# Memme - Avalanche

Agree with snapping but the rest doesn't seem valid to me. I will let Kalindraz explain his position first.
Again; like i said, i'm not even trying to apply suggestions - I made that post long prior to the DQ. I don't expect nor particurally care if any points are applied, but they are all valid if you ask me - there is no logical reason to force unfitting symmetrical patterns if you can create fitting symmetrical patterns.
sorry for long late oo

#### Shiirn wrote:

While I'm here, can I offer some advice? sure.

This is not an attempt at stopping this map at all; as it sits right now it is perfectly rankable and clean enough to consider a "good" map, but...

I noticed that a lot of this map utilizes symmetrical patterning, which I think is really cool, but there are several points where you decide to use a specific form of symmetrical pattern at the detriment of following the musical notes, which I feel rather defeats the purpose of making such a pattern-based map - if the patterns are not following the music, you are not making a map, just a collection of "lol this is cool right?" patterns that don't necessarily follow the music when you could easily make symmetrical patterns that do follow the music, you just need to be better.

For more specific examples, here's a few:
1. 00:12:493 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - Interesting juxtaposition, but the final 1/2 is still part of the little background trawl and would melodically fit better as a 1/4 slider. i don't get it, you can explain better, your words sounds a bit confusing to me =/
2. 00:33:750 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - No real need to NC spam this, the pairs aren't that spaced apart and the musical roll is still just an 8-note set, not four 2s.
well, this is your subjective view, right? I mean, doesn't need more/less spacing to nc that pattern, that pairs of 2 to 2(up and down and other forms) justify what I accurately hear, distinct sounds every 2 notes. NCing are appropriate to have a separation between patterns. In this sense, I think that the NCing here works good, have a lot of separation in patterns because of the instrumentation shifts(focusing on violin and the "noise/distorted sound"). i think that answer can be applied to 01:52:950 (1,2,1,2) - and 01:51:235 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1)
3. 00:45:578 (2,3,1,2,1,2) - When you follow the staticy trill under 00:45:578 (2,3,1) - but then ignore it entirely for the sake of symmetry with 00:46:093 (1,2) - , this is a blatant statement of "fuck the music, you're playing MY map", which i feel is not what a mapper should generally strive for. fixed, my bad..
4. 00:51:578 (1,2,1) - The triple underneath 2 is so powerful and you follow it pretty much every time, but here your precious symmetry fucks it over.
5. 00:52:264 (1,2,1,2,3) - This pattern would be amazing if it was something more like THIS, and could even more easily maintain a symmetrical pattern the same way you're doing now, but as it sits it's largely ignoring the music! a big ew to me. reformed, fixed..
6. 01:04:607 (1) - Notes like this are 1/6, not 1/8. I'm not sure how the ranking criteria treats these at the moment, but technically the snapping is wrong on a lot of these. I'll leave it up to someone else to actually decide on this. fixed.
7. 01:06:493 (2,1,2,3) - see symmetry strikes again - the first 2 would nominally be a triple to follow the backbeat, but you again ignore it for the sake of a symmetrical pattern that could easily be modified to still fit the music and be symmetrical.
8. 01:25:178 (1,2,3) - Again, 2 is symmetrical despite the potential for triples to actually follow the music.
9. 01:32:893 (2,1) - Again, 2 is symmetrical despite the potential for triples to actually follow the music.
10. 01:33:407 (1,2,1,2,3) - same as the last time. fixed.
11. 01:40:264 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Normally you have a 1/4 slider starting this off-beat start rolls off, but here it's a full stream? This goes for MOST of the streams in the last chorus... another error mine, fixed..
12. 01:51:235 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - this is just all fucked up - the 1/4 2 should be a triple, the split double stream makes no sense, does not fit the map, and is a massive, worthless difficulty spike. i don't want break this pattern (01:51:578 (1,2,1,2) - ) like all did on this section (01:48:835 (1,2,1,2) - ,01:50:207 (1,2,1,2) - to placing a triplet, because that i place the 1/4 slider and not 3/4 like the previous(01:48:493 (1) - , 01:49:864 (1) - ).
13. 01:52:950 (1,2,1,2) - these are plain 4 rolls please stop trying to put awkwardly shoved in "inspired by hanzer but now is used so commonly incorrectly and badly that the incorrect and bad execution has become the normal definition" techniques. can u affirm this sentence? well i study about pattern multiple times and i seeing multiple maps with the same pattern(i'm not trying to justify other maps into my, it's just to have a concrete base), that pattern its work good because the low bpm(175) give such time to reading without problems(unfortunately, the map was qualified for 10 hours and at that time only had 1 fc, but I believe that if it was for a longer duration would have many others fc present)
14. 01:56:721 (1) - nitpicky but imo this is more of a circle sound than a slider sound :shrug: well, you right but, i hearing an intense sound on that point, i leaving the circle(single note) sound to inferior diffs like hard/normal/easy.

about "Again, 2 is symmetrical despite the potential for triples to actually follow the music." i said again, i don't placed the triplets because my focus it is on violin and symmetry i made 2 1/4 to make one mirrored to the other and the 1/4 can support the triplets beats.
Thank you for looking at my map. I don't have problems to fixed things and etc..
but you must imagine how hard it should be for any mapper who does something different from the comun (incomum) one having something ranked (not wanting to present any kind of drama)
I always try to avoid the fewest possible errors oo

well, I just wish you did not use offensive words (or make sarcastic/ironic comments)
i know u are good modder but your use of offensive words turn you into a bad person/modder =/

well, sorry for any english mistake
@Kurai can i imagine, You can't requalify because I did the shiirn's changes. unfortunately =/
@Namki and @Garden sorry for that mistakes if both like give another chance I would be grateful
well thats its
My language is designed to intone exasperation because these kinds of things should be noted by any modder worth their BN title, since these are often things that separate good maps from great maps or great maps from amazing maps, and thinking about these options and deciding which best fits your vision is your job as a mapper.

It is theoretically the job ofmodders to give you options tot hink about, not simply correct obvious errors. Most modding right now i feel is way too afraid to say anything that could be argued with. This atmoaphere of non-combativeness simply hurts creqtivity and innovation.

I apologize if you feel that my mod was insulting to the mapper. It was intended to point out the lacklustre quality of the mods you got to help your chosen symmetrical style flourish.
"01:40:264 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Normally you have a 1/4 slider starting this off-beat start rolls off, but here it's a full stream? This goes for MOST of the streams in the last chorus... " Thanks for pointing this out shiirn i forgot to mention it when i saw it bubbled.

Regarding the sliders that could be made in a triple consider it once again. Usually people just defend it but haven't really tried the suggestion, so my suggestion is to experiment a little bit more to see if it will be possible to make to your liking because personally the drums are too loud and would offer a nice variation in gameplay to where the triple is called for. Like shiirn I'm not insisting to make the change, I'm just insisting to try it and experiment a little bit more with that you may end up liking it more in the end.

#### MaridiuS wrote:

Regarding the sliders that could be made in a triple consider it once again.
I believe it has a lot of visual impact shrouded in these changes and symmetry remains the focus around the difficulties, and as stated;
1/4 kick sliders can support triplets (not so present in music) I can enhance their visibility (by adding a hitsound and/or increasing the volume)

#### Kalindraz wrote:

1/4 kick sliders can support triplets
Yes, if you've consistently represented that particular form of triple with a 1/4 slider in the past, and continue to do so in the future, without a good thematic reason to do so.

You already consistently represented those triples as three circles before that pattern, and use three circles after it as well.

There is no non-bullshit reason to force that pattern to use two 1/4 sliders for such a powerful triple that you have always previously and always done after.

Except, apparently, "Because I want to use a perfectly symmetrical pattern here, not one designed around being symmetrical with 2 circles instead of a 1/4 slider".

It took me less than a minute to come up with a replacement example for 01:32:721 (1,2) - . This is obviously not the potentially best one, as there are many you can consider, but it took less than a minute to come up with a way to potentially have a symmetrical pattern that follows the music.

some stuffs

00:13:521 (1) - instead of tilting the slider, why don't just create a fake stack?

00:13:693 (2) - no whistle as no violin, use drum whistle if u wanna follow the roll

00:34:435 (1) - if the reason you did 1/8 here is because the wub then don't because then you need to follow it to 00:34:778 - which at that time you're following violin

00:36:835 (3) - ctrl+g would give a better impression of looping movement as that's what you did at 00:37:350 (2,3) - , there's no point to make it different movement

01:06:664 (1) - Following the previous pattern 01:05:978 (1,2,1,2) - , this should have ctrl+g

01:02:893 (1,2) - following the fm, it should start at 01:02:807 instead. Also, I thought you said symmetry and stuff so 2 is better at https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10184955 (if you persist on keeping it at least blanket 01:02:550 (1) - 's head properly

00:41:293 (1,2) - you don't use 1/8 hold nor 1/4 spam?

01:51:235 (1,2) - funny how you feel concerned about the kick here when you don't during the rest of this part, resulting this two sliders the only different thing among 01:48:493 (1) - 01:49:864 (1) - 01:52:607 (1) - 01:53:978 (1) -

01:57:064 (1) - optional but since you did kiai burst here and there, giving one here won't hurt.

please don't bash me I have 26 children

add: 00:30:493 (2) - fix stack w

#### Saturnalize wrote:

some stuffs hey ya!

00:13:521 (1) - instead of tilting the slider, why don't just create a fake stack? hmm fixed? i guess u mean stack them right

00:13:693 (2) - no whistle as no violin, use drum whistle if u wanna follow the roll set drum whistle

00:34:435 (1) - if the reason you did 1/8 here is because the wub then don't because then you need to follow it to 00:34:778 - which at that time you're following violin well, i can hear 1/8 there, try listen on 25% or 50%

00:36:835 (3) - ctrl+g would give a better impression of looping movement as that's what you did at 00:37:350 (2,3) - , there's no point to make it different movement ye ye!

01:06:664 (1) - Following the previous pattern 01:05:978 (1,2,1,2) - , this should have ctrl+g reformed after shiirn's mod

01:02:893 (1,2) - following the fm, it should start at 01:02:807 instead. Also, I thought you said symmetry and stuff so 2 is better at https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10184955 (if you persist on keeping it at least blanket 01:02:550 (1) - 's head properly sure!

00:41:293 (1,2) - you don't use 1/8 hold nor 1/4 spam? oh , right!

01:51:235 (1,2) - funny how you feel concerned about the kick here when you don't during the rest of this part, resulting this two sliders the only different thing among 01:48:493 (1) - 01:49:864 (1) - 01:52:607 (1) - 01:53:978 (1) - indeed, i understand after long talk with shiirn, reformed!

01:57:064 (1) - optional but since you did kiai burst here and there, giving one here won't hurt. done, also setup on harmonical, extra and insane diff

please don't bash me I have 26 children i'm gay

add: 00:30:493 (2) - fix stack w okay!
well thanks for the mod, i not a devil pls

#### Shiirn wrote:

Yes, if you've consistently represented that particular form of triple with a 1/4 slider in the past, and continue to do so in the future, without a good thematic reason to do so.

You already consistently represented those triples as three circles before that pattern, and use three circles after it as well.

There is no non-bullshit reason to force that pattern to use two 1/4 sliders for such a powerful triple that you have always previously and always done after.

Except, apparently, "Because I want to use a perfectly symmetrical pattern here, not one designed around being symmetrical with 2 circles instead of a 1/4 slider".

It took me less than a minute to come up with a replacement example for 01:32:721 (1,2) - . This is obviously not the potentially best one, as there are many you can consider, but it took less than a minute to come up with a way to potentially have a symmetrical pattern that follows the music.

After this i fixed some things to capture that god triplets and other stuff, sorry for anything i don't get it right lol
Fixed snapping in Extra and Insane. Good to go!
we made some changes in extra/top diff for playabiility
01:30:664 (1,2,3,4) - 01:32:035 (1,2,3,4) - please nooo, they just cause unreasonable reading problems, this kind of reading patterns isn't fun because it can be avoided by moving only 1 pixel, the movement doesn't even change, but it would be much easier to read

#### Karen wrote:

01:30:664 (1,2,3,4) - 01:32:035 (1,2,3,4) - please nooo, they just cause unreasonable reading problems, this kind of reading patterns isn't fun because it can be avoided by moving only 1 pixel, the movement doesn't even change, but it would be much easier to read
aaaa hello, well.. I couldn't figure out the level of fun present. I think this is subjective, I mean, it depends a lot on how each player adapting, experiencing in this type of patterns/map/music.
Maybe it's difficult for someone in the first game, entry into this type of mapping/Maybe it's something easy for someone who already is accustomed to playing this type of mapping
Well, sorry but I did not know about this problem of reading, but referring to that, I put it due to the suggestion of a group, including those who mod on this map.

In a certain way, thanks for notice I will carry forward this type of suggestion in my next projects!

g r a t z x d

#### Loreley wrote:

g r a t z x d
dont bully me :c!!

thank you >.<
Seguinte quem toma DQ nesse mapa vai votar no bolsonaro e é hetero conservador espancador de gay

congratz kal !
perfectly stacked sliders along with spaced streams are pretty dumb to play anyway i dont know about fun but the point that karen mentioned is objective in both mapping/modding way?

#### Delis wrote:

perfectly stacked sliders along with spaced streams are pretty dumb to play thanks.. -_ - anyway i dont know about fun but the point that karen mentioned is objective in both mapping/modding way?
maybe, about modding: i don't have much to say because, i just said above that, i got the feedback from the people, and that in the view of those involved a pattern in itself isn't unreadable, people recommend this form( mod suggestion) on this thread to keep okay (playable)
about mapping, i think doesn't have any aspect to making that pattern unreadable if see in editor, i mean, have many factors that make this pattern hmm.. readable like ar, bpm, perfect stack, non-overlap in previous/actual/next notes
well i think that's it
nobody says the pattern is unreadable, it just only makes the section underwhelming when you unnecessarily map a section too reading heavy
rip HD players