Sadly, I have to say that your analysis is getting very contradictory, and you are now bringing in fallacious arguments like the comparison between emphasis 1>2 and 100>101 which clearly isn't the case here. I spent a very long time micro-managing all my jumps so that their precise values express a mathematically noticeably change in spacing. 2:3 was the ratio that virtually 90% of my jumps followed. The other 10% I reserved for the construction of more interesting jump patterns to keep the player engaged, a value that I'm afraid you are misconstruing to apply to the rest of the map.Naxess wrote:
Greetings again! You seem to believe my advice is contradicting itself, but I can assure you that this is not the case. Let me explain this in further detail. Feel free to ask questions and explain your reasoning where you deem it appropriate, once again.your initial complaint was precisely that my verse and kiai sections were too different so I made them similarDo you not want this to be similar to the kiaiBecause it currently is already standing out...I do want this to be similar to the kiai, as I have stated previously. What I do not want, however, is that the spacing of these should be as high as it is in the sections around it. At the moment it seems like even the common distance between two notes goes beyond that of which many other maps would regard as an intense jump. When I told you to reduce the spacing here, I meant for both this part and kiai, hence why I've stated multiple times "base spacing". I did say that these would benefit in being consistent, so anything you apply to one, is something you would apply to the other as well. As such, there is nothing contradicting itself here, I'm afraid we just misunderstood each other.
The base spacing has been reduced though. As you can see, every jump in this map is now smaller than the old difficulty. As someone who has mapped many Insanes and Extra's, I can assure you that the base spacing does not go beyond "what of which many other maps would regard as intense jumps". Furthermore, you have to realize that I've increased the CS size to 5. Why? Because my original intention was to challenge players, and that was translated into large full screen jumps from the original map. You did not enjoy those full screen jumps so I took the liberty to remapping using a higher CS setting so I could continue to challenge the player's aim without necessitating full screen jumps. I'm confident this difficulty setting change is a great compromise that keeps my vision of challenging the player without having to rely on large spacings. The effect of CS 5 is that objects naturally look more spaced apart due to the small circle size and seemingly scaled out mapping structure. If you increased the CS to 4 for example, the spacing is actually not that large (even though all coordinates are the same). In addition, the map would drop to a whopping 4.4 star rating. Your complaints about spacing have been very carefully addressed with the remap and I spent quite some time finetuning my spacing scheme as well as asking other BN's in private for their opinions.I believe I've very accurately and expressively mapped emphasis onto what I believe should be emphasized. The spacing does not affect the ability for one to notice emphasis in notes.Which parts do you think fail to stand out? I specifically arranged the verse section to be smaller in size to the Kiai in order for the jumps on the Kiai to stand out and feel more emphatic. Additionally, I've highlighted snare patterns throughout the entire map.What do you mean by differentiation?From what I can tell, you believe things to already be emphasized enough as is, and while you are right about certain things now standing out more than others, let me remind you that the difference between 1 and 2 is seemingly much greater than that of 100 and 101. "A noticeable difference" is the keyword here, and what we defined as emphasis. Things are standing out better, but like I said, we are far from maintaining proper relevance with the song in this state. Because of the large base spacing, you are forced to create very questionable jumps in order to provide appropriate prominence to specific beats, which is obviously not preferable. I do not want you to misinterpret my wording. What you mentioned with the snares is actually also based on this, as I've mentioned at multiple occasions. Proportionally, they work, but as it is the difference is simply too small to allow them to stand out. You argued that you would have to use a full-screen jump and that this would feel awkward, and I most definitely agree. Not only because of the sudden and unwarranted spike it brings, but also because this would be harmful to the relevance to the song, as this is barely supported. Instead, I wanted you to reduce the difference in spacing between other, less prominent, spacings, thus differentiating between their relative emphasis in accordance with the song. In summary: You still need to lower your base spacing, as was the predominant factor in the five previous posts on the thread. I believe there are plenty of examples and details in what I have explained so far. To answer your last question: Differentiation is the action or process of differentiating or distinguishing between two or more things or people, and in this case, the difference between various ways of expressing emphasis. I understand you have spent a lot of time in making this 40 second map, but do not let this discourage you from seeing potential improvements become a reality.
Except this is far from being a 100 - 101 scenario.
00:11:940 (1,2,3) - 2.0 > 3.0
00:12:821 (5,6,7) - 2.29 > 3.06
00:13:704 (1,2,3) - 2.29 > 3.06
00:14:587 (5,6,7) - 1.97 > 3.02
00:20:101 (5,6,7) - 2.14 > 2.91
00:20:763 (1,2,3) - 1.88> 2.83
00:32:234 (1,2,3) - 1.5>2.1>3.0
00:33:116 (1,2,3) - For example, is 2.10 > 3.00
00:33:999 (5,6,7) - Is 2.12 > 3.19
00:34:881 (1,2,3) - 2.1 > 3.0
With this I have effectively highlighted 75% of the map, including every single emphatic jump in the chorus. Demonstrably I can say that there is clearly emphasis being put onto the notes that I want emphasized. Your analogy of 1>2 and 100>101 is fallacious because it is implying the difference is not great however, 1>2 is a 2x increase while many of my jumps are 1.5x increases (2.00 > 3.00 was the measure I was using to do all my jumps). I could continue and cover the entire map, but I think you already have my point. this is more like a 60>100 than a 100>101 and I've given ample support to defend my case.With regards to the slider, I feel it's not necessary here, I decided to express changes to the map through specific divergences in pattern, such as my use of star and pentagon patternsthe spacing I used is the same as my overall structure so players can appreciate the visual consistencyI want to look more holistically on the song itself rather than through individual measures and patterns.You are focusing a lot on the structure of the map, and this is good, but I have mentioned time and time again that rhythm and accentuation are far more important than structure. What kind of structure would it be if it ignored the song in the process? What is the point in making something clean and fine tuned if it doesn't even work well to begin with? You and me both want to reach a consensus here, but this certainly will not do. You argued that your rhythm choice brings for diversity in the map by having things in sections, but there is a plethora of different ways you could approach this, without forcing sections to solely be circles. What most mappers do is change the overall structure or density of sections, while still following the song at hand. With the use of sliders, you could even use various aesthetic techniques such as parallelism and a much more defined flow, rather than solely using than sharp angles. Throughout sections, even with sliders, there's plenty of things you could do to bring contrast, so I honestly don't see why you would resort to something like this.
"Use of sharp angles" is sadly a very vague term. Any mapper will know that angles can also be factored into mapping. Some angles can be sharper, others duller, they all serve to create interesting movements in the player too. As you can see from 00:33:116 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - sharpness of angle also corresponds with different patterns. You can see a mix of dull 60 degree angles for less important jumps and sharp angles for more important ones. Getting the player to shift their momentum at different angles creates a more interesting player experience too, and as you can clearly see from my use of triangle patterns, not all angles are sharp, and I really hope you don't consider 60 degrees sharp because they still allow for so much change between and x and y axis. Sharp angles like 5 degrees allow for little change between X and Y which is why players can rely more on muscle memory and do "back and forth" jump patterns more easily.
Additionally, choosing to map two circles instead of a circle is not ignoring the song, as those notes still occur. In instrumental mapping, especially with a song like this that syncopates rhythms onto red ticks, the lack of vocals already creates an ambiguous rhythm choice which is why continuous clicking is fine, since there isn't a very specific rhythm you need to follow either.usually emphasis is felt through comparison to prior objects. Sure objects to come can also be factored in, but players won't have those in their head as readily as objects and patterns immediately preceding these objects.You are completely right here, should you view patterns individually and only in comparison to what is and was present at the time of reaching it, but sooner or later, these objects to come will be placed in the same situation, wherein the previous objects are sub-consciously accounted for. It would feel very odd if two analogous sections were to differ greatly, even with multiple other patterns in between. While accentuation would thrive, consistency would not, and these both work to factor what is the relevance to the song.
So then you do want consistency? But that is precisely what I've given to you so far. You can clearly see similarities in spacing structure between the verse section and the kiai section.You were very clear that same sounds should be mapped similarly, and I decided to apply that suggestion.I believe my emphasis control is very accurate here. Do you not agree?I think this slider is very sufficient already, and a very big improvement to the map, considering it used to be two circles.All of these things you say are actually things I praised you for, yet they seem to be followed by questions for my intentions. The map is a step in the right direction. Everything I say does not have to be negative, since I want to provide you with feedback and guidance for returning the map to the ranking process as soon as possible. If I say that something is good and an improvement, why would you think it needs to change? You spent the effort in making a completely new difficulty as a test, which I believe is a good initiative. From there, I try to genuinely say what I think is an improvement and what is not, as a way for you to see in which direction I want the map to move in. There are still many things to reconsider before it is ready, though.
Sadly, they don't come across as praise because you follow up all your comments with "but"... or "however" which completely negates the statement because you then clearly state I need to make further changes, which is why I need to address your comment as a whole, not only looking at the compliment. Remember, i'm trying to improve my map, so if you pair compliment with necessitating improvement, it makes the compliment quite irrelevant.
Whatever you do, do not give up! You have made great improvements so far, but there's still a ways to go, as I've explained since the very first of these six posts. I am not here to dishearten you in any way. Oh, and don't worry about drama, it will only build up more if you believe it a problem. Even though my profile does say that I would like to keep a low profile, I will do whatever I can to help you move this mapset forward!
forum
Elmo and Cookie Monster - Cookie-Butter-Choco-Cookie [Osu|Ca
posted
Total Posts
335
Topic Starter
Props for keeping everything well formatted and easy to read
You wrote to me in private that you wanted for this discussion to end, so upon your request, we shall end it here.
It seems to me that we are about to reach a point in which we simply have to agree to disagree on most of the main concerns regarding the mapset, which is unfortunate. However, I am allowed to keep this veto up, as long as an agreement is not met and the reasons for the bubble pop were fair. The issues have already been amply addressed in the six past posts, and the reasoning is visible and sound throughout the majority of the mapset, as confirmed by multiple members of the BNG, along with QAT.
We have attempted to reach a mutual agreement and failed to do so, after discussing properly. Therefore I cannot allow this set to be rebubbled in it's current state. Even though the map has been remapped once (to which it is better), it doesn't seem like resolving the main concerns will come to fruition. The responsibility of the mapset itself, and to which direction it moves, falls to the respective mappers. I technically hold no obligations here, as I did everything to explain my concerns and reach an agreement with the mapper, which was not possible so far.
As to summarize the reason for the pop (see explanations on previous posts):
inb4 the thread explodes
I've increased the CS size to 5That does not change the reason as to why I brought it up again. I do believe it still a problem, even if it has improved since the last map.
Your analogy of 1>2 and 100>101 is fallaciousThis was an example exaggerated for the sake of clarity, not an argument nor analogy. The main point here is that the base spacing is forcing you to make questionable jumps in order for them to stand out, which is not preferable.
Some angles can be sharper, others dullerSharp angles is a vague term, but with the usage of sliders brings way for much wider angles and a greater diversity in terms of flow. This is by no means a necessity, though. Refer to the context.
the lack of vocals already creates an ambiguous rhythm choiceIn the parts where no vocals exist, there is actually a greater potential for rhythmical distinction due to the melody. Irreversible has used this to their advantage to accurately reflect elements of the song, for example, even in kiai.
So then you do want consistency? But that is precisely what I've given to you so far.I gave you an example in the initial post that was contradicting this logic, and explained it to you. Please refer to that again.
It seems to me that we are about to reach a point in which we simply have to agree to disagree on most of the main concerns regarding the mapset, which is unfortunate. However, I am allowed to keep this veto up, as long as an agreement is not met and the reasons for the bubble pop were fair. The issues have already been amply addressed in the six past posts, and the reasoning is visible and sound throughout the majority of the mapset, as confirmed by multiple members of the BNG, along with QAT.
We have attempted to reach a mutual agreement and failed to do so, after discussing properly. Therefore I cannot allow this set to be rebubbled in it's current state. Even though the map has been remapped once (to which it is better), it doesn't seem like resolving the main concerns will come to fruition. The responsibility of the mapset itself, and to which direction it moves, falls to the respective mappers. I technically hold no obligations here, as I did everything to explain my concerns and reach an agreement with the mapper, which was not possible so far.
As to summarize the reason for the pop (see explanations on previous posts):
- The overall spacing concept does not appropriately reflect the song, due to overspacing and poor emphasis.
- Many parts are mapped purely with circles, even though there is support for more engaging and reflective rhythms.
- As cause for the above two issues, accentuation suffers immensely, which in turn ruins the relevance to the song.
inb4 the thread explodes
Topic Starter
I've made another significant update to the Testing difficulty, addressing your two major concerns. Please do check, as it has taken me quite a while to finish remapping this again. I hope we can solve our grievances as I am hopefully demonstrating my readiness to make changes. You should understand that as a mapper trying to remap, the last thing I want to hear is contradictory statements. Do you want consistency? Or variety? You should understand that remapping takes a lot of effort, and when you miscommunicate your intentions, it both sets me back as a mapper, and causes distrust towards your opinion as to what I am supposed to do.Naxess wrote:
You wrote to me in private that you wanted for this discussion to end, so upon your request, we shall end it here.I've increased the CS size to 5That does not change the reason as to why I brought it up again. I do believe it still a problem, even if it has improved since the last map.
This is a fallacious argument. CS size was not the only argument I brought up, yet it is the only argument you seem to quote. Please don't do this, as it hurts the integrity of my argument and makes it seem like I was only using CS size as an argument for your original concern. Please check the term for "strawman fallacy" for reference to this logical fallacy.Your analogy of 1>2 and 100>101 is fallaciousThis was an example exaggerated for the sake of clarity, not an argument nor analogy. The main point here is that the base spacing is forcing you to make questionable jumps in order for them to stand out, which is not preferable.
You have not provided any support for "questionable jumps". What is questionable about these jumps? I have detailed many examples of proper emphasis usage. What do you define as a questionable jump? You are using vague terms without reference to the map, which only damages your argument. I would prefer if you could be more specific in your approach.Some angles can be sharper, others dullerSharp angles is a vague term, but with the usage of sliders brings way for much wider angles and a greater diversity in terms of flow. This is by no means a necessity, though. Refer to the context.
How does slider usage bring about wider angles? Circles can already do that? Additionally your idea of "greater diversity in terms of flow" is extremely vague and doesn't help this argument. As well, I seem to be misquoted.the lack of vocals already creates an ambiguous rhythm choiceIn the parts where no vocals exist, there is actually a greater potential for rhythmical distinction due to the melody. Irreversible has used this to their advantage to accurately reflect elements of the song, for example, even in kiai.
Are you sure a lack of vocals allows for a greater potential for rhythmical distinction due to the melody? It seems like you are just spinning a lot of concepts together here, without actually considering the meaning behind it.So then you do want consistency? But that is precisely what I've given to you so far.I gave you an example in the initial post that was contradicting this logic, and explained it to you. Please refer to that again.
You have continued to remain vague, using general terms that sound generally correct, but give very little connection between terminology and concept to execution within this map.
It seems to me that we are about to reach a point in which we simply have to agree to disagree on most of the main concerns regarding the mapset, which is unfortunate. However, I am allowed to keep this veto up, as long as an agreement is not met and the reasons for the bubble pop were fair. The issues have already been amply addressed in the six past posts, and the reasoning is visible and sound throughout the majority of the mapset, as confirmed by multiple members of the BNG, along with QAT.
Actually, I have been very complaint with your concerns, even spending a whole day remapping the difficulty taking into account all that you have explained. We are here not so much discussing mapping philosophy, but clarifying points, because you have made yourself very unclear, and now seem to be trying to refer me to previous posts which I already stated were unclear to begin with.
We have attempted to reach a mutual agreement and failed to do so, after discussing properly. Therefore I cannot allow this set to be rebubbled in it's current state. Even though the map has been remapped once (to which it is better), it doesn't seem like resolving the main concerns will come to fruition. The responsibility of the mapset itself, and to which direction it moves, falls to the respective mappers. I technically hold no obligations here, as I did everything to explain my concerns and reach an agreement with the mapper, which was not possible so far.
As to summarize the reason for the pop (see explanations on previous posts):Good luck with future nominations. If you have any questions, you can contact me through forum pm, once more.
- The overall spacing concept does not appropriately reflect the song, due to overspacing and poor emphasis.
I've decided to fix this by using 1.00x DS in many sections of the verse.- Many parts are mapped purely with circles, even though there is support for more engaging and reflective rhythms.
I have added more sliders to the verse section as per your suggestion.- As cause for the above two issues, accentuation suffers immensely, which in turn ruins the relevance to the song.
inb4 the thread explodes
Hi
[Easy]
00:04:881 (1,2) - Blanket (Yellow Thingy)
00:11:940 (1,2) - The Blanket is not that Perfect
00:18:999 (1,2) - Is this supposed to be a Blanket? When yes, pls fix
00:34:440 (3,4) - Blanket
00:38:410 (1,2) - Same as 00:11:940
[Corinn Akitoshi]
00:22:528 (1,3) - Blanket
00:31:351 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and 00:38:410 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Is this not a bit too hard for Player on this Level and a Difficulty under 3*? it seems for me already like a Insane Pattern
[Foxy]
00:13:043 (5,6) - Blanket
00:20:763 (1,2) - Ctrl+G?
[Hard]
00:34:660 (1,3) - Blanket
I'm bad at modding. Good Luck
[Easy]
00:04:881 (1,2) - Blanket (Yellow Thingy)
00:11:940 (1,2) - The Blanket is not that Perfect
00:18:999 (1,2) - Is this supposed to be a Blanket? When yes, pls fix
00:34:440 (3,4) - Blanket
00:38:410 (1,2) - Same as 00:11:940
[
00:22:528 (1,3) - Blanket
00:31:351 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and 00:38:410 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Is this not a bit too hard for Player on this Level and a Difficulty under 3*? it seems for me already like a Insane Pattern
[Foxy]
00:13:043 (5,6) - Blanket
00:20:763 (1,2) - Ctrl+G?
[Hard]
00:34:660 (1,3) - Blanket
I'm bad at modding. Good Luck
Thanks i guessnextplay wrote:
Hi
[Foxy]
00:13:043 (5,6) - Blanket Sure i guess
00:20:763 (1,2) - Ctrl+G? Ruins the pattern
I'm bad at modding. Good Luck
updad
osu file format v14
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TitleUnicode:クッキー・バター・チョコ・クッキー
Artist:Elmo and Cookie Monster
ArtistUnicode:エルモとクッキーモンスター
Creator:Monstrata
Version:Foxy's Hard
Source:セサミストリート
Tags:cbcc ppap pikotaro sesame street ozzyozrock ozzy irre irreversible nino snownino_ haruto haruto_aizawa haruto- sotarks xvoir linada red derandom otaku derandom_otaku Gero Foxy FoxyGrandpa Akitoshi Corinn Andrea osuplayer111 Deppyforce -_Rain_- Rain ascendance
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Greetings again! I like candy!
hey cutie nice avatar uwuOzzyOzrock wrote:
Greetings again! I like candy!
map description is kinda wrong now, though i dunno if you really care
best bn 2k17 isnt it :^)
Alright so spoke with Monstrata and he basically wants me to quickly elaborate on the other difficulties in the set.
[NiNo's Insane]
Would like to see a bit less circle spam, basically add some sliders where there are a lot of circles in a row. It is better in this regard than what I initially popped the map for, through, so other than kiai, it shouldn't need many too many changes.
In terms of spacing, just seems like many patterns ignore what's going on in the song for the sake of being comfortable, seemingly ignoring intensity changes around 00:13:263 (6,7,1) - 00:20:322 (6,7,1) - 00:21:646 (4) - 00:26:057 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - , for instance. If possible, avoid increasing spacing any more than it is atm. To make things stand out, decrease other spacings in the vicinity.
For being an insane, I really doubt having full-screen jumps is a very good idea, as seen being built up at 00:31:351 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - , for example.
Other than that it's just a bunch of minor inconsistencies and stuff. Why is 00:38:410 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - not 121212 like 00:31:351 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - is, etc.
[Haru's Insane]
Rhythmically this difficulty is actually really good. The spacing, however, may be a bit over the top. Even with high CS, it will still force very similar cursor movements with stuff like 00:31:793 (1,2) - or 00:38:410 (1,2) - , so it's not like there'll be any less of full-screen jumping like this.
Emphasis works well, but basically lower common stuff like this, to something more like this.
I just don't quite feel this is the right level of intensity for the song to have as average, especially not in an insane.
[Sotarks' Insane]
Rhythm is fine here too, but try cutting down on the jumps a bit, especially around 00:32:675 (1,2) - 00:38:410 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - .
Would also be nice to see 00:26:057 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - being slightly less spaced.
Should be ok other than that. I'll get to hitsounding stuff later if necessary.
[XVoIR's Insane]
00:03:337 (2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Could probably use with some sliders around here, this just seems like unnecessary circle spam. Could probably try some 1/2 sliders at 00:04:881 - and 00:05:763 - , for accentuating the drum sounds on 00:05:322 - 00:06:204 - a bit.
Would probably work better if 00:07:087 (2,3) - were swapped, etc. Basically rhythm stuff, I'll recheck this if necessary.
There's also spacing, though. With such high slider velocity you're basically forcing yourself to match and... it basically doesn't work well. Up to you what you do with this.
About how you use patterning, 00:04:881 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and 00:10:175 (1,2,3,4,5) - seem to be consistent in concept with 00:11:940 (1,2,3,4,5) - 00:13:704 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - , but 00:18:999 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - 00:20:763 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - are noticeably different for whatever reason.
To sum up: Spacing could use work, rhythm could use work, consistency could use work. Again, I'll recheck this later if necessary.
[Linada's Insane]
tbh this is fine
[Ren's Insane]
idk clap missing at 00:08:851 - and hitsounding is all over the place, but I'll probably get this this later.
00:22:307 (6,7,1) - triple seems strange because there's no other triples, could potentially place one at 00:15:359 - , but pretty minor.
Seems ok though in terms of what I initially popped the mapset for, not going to hold these back.
phew that's a lot of insanes
[Gero's Hard]
So this overmapping is really noticeable. It's more complementing the song rather than reflecting it, but I guess that's your intention.
Literally you could even just swap 00:02:896 (3,4) - .
00:05:763 (3,4) - these aren't even the same sounds yet they're mapped like it.
Most of the overmapping can easily be gotten rid of by removing the blue tick notes in triples, like 00:17:124 (7,3) - for example, but /shrug
guessing you'd want to keep it.
[Akitoshi's Hard]
nice
[Andrea's Hard]
Interesting use of rhythm, haven't seen this before. Yeah this is fine.
[Lower diffs]
this is also fine
btw not here to force changes on anyone, so you can do whatever you want.
Going to try reaching a consensus with Monstrata about his diffs in the meantime.
[NiNo's Insane]
Would like to see a bit less circle spam, basically add some sliders where there are a lot of circles in a row. It is better in this regard than what I initially popped the map for, through, so other than kiai, it shouldn't need many too many changes.
In terms of spacing, just seems like many patterns ignore what's going on in the song for the sake of being comfortable, seemingly ignoring intensity changes around 00:13:263 (6,7,1) - 00:20:322 (6,7,1) - 00:21:646 (4) - 00:26:057 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - , for instance. If possible, avoid increasing spacing any more than it is atm. To make things stand out, decrease other spacings in the vicinity.
For being an insane, I really doubt having full-screen jumps is a very good idea, as seen being built up at 00:31:351 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - , for example.
Other than that it's just a bunch of minor inconsistencies and stuff. Why is 00:38:410 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - not 121212 like 00:31:351 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - is, etc.
[Haru's Insane]
Rhythmically this difficulty is actually really good. The spacing, however, may be a bit over the top. Even with high CS, it will still force very similar cursor movements with stuff like 00:31:793 (1,2) - or 00:38:410 (1,2) - , so it's not like there'll be any less of full-screen jumping like this.
Emphasis works well, but basically lower common stuff like this, to something more like this.
I just don't quite feel this is the right level of intensity for the song to have as average, especially not in an insane.
[Sotarks' Insane]
Rhythm is fine here too, but try cutting down on the jumps a bit, especially around 00:32:675 (1,2) - 00:38:410 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - .
Would also be nice to see 00:26:057 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - being slightly less spaced.
Should be ok other than that. I'll get to hitsounding stuff later if necessary.
[XVoIR's Insane]
00:03:337 (2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Could probably use with some sliders around here, this just seems like unnecessary circle spam. Could probably try some 1/2 sliders at 00:04:881 - and 00:05:763 - , for accentuating the drum sounds on 00:05:322 - 00:06:204 - a bit.
Would probably work better if 00:07:087 (2,3) - were swapped, etc. Basically rhythm stuff, I'll recheck this if necessary.
There's also spacing, though. With such high slider velocity you're basically forcing yourself to match and... it basically doesn't work well. Up to you what you do with this.
About how you use patterning, 00:04:881 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and 00:10:175 (1,2,3,4,5) - seem to be consistent in concept with 00:11:940 (1,2,3,4,5) - 00:13:704 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - , but 00:18:999 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - 00:20:763 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - are noticeably different for whatever reason.
To sum up: Spacing could use work, rhythm could use work, consistency could use work. Again, I'll recheck this later if necessary.
[Linada's Insane]
tbh this is fine
[Ren's Insane]
idk clap missing at 00:08:851 - and hitsounding is all over the place, but I'll probably get this this later.
00:22:307 (6,7,1) - triple seems strange because there's no other triples, could potentially place one at 00:15:359 - , but pretty minor.
Seems ok though in terms of what I initially popped the mapset for, not going to hold these back.
phew that's a lot of insanes
[Gero's Hard]
So this overmapping is really noticeable. It's more complementing the song rather than reflecting it, but I guess that's your intention.
Literally you could even just swap 00:02:896 (3,4) - .
00:05:763 (3,4) - these aren't even the same sounds yet they're mapped like it.
Most of the overmapping can easily be gotten rid of by removing the blue tick notes in triples, like 00:17:124 (7,3) - for example, but /shrug
guessing you'd want to keep it.
[Akitoshi's Hard]
nice
[Andrea's Hard]
Interesting use of rhythm, haven't seen this before. Yeah this is fine.
[Lower diffs]
this is also fine
btw not here to force changes on anyone, so you can do whatever you want.
Going to try reaching a consensus with Monstrata about his diffs in the meantime.
Naxess wrote:
[Sotarks' Insane]
Rhythm is fine here too, but try cutting down on the jumps a bit, especially around 00:32:675 (1,2) - 00:38:410 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - . Why would I reduce a jump like that when the voice gets higher, i just want the player to feel more intensity on the voice volume that's it, so yeah not changing any spacing here.
Would also be nice to see 00:26:057 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - being slightly less spaced. Fixed that.
Should be ok other than that. I'll get to hitsounding stuff later if necessary. Aaaa thx but i like my current hitsounds.
Update
osu file format v14
[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 11885
Countdown: 0
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GridSize: 4
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Title:Cookie-Butter-Choco-Cookie
TitleUnicode:クッキー・バター・チョコ・クッキー
Artist:Elmo and Cookie Monster
ArtistUnicode:エルモとクッキーモンスター
Creator:Monstrata
Version:Sotarks' Insane
Source:セサミストリート
Tags:cbcc ppap pikotaro sesame street ozzyozrock ozzy irre irreversible nino snownino_ haruto haruto_aizawa haruto- sotarks xvoir linada red derandom otaku derandom_otaku Gero Foxy FoxyGrandpa Akitoshi Corinn Andrea osuplayer111 Deppyforce -_Rain_- Rain ascendance
BeatmapID:1149638
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tfw everyone can write long essays
Probably spent more time typing out that essay than mapping the song itself.
naxess where were you when kneesocks jumping heart star guardian was ranked
will this get rank ? :thinking:
on extra maybe line up 00:23:851 (1) with 00:24:734 (3,4) like this for a e s t h e t i c and to make the slider be closer to 20 degrees, instead of being closer to 45 degrees (which doesn't look nice imo)
Greetings!
I respect Naxess & Monstrata for their essays skills.
dw naxess has scared all the other BNs awayBritannia wrote:
If you rank this i will kill you.
Excuse me, is that a challenge?
Depending on you~Yuii- wrote:
Excuse me, is that a challenge?
Could say some stuff about the taiko diff but considering the song itself, im fine
You can go ahead
You can go ahead
Ascendance wanted to make changes but he is restricted. https://puu.sh/wqS5a/088d492d81.rar
http://puu.sh/wrmRf/ed891fefd0.txtNaxess wrote:
[Ren's Insane]
idk clap missing at 00:08:851 - and hitsounding is all over the place, but I'll probably get this this later.
00:22:307 (6,7,1) - triple seems strange because there's no other triples, could potentially place one at 00:15:359 - , but pretty minor.Fixed
Seems ok though in terms of what I initially popped the mapset for, not going to hold these back.
Thanks!
@Monstrata Can you check the hs suggestion from naxess since i copied your hitsounds earlier.
tyNaxess wrote:
[NiNo's Insane]
Would like to see a bit less circle spam, basically add some sliders where there are a lot of circles in a row. It is better in this regard than what I initially popped the map for, through, so other than kiai, it shouldn't need many too many changes. nah since this map was mapped based on pp, so the circle spam was necessary
In terms of spacing, just seems like many patterns ignore what's going on in the song for the sake of being comfortable, seemingly ignoring intensity changes around 00:13:263 (6,7,1) - 00:20:322 (6,7,1) - 00:21:646 (4) - 00:26:057 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - , for instance. If possible, avoid increasing spacing any more than it is atm. To make things stand out, decrease other spacings in the vicinity. hmm i dont see the reason of changing this, it play rly confortable in gameplay and consistent
For being an insane, I really doubt having full-screen jumps is a very good idea, as seen being built up at 00:31:351 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - , for example.k
Other than that it's just a bunch of minor inconsistencies and stuff. Why is 00:38:410 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - not 121212 like 00:31:351 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - is, etc. lol is two different part why should u keep consistent, one is the finisher of a part and other was build up
did some polish
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Topic Starter
Alright, made appropriate changes and updated all remaining diffs!
YEET
Polished some of the aesthetics
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109,68,13263,2,0,P|88:104|89:146,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
144,224,13704,1,0,0:0:0:0:
249,279,13925,5,0,0:0:0:0:
333,274,14146,1,8,0:0:0:0:
287,203,14366,1,0,0:0:0:0:
289,352,14587,1,0,0:0:0:0:
402,236,14807,1,0,0:0:0:0:
288,122,15028,1,8,0:0:0:0:
173,236,15249,1,0,0:0:0:0:
398,270,15469,6,0,P|431:245|451:207,1,85
341,58,15910,2,0,P|308:83|288:121,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
439,333,16351,6,0,P|495:285|515:249,1,110.499994941712,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
374,188,16793,1,8,0:0:0:0:
250,252,17013,1,0,0:0:0:0:
363,269,17234,5,2,0:0:0:0:
273,162,17454,1,2,0:0:0:0:
229,343,17675,1,10,0:0:0:0:
141,233,17896,1,2,0:0:0:0:
237,88,18116,2,0,P|304:85|341:117,1,110.499994941712,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
462,290,18557,2,0,P|395:293|358:261,1,110.499994941712,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
141,233,18999,6,0,P|208:236|245:204,1,85
122,83,19440,1,8,0:0:0:0:
205,143,19660,1,0,0:0:0:0:
390,83,19881,1,0,0:0:0:0:
307,143,20101,1,0,0:0:0:0:
351,233,20322,2,0,P|284:236|247:204,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
50,187,20763,5,0,0:0:0:0:
143,186,20984,1,2,0:0:0:0:
142,25,21204,1,8,0:0:0:0:
96,106,21425,1,0,0:0:0:0:
234,187,21646,1,2,0:0:0:0:
188,106,21866,1,2,0:0:0:0:
95,261,22087,2,0,P|136:253|176:267,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
294,240,22528,6,0,P|328:253|378:245,1,85
379,102,22969,1,8,0:0:0:0:
482,195,23190,1,0,0:0:0:0:
377,326,23410,6,0,P|282:318|255:304,1,118.999996368408,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
114,357,23851,2,0,P|92:302|98:243,1,118.999996368408,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
263,224,24293,5,2,0:0:0:0:
348,225,24513,1,2,0:0:0:0:
262,308,24734,1,10,0:0:0:0:
263,139,24954,1,2,0:0:0:0:
164,225,25175,5,8,0:0:0:0:
263,139,25396,1,8,0:0:0:0:
348,225,25616,1,8,0:0:0:0:
348,225,25837,1,8,0:0:0:0:
348,225,26057,6,0,P|381:164|378:113,1,118.999996368408,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
164,225,26499,2,0,P|131:164|134:113,1,118.999996368408,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
256,68,26940,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,68,27381,1,2,0:0:0:0:
133,115,27822,6,0,P|133:174|164:225,1,118.999996368408,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
378,115,28264,2,0,P|378:174|348:225,1,118.999996368408,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
256,316,28704,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,316,29145,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,316,29587,6,0,P|156:188|183:137,1,237.999992736817,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
340,64,30469,5,12,0:0:0:0:
340,64,31351,5,2,0:0:0:0:
429,119,31572,1,2,0:0:0:0:
339,170,31793,1,2,0:0:0:0:
419,27,32013,1,2,0:0:0:0:
420,204,32234,5,2,0:0:0:0:
267,121,32455,1,2,0:0:0:0:
496,64,32675,1,2,0:0:0:0:
383,277,32896,1,0,0:0:0:0:
309,47,33116,6,0,P|263:42|207:56,1,85,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
60,96,33557,2,0,P|106:104|143:97,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
305,162,33999,2,0,P|259:170|221:163,1,85
53,218,34440,2,0,P|99:226|136:219,1,85,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
364,324,34881,5,0,0:0:0:0:
221,236,35101,1,0,0:0:0:0:
190,348,35322,1,8,0:0:0:0:
320,258,35543,1,0,0:0:0:0:
181,153,35763,2,0,P|148:179|137:219,1,85
190,348,36204,6,0,P|263:370|329:341,1,136,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
255,271,36646,6,0,B|255:131,1,136,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
177,278,37087,2,0,B|141:215|141:215|136:149,1,136,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
335,278,37528,2,0,B|371:215|371:215|376:149,1,136,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
277,92,37969,1,12,0:0:0:0:
277,92,38410,5,2,0:0:0:0:
375,151,38631,1,2,0:0:0:0:
315,249,38851,1,2,0:0:0:0:
217,190,39072,1,2,0:0:0:0:
349,81,39293,5,2,0:0:0:0:
385,223,39514,1,2,0:0:0:0:
242,259,39734,1,2,0:0:0:0:
206,116,39955,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,192,40175,12,0,41940,0:0:0:0:
256,192,43263,12,0,45028,0:0:0:0:
cant wait for my first 300pp play
checked and fixed some stuff like metadata error
and mapset looks fine now
and mapset looks fine now