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[Rule] No difficulty is allowed to exceed a score of 18 mill

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27
Lunah_old
Topic Starter
Lunah_old
No difficulty is allowed to exceed a score of 18 million points (check this by pressing F5 in the editor to test play the map). If you want your map in the "ranked" category, then you can shorten the map (or replace a portion with a break), lower the difficulty settings (within reason), or remap part of the difficulty. Do not resort to dropping the slider tick rate to reduce score. Otherwise, the map can be "approved". The only difference is that an approved map does not count towards a player's ranked score, but there will still be an online scoreboard.
following my previously post http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1074116#p1074116

Why not 20 milions or 22 milions ?, increasing the score limit you can also increase the time limit of a map (rule),
2-4 milions does really influence the ranking score?

a lot of times mappers should "destroy" their beatmaps due to total score fault, adding sliders instead of beat or stuff like this
Mashiro Mito
Mashiro Mito

Lunah wrote:

Why not 20 milions or 22 milions ?, increasing the score limit you can also increase the time limit of a map (rule),
2-4 milions does really influence the ranking score?

When they change the rule to 20millions, people is going to start ask for more :D
I would say 20 millions should be good enough. 22millions will be the max grace BAT should give to to a mapper.

when it come with time vs score, i think:

if the time is too long and score exceeds 18 million, the map is probably boring for players(doesn't hurt to just listen to music).
if the time is too long and score exceeds 18 million, then the map might* be too tiring(doesn't hurt to improve your skills).

in both cases, it will make player better.
in the first case, I don't see it why not put it in ranked. It doesn't make sense putting it in approved.
the second case however, it makes more sense to put it in approved, but still, it can still be ranked.

So... yeah, 20 million is good, but we need to find a way not to judge maps base on score as the length factor will contribute to score a lot.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru
They discussed this briefly in the BAT/MAT discussion, and I agree with the general consensus that it should be bumped to 20 mil, with that being the hard, absolute cap. Reasoning:

1. 18 mil is a random, hard number to remember. 20 mil is much easier and a much nicer number.

2. You can go slightly over 18 mil and still make a reasonable map. You cannot, however, go past 20 mil without being either A. Really long or B. A map that breaks mouses.
Colin Hou
osu! Alumni
4,456 posts
Joined November 2009
Colin Hou
of course there should be a limit for the max score, and 18 mill might be a choice (it works not that bad for now).

but remember that not all maps can achieve that limit. and for many short or tv size map, the length is 1:30 ~ 2:00, with score 2 ~ 4 million. but a 3:00 ~ 4:00 song can be 14 ~ 18million or more, that's just not very ballanced.
yes we should give more score to the harder/longer map cuz they are absolutely harder than the ones short, but how much is now we're discussing.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
18 millions is the recommended limit.
20 million is the very maximum.
Lunah_old
Topic Starter
Lunah_old

Odaril wrote:

18 millions is the recommended limit.
20 million is the very maximum.
The rule don't say so at the moment, if they're going to add it, it will be reasonable, 20milion as max max score should be okay in my eyes
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
It was somewhere in the MAT/BAT discussion that 20m is absolute. Although the rules should mention it.
SapphireGhost
osu! Alumni
2,618 posts
Joined June 2010
SapphireGhost
Alright, bumping this as there's something new to add. I'm suggesting a max score limit of somewhere around 25,000,000 points. Recently I've been seeing several maps that are being forced to use Tick Rate 1 (when Tick Rate 2 arguably plays more nicely) and longer breaks (when more notes would be more fun) to reduce the score of the map lower than 18,000,000.

Basically, maps have been getting tougher and the score limit is forcing them to be modified in ways that detriment the map, so I'd like to continue discussion on possibly raising the score cap.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
Oh. This was amended quite some time ago. The hard maximum is 20 million and it's recommended to keep it under 18 millions.
Anything above 20 million is really too high.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
But actually, it's not an hardcoded limit, as the rules still permit borderline (or even a bit like the borderilne) cases like 20,000,100
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
Why do we have to limit the score?
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
my bad, I actually don't know XD (limiting max score on ranked? trying to avoid making much score in one time and in an easy manner? Still, if a map has high score is: Hard as Hell(Approved-able) or Long, much Long)
anyway, an higher score cap would still work better like 25mil as Maximum and 18mil as Recommended...
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
Correct me if I'm wrong:

This rule was created back when paraparaMAX was approved. As it would pretty much double the scores, the approval category was made for it not to do so. With the creation of approval, all long maps or maps that gave "too much score" could be "ranked" without adding to the actual ranked score. Of course, a limit of score had to be drawn, and it was decided to be 15 millions, then raised to 18 million, now 20 million.

Approval is being discussed atm (a thread was made for it iirc), so if approval is removed, this rule will be removed as well.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
It's there any way to NOT remove the approved category? as choosing to remove it you'll ONLY recklessly raise an angry mob.
By the way, the score limit should be linked to the lenght- and that would be difficult to explain. So, 25 mil and 18 mil as max and recommended limits are still better ( you're going behind that limit at your own risk )
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
It's kept until the dicussion reaches an end.
Luvdic
2,113 posts
Joined July 2009
Luvdic

ziin wrote:

Why do we have to limit the score?
Approval maps should be determined by it's length rather than score. I also believe that approval maps were made so people couldn't get like 100 millions of points so easily to their ranked score.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

ErufenRito wrote:

ziin wrote:

Why do we have to limit the score?
Approval maps should be determined by it's length rather than score. I also believe that approval maps were made so people couldn't get like 100 millions of points so easily to their ranked score.
It's better to cap the score, not the map then.
Luvdic
2,113 posts
Joined July 2009
Luvdic
Why score? It's not the same getting 20m in this map http://osu.ppy.sh/b/70760 or getting 20 m in this map http://osu.ppy.sh/b/9007.

I guess that what I mean is that if the map is hard enough where achieving 20+m score is not that easy, then there shouldn't be any problems. And usually, the maps under 4 minutes length and has over 20m as max score, is usually hard enough imo.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
It's still better to use an higher difference between recommended and maximum score ( 18 mil - 25 mil ) to reasonably not make mappers fit the score and use lower settings, for example
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

ErufenRito wrote:

Why score?
because it lets you not have to worry about the max score at all and just make the best map you can. For the easy maps to get 20 million on (marathons), it's the same difficulty for everyone. All they have to do is play it. it's not any less fair, and since you can still get 196 million on the song in unranked score, there will still be competition to get top 50.

The only thing it would affect is previously approved maps (each counting 20 million) and new maps which have over 20 million.

If the reason for not ranking 20 million+ maps is because of the score, then cap the score. If the reason is something else, then capping the score won't solve the problem.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Capping the score was an issue before because the users would get a lot of rank ups (or actually double their ranked score) from playing a single map, nowadays that isn't a problem so i don't see much point on capping the max score nowadays, the song length cap is to not force players to play extremely long maps, so i'm going more towards removing the score cap than the length cap.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

Sakura Hana wrote:

Capping the score was an issue before because the users would get a lot of rank ups (or actually double their ranked score) from playing a single map, nowadays that isn't a problem so i don't see much point on capping the max score nowadays, the song length cap is to not force players to play extremely long maps, so i'm going more towards removing the score cap than the length cap.
Ranked maps only count once right? Also, I'm suggesting that only ranked score be capped. unranked score is uncapped. So parapara max full combo would be 300 million total score, 20 million ranked score. This prevents people from FCing this relatively easy song and suddenly jumping up 20 ranks (at #200-#1000, even more the higher rank you are) if approved maps all suddenly moved to ranked maps.

We can't fix this, only the devs can fix this. Also, this would let 21 million maps not be "questionably approved" anymore. It would count like normal, as a 20 million map.

If the reason for the score cap is to limit the length of songs, then we have to limit the length of ranked songs (which we have, 4:30 drain time is the hard limit).
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Ranked score doesn't even matter as much nowadays (and it wont even matter when the new ranking system comes) so why restrict the max score a map can have? better restrict the length, as i said, to not force player to play extremely long ranked maps.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

Sakura Hana wrote:

Ranked score doesn't even matter as much nowadays (and it wont even matter when the new ranking system comes) so why restrict the max score a map can have? better restrict the length, as i said, to not force player to play extremely long ranked maps.

ziin wrote:

This prevents people from FCing this relatively easy song and suddenly jumping up 20 ranks (at #200-#1000, even more the higher rank you are) if approved maps all suddenly moved to ranked maps.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

ziin wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

Ranked score doesn't even matter as much nowadays (and it wont even matter when the new ranking system comes) so why restrict the max score a map can have? better restrict the length, as i said, to not force player to play extremely long ranked maps.

ziin wrote:

This prevents people from FCing this relatively easy song and suddenly jumping up 20 ranks (at #200-#1000, even more the higher rank you are) if approved maps all suddenly moved to ranked maps.

That's why we put a length limit, only way to have a super high score would be overmapping.
Luvdic
2,113 posts
Joined July 2009
Luvdic

Sakura Hana wrote:

so i'm going more towards removing the score cap than the length cap.
/me approves that.

Sakura Hana wrote:

That's why we put a length limit, only way to have a super high score would be overmapping.
And this x1000. Alright, maybe not entirely, not all maps that have 20m score and less than 4 minutes lenght is overmapped....
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Max Score is no longer an issue, this rule shall now be forever removed.
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