think, since now they are assuring nothing, soon there will be nothing to assure.
Xinnoh
Elite Mapper
1,962 posts
Joined April 2014
Xinnoh


there is no benefit to the proposal

it creates even more drama when people try to draw the line

it removes the largest draw of this game, you can play literally any song you want that is not 18+

this has been discussed and rejected before. move on.
hi-mei
784 posts
Joined June 2014
hi-mei
it creates even more drama when people try to draw the line
is there any more than we have now? :thinking:

responding on topic: I believe we ended up on the question whether the certain decision should be made in critical situations or not. Its not about just meme maps anymore I assume.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
And while we're at, disallow to have more than one ranked map to a song, only map full versions and no more openings/endings (because they are technically cut-offs from songs and therefore no real songs) and call every song that is considered as meme due the community such as Brain Power or Rainbow Tylenol as meme, and be critical therefore.

Come on, guys. That wasn't a problem for over ten years and it won't start to become one.
Grrum
886 posts
Joined November 2011
Grrum
I'm not in support of this proposal. Due to how subjective song quality can be, I believe we should let players choose for themselves what constitutes song quality rather than having it being chosen for them by QATs. If a player loves a certain style of song, staff should be supportive of that player's interests. If a player does not like a song, it is easy for them to ignore it and find songs they do like.

What could be a problem is how players see new maps. If players only see meme songs, then they might not be able to easily find the songs they do like, and so they might feel like osu! isn't for them. This is a completely separate issue from whether a map deserves to be ranked. If a player is overwhelmed by one genre of songs when there are other maps they'd rather see, the failure lies in how songs are being presented to players and not in the fact that the song is ranked. If this problem were to seriously ever arise, I think the better way to address it is by offering better filters on the main beatmap page rather than censoring an apparently popular genre.

This is somewhat unrelated, but another form of the same problem exists when a certain genre of music does not have enough maps to get a player's attention. For example, osu! is dominated by anime/j-pop music which turns off potential mainstream audiences who like Maroon 5 or Nikki Minaj or whatever the kids are into today. Can osu! be more supportive of this? Are mappers at fault for not producing more of that? That's a discussion for different topic, but the point of this is that mappers and players decide what music they like and what they want to map and play. We should let mappers and players decide how popular these meme songs will be.

To paraphrase Mark Rosewater in his speech at GDC (lesson 11), "Stop worrying about evoking a negative response, and start worrying about evoking a strong response." The song that started this discussion is worthy enough to risk some player's negative experience for other player's positive experience.
Last edited by Grrum , edited 2 times in total.
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
So can we go ahead and just call this denied then lol.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat

CDFA wrote:

So can we go ahead and just call this denied then lol.
Nitrous
1,206 posts
Joined October 2015
Nitrous
Just my two cents, will there be any BN willing to rank one? In my case, it took me 6 months attempting so. This rule is beyond RC and should be handled by the nominator's preference.
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