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Weird thing LMAO

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Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
There's nothing we can do if you trust your cheater friends over what peppy says, if you dont want to believe us be that way, but that wont change the reality.

Sakura Hana wrote:

How many times has it been, you guys should learn to read:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=65850

Any bans appeals should be directed to osu@ppy.sh
viewtopic.php?p=1165115#p1165115

This isnt power abuse, im just telling you guys the correct way of handling things, rather than just post and post and post threads that will end up with the same fate regardless of who's the moderator that does it.

Edit: on and in the first link it says screenshots/videos wont prove anything.

Edit 2: I'm only locking this thread since it's regarding Lunah's ban, you're free to discuss other things if u want as long as it doesn't turn into drama or flamewars

peppy wrote:

I went out of my way to write an announcement with regards to logic/rules behind cheating/foul play bans as I knew there would be some repercussion. Please go re-read this announcement, as it would seem from the nature of this thread that many of you haven't yet read it.

mirquez wrote:

Sakura Hana is here, watchout! She/he's coming to lock this thread :(
yes i am and for obvious reasons
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
I get that English isn't your first language, but you do kind of need to read that one thing peppy posted and then subsequently linked to regarding the "post proof" argument

as long as you say "post proof" you're demonstrating that you don't actually know what you're talking about
ampzz
ampzz
osu! is actually fairly lenient towards people who have cheated or their friends who may have known that they cheat.

In my old FPS community anybody who was found to have cheated or harboured (known that [user] cheated but still continued playing with them) cheaters within their team would be banned (permanently) without a very slim chance at redemption.

The reason I know this is because I was a member of the administration and anti-cheat teams
We would also publicly list the newly banned cheaters every month or two.

I have never once found banning people who openly and publicly discuss about their own ban or someone they know to be an abuse of administrative powers, it's fairly logical really. You are not supposed to create threads in regards to the aforementioned bans so isn't it as simple as people not following the rules?

If people are banned, they have a way to discuss this out (in a civilised matter) with the correct individuals, it's not that hard...



Wall of text aside and tl;dr version:

Use some common sense and don't openly discuss about bans from osu! in the forums, use the right tools which are available to you.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
*has nothing constructive to add*

I could have sworn this thread was locked the last time I saw it.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
awp probably unlocked it due to it being unjustified and what seemed to be an "iron-fist" approach with control.
foulcoon
osu! Alumni
1,384 posts
Joined July 2008
foulcoon
directed towards SakuraIIDX

mm201 wrote:

The funny part is how you're hacking too~

Edit:

SakuraIIDX wrote:

and I'll enjoy when everybody will get off this fucking game or someone copy your idea, make it better and you will get fucked.
This is interesting. I was considering writing my own Ouendan clone, until I discovered this one and how mature a project it already was. It's not very difficult to find, so I'd expect any half-decent coder (disgruntled cheaters don't count) would do the same.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
I didn't unlock the thread unless there's a bug in the Quick-Reply functionality. Let's find out!

EDIT: Yes, yes there is a bug in the Quick Reply function.

OTHER EDIT: Also I don't personally think the thread should be locked but all we're likely to get out of unlocking it is another geyser of ignorant babble
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,945 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
lets give this another shot

i know you guys are angry at the apparent lack of proof over these bans, but think about it - if we were using it as an excuse to ban people who said things against us or that we don't agree with, why would we leave these threads in plain view, not wastelanded and open for all to read? the point is: we wouldn't. if we were power hungry tyrants, nobody would ever know about it simply because the people who would otherwise be around to assert the fact wouldn't be present in the community at all.

we're not trying to cover anything up. lunah is as much a cheater as the rest of them - all of his other actions precipitate to nothing in the face of the game flat out detecting him using cheats and submitting scores with them. there's no element of "i think lunah cheated" involved here - it is simply the truth.

i'm sorry that you feel ignored and betrayed. if any of you would ever like to discuss the situation in depth, hit me up ingame or through PM and i'd be more than happy to sit down with you and give you a brief overview of the situation.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

Ephemeral wrote:

i know you guys are angry at the apparent lack of proof over these bans, but think about it - if we were using it as an excuse to ban people who said things against us or that we don't agree with, why would we leave these threads in plain view, not wastelanded and open for all to read? the point is: we wouldn't. if we were power hungry tyrants, nobody would ever know about it simply because the people who would otherwise be around to assert the fact wouldn't be present in the community at all.
1. This.

2. I cannot think of any online game, professional or otherwise, that regularly posts proof of cheating when it bans somebody or provides them when asked. It's just not done for two reasons:

-a. Knowing how hacks are detected makes it much easier to circumvent the detection.
-b. Let's be honest; most of the lot would just accuse any pics/videos provided of being edited so there's no real point.

3. If they were power hungry tyrants I would've been banned years ago. I'd be the most obvious liar in the world if I said I never lost control of my temper. ;P
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
honestly io sono un gato
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
Lunah is annoying so I'd ban him 100 times if I were peppy.
Shellghost
543 posts
Joined March 2009
Shellghost
Considering the fact that Italy isn't completely IP blocked, I wouldn't really call peppy a tyrant.
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby

Shellghost wrote:

Considering the fact that Italy isn't completely IP blocked, I wouldn't really call peppy a tyrant.
At this stage, I'd prefer to call peppy a tyrant for not IP blocking Italy.
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan
Is it really necessary to defend Lunah insulting peppy? You all act like childish people, lol
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
I thought people stopped caring about Lunah's ban a long time ago, why is it suddenly all "WTF MAN. CONSPIRACY! ABUSE! COMMUNISM! AAAYYYOOO"
laserpollo
131 posts
Joined June 2011
laserpollo

OzzyOzrock wrote:

honestly io sono un gato
You killed me.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
DerekMcD
1,484 posts
Joined February 2009
DerekMcD

CDFA wrote:

I thought people stopped caring about Lunah's ban a long time ago, why is it suddenly all "WTF MAN. CONSPIRACY! ABUSE! COMMUNISM! AAAYYYOOO"
BTW, It first happened on the beginning of November when he posts help about problems with adding ranked scores on Help and Support section.

But they have to get over it and learn to understand the cheat Q&A list peepy made. I really doubt this will help also when people made a Livestreaming show to prove they're innocent because it might be the same as posting videos and photo to prove though.

We know y'all Italians miss Lunah on osu! But y'all just have to let it go, there's nothing the admins can do according to wait peppy wrote last month..

Hacking incident happens, y'all know.
laport
1,239 posts
Joined June 2010
laport
this piece of thread with nonsense..

Weird thing, yes.
LMAO, nope.
laserpollo
131 posts
Joined June 2011
laserpollo

Maddy wrote:

meh ok fuck this
+1
Leader
osu! Alumni
1,849 posts
Joined January 2011
Leader

OzzyOzrock wrote:

honestly io sono un gato
i lol'd so hard
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun
how many times has Lunah been 'permanently banned', now?
Mirage
627 posts
Joined May 2011
Mirage

Cuddlebun wrote:

how many times has Lunah been 'permanently banned', now?
more than enough
Mismagius
9,267 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

Maddy wrote:

Cuddlebun wrote:

how many times has Lunah been 'permanently banned', now?
more than enough
yeah he should stop soon
D33d
1,697 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d
Lunah, fuck off and take your shitty friends/tagalongs with you. Thanks.
mathexpert
1,699 posts
Joined March 2011
mathexpert
before all y'all hate on him, how can you be 100% sure that he did cheat? I doubt the detection system is 100% accurate (?)
Sander-Don
1,282 posts
Joined March 2010
Sander-Don

mathexpert9981 wrote:

before all y'all hate on him, how can you be 100% sure that he did cheat? I doubt the detection system is 100% accurate (?)
DerekMcD
1,484 posts
Joined February 2009
DerekMcD
Okay... Now we're gonna give Lunah some good laughs if he keeps it up. :lol: :lol: :-D
Shellghost
543 posts
Joined March 2009
Shellghost
You know, peppy is providing a service to us for FREE.

We are not paying for the services with supporter, as it clearly states on the supporter page:
"Please note that you are not paying for extra features. You are donating and any extras that come as a result are not considered to have a monetary value"
If peppy one day wakes up and decides that he doesn't want to pay lots of money to keep the servers up just so a group of people can bitch at him and complain constantly, then no one can stop him and no one should stop him for he has done far more for us than any of you seem to appreciate.

As he has said several times himself. If you cannot trust his judgement then perhaps you should reconsider having a program which he created installed on your computer.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,945 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral

mathexpert9981 wrote:

before all y'all hate on him, how can you be 100% sure that he did cheat? I doubt the detection system is 100% accurate (?)
under normal circumstances, nothing really interferes with osu!'s core resources in such a fashion that cheating does. it is immediately obvious when a user is cheating, and there is no guesswork involved.

you simply can't trigger a false positive for the system that is currently in place. you have to be deliberately trying to cheat in order to set it off.
palion
172 posts
Joined October 2011
palion

Ephemeral wrote:

mathexpert9981 wrote:

before all y'all hate on him, how can you be 100% sure that he did cheat? I doubt the detection system is 100% accurate (?)
under normal circumstances, nothing really interferes with osu!'s core resources in such a fashion that cheating does. it is immediately obvious when a user is cheating, and there is no guesswork involved.

you simply can't trigger a false positive for the system that is currently in place. you have to be deliberately trying to cheat in order to set it off.
hello win32 api

inject hooks into all processes to detect readprocessmemory?????
MarKKaM
184 posts
Joined April 2011
MarKKaM
Lunah has uploaded the video to his youtube account (lesslunatic), where everybody can see that he's not cheating... In my mind, it's really plausible proof... Lunah-sama always tried so hard for the osu community, so you, peppy, should be thankful...
Even if Lunah really cheated (but i'm pretty sure it's not so), you should forgive him and give him a second chance. That's all i want to say.
Last edited by MarKKaM , edited 1 time in total.
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol
I thought he got banned for FL cheats? Why is he playing double time ~.~
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

MarKKaM wrote:

Lunah has uploaded the video to his youtube account (lesslunatic), where everybody can see that he's not cheating... In my mind, it's really plausible proof...
I can use cheats

I can record a video of me playing osu!

I can choose to do either of these activities simultaneously or separately

???????????????????????????
MarKKaM
184 posts
Joined April 2011
MarKKaM

awp wrote:

MarKKaM wrote:

Lunah has uploaded the video to his youtube account (lesslunatic), where everybody can see that he's not cheating... In my mind, it's really plausible proof...
I can use cheats

I can record a video of me playing osu!

I can choose to do either of these activities simultaneously or separately

???????????????????????????
Lunah is already amazing player, he's one of the most high-skilled players in osu community. So, what is the point for him to cheat? I thought, that cheats are only necessary if you're a totally noob.
Awp, do you have any proofs that Lunah is cheating, or it's just because Peppy said so?
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
You thought wrong then. Anyone has the capacity to cheat, regardless of skill level.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

MarKKaM wrote:

So, what is the point for him to cheat? I thought, that cheats are only necessary if you're a totally noob.
Awp, do you have any proofs that Lunah is cheating, or it's just because Peppy said so?
There is no point for him to cheat. There's no point for anyone to cheat. There's nothing to actually unlock in osu!; you get all of its content regardless of "how far into the game" you are, or "how good you are". Apart from treating it as an academic exercise in software development, I don't see why anyone would bother trying it - using tools that someone else made would be completely pointless in my eyes.

I have about as much proof of Lunah cheating as I have of Lunah not cheating - none. That's not my department. It has nothing to do with me.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Well let's bring something from the ace attorney series then, even if you can prove that Lunah isnt cheating ->right now<- on a video, you cant prove that he didnt cheat way back then when he made the scores.
Cyclohexane
osu! Alumni
4,568 posts
Joined May 2009
Cyclohexane
Hey, just bringing something old that's kinda relevant here



and he didn't get banned after posting that, either. So... Yeah, about peppy being thankful to Lunah, not really.
Zelmarked
407 posts
Joined September 2011
Zelmarked
The less you care about a game, the people running it, and the community backing it, the more likely you are to cheat.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,945 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
it is a disappointing end to what seemed to be the beginnings of a prime contributor within the community. ask yourselves - why would peppy supposedly lie about lunah cheating to ban him? why does peppy need the community's approval to do anything? what people seem to forget is that this game is his project and creation - peppy does not need to delegate anything to anyone, and in the case of cheaters he does not delegate anything at all. peppy handles the anti-cheating systems and my own personal experience with similar systems infers me to support his judgement because quite simply, those things do not really make mistakes. they just don't. you have to be deliberately trying to tamper with the game client to set them off.

so really, the entire staff are detached from this matter. hell, even peppy is. the plain fact of the matter is that at some point in the time before he was banned, lunah was undeniably and inextricably proven to have submit falsified scores through the use of a client cheat. there is no doubt about this. we did not sit down at a round table and pore over his replays looking for anything suss - like i have said earlier in the thread, the client detected him as a cheater and that is quite simply, that.

opinions about lunah have nothing to do with the matter at all. absolutely nothing. if anything, most of the staff were disappointed at the revelation since he seemed to be shaping up his act and contributing properly for a change.

so let's just step back and forget about this mess. drop the persecution complexes and open your eyes for a change. having an opinion contrary to ours or anyone on the team does not instantly qualify you for a ban, it never has and it never will. if you get banned at all for anything ever, it is because you are disrupting the game or people playing the game somehow. why else would we ban people in the first place?
Max
89 posts
Joined June 2011
Max

Ephemeral wrote:

it is a disappointing end to what seemed to be the beginnings of a prime contributor within the community. ask yourselves - why would peppy supposedly lie about lunah cheating to ban him? why does peppy need the community's approval to do anything? what people seem to forget is that this game is his project and creation - peppy does not need to delegate anything to anyone, and in the case of cheaters he does not delegate anything at all. peppy handles the anti-cheating systems and my own personal experience with similar systems infers me to support his judgement because quite simply, those things do not really make mistakes. they just don't. you have to be deliberately trying to tamper with the game client to set them off.

so really, the entire staff are detached from this matter. hell, even peppy is. the plain fact of the matter is that at some point in the time before he was banned, lunah was undeniably and inextricably proven to have submit falsified scores through the use of a client cheat. there is no doubt about this. we did not sit down at a round table and pore over his replays looking for anything suss - like i have said earlier in the thread, the client detected him as a cheater and that is quite simply, that.

opinions about lunah have nothing to do with the matter at all. absolutely nothing. if anything, most of the staff were disappointed at the revelation since he seemed to be shaping up his act and contributing properly for a change.

so let's just step back and forget about this mess. drop the persecution complexes and open your eyes for a change. having an opinion contrary to ours or anyone on the team does not instantly qualify you for a ban, it never has and it never will. if you get banned at all for anything ever, it is because you are disrupting the game or people playing the game somehow. why else would we ban people in the first place?
I agree 100%
DerekMcD
1,484 posts
Joined February 2009
DerekMcD
Here's how it happens for the first time.

In a day before Halloween, Lunah post a issue on the Help and Support section and it's about that he can't post ranked scored while he's online on osu! Later, peppy came in and told him that he supposed to be banned completely for cheating using DT and Lunah tried to tell him anything that he never cheated on osu in his life and showed him the DT rankings to prove he actually not cheated but it just failed because peppy got his own proof. In the beginning of this November, peppy started banning Lunah after he give his the three records on each beatmap he accused on cheating. but right now, there are Italains wanting to know the true reason why he banned him and Lunah wants to know too.

But on his YouTube video, it looks like proof. Because I saw him got some 100s and missed some combos at DT. But hopefully, his second video showing FL will come soon.

Like I said on my post from last time, hacking incident happens.
Last edited by DerekMcD , edited 1 time in total.
Sinistro
osu! Alumni
1,412 posts
Joined January 2008
Sinistro
I'll give y'all the case...
You haven't read anything in this thread, have you?
DerekMcD
1,484 posts
Joined February 2009
DerekMcD

Sinistro wrote:

I'll give y'all the case...
You haven't read anything in this thread, have you?
Well I though it was the continuation from a month ago. But I just said that though and explained the whole thing when it happened first.

You know it's weird how they get banned without any proof.
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol
Well derp if peppy showed the proof, people would know how to cheat.
hoihoisoi
134 posts
Joined May 2011
hoihoisoi

Sakura Hana wrote:

Well let's bring something from the ace attorney series then, even if you can prove that Lunah isnt cheating ->right now<- on a video, you cant prove that he didnt cheat way back then when he made the scores.
I always love that statement from AA, brings about the hardest things to prove.

In any case, I don't know what kind of detection program there is or if there is even a program implemented in the game client, but frankly I believe that Osu does quite a fair bit of banning compared to other online games (I play only a handful of them so probably I just feel it that way due to the lack of experience). Which brings me to believe the fact that, they must have some kind of basis/logic/modus oprandi before banning a player. I've seen hackers get banned before and to this date I've seen the data (As in the accuracy/level/scores/ranks) of the hackers just before they are reported. And it seems to me, they do have legit reasons to be banned. But I could be wrong, I frankly do not know, this is just an opinion of mine.

In this case however, I'm not so sure since I've never really took notice at the victim/defendant at hand. But what Ephemeral said made quite a lot of sense there, and the logic is hard to break at that. So with that, probably it's best that the topic gets cooled down or something. You know, one way or another flames usually start pouring in sooner or later. Personal opinion here. Hope I offended no one.
dNextGen
4,689 posts
Joined May 2010
dNextGen

ragelewa wrote:

Lunah is annoying so I'd ban him 100 times if I were peppy.
true dat
-kevincela-
Elite Mapper
2,795 posts
Joined February 2010
-kevincela-
I really don't knwo why there is so much people complaining about Lunah,even when he is banned. He could be a troll,but he isn't that annoying really. I don't really know if he cheated,but i don't find that right the fact that many people are hating Lunah for without any reason.
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol
He hated on dutch owc. NOBODY HATES ON THE DUTCH OWC TEAM RAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR AWRAWRAWRARA
DerekMcD
1,484 posts
Joined February 2009
DerekMcD

GladiOol wrote:

He hated on dutch owc. NOBODY HATES ON THE DUTCH OWC TEAM RAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR AWRAWRAWRARA
We all sucked at Dutch. :lol: :lol:
silmarilen
5,581 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
thats why they got to the finals
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