*edits a lot*
*looks back at OP*

Dang.

I haven't played EBA or Ouendan 2 for almost a year, and frankly, I'm having fun replaying it right now. osu! has the most potential than the original games (peppy + game idea = worldwide attraction), but it just seems to lack some of the little details that define osu! as the perfect Ouendan/EBA simulator.

So anyway, I'm gonna build up a list of requests here, so the Feature Request forum doesn't get spammed by me. I look for these small details by playing through EBA and Ouendan 2, so I'll confirm whether the details happen in both games, or just one. I don't have Ouendan 1, so it'll be appreciated if that request is confirmed in that game by someone else.

Note: I do realize that osu! is straying away from a real Ouendan/EBA sim. We mostly have a two in one sim (taiko in the mix), and I also overheard someone (most likely peppy) in the last community meeting that osu! isn't an Ouendan/EBA simulator anymore. Although it revolves around the original formula, making it better (but not too different) is the main goal of this sim (at least, imo). So, if there's some request that would make osu! look plain stupid or graphically worse, I'll accept that, and it's pretty much peppy's call if that certain request would happen.

And, if there's stuff I missed (I'm sure), go ahead and post, and I'll edit it into the OP. Or edit it in yourself if you're a mod. >_> BTW, I won't remove any stuff from the list (most of the time). I'll simply strike it, mark as done, etc. When osu! 1.0 is done, we'll have something to look at for any unwanted & authentic discrepancies.

orange = done
green = may not do (by personal preference)/up to debate
blue = pending/up to debate
red = a straight out "NO."

Slider Tick Score Positioning *IDK...*

I carefully observed a slider, and I noticed that each 10 and 30 of the slider tick gives out different behavior. Pretend that there is a straight slider, going from bottom to top. When it starts, a 30 rises from the center of the slider's beginning to the space to the left of the slider beginning. For each tick, 10's pop out to the left of the slider. And the slider's end has the 30 rise to the space on top of the end circle.
When a slider is going from top to bottom, the beginning 30 pops to the right, as do the 10's, and the last 30 pops upward.
When a slider goes from right to left, the end 30 pops upward, as usual. 10's fly to the bottom side of the slider, along with the beginning 30..
This means that the beginning 30 and all the 10's are always flying 270° clockwise (90° counter-clockwise) of the slider ball's direction. (So if the ball's going north, 10's pop out left, east is up, south is right, west is down, northeast is top left, etc...) In short, it's to the left of the ball.
When there are repeats in a slider, the 30's act differently. In a slider w/o a repeat, the end 30 always rises upward. When a repeat appears, the second 30 rises upward as usual, but the next 30 follows the first 30's behavior (as in the 270° rule). Also, since the slider ball has changed direction, so do the 10's. They now fly to the other side of the slider.
If a slider has two repeats, a pattern follows for the 30's. Beginning 30 follows the 10's, the second 30 goes upward, the third 30 goes with the 10's, and the forth goes upward.

Therefore, slider tick scores shoot out like so: the beginning 30 is always 270° clockwise from the ball's direction, and so do all the 10's. The rest of the 30's follow a pattern of up, then 270°, then up, then °, and so on.

Also, all the slider tick scores are shown on top of the slider, but underneath a beat's score. (That means the 10's and 30's are always visible except under a 300, 100, 50, katu, etc.) It will show for a split second on top of the slider ball, but be invisible until the slider ball no longer covers it.

Confirmed in EBA and Ouendan 2.

EDIT: Formula fixed.

Unrelated request: have something in skin.ini that lets the slider ticks have the original behavior in osu! as of now.

2nd Unrelated request: instead of 10's popping out 270° clockwise from the ball's direction all the time, have it so the position changes by 30° for each slider tick. After 12 ticks, the 10's would have made a complete circle, and it kinda looks like spreading fireworks.

Shaking Screen w/ combobreak *Done?* (notes shake = background shake?)

When the Ouendan/Agents fall from a missed slider tick/X, the bottom screen's background, along with the ki bar, will shake violently in a range of about 5 pixels (on the DS screen) for around a second. You can see a black background underneath the real background while it's shaking.

Implement this when combobreak.wav sounds, so that it happens only when a combo is broken above 30?

BTW, don't do this for beatmaps for video (unless using NoVideo mod). It'll lag and frustrate. =/
Confirmed in EBA and Ouendan 2.

Combo Counter's "x" *IDK...*

When the combo counter increases, only the numbers fade in, not the "x". This applies to the "連" in the Ouendan games.


EDIT: Also, for the combo counter, the numbers fade in on top of itself, not behind. DONE
Confirmed in EBA and Ouendan 2.

Button Fading/Animations *Declined*

Have an option in the skin.ini flie to make (animated) buttons keep their original opacity, and not fade when the cursor isn't placed on top of the buttons.

This would be for skip buttons for the EBO and Ouendan 2 skins; skip buttons could blink like in the original (two frames, one the button and the other none), and won't fade ingame.

Option to move combo counter *Declined*

Just put something in Options to switch the positioning of the combo counter. Pretty much useless, except for tablet PC peeps. Also, when the combo increases, the numbers always fade in from right to left, no matter what side the counter is on.

About Missing a Slider End *IDK...*

Currently, in osu!, if you miss a slider's end (not repeat), it will not break the combo counter, nor will it add to the combo counter. In Ouendan/EBA, however, missing a slider end and getting a 100 or 50 will still add to the counter. Here's how it works...
If a slider has no ticks nor repeats, and the beginning of the slider was touched, but not the end, then the counter will raise by two. If a slider has ticks, and the whole slider is missed, then the missed slider end does not add to the counter. However, if a tick, repeat, or beginning is right before the end, and that is successfully cleared, the counter will count that tick/repeat/beginning AND the end, even though it is missed. Therefore, if the end of the slider is missed, it will only add to the counter if there was a tick/repeat/beginning before it that was touched successfully. In the original games, missing a slider end never meant not adding +1 to the combo counter. Therefore, you don't need 300's on all sliders in order to get a "PERFECT!" comment on the results.

Was it done on purpose, that in osu!, a missed slider end won't add or break the combo counter?
If it was on purpose, then I'll strike the idea.

If it wasn't, and peppy's planning on changing it, how will the ranked plays be recalculated? Will the system be fixed, then the replays will be run again on a nonlagging computer (to avoid score miscalcs) to recalculate to score, then resubmitted? Or will each replay be manually recalculated?

This request = Complete Score Reset...

I will eventually make a new topic in Feature Requests for this idea, not as a request for peppy, but really a poll for everyone about how to handle this new element...

Confirmed in all three games.

Slider Coloring Done

The path of the sliders are supposed to be transparent, and have tube-like coloring; the middle is more light and transparent, while the sides are the darker shades of that hitcircle's color.


(Sorry this was linked from PB. Should I upppy it?)

EDIT: This pic also shows the blue orbs and the slider tick score ideas. ^_^

This seems more uniform when played in OpenGL renderer, so I guess I'll count as done for now? =/

*IGNORE*

o_______O

Wow.

You're sure naming specifics.

I probably missed a lot, too. o_O

Oooh. I got another one. Editing...

Oh no, shaking screen... That's about as bad as pippi jumping from the side, but atleast this one would come to ruin your game when your doing badly, unlike pippi who comes when you're actually doing well.

Otherwise I'm neutral on the things that you ask for.

YoshiKart wrote:

I haven't played EBA or Ouendan 2 for almost a year, and frankly, I'm having fun replaying it right now. osu! has the most potential than the original games (peppy + game idea = worldwide attraction), but it just seems to lack some of the little details that define osu! as the perfect Ouendan/EBA simulator.

Well it isn't really a 100% accurate simulator, and was never meant to be, (and never will be) but...

YoshiKart wrote:

Slider Tick Score Positioning

I carefully observed a slider, and I noticed that each 10 and 30 of the slider tick gives out different behavior. Pretend that there is a straight slider, going from bottom to top. When it starts, a 30 rises from the center of the slider's beginning to the space to the left of the slider beginning. For each tick, 10's pop out to the left of the slider. And the slider's end has the 30 rise to the space on top of the end circle.
When a slider is going from top to bottom, the beginning 30 pops to the right, as do the 10's, and the last 30 pops upward.
When a slider goes from right to left, the end 30 pops upward, as usual. 10's fly to the bottom side of the slider, along with the beginning 30..
This means that the beginning 30 and all the 10's are always flying 270° clockwise (90° counter-clockwise) of the slider ball's direction. (So if the ball's going north, 10's pop out left, east is up, south is right, west is down, northeast is top left, etc...)
When there are repeats in a slider, the 30's (except for the beginning 30) act differently. In a slider w/o a repeat, the end 30 always rises upward. When a repeat appears, the second 30 rises upward as usual, but the next 30 goes downward instead. Also, since the slider ball has changed direction, so do the 10's. They now fly to the other side of the slider.
If a slider has two repeats, a pattern follows for the 30's. Beginning 30 follows the 10's, the second 30 goes upward, the third 30 goes downward, and the forth goes upward.

Therefore, slider tick scores shoot out like so: the beginning 30 is always 270° clockwise from the ball's direction, and so do all the 10's. The rest of the 30's follow a pattern of up, then down, then up, then down, and so on.

Also, all the slider tick scores are shown on top of the slider, but underneath a beat's score. (That means the 10's and 30's are always visible except under a 300, 100, 50, katu, etc.) It will show for a split second on top of the slider ball, but be invisible until the slider ball no longer covers it.

Not sure how this will look, but I'm pretty happy with the current behaviour.

YoshiKart wrote:

Confirmed in EBA and Ouendan 2.

Unrelated request: have something in skin.ini that lets the slider ticks have the original behavior in osu! as of now.

2nd Unrelated request: instead of 10's popping out 270° clockwise from the ball's direction all the time, have it so the position changes by 30° for each slider tick. After 12 ticks, the 10's would have made a complete circle, and it kinda looks like spreading fireworks.

Shaking Screen w/ combobreak

When the Ouendan/Agents fall from a missed slider tick/X, the bottom screen's background, along with the ki bar, will shake violently for around a second. You can see a black background underneath the real background while it's shaking.

I think this is a good one to add, but watch the complaints fly in when I add this one .

YoshiKart wrote:

Confirmed in EBA and Ouendan 2.

Implement this when combobreak.wav sounds, so that it happens only when a combo is broken above 30?

Combo Counter's "x"

When the combo counter increases, only the numbers fade in, not the "x".

The whole animation is different on ouendan. Not sure I plan on changing this.

YoshiKart wrote:

Confirmed in EBA and Ouendan 2.

Button Fading/Animations

Have an option in the skin.ini flie to make (animated) buttons keep their original opacity, and not fade when the cursor isn't placed on top of the buttons.

This would be for skip buttons for the EBO and Ouendan 2 skins; skip buttons could blink like in the original (two frames, one the button and the other none), and won't fade ingame.

No

YoshiKart wrote:

Option to move combo counter

Just put something in Options to switch the positioning of the combo counter. Pretty much useless, except for tablet PC peeps. Also, when the combo increases, the numbers always fade in from right to left, no matter what side the counter is on.

No

YoshiKart wrote:

About Missing a Slider End

Currently, in osu!, if you miss a slider's end (not repeat), it will not break the combo counter, nor will it add to the combo counter. In Ouendan/EBA, however, missing a slider end and getting a 100 or 50 will still add to the counter. Here's how it works...
If a slider has no ticks nor repeats, and the beginning of the slider was touched, but not the end, then the counter will raise by two. If a slider has ticks, and the whole slider is missed, then the missed slider end does not add to the counter. However, if a tick, repeat, or beginning is right before the end, and that is successfully cleared, the counter will count that tick/repeat/beginning AND the end, even though it is missed. Therefore, if the end of the slider is missed, it will only add to the counter if there was a tick/repeat/beginning before it that was touched successfully. In the original games, missing a slider end never meant not adding +1 to the combo counter. Therefore, you don't need 300's on all sliders in order to get a "PERFECT!" comment on the results.

This can't change now because it would mean a total score reset, pretty much. I'm willing to have a separate thread discussing this change if you feel strongly though.

YoshiKart wrote:

Confirmed in all three games.

Was it done on purpose, that in osu!, a missed slider end won't add or break the combo counter?
If it was on purpose, then I'll strike the idea.

If it wasn't, and peppy's planning on changing it, how will the ranked plays be recalculated? Will the system be fixed, then the replays will be run again on a nonlagging computer (to avoid score miscalcs) to recalculate to score, then resubmitted? Or will each replay be manually recalculated?

zzz

Edited OP with two more requests, and some stuff strikethoughed.

umm i have a suggestion/question arent the sliders suppose to be transparent you kno the line between the two beats,well i dont kno if its not possible to make it transparent or peppy forgot about that but yeah.....

Very true.



It's sort of a tube-like coloring; it's light in the middle and dark on the outer sides.

YoshiKart wrote:

Very true.

<3 yoshi~

The current sliders ARE actually transparent - look closely. That said, I like their current design and chose it after experimentation, including using higher transparency. Allowing every colour in the rainbow is another issue - as they dont all look good with transparency added, and with such a wide specstrum gradient as in ouendan. Therefore I don't want to change the current colouring.

Not a technical isue, just personal preference. Feel free to debate.

OP is now more colorful...

peppy wrote:

The whole animation is different on ouendan. Not sure I plan on changing this.

I checked a RSG video; even though it's not an "x" (don't know the name for it... translation plz?), it still does not fade in like the numbers.
And I also confirmed it on EBA and Ouendan 2.

So whatever "different whole animation" you're talking about, I probably missed it altogether.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

The lines are actually transparent. As I said, I quite like this look, but it seems you don't.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

peppy wrote:

The lines are actually transparent. As I said, I quite like this look, but it seems you don't.

well i don't like the lines because i don't see how that adds "transparency"

and would like to be able to see the picture/video/character behind the slider like you do on the oto2 and eba.

I don't remember notes shaking when the combo breaks, but if the background (not video; that's harsh) and the ki bar will shake, then I'll mark "Shaking Screen w/ combobreak" as done.

Adding my new ideas in...

YoshiKart wrote:

I checked a RSG video; even though it's not an "x" (don't know the name for it... translation plz?)

The kanji used after the numbers in Ouendan is 連 (ren, here "chain/combo").

Thanks a bunch! Adding in.

BTW, know the "score" kanji from the top screen?

Getting rid of notes shaking is ok, but the idea of the background/ki bar shaking still stands.

I'm not sure about the idea of the blue orbs. On the DS they work, but I feel that without the top screen they go to it would just be distracting. If it is implemented, it'd be nice if they could be toggled on and off.

YoshiKart wrote:

BTW, know the "score" kanji from the top screen?

Yeah, that's 得点 (tokuten).

Thanks again.

xerxes_oli wrote:

peppy wrote:

The lines are actually transparent. As I said, I quite like this look, but it seems you don't.

well i don't like the lines because i don't see how that adds "transparency"

and would like to be able to see the picture/video/character behind the slider like you do on the oto2 and eba.

There should be an option, "alternate slider rendering method." The entire slider would be rendered (in software) to a single texture which is placed in a semitransparent poly. The software rendering of the slider can be done gradually to achieve the "snaking slider" effect. This would also probably solve the NDS port's troubles with sliders eating memory.


Another "authentic" feature I have in mind would be a system for easier, less hackish, and more robust bloopy beeps (as in Over The Distance, Inspiration, Believe):
-Add the option to disable the default hit circle and slider noises, keeping just the whistle, etc.
-Add the skinning option to use different sounds for the slider ticks for Whistle, Finish, etc., and the slider slide for Finish.
-Add "Custom 1" and "Custom 2" hitsounds, which could only be used in a map's internal skin. These, too, could include hit, slide, and tick noises.

These custom hitnoises would also be very useful for stages such as EBA's Highway Star, where all the usual noises are used, plus some song-specific extras, to avoid needing an excessive number of timing sections (hackish, forces the map to use all custom hitnoises for consistency) to achieve the desired effect.

MetalMario201 wrote:

There should be an option, "alternate slider rendering method." The entire slider would be rendered (in software) to a single texture which is placed in a semitransparent poly. The software rendering of the slider can be done gradually to achieve the "snaking slider" effect. This would also probably solve the NDS port's troubles with sliders eating memory.

Making the whole slider texture would look crap because the border would also be transparent. Software rendering is slow and ugly. This also makes no logical sense. As I have already said - the current sliders can be made tarnsparent, but are not due to it making them look crap. I have added slight transparency in the test build and it looks almost not crap, so that will probably make it to the next public.

Also - textures use more memory than direct rendering, just to clear things up.

MetalMario201 wrote:

-Add the option to disable the default hit circle and slider noises, keeping just the whistle, etc.

Can be done already.

MetalMario201 wrote:

-Add the skinning option to use different sounds for the slider ticks for Whistle, Finish, etc., and the slider slide for Finish.

Eh, if someone actually asks me to use these in a beatmap i'll look at it.

MetalMario201 wrote:

-Add "Custom 1" and "Custom 2" hitsounds, which could only be used in a map's internal skin. These, too, could include hit, slide, and tick noises.

Planned but not yet done. Feel free to donate to help with the progress .

In the Ouendan games, the combo fire can increase to cover most of the screen, while in osu! it only reaches about 1/3. Can the height be increased?

Behonkiss wrote:

In the Ouendan games, the combo fire can increase to cover most of the screen, while in osu! it only reaches about 1/3. Can the height be increased?

Can be set in options.

No, I know about that, but the maximum amount of fire still doesn't take up most of the screen. Can the max size be increased?

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Knocked off one.

peppy, I get rid of the "New Requests" whenever you comment on it, so a one word answer like "No." would work nicely for each.

I've found, on emulators, that the games don't render sliders the way I expected. What they do is display a mesh of trapezoids.

peppy wrote:

MetalMario201 wrote:

-Add the option to disable the default hit circle and slider noises, keeping just the whistle, etc.

Can be done already.

I do mean on a per-note basis, you know. (Or am I just unable to track down where to change this?)

peppy wrote:

MetalMario201 wrote:

-Add the skinning option to use different sounds for the slider ticks for Whistle, Finish, etc., and the slider slide for Finish.

Eh, if someone actually asks me to use these in a beatmap i'll look at it.

It's actually necessary for the authentic levels with bleepy sliders. The bleeps would be assigned to, say, the Whistle's slidertick, leaving the regular slidertick using a jingle bell. Currently, timing sections must be used, sometimes very frequently.

On the topic of beeps, there's a problem with them when using Double Speed or Halftime mods--the beeps' speed is not adjusted! There should be an option (in the map) for "timescaled noises on non-1x playback."

Another idea I have in mind which would solve two problems: null notes. These would be invisible hit markers that you don't need to (or are able to) hit, nor would they add anything to your combo. They could be used to adjust the starting time of the countdown (back, not forwards) and to use combo colours out of sequence, since you'd be able to assign them the New Combo flag. I've observed that most authentic levels don't follow a perfect colour cycle rule. The same patterns usually appear in the same colours every time, which is currently hard to do and requires weird combo divisions.

I'll probably find myself donating sometime soon, anyway.

Edit: I found a missing feature in the new (but still great) slider noises feature. On Sekai wo Sore wa Ai to Yobunda Ze, Intense, at 0:59:145 (using ZZT The Fifth's timing), there's a slider that has a whistle on its start, no whistle on its rebound (can do), but no whistle when it ends at the same place it started, which I can't do. I can see this being a pickle.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Edit: I found a missing feature in the new (but still great) slider noises feature. On Sekai wo Sore wa Ai to Yobunda Ze, Intense, at 0:59:145 (using ZZT The Fifth's timing), there's a slider that has a whistle on its start, no whistle on its rebound (can do), but no whistle when it ends at the same place it started, which I can't do. I can see this being a pickle.

Use the timeline.

Okay, I've got one:

The combo burst in the games juts out fast and then retreats offscreen, and is solid the whole time. osu!'s combo burst comes out kind of slow and then just fades away. Can this be fixed?

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

To make xerxes happy, I found out that the sliders look more transparent and more similar to Ouendan/EBA when played in OpenGL renderer.

Is it me, or is the combo counter NOT sliding smoothly in and out of the screen during breaks? Was it like that in the past, or am I just forgetful? =/

YoshiKart wrote:

To make xerxes happy, I found out that the sliders look more transparent and more similar to Ouendan/EBA when played in OpenGL renderer.

Is it me, or is the combo counter NOT sliding smoothly in and out of the screen during breaks? Was it like that in the past, or am I just forgetful? =/

im sooo happy with the opengl sliders they are great!! only if directx had them...and i wouldnt count as done for that reason~

It would be great to add models support for BG, after playing EBA i miss agents so much

Dancers are coming soon. I think Loginer's still working on the model.

MOAR HITNOISES!! >=[ Clap was great, so let's use the positive energy and keep going! I've heard some authentic maps use 6+ hitnoises, so the target should be in that range. Variable sliderticks, too. Ai - Believe uses no fewer than four different slidertick noises.

Transparent sliders, yadda, yadda. Several rendering methods come to mind.

Also, in OTO/EBA, a spinner belongs to the combo preceeding it. Play Jumping Jack Flash or another level with lots of spinners. The last regular note of the combo is not a(n) (Elite) Beat, but a regular 100/300/etc. The spinner then counts as the appropriate bonus. This, of course, requires score deletion (just like the slider end not counting towards the combo if missed), so save it for whenever you planned to reset all the scores.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Also, in OTO/EBA, a spinner belongs to the combo preceeding it. Play Jumping Jack Flash or another level with lots of spinners. The last regular note of the combo is not a(n) (Elite) Beat, but a regular 100/300/etc. The spinner then counts as the appropriate bonus. This, of course, requires score deletion (just like the slider end not counting towards the combo if missed), so save it for whenever you planned to reset all the scores.

Incorrect - has been discussed before and it is not consistent throughout all levels. We decided to handle it as it is. This is osu!, not ouenda/eba (and this thread is getting really tired and old)

1.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Also, in OTO/EBA, a spinner belongs to the combo preceeding it. Play Jumping Jack Flash or another level with lots of spinners. The last regular note of the combo is not a(n) (Elite) Beat, but a regular 100/300/etc. The spinner then counts as the appropriate bonus. This, of course, requires score deletion (just like the slider end not counting towards the combo if missed), so save it for whenever you planned to reset all the scores.

Elite Beats don't help your score at all. It only helps your HP bar. Check the FAQ on scoring. So, it won't need a score reset.

2. I'm getting rid of all the new stuff. I think I'll introduce each one at a time, slowly, and not so annoying.