Lilyanna wrote:

wait wtf is happening XD ezek did u map this while u were drunk lmao

Monstrata wrote:

Sharkie's Extra

00:13:172 (1,2,3) - The angle felt really sharp here.
agree

try somethign like this to facilitate some rotational flow. leads into ur stream ebtter too!

osu file format v14

[General]
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[Metadata]
Title:Harumachi Clover
TitleUnicode:春待ちクローバー
Artist:Hanasaka Yui(CV: M.A.O)
ArtistUnicode:花坂結衣(CV：Ｍ・Ａ・Ｏ)
Creator:ezek
Version:Sharkie's Extra
Source:OneRoom
Tags:tvsize tv size kantoku カントク one room ワンルーム MkGuh ReFaller Sharkie fieryrage
BeatmapID:1383498
BeatmapSetID:652412

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1. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Patterns such as this one don't seem to follow much in the music. They're spaced all roughly the same, they do not really make a concrete shape and do not accentuate anything. When everything is spaced in a similar manner, nothing stands out and the pattern becomes very bland to play.
   
2. 00:03:453 (2,3,4,5,6) - Here you seem to start emphasizing the claps unlike your previous pattern - but one measure later you omit those from your accentuations again at 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4) - .
   
3. 00:10:003 (2,3,4,5,6) - Pattern separation seems to be wrong here. You used the same spacing for 00:09:791 (1,2,3) - when 00:10:214 (3) - has the strongest vocal and a clap (both of which you accentuated at some point in the map, but omitted here)
   
4. 00:13:172 (1,2,3,4,5) - The same goes for this pattern - all notes are spaced the same when there is a clear difference in intensity as there are finishes on some notes.
   
5. Issues may repeat themselves.

1. 00:07:045 (3,4,5) - This angle plays very abruptly, is overspaced and the movement feels forced.
   
2. 00:08:101 (1,2,3,4) - This part suddenly uses a lot of consecutive sliders when, looking at your previous patterns, the map seemed to be very circle-based before.
   
3. 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The wide angles here come as a suprise - you used mostly snappy angles before. If you compare it to 00:18:242 (1,2,3,4) - , this one is a ton harder to play both in spacing and movement, even though they are the same in the song.
   
4. Issues may repeat themselves.

Beatmap Nominator wrote:

Hello, I deem the map not ready for ranking in its current state. Hello there~

Maximum Clover Power

Unclear accentuation of the music

1. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Patterns such as this one don't seem to follow much in the music. They're spaced all roughly the same, they do not really make a concrete shape and do not accentuate anything. When everything is spaced in a similar manner, nothing stands out and the pattern becomes very bland to play.
   
2. 00:03:453 (2,3,4,5,6) - Here you seem to start emphasizing the claps unlike your previous pattern - but one measure later you omit those from your accentuations again at 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4) - . Ok, here I'm replying for this point and the one from above~ I see you're a newer mapper (and BN), and I'm an old guy, so we have different perspectives in mapping. As an old mapper I prefer to not concentrate much on individual note spacing depending on the intensity and I rather organize the objects in certain patterns. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - In this pattern I am taking the stronger vocals as a whole, hence the similar spacing within it. 00:03:453 (2,3,4,5,6) - Here, yeah, I switched to emphasizing the claps, but don't think it was random decision. In this place the vocals are not as relevant as in 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - imo, so I decided to add some variety on what I'm following to make the map more interesting to play. 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4) - Here, again I am starting to follow the strongest vocals like in the first pattern mentioned (new stanza). Then, as you can see, I switch my focus differently in the next measure just like in the previous patterns.
   
3. 00:10:003 (2,3,4,5,6) - Pattern separation seems to be wrong here. You used the same spacing for 00:09:791 (1,2,3) - when 00:10:214 (3) - has the strongest vocal and a clap (both of which you accentuated at some point in the map, but omitted here) You're right on this one, fixed~
   
4. 00:13:172 (1,2,3,4,5) - The same goes for this pattern - all notes are spaced the same when there is a clear difference in intensity as there are finishes on some notes. As you can hear, besides the intensity-varying instruments, there's also the vocals of the artist screaming, which become relevant for me, and as you already know by this point of my reply, when important vocals come, I decide to map them as a whole rather than focusing on single object spacing, hence the pattern (a clear shape made from all those strong vocals unifies them as a whole). But I also thought about the strong instrumental part, that's why I also increased the spacing significantly in this pattern. It's just a different way of what you prefer to follow the music on a personal level, so please understand that not everyone will map the same, and that's okay.
   
5. Issues may repeat themselves.

Gameplay elements

1. 00:07:045 (3,4,5) - This angle plays very abruptly, is overspaced and the movement feels forced. My testplayers didn't have problems with it.
   
2. 00:08:101 (1,2,3,4) - This part suddenly uses a lot of consecutive sliders when, looking at your previous patterns, the map seemed to be very circle-based before. This is the last starting part of the vocals before the big star-shaped jumps, so I'm making some contrast with it, plus it should help players to rest a tiny bit before the mentioned jumps.Another thing I wanna add is that the vocals even sound quite different from previous patterns. I don't see this small variation as something bad; yes, it's being inconsistent in the matter of the objects used, but it has a purpose to be that way.
   
3. 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The wide angles here come as a suprise - you used mostly snappy angles before. If you compare it to 00:18:242 (1,2,3,4) - , this one is a ton harder to play both in spacing and movement, even though they are the same in the song. There are absolutely no issues with this. I don't think of these as wide angles, and neither Kisses, as you can see from his post lul. Also, I made the jumps a bit larger than previous patterns because this is pretty much the climax of the song and I want players to get that feeling.
   
4. Issues may repeat themselves.

Other than that, CS6,5 on the top diff feels very forced and seems to be added for no other reason than sheer difficulty and the map does not very well support this gimmick - angles with very harsh movements such as 00:06:834 (2,3) - and 00:22:256 (4,5,6,7,8,1) - and 00:24:580 (8,1) - play very unnatural with such small circles since the likelihood of slipping out of sliders accidentally is increased a lot the higher the CS gets. Not an issue, as you can see even a couple of people took their time to post about this. It plays just fine. About the CS, that's pretty much more personal and I mapped the song with it since I started the diff, it's nothing that I forced later just for the sake of increasing difficulty and I made my patterns based on this CS.

I don't think the BG on the top diff fits. It has nothing to do with OneRoom as far as I can see. I feel like the bg fits on a personal level, and as the mapper I wish to keep it. You see, you can hear cute young voices in the song, and when I hear those voices I can think of the characters in the current background of the highest diff performing this song. Well, that's how I see things. You know, I used to have this background for all the difficulties, but I left it just for the highest difficulty so the set doesn't feel random overall; this shouldn't be an issue now.

Due to above reasoning, I'm placing a veto on this map. This means the mapset can not be rebubbled by Monstrata and can only be overruled by a third BN.
As Monstrata said, you just placed a veto even before I could even reply to your mod; not knowing whether I was going to either accept or reject all of your suggestions/"issues" . You didn't give me a chance to breathe or tell you if I agreed with your reasoning. It felt somewhat agressive and rushed tbh. Sadly, this makes me believe Naotoshi's statement below your post is actually right. It is not only that, but also because of the fact that you posted this earlier on this thread, which looks quite negative and against the song, not the map. I hope my thoughts about this are wrong and this is not the truth because this is not a suitable behavior for someone in your current position and we all should be friends in this game. Despite this, thank you for taking some of your time to have a look at my map and express your concerns.

Kisses wrote:

@voli I wouldn't consider 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) to be wide angles, just saying.
[]
some more stuff

00:27:115 (3) - shouldn't this be a clap instead of normal sampleset? Looking at the way the rest of the section was hitsounded Yes but no, while it is true that this normally would be a clap, I decided to use a normal sampleset to make it stand out from the surrounding objects with the same hitsound (clap), plus it is the last kind of this sound in the song, so I want it to be special (that's why this is consistent on the rest of the diffs)

00:24:791 (1) - The spacing of this specifically seemed a tad too high compared to the spacing of the rest of the map it's for emphasis in the scream+strong instrument, which is also something that stands out quite a lot compared to the rest of the song~

[]
w ~

1. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - You justify these patterns by saying you incorporate all of these notes into one ''general intensity'' kind of pattern. That does kind of contrast with the way other parts of your map are done (for example you put heavy accentuation on ''individual'' clap sounds 00:03:453 (2,6) -, 00:10:214 (3) - etc. ). Besides that, I feel there are many better ways to express this part 00:01:341 (1,2,3) -. Rather than incorporating two different vocal sections into one big star-like pattern, you could more clearly define the latter part of the vocals as you did in these kind of patterns 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - .
   
2. 00:03:453 (2,3,4,5) - Yes, you switched to claps here, but the problem is that you expressed this pattern exactly the same as your patterns that follow the vocals. That, in my opinion, makes little sense and doesn't clearly outline a concept besides ''use squares whenever you don't know what to do''. Besides, I don't really understand the choice for a square pattern here either way since these notes all differ in intensity.
   
3. 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - You said there are no issues with this at all. I think the angle at which the pattern is placed makes a half square-like thing like this 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4) - super awkward to play. Even more so because the latter part again isn't clearly defined at 00:15:707 (5,6,7) - .
   
4. 00:17:186 (3,4,5) - symmetry is rather forced, you map to vocals with this object 00:17:186 (3) - but 00:17:820 (5) - focuses on something completely different.
   
5. 00:22:256 (4,5,6) - These triples throughout the map and the angles you placed them on (you first have to move your cursor all the way to the bottom and then make a reverse motion upwards again) feel way too overemphasized for the soft percussion they represent. You said your testplayers didn't have problems with it, which isn't really a strong argument on its own, but apart from that I also think it could be better from a design perspective.

ezek wrote:

As Monstrata said, you just placed a veto even before I could even reply to your mod; not knowing whether I was going to either accept or reject all of your suggestions/"issues" . You didn't give me a chance to breathe or tell you if I agreed with your reasoning. It felt somewhat agressive and rushed tbh. Sadly, this makes me believe Naotoshi's statement below your post is actually right. It is not only that, but also because of the fact that you posted this earlier on this thread, which looks quite negative and against the song, not the map. I hope my thoughts about this are wrong and this is not the truth because this is not a suitable behavior for someone in your current position and we all should be friends in this game. Despite this, thank you for taking some of your time to have a look at my map and express your concerns.

Beatmap Nominator wrote:

As per further clarification.

1. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - You justify these patterns by saying you incorporate all of these notes into one ''general intensity'' kind of pattern. That does kind of contrast with the way other parts of your map are done (for example you put heavy accentuation on ''individual'' clap sounds 00:03:453 (2,6) -, 00:10:214 (3) - etc. ). Besides that, I feel there are many better ways to express this part 00:01:341 (1,2,3) -. Rather than incorporating two different vocal sections into one big star-like pattern, you could more clearly define the latter part of the vocals as you did in these kind of patterns 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - . 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - is just a variation I'm using to make the map feel more dynamic, as you can see I used. So basically 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5) - first verse, mapped vocals as a whole~ 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - second verse, created some sense of progression in the strength of the vocals. It repeats itself~ 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - first verse, objects have similar spacing and forming a shape, mapped as a whole, then 00:18:242 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - second verse again, same concept. This is like.. very easy to understand and I was consistent with my concept. It's obvious that I mapped it this way on purpose because that's how I want to make a fun dynamic map but also not ruining what is the representation of the song from my perspective.
   
2. 00:03:453 (2,3,4,5) - Yes, you switched to claps here, but the problem is that you expressed this pattern exactly the same as your patterns that follow the vocals. That, in my opinion, makes little sense and doesn't clearly outline a concept besides ''use squares whenever you don't know what to do''. Besides, I don't really understand the choice for a square pattern here either way since these notes all differ in intensity. I believe I have explained this already.
   
3. 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - You said there are no issues with this at all. I think the angle at which the pattern is placed makes a half square-like thing like this 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4) - super awkward to play. Even more so because the latter part again isn't clearly defined at 00:15:707 (5,6,7) - . Some experienced players already let us know that this is fine. Well, now on the matter of the square-like thing you meantioned, this is no square at all, they're pretty much two triangles made by 1 2 3 and 4 5 6, then I'm using 7 to transition to the next measure that starts with a stack of notes starting with 8 (plus makes the whole pattern feel more complete as it fills a gap just like 5 does).
   
4. 00:17:186 (3,4,5) - symmetry is rather forced, you map to vocals with this object 00:17:186 (3) - but 00:17:820 (5) - focuses on something completely different. 00:17:186 (3) - starts on a strong vocal and 00:17:820 (5) - starts on a strong instrument, which imo is a good way to transition from vocals to instruments, especially when there are no more vocals in this measure and there are a lot of circles coming ahead~ I feel the map would feel more unbalanced if I decided to use more circles in this measure.
   
5. 00:22:256 (4,5,6) - These triples throughout the map and the angles you placed them on (you first have to move your cursor all the way to the bottom and then make a reverse motion upwards again) feel way too overemphasized for the soft percussion they represent. You said your testplayers didn't have problems with it, which isn't really a strong argument on its own, but apart from that I also think it could be better from a design perspective. Come on, this is cs6.5 and the jump is not really that big how you make it sound with the word "overemphasized". The point of the map is not to be super friendly and just make everyone able to fc at first attempt lol, and the fact that testplayers didn't have problem is a fine reason since well... players are not having issues and those are the people who are going to play the map after all. Well, aside of the players being okay with it, I already declined with my own belief.

ezek wrote:

As Monstrata said, you just placed a veto even before I could even reply to your mod; not knowing whether I was going to either accept or reject all of your suggestions/"issues" . You didn't give me a chance to breathe or tell you if I agreed with your reasoning. It felt somewhat agressive and rushed tbh. Sadly, this makes me believe Naotoshi's statement below your post is actually right. It is not only that, but also because of the fact that you posted this earlier on this thread, which looks quite negative and against the song, not the map. I hope my thoughts about this are wrong and this is not the truth because this is not a suitable behavior for someone in your current position and we all should be friends in this game. Despite this, thank you for taking some of your time to have a look at my map and express your concerns.

A veto is simply a preemptive measure BNs can take (as of now, rip moddingv2?) when they feel a bubble was placed too rashly. As I can point out design flaws in nearly every single pattern of the top difficulty of this 30 second-long map, it leads me to believe that I acted accordingly. As for your questioning of my motive, it's not a secret to anyone that this song has been mapped and ranked countless times already in the past few months. To keep the game's content fresh and not repetitive, I personally think that if you, as a game, keep releasing the same content over and over again, it should be held to quite a higher standard than previous iterations. The community has expressed their discomfort and concerns about this song being continuously ranked already and I think we (as BNs) should actively participate in upholding the quality of said content. That said, in my opinion, slapping cs6,5 onto a map like this doesn't really contribute to that either.

Weber wrote:

I'd argue that the visual difference between the OneRoom bg and the furry bg is uh, pretty substantial, even if you discount the actual irrelevance, doesn't seem appropriate just because you think "oh these sound like these characters in my head" while still using a bg from the actual source material in the other diffs. Go all or nothing, because having both makes the top diff look HORRENDOUSLY out of place.

Also, why didn't you use the furry bg for all of your diffs if that's what you visualize when listening to it?

Naotoshi wrote:

i do agree with my previous statement about the bg, and yea vetoing a map cuz you don't like the song is pretty stupid imo :p

anyway if sharkie and fiery are willing to seriously revamp their diffs i would be willing to help out, since the song isn't changing voli isn't gonna remove his veto.

Chromoxx wrote:

I approve of the bg

Chromoxx wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5924058 neverforget ;w;

Regraz wrote:

M4M

[Easy]
00:26:481 (1) - Better Ctrl+H in shape. applied~

[Normal]
00:08:101 (1,3) - These two sliders look a bit too close as to visual spacing true, fixed~

00:13:172 (1,2,3) - These three sharp sliders looks ehh They highlight an important and unique part of the song

[Maximum Clover Power]
00:06:411 (1) - Ctrl+G for a better flow? agree, applied

Regraz wrote:

[Mk's Light Insane]
00:11:270 (6,1) - Triplet here too? Like 00:09:580 (5,6,1) - ye fixed

ezek wrote:

1. 00:07:045 (3,4,5) - This angle plays very abruptly, is overspaced and the movement feels forced. My testplayers didn't have problems with it.

1. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The map is already starting off with one of these patterns. The problem here is not really the emphasis as you put it right onto the white ticks but spacing wise, I can't really make out a sense behind it. Especially 00:02:397 (6,7) - is a huge spike in it while you then have to abruptly slow down on 00:02:608 (7,8) - making the movement very uncomfortable.
2. 00:13:383 (2,3,4,5) - While I see this as a pattern-based emphasis, you always use single note emphasis in the rest of the map. Moreover I don't see any structure behind this one at all, it just seems like you have placed random notes over the screen in order to express the intensity.
3. 00:14:862 - From this point on, why do you suddenly spike up the spacing much more than in the beginning? The music is really similar to the first sections, I don't really see a shift in intensity.
4. 00:21:834 (2,3) - This angle is so wide that it does not really fit in with the other flow used in the map which was mainly sharp jumps.

Monstrata wrote:

You can't veto a map without hearing the other person's side first. What if they fix everything you considered an issue? Don't make this a repeat of Alien... A veto happens when you and the mapper are unable to agree on something.

Chromoxx wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5924058 neverforget ;w;

Mao wrote:

Hey ezek, I'm popping your bubble because I still have some concerns about the mapset in general that I think weren't addressed properly.

[Maximum Clover Power]

ezek wrote:

1. 00:07:045 (3,4,5) - This angle plays very abruptly, is overspaced and the movement feels forced. My testplayers didn't have problems with it.

Just because they didn't have problems does not mean that they haven't felt that it's forced. Well, they didn't say it felt forced~ it was fine for them iirc (it's been 2 months, yikes!). Anyway, you should testplay it yourself and give me your own thought to confirm this.

Anyways, I don't agree with the map not fitting the song, in fact the pattern-based emphasis works pretty well.
My major complaint about this difficulty however is that even if you mapped it with CS6.5 in mind, you did not execute it very well in my opinion. While the map itself play fine, every jump plays like a full screenjump. Due to that the difficulty feels like it's risen artificially like you would play it with Hardrock enabled.
My suggestion to fix this issue is to just turn down the CS by at least one, so you'd still have a pretty low CS but improve the map's feel greatly. Umm.. isn't that the purpose if CS in first place? This is subjective, something that is up for the mapper. It would be like saying that the CS on pishi's low CS extras make them feel too easy. You even mentioned the thing that actually matters, which is the map fitting the song. The patterns and the jumps represent the song while CS is is there to make a challenge. I feel my map wouldn't be the same if I increase CS, and as you mentioned, I mapped with CS6.5 in mind. So I'm not changing CS for the likes of others, it would just ruin my creation. (If that isn't enough, I could say the small cs represents the cuteness of the voices because small = cute.)