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Suggestion on SV vs BPM and HP bar size

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Equivalent_old
210 posts
Joined October 2010
Topic Starter
Equivalent_old
It quite disappointing to see where some mappers done slider velocity that doesn't fit with the bpm and the difficulty implied to it. For example song with BPM below 90, the hardest difficuty end up forced by inherited time 1.5x just to make it faster/harder. And the reverse where BPM is higher than 120, some stay with the default setup and end up forcing 0.75x for the whole map just to make it slower.

Much more disappointing me where the mapper can be considered experienced enough and still having those setup error. It quite a big slap in the face/ or ego feel challenged much when I that out as I am just a new mapper with null ranked map.

Not to say the setup is wrong, but this can be avoided by choosing the right SV for the right BPM, it really a common sense. Just make sure it fit enough with the difficulty aimed for.

One more I would like to pint out is HP bar size, I would suggest making this skin element to the exact as the default one. I noticed one big hp bar that quite low enough, "Lucky Star" skin to be precise. Using default skin the notes that below the hp bar is fine, but when it come to the custom skin, the note touch the HP bar and worse the slider is just like right in the middle of the hp bar.

I am suggesting both SV vs BPM and HP size bar to be one of the input in the next guide/ rules.

That all I can think off for now, I will add if anything bother me/ points

And oh, sorry if my engrish is not perfect. English is ESL for me
blissfulyoshi
osu! Alumni
4,755 posts
Joined July 2008
blissfulyoshi
I can identify with some of your frustration, but slider velocity vs BPM has very subjective answers. For myself, I love fast SV, so my slow maps have a fairly high SV than what most ppl are expecting. I know there are those that love this, but also those who hate it. Generalizing this, there will always be ppl that hate/like the SV you have chosen. Not much is going to change there. As a result, having some form of standard is not going to happen any day soon.

As for hp bar size, that is the for the skinner to decide. If you don't like the size, you can always change the hp bar yourself or get one from another skin. On another note, I doubt hp bars will be scalable the way you want it to be because the hp bar is a rectangle, so scaling it will shrink both dimensions creating a strange looking play field (oh well this is a question for a person more well versed in skinning). If you want more opinions on this, I suggest making a feature request (did not check if one is denied already or in the works).
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
All maps are modded with either default skin or the map's custom skin, if a skin is covering the notes for you because it's larger than the default skin, and it's not the map's skin, then you must fix the skin on your own to fit your playstyle better
Equivalent_old
210 posts
Joined October 2010
Topic Starter
Equivalent_old
Sorry to make you misundertood Bliss, maybe my wording is wrong there.

Maybe reword this guidelines:

When including a slider velocity change, there should be a discernible change in the map's tempo. A spacing change, a short break in the map, or a slider containing at least one tick will help show the transition between them.
What I meant is when someone using SV that doesnt please him/her with the speed he originally wanted from the SV, s/he force using inehrtied time for the whole map/diff just to make it fit in the right speed for him/her.

For example:

BPM: 120, SV 1.4, diff: Hard where here s/he felt 1.4 SV is way too slow for a hard, than decided to use 1.5x from the beginning of notes till end of it. As in the guidelines there; there must be changes in map tempo for it to be used.

And seriously, I'll point out if I dont like the SV for the diff in mapset, even if the mapper like it or not. But for me, high SV in such easier diff wont be a good choice.

Bout HP bar, I'm suggesting on general skinning that is. Having a bigger Hp bar while the other is small may result in notes touch the hp bar which is not even disturbing the smaller size hp bar.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
IMO songs aren't fun if the actual slide speed isn't reasonably fast. Slow BPMs must therefore have a large SV. Fast BPMs must have a small SV.
What I meant is when someone using SV that doesnt please him/her with the speed he originally wanted from the SV, s/he force using inehrtied time for the whole map/diff just to make it fit in the right speed for him/her.
Slider velocity shouldn't be constant for an entire mapset. It's silly to use an inherited time for the whole map. Just multiply the SV for that map by 1.5, unless the BPM is like 68 and slider velocity needs to be 4.5 or something.

I use my own custom skin when modding, but the hitcircles are the same size. The hp bar is very large (but mostly transparent). This allows me to find potential problems with notes being too high.

In general though, if you keep the notes inside the grid, you will never have a problem. Sticking a note on *,0 or *,384 is stupid and should never happen. If your beat placement can't fit on a 16:10 background, you shouldn't be putting a note there.
Equivalent_old
210 posts
Joined October 2010
Topic Starter
Equivalent_old

ziin wrote:

IMO songs aren't fun if the actual slide speed isn't reasonably fast. Slow BPMs must therefore have a large SV. Fast BPMs must have a small SV.
What I meant is when someone using SV that doesnt please him/her with the speed he originally wanted from the SV, s/he force using inehrtied time for the whole map/diff just to make it fit in the right speed for him/her.
Slider velocity shouldn't be constant for an entire mapset. It's silly to use an inherited time for the whole map. Just multiply the SV for that map by 1.5, unless the BPM is like 68 and slider velocity needs to be 4.5 or something.
Atm the highest SV can reach 3.6 and imo even 60bpm song can use it wisely to make hard diff. And sadly but true,some use 1.5x as default SV and when tempo changes normal (1.0x) used. Doesn't it easier to make the SV a bit higher in this case than troubling yourself making 1.5x the whole map?
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

Equivalent wrote:

Atm the highest SV can reach 3.6 and imo even 60bpm song can use it wisely to make hard diff. And sadly but true,some use 1.5x as default SV and when tempo changes normal (1.0x) used. Doesn't it easier to make the SV a bit higher in this case than troubling yourself making 1.5x the whole map?
A 3.6 SV 60 BPM song is pretty fast, but I assume you're talking about a 1.4 SV song with 1.5x timing section, making 2.1 SV. You are correct: this is bad practice. However, it does not matter in the long run and you shouldn't be complaining about it. This is even less significant than deleting empty osb files.

A 60 BPM song with 4.5 SV is doing it wrong. It clearly should be a 120 BPM song.

Also, tempo almost always indicates a bpm change. It's hard to change the mood of a song without changing the bpm.
Equivalent_old
210 posts
Joined October 2010
Topic Starter
Equivalent_old

ziin wrote:

Equivalent wrote:

Atm the highest SV can reach 3.6 and imo even 60bpm song can use it wisely to make hard diff. And sadly but true,some use 1.5x as default SV and when tempo changes normal (1.0x) used. Doesn't it easier to make the SV a bit higher in this case than troubling yourself making 1.5x the whole map?
A 3.6 SV 60 BPM song is pretty fast, but I assume you're talking about a 1.4 SV song with 1.5x timing section, making 2.1 SV. You are correct: this is bad practice. However, it does not matter in the long run and you shouldn't be complaining about it. This is even less significant than deleting empty osb files.

A 60 BPM song with 4.5 SV is doing it wrong. It clearly should be a 120 BPM song.

Also, tempo almost always indicates a bpm change. It's hard to change the mood of a song without changing the bpm.
lol, I state SV 3.6 doesn't mean using 3.6 on 60 >.> What I mean is currently the SV can go up to 3.6x
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Some people may use the 2.0x > 0.5x trick to make really slow sliders, and that's alright since that's the workaround that's allowed considering you wont be able to use speed ups if you do that.
Equivalent_old
210 posts
Joined October 2010
Topic Starter
Equivalent_old

Sakura Hana wrote:

Some people may use the 2.0x > 0.5x trick to make really slow sliders, and that's alright since that's the workaround that's allowed considering you wont be able to use speed ups if you do that.
Not sure what you mean, but to mention inherited time like 0.5 will make the HP go down like twice. Imagine making it the whole diff form start till end? It will not become easier, but will be alot harder. I'm not observant enough on 1.5 slider tthough, either it have the same 0.5x hp drain got or the reverse
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

Equivalent wrote:

[Not sure what you mean, but to mention inherited time like 0.5 will make the HP go down like twice.
No it doesn't. Try it and see!
Since the base slider speed maxes at 3.6, sometimes mappers need more, and it's okay to use inheriting sections to accomplish this.
Sometimes, the musically correct BPM of a song is very slow, and resorting to doubling it just to make sliders go fast is bad practice.
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