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Star system change [Added]

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30
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +1
Sir Minelli
524 posts
Joined September 2008
Topic Starter
Sir Minelli
Hello everyone,

(I hope this post is not a duplicate, I tried searching for one but with no results.)

After reading this post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16839&st=0&sk=t&sd=a I came to this conclusion:

I suggest removing the normal stars and focusing only on kudosu stars.

Replace the normal star with something else... such as a "Like"
The "Like" should not give any priority to the map.
Most of the time, players will shoot a normal star just because they liked the map, and this shouldn't give the map any ranking priority.

If anyone wishes to shoot a star, then it should be a kudosu star, and he will need to mod in order to give one.

This way at least those who have kudosu, And by this I mean those who helped others with modding, will give stars to those maps who really deserve it. Also, the mappers and those who wish to increase other maps priorities, will need to mod. And doing this, helps the community.

Instead of threatening the normal stars giveaway with a bannable offense, threaten the "Kudosu giveaway". This way we avoid this.
Kudosu giveaway is the only downside I can see with this change. (Not that it never happened)

I don't know what you guys think about this. I personally think it's something worth considering.

Thanks.

EDIT: I was told by Larto that peppy and others were working on a new star system some time ago. Well, if this is correct, then good.
Last edited by Sir Minelli , edited 1 time in total.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
the problem is in the definition of what star priority means

if you treat it as a popularity contest, then it's serving its purpose: the "most popular maps" (that is to say, the maps with the largest community backing them up) will accrue the highest star priority. The problem is, a high Star Priority does not indicate a good map, or one even eligible for ranking. This, if followed, decreases the efficiency of ranking maps

There've been a few ideas tossed around and a few systems in development, but we need to determine the goal before we can iron out the solution.

Yet I agree with you, I think Star Priority on beatmaps is entirely worthless right now.
Sir Minelli
524 posts
Joined September 2008
Topic Starter
Sir Minelli

awp wrote:

The problem is, a high Star Priority does not indicate a good map, or one even eligible for ranking.

Yet I agree with you, I think Star Priority on beatmaps is entirely worthless right now.
Indeed, that is why in my opinion, leaving only the kudosu stars to be given, might indicate (at least some more) that the map si good.

After all, those who give the kudosu, know more of mapping / modding, than those who shoot stars just because they liked the map.

We already have the user rating to define how much they liked the map once ranked.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
My opinion for a suggestion to fix this still hasn't changed from what i posted at: viewtopic.php?p=744319#p744319 in either case i don't think the SP system isn't doing is job either and needs to be fixed, the problem with your idea is that all stars will be kudosu stars, giving +2 priority to the map and costing a whole 3 kudosu to give, in my idea, there's still less priority stars that cost less kudosu, and after a certain ammount of total kudosu earned you should know enough about modding already to know if a map deserves a star or not.

However that idea is still in the works, people are welcome to help me think of things to polish the idea and everything, and i can't really think of something else that needs to be added to it, but again, i think making people pay 3 kudosu to star a map is a bit too much, 2 kudosu would be ok, and they should still have the option of giving the pink star for 3 kudosu.
Sir Minelli
524 posts
Joined September 2008
Topic Starter
Sir Minelli

Sakura Hana wrote:

The problem with your idea is that all stars will be kudosu stars, giving +2 priority to the map and costing a whole 3 kudosu to give.
I believe that this is not a problem if you take in consideration that the number of mods will most likely increase.

Nevertheless, if normal stars are removed, maybe the penalty of the kudosu star could be lowered to "2" kudosu per star.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Sir Minelli wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

The problem with your idea is that all stars will be kudosu stars, giving +2 priority to the map and costing a whole 3 kudosu to give.
I believe that this is not a problem if you take in consideration that the number of mods will most likely increase.

Nevertheless, if normal stars are removed, maybe the penalty of the kudosu star could be lowered to "2" kudosu per star.
In my idea all stars are kudosu too are they not? (at least until a certain ammount of kudosu) the difference is that there are 2 types of kudosu stars, the blue stars (which you normally click on the checkbox) would need to change in "Give a star to this map (costs 2 kudosu)" or something like that, and the regular pink stars (which would also be limited to 1 per user)
Sir Minelli
524 posts
Joined September 2008
Topic Starter
Sir Minelli
Oh well, at least I'm guessing you support this.

I don't mind if it's your idea or mine that gets implemented, I just hope something does though.

Both are good ideas.
senaya
osu! Alumni
5,798 posts
Joined March 2010
senaya
uhh.. random mods will just stop giving out their stars. YEAH, lets open a star4star thread right away..
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

senaya wrote:

uhh.. random mods will just stop giving out their stars. YEAH, lets open a star4star thread right away..
Users could still star their own maps for priority. Also, star abuse (like star4star) could possibly be punishable.
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller
You can't always have someone with kudosu look at your map.

Lots of maps from expirienced mappers need close to none modding from the start too.

Et cetera. You don't have to be a genius to see that this system isn't much fair either.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

senaya wrote:

uhh.. random mods will just stop giving out their stars
carelessly, anyway. That's the idea behind it, I think. Star things you think are good/that you actually want to see get bumped up
Ayeen_old
316 posts
Joined October 2010
Ayeen_old

Sir Minelli wrote:

Hello everyone,

(I hope this post is not a duplicate, I tried searching for one but with no results.)

After reading this post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16839&st=0&sk=t&sd=a I came to this conclusion:

I suggest removing the normal stars and focusing only on kudosu stars.

Replace the normal star with something else... such as a "Like" i support this. For now it more to popularity based on song/the mapper popularity. Star shouldn't be used to pressure BAT/MAT to look at the map (as in the current situation)
The "Like" should not give any priority to the map.
Most of the time, players will shoot a normal star just because they liked the map, and this shouldn't give the map any ranking priority. True, and some because of the mapper is friend, his/her idol mapper, the song itself loved by him/her

If anyone wishes to shoot a star, then it should be a kudosu star, and he will need to mod in order to give one.The new modder will having an issue with this as they not experienced enough to mod/ knowing what is wrong and what not. Not to mention mostly will be nazi mod

This way at least those who have kudosu, And by this I mean those who helped others with modding, will give stars to those maps who really deserve it. Also, the mappers and those who wish to increase other maps priorities, will need to mod. And doing this, helps the community.Seeing the trend now, not much people want to mod an experienced mapper's map as they know they hardly find any error in it, this goes especially to BAT/MAT who have like 2 years+ experienced in mapping.And the end, those MAT/BAT itself mod the map~

Instead of threatening the normal stars giveaway with a bannable offense, threaten the "Kudosu giveaway". This way we avoid this.
Kudosu giveaway is the only downside I can see with this change. (Not that it never happened)Idk, but I feel this will give much negative impact than positive one. Just my intuition, dont bother ask any details

I don't know what you guys think about this. I personally think it's something worth considering.

Thanks.

EDIT: I was told by Larto that peppy and others were working on a new star system some time ago. Well, if this is correct, then good.
Normal star should be changed to like, but not giving the priority. I support this
Miu Matsuoka
662 posts
Joined May 2008
Miu Matsuoka
+1 Support~
According to my own experience, my map has 111 star priority, and at least 20 people modded my map.
Unfortunately, it never helps me to get MATs nor BATs to come for a mod.
But looking into other beatmaps following mine, many of the maps with 100- SP had at least some BAT posts, or even gold stars from them... That simply shows that people seldom mod maps according to the star priority.
Let's focus on the bubbled maps, there are many of them which had under 50 SP and had BAT posts in a month! Looking at the creators, 'val0108', 'Louis Cyphre' and famous mappers like these. (And also mappers with several maps ranked)
Nowadays, the BATs and MATs never give novice mappers a chance to have their maps modded, nor bubbled, nor ranked... (Except some of the nice ones I know) That's just disappointing to so many people.
In my opinion, some (or maybe one?) BAT(s) may just mod the maps which are made by their mates, bubble ridiculous maps, rank crazy maps, and rage people who are against those crappy maps...
What is the meaning of the star system? Why should it still be here if it helps nothing?

Overall, I'm totally disappointed of the current ranking system (which includes the star, the team and everything related).
Sir Minelli
524 posts
Joined September 2008
Topic Starter
Sir Minelli

TKiller wrote:

You can't always have someone with kudosu look at your map.
The you shoot the kudosu start yourself.

As I previously said:

Sir Minelli wrote:

If anyone wishes to shoot a star, then it should be a kudosu star, and he will need to mod in order to give one.

Also, the mappers and those who wish to increase other maps priorities, will need to mod.

Derekku wrote:

Users could still star their own maps for priority.
This.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
NatsumeRin
i'd like to see it like:
blue star= 0.5 kuds = 1 priority
pink star= 2kuds = 2 priority (unlimitted)

the main idea is still "one need to mod to be available to star", but 1kud just for 1star is kinda harsh, sometimes i see a map with no main problems and i'd like to star that, without spend 1 hour or so to find some little thing. so i guess 0.5 is better.
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller
And forcing to mod those who don't like it/aren't good at it isn't that much of a marvellous idea either. Which won't work anyway and modding and ranking procedures will remain as they are, based more on personal communications rather than on numbers.

I don't mean that current system is ideal, but at least it still somehow works from time to time and your suggestion isn't a cure.
senaya
osu! Alumni
5,798 posts
Joined March 2010
senaya

Sir Minelli wrote:

The you shoot the kudosu start yourself.
and what is the difference from blue stars? your map won't get better if you feed it even 100 kudosu stars yourself.
you need it to be modded properly.

maybe something like this:
you only get blue star if you kudosu a mod post. so each blue star = number of actual mod posts.
and pink stars (kudosu) mean nothing imo =\
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller

senaya wrote:

Sir Minelli wrote:

The you shoot the kudosu start yourself.
and what is the difference from blue stars? your map won't get better if you feed it even 100 kudosu stars yourself.
you need it to be modded properly.

maybe something like this:
you only get blue star if you kudosu a mod post. so each blue star = number of actual mod posts.
and pink stars (kudosu) mean nothing imo =\
Now that's plain silly since as I've already stated lots of expirienced mappers need almost none mods for their new submissions.
senaya
osu! Alumni
5,798 posts
Joined March 2010
senaya
k, but feeding 9000+ kudosu stars for a map that has no mod posts is a dumb idea too =\
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

senaya wrote:

k, but feeding 9000+ kudosu stars for a map that has no mod posts is a dumb idea too =\
Well in my proposal each user was limited to 1 pink star too
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
Every system will have it's flaws, so I will propose an addition to any of these systems.
The way they work currently assumes that someone who will star a map will do it occasionally, but what if you have 1 person starring every single map from certain creators just because he's a fan? (I have nothing against fans though, so don't take this post as that kind of discussion)
What if you have many people doing that? This also assumes that they are doing it of their free will, however what if they're asked to star something and they do it? That's pretty common nowadays, and while officially it's bannable, it can be done through chats so that noone even knew they were asked to. They won't tell anyone and they don't really need to, that's why I said it's a flaw.
This is all hypothetical ofcourse.

So what I propose is some kind of a daily/weekly/monthly limit a person can shoot stars at a map. This may increase if he is active in the mapping community, so this means that if the person does modding of some kind, that limit may increase. (Daily limit may not be as useful, but I just wrote it to give some sort of a timeframe suggestion, people can take this as they want)

Just as I wrote in the first sentence, every system will have a flaw, and you can't please everyone, so be prepared that for any system that's suggested will get exploited as much as it can.

The only real downside I see atm is the amount of MAT and BAT people. Due to whatever reasons, be it personal or official, doesn't matter, some may not be able to mod maps. With having literally thousands of maps ready to mod, and several hundreds are ready to be checked by a MAT or a BAT, having this few of these people really doesn't help in any system. Others just have a massive queue and I bet it gets depressing sometimes when you look at the number of maps.

I am just stating the obvious here and apologies if you take it as a hostile action, however that's how I see it. I also have some other opinions I could voice, but I chose not to because they are not relevant to this discussion.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
This sounds pretty good. 1+
Last edited by theowest , edited 2 times in total.
James2250
osu! Alumni
4,059 posts
Joined July 2008
James2250

Sir Minelli wrote:

I suggest removing the normal stars and focusing only on kudosu stars.
It looks like this is going to basically happen.

I doubt the old user stars are going to be replaced by "Like" or anything similar to that though as it just doesn't seem constructive enough. Hopefully by placing more importance on kudosu stars for maps it will improve the quality of posts overall and place a greater importance on a users kudosu count, as well as encouraging more modding activity.

I would resolve this thread but a few more changes with the kudosu/star system might be made until this new system is fully implemented, so will see how it goes first~
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
Well this is bad.

Because I'm a kudosu! hoarder.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Stars currently just work to see what maps people WANTS to see ranked, not to see good maps. If you want to search for good WIP/Pending maps, sadly you have to search by mapper's name.

IMO MATs/BATs stars should be be worth more than a single star or something, of course assuming they gonna star good maps and I mean GOOD MAPS not good songs or "good maps".
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Do we really have to split the discussion into 2 topics?
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
a Flag is needed. ( Simply binary variable, the problem is the HIGH number of maps )
it become signed after you fullplay all maps diff ( EVEN WITH AUTO ) or you edit it for... uhm... 5 minutes.

a simple star removing is just as shitty as you can know.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

a Flag is needed. ( Simply binary variable, the problem is the HIGH number of maps )
it become signed after you fullplay all maps diff ( EVEN WITH AUTO ) or you edit it for... uhm... 5 minutes.
How would this stop modders from starring everything they mod?

One of the two big problems was that us modders starred pretty much every time we posted, even if the map was complete and utter crap. The more unrankable a map is, the more mods it'll need to become rankable. Therefore, the more unrankable a map was, the more SP it would gain before being rankable because just about every mod was paired with a "STAR!". So, SP counts of 40+ often indicated that a map wasn't exactly mapped well to begin with (not always, mind you, but this happened often enough to be an issue).

Random stars were often also a problem, yes. However both were issues that had to be addressed before we moved on to another ranking system; no use switching to another ranking system if it contains the major flaws of the last system.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
How would this stop modders from starring everything they mod?
yet the problem is another. if a modder mod a map, he'll probably star it because he quitely liked it. And not because he din't liked that map, the problem is actually people who star without playing the map.

One of the two big problems was that us modders starred pretty much every time we posted, even if the map was complete and utter crap.
everyone got is "methods", someone gave a star as an encouragement, someother give it because they liked it, someothers for another motif.

The more unrankable a map is, the more mods it'll need to become rankable. Therefore, the more unrankable a map was, the more SP it would gain before being rankable because just about every mod was paired with a "STAR!". So, SP counts of 40+ often indicated that a map wasn't exactly mapped well to begin with (not always, mind you, but this happened often enough to be an issue).
well, random stars or encouragements... i say there are at least 35 SPs in those 40s example Stars that are actually random stars

Random stars were often also a problem, yes. However both were issues that had to be addressed before we moved on to another ranking system; no use switching to another ranking system if it contains the major flaws of the last system.
well, like this it contains even more flaws. You can't star map you like, you can't kds star map you love. You should conserve Kudosu even better than before.
Therefore this utterly idiotic change of directly removing Stars is like deleting all Pending and WIP maps because some of them are unrankable.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
Marking this as "Added" since the main intention of the request has been implemented. Also, the discussion doesn't seem to be going anywhere (and I don't see why there's two threads of discussion), so I'm locking this.
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