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Is consistency really an independent skill?

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Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter
I hear a lot of people saying that some players have high consistency and other players have low consistency. Bubbleman is said to have high consistency and is therefore good at tournaments. And in Happysticks interview with Toy, Happystick says he struggles with consistency and wonders how Toy can have such good consistency. I don't get it at all. I'm not claiming to know that consistency isn't a skill, I'm just personally confused, and asking for others to clarify.

Here are some skills I understand: aim, acc, speed, streaming, stamina, tapping speed and reading (not claiming these are the only skills). These skills are somewhat independent of each other, which is to say that you can focus on practicing one and not become much better at the others. For example, you can focus on practicing aim on 180 bpm square jump maps and you won't get (much) better at reading. And you can practice reading by playing AR 8 technical beatmaps that have no difficult jumps, and you will get better at reading with only a minor increase in aiming skill.

But for consistency, I don't see how it's independent of other skills. Can you focus on practicing consistency?

Consistency is something like this: if you're good at consistency, you can FC marathon maps. But as I understand it, your ability to play marathon maps just comes down to your other skills. If you have good aim, there's a (let's say) 99 % probability that you will hit jumps that are so and so wide. If the marathon map contains 50 jumps of that width, there's a 0.99^50 = 60 % chance that you will FC the map. By increasing your aim skill, you can increase the probability that you will FC the map, and thus you can more consistently FC maps of that difficulty level. And similarly with the other skills I've mentioned.

Why do some people say that some players have high/low consistency? Why not just say they have good aim/reading/speed/etc.?
Last edited by Mio Winter , edited 2 times in total.
Akanagi
492 posts
Joined February 2017
Akanagi
Consistency isn't a skill, it's just what happens when all your skills reach a certain point that will enable you to constantly play well on certain maps of a difficulty.
It's simply the sum of several things and not a single thing you can improve.


I can get around 1k-2k combo on some marathons, however I get way lower combo on the 5* Unforgiving Marathon, because it consists of harder "everything".
Nor does me getting or FCing Marathons mean that I can easily FC any 30 second map.



So to speak, everyone is consistent. 50k players can consistently FC a variety of 3* maps, 10k players can FC your average 4*s and so on.
Which only goes to prove that consistency is just the result of all of your skills combined that enable you to do it. It isn't a unique skill, nor can you improve it by playing marathons.




The thing that makes some people better or worse at marathons / longer songs is the ability to stay concentrated and not be anxious about breaking their big combo / choking.
Well, and stamina would be a big factor, too.
Last edited by Akanagi , edited 1 time in total.
Fxjlk
1,197 posts
Joined July 2014
Fxjlk
Consistency is trained by playing maps that are not too hard for your skill level and focusing on keeping combo for as long as possible. For short maps you try to keep up good acc and FC's as you play. By playing easier content you don't need bursts in focus and you can play for longer.

There are two reasons you can miss while training consistency, fatigue or focus.

Your consistency does depend on your skill as a whole since if you can play 6* maps then 3* maps should not really cause fatigue at all. However consistency is considered with the players peak skill level in mind. E.g if you cant easily FC maps below your peak skill level then you are considered inconsistent.
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

Consistency is trained by playing maps that are not too hard for your skill level and focusing on keeping combo for as long as possible. For short maps you try to keep up good acc and FC's as you play. By playing easier content you don't need bursts in focus and you can play for longer.

There are two reasons you can miss while training consistency, fatigue or focus.

Your consistency does depend on your skill as a whole since if you can play 6* maps then 3* maps should not really cause fatigue at all. However consistency is considered with the players peak skill level in mind. E.g if you cant easily FC maps below your peak skill level then you are considered inconsistent.
Is WubWoofWolf able to FC The Unforgiving (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/29157) because he's able to keep his focus throughout the play?

If Rafis and Wolf played The Unforgiven, is Wolf more likely to FC it because he's better at keeping his focus than Rafis? If so, then I can see how consistency (ability to keep one's focus) is a skill of its own. But I haven't really experienced "ability to keep my focus" as a significant factor in how well I myself perform, so I'm not convinced it matters much. (I could be wrong.)
Fxjlk
1,197 posts
Joined July 2014
Fxjlk
Yes WWW is known as really consistent and so is many older players because the ranking system back then rewarded consistency.

Consistency matters now but not as much as it did before. You can get some more pp if the map is basically the same in terms of peak difficulty but is longer. This effect has diminishing returns though so being crazy consistent like WWW is not worth the effort to get the pp it rewards
ManuelOsuPlayer
1,565 posts
Joined July 2014
ManuelOsuPlayer
Consistency it's a skill.
JeromeTT
94 posts
Joined September 2016
JeromeTT
Consistency is a skill.
zeplic
85 posts
Joined September 2012
zeplic
While i won't say pulling off an FC just one time and being unable to repeat it is pure luck, I will say that being able to consistently do it has far more skill involved.

Even memorizing a map correctly enough to consistently do something crazy like -gn is still SKILL, because im sure anybody who's played long enough would say from experience that memorizing a map incorrectly only damages their ability to play a map at all going forward
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

zeplic wrote:

While i won't say pulling off an FC just one time and being unable to repeat it is pure luck, I will say that being able to consistently do it has far more skill involved.

Even memorizing a map correctly enough to consistently do something crazy like -gn is still SKILL, because im sure anybody who's played long enough would say from experience that memorizing a map incorrectly only damages their ability to play a map at all going forward
I'm not asking whether consistency (being able to FC simple maps almost all the time) requires skill. It surely does, but the question is whether there is a skill which can be called "consistency" independent of other skills. If two people have the same aim, speed, acc, streaming skill, reading skill, etc. can they still be different in how consistent they are? And if so, is there any way to specifically increase this ability (instead of just increasing aim, speed, etc.)?
zeplic
85 posts
Joined September 2012
zeplic

Mio Winter wrote:

zeplic wrote:

While i won't say pulling off an FC just one time and being unable to repeat it is pure luck, I will say that being able to consistently do it has far more skill involved.

Even memorizing a map correctly enough to consistently do something crazy like -gn is still SKILL, because im sure anybody who's played long enough would say from experience that memorizing a map incorrectly only damages their ability to play a map at all going forward
I'm not asking whether consistency (being able to FC simple maps almost all the time) requires skill. It surely does, but the question is whether there is a skill which can be called "consistency" independent of other skills. If two people have the same aim, speed, acc, streaming skill, reading skill, etc. can they still be different in how consistent they are? And if so, is there any way to specifically increase this ability (instead of just increasing aim, speed, etc.)?

As a music school drop out, I was a performance major with performance anxiety (lol) - looking to switch to composition (rejected) ,

But speaking from a different context, i often had more speed, more ability, more stamina than another person. But ultimately, I was never as consistent . It's absolutely a skill if you look at it from that perspective.


Assuming each variable is a SKILL:
Matching x to x | y to y, therefor does z to z matter, That's hard to say.
But if x > x y > y but z < z , then yes, Z matters. In this case consistency.

What it feels like to have no consistency, especially in regards to keeping a tempo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDAsABdkWSc



edit: I'd also argue that there are a lot of mental shinanagins when it comes to consistency.Some people have performance anxiety , overcoming nerves is absolutely a skill. But I guess in this game consistency implies there was no nerves to begin with, in which case i direct you to Seouless' profile: https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3328676

Last edited by zeplic , edited 2 times in total.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Consistency technically is a skill but you can split it into parts:

Consistency = aim + reading

Why is that?

Consistent player can get same, similar or better score on a map in repeat, depends if there is a part which happen to be a wall.
You cannot be consistent without aim, nor without reading.

But as others said - consistency is locked to certain range of maps per player. One is consistent at 3-4* maps where he barely miss at all and can easiely fix play with miss into FC ot better combo, other is consistent in higher star maps, normally all is related to how far are developed your skills.

Consistency as an independent skill is an ability to play long maps - player is able to consistently run one map after another and keep up super high combo (1k... 2k... 3k...) before certain aspect of nerves kicks in and start being a potential problem to FC.

Simple example about myself as obviously I know what is going on:
I don't have consistency for short maps due requirements for aim to maps builded strictly from difficulty spike (honestly, tv-size maps are mostly just an difficulty spike).
From other side, I have consistency for long maps, for me it doesn't matter which map I play, in over 90% cases I am able to kick 1-2k+ combo without warmup on marathon size maps.

Also nature of marathon maps is that after you are "inside", already warmed up for certain map, you know the structure and how it flows, dealing with difficulty spike placed often at the end is easier.

There are also minor parts of consistency like streaming ability, control etc but it comes to voice in certain maps (heavy stream maps, technical maps etc).
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

zeplic wrote:

But speaking from a different context, i often had more speed, more ability, more stamina than another person. But ultimately, I was never as consistent . It's absolutely a skill if you look at it from that perspective.
I can understand what not being able to keep a tempo (I played the classical guitar as a kid (I could play Asturias badly), but I could not play with a metronome; I was notoriously bad at keeping a tempo), but that skill of keeping to a tempo osu! is just called "accuracy".

I didn't understand your notation btw.

SPOILER
Seouless: How do you combo when you're nervous?
Axarious: Even if you're nervous, just combo anyways.

[Taiga] wrote:

Consistency as an independent skill is an ability to play long maps - player is able to consistently run one map after another and keep up super high combo (1k... 2k... 3k...) before certain aspect of nerves kicks in and start being a potential problem to FC.
I understand what people usually mean by consistency, but I'm not sure players with the same aim, acc, reading, speed, etc. can have very different levels of consistency.

I've noticed my own consistency at 4.5* - 5.5* non-technical maps increase a lot, but I've also become better at bursts of 7* jumps and at passing harder technical beatmaps. So I conclude that my consistency has just increased because I've gotten better aim, speed and reading, not because I've gotten better at "consistency" as an independent skill.
Last edited by Mio Winter , edited 1 time in total.
zeplic
85 posts
Joined September 2012
zeplic
easy blow to the guy with a low profile acc. :(

While i disagree, my argument is basically nullified by your reply. :|

that said, i took some time to edit my post, maybe it adds more support to the side that consistency is a skill
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

zeplic wrote:

easy blow to the guy with a low profile acc. :(
HOYL your profile acc is lower than mine. May I have your autograph? O.O
zeplic
85 posts
Joined September 2012
zeplic
I've noticed my own consistency at 4.5* - 5.5* non-technical maps increase a lot, but I've also become better at bursts of 7* jumps and at passing harder technical beatmaps. So I conclude that my consistency has just increased because I've gotten better aim, speed and reading, not because I've gotten better at "consistency" as an independent skill.

Here's my rebuttle:

SPOILER

vs

I did just cherry pick the extreme examples, but my consistency has not improved over a month of playing this daily,
That said, i do have an upwards trend of accuracy.

Therefor consistency =/= accuracy.

This is assuming of course that i did actually get better over a month, which id really like to believe.
Last edited by zeplic , edited 1 time in total.
zeplic
85 posts
Joined September 2012
zeplic

Mio Winter wrote:

zeplic wrote:

easy blow to the guy with a low profile acc. :(
HOYL your profile acc is lower than mine. May I have your autograph? O.O
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

zeplic wrote:

Mio Winter wrote:

HOYL your profile acc is lower than mine. May I have your autograph? O.O
<3


...Also, language is so hard. I did not mean that consistency is the same as accuracy. I just mentioned that your ability keep to a tempo is pretty much what we call "accuracy" in osu!.
N0thingSpecial
2,355 posts
Joined November 2015
N0thingSpecial
Why is this important just click circles lol

Consistency is a skill I guess since I notice I don't get nervous when holding long combo compare to when I started. Like you know there are people who have big reaction after a good play yelling MY HEART JUST FUKIN STOPPED *HYPERVENTILATE*, and there's people like me who just go good stuff *sip on a cup of tea* and move on.
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Why is this important just click circles lol

Consistency is a skill I guess since I notice I don't get nervous when holding long combo compare to when I started. Like you know there are people who have big reaction after a good play yelling MY HEART JUST FUKIN STOPPED *HYPERVENTILATE*, and there's people like me who just go good stuff *sip on a cup of tea* and move on.
Yeah, that part I definitely get. But I never FC anything, so I haven't had to learn to deal with nerves. : P
Atara
54 posts
Joined March 2017
Atara
I definitely would say that consistency is an individual skill and can be trained.

But I see why you have created this thread because skill and consistency have enough similarities to make one confused.

Skill
The raw ability to complete an action such as jumping from one side of the map to the other regardless of accuracy/hit probability


Consistency
The ability to complete an action such as jumping from one side of the map to the other over and over with reasonably high accuracy and high hit probability


You can train consistency by playing maps that are reasonably easy for you to fine tune your skill and become consistent, such as playing 180 - 200bpm streams and learning to get all 300's almost every time.

Skill is trained by playing maps that are reasonably hard for you to gain the ability to perform an action you were previously unable to do, such as playing 240 bpm streams and being able to get 100s on it.
autoteleology
763 posts
Joined October 2014
autoteleology

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Why is this important just click circles lol

Consistency is a skill I guess since I notice I don't get nervous when holding long combo compare to when I started. Like you know there are people who have big reaction after a good play yelling MY HEART JUST FUKIN STOPPED *HYPERVENTILATE*, and there's people like me who just go good stuff *sip on a cup of tea* and move on.
The ice in your veins will never be as cold as rrtyui's.

https://youtu.be/JH39wi_na2M?t=2m9s

If I SS'ed Big Black, my reaction would probably not be a stone-faced "oh".
zeplic
85 posts
Joined September 2012
zeplic

Philosofikal wrote:

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Why is this important just click circles lol

Consistency is a skill I guess since I notice I don't get nervous when holding long combo compare to when I started. Like you know there are people who have big reaction after a good play yelling MY HEART JUST FUKIN STOPPED *HYPERVENTILATE*, and there's people like me who just go good stuff *sip on a cup of tea* and move on.
The ice in your veins will never be as cold as rrtyui's.

https://youtu.be/JH39wi_na2M?t=2m9s

If I SS'ed Big Black, my reaction would probably not be a stone-faced "oh".

It doesn't mean he wasn't nervous.

Personally, I'll get nervous anyways whether i know i can do something, consistently or not, and after not choking, i just feel entitled and move on. Nerves of steel is not equivalent to reaction of achievement
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