How are we dealing with standardization of OD in Taiko ranked maps? If you check the list of qualified maps, it's becoming more and more common to see OD7 maps in the ranking process. Four out of the six qualified maps this week are OD7. Of course, the Taiko pp system rewards an OD7 play way above an OD6 play (for similar accuracy), and I'm worried that if the OD meta increases to 7, then beloved years-old ranked maps will become irrelevant -- not because of problems with the maps, but simply because it is impossible for them to give as much pp as a new OD-powercreep map.

In the information for his new OD7 Demetori map, Surono explained that he chose OD7 because he was simply bored of OD6 maps. Now, I love that map, but I think that this should not be a permissible justification to employ an OD that will cause a drastic difference between the pp awarded by it and any other map with similar parameters except OD. Sand's new Demetori map is also OD7 -- for what reason? I was just browsing the five pages of the beatmap's thread and I couldn't find anything about OD (although admittedly I was using some control-f searches, and not reading every message in full). And I would be shocked if the 5-years-old currently-qualified Demetori map wasn't changed from OD5 to OD6 before it was given the green light -- after all, the OD meta of similarly aged maps seems to have been OD5. If that map were left at OD5, then it would be inconsequential to players' rank, relative to maps of similar difficulty parameters in our current OD6 meta.

Note that I'm not disparaging the mappers that I've mentioned -- in fact I think that the maps that I've referenced are among the best that I've played in a while, and in general I <3 Sand and Surono's beatmaps, ranked or graveyarded! (You guys are awesome, and make me love this game more and more!) I merely think that there should be some well-defined, standardized reasons to choose a non-meta OD for maps, and I find no evidence to conclude that there was any such reason to set the OD to 7 in these maps. Please correct me if I'm wrong -- after all, I'm not anywhere near involved with the Taiko ranking process; but I contend that the Surono example is evidence that there is a lack of standardization regarding the selection of non-meta OD's in Taiko. And I should stress that in the case of the currently-qualified U.N. Owen Demetori map, it makes perfect sense to me that its OD would have been changed from 5 to 6, because such a choice suits the current OD meta.

Note also that I'm not calling for the OD on these maps that I've mentioned to be changed. I am well aware that if I had wanted to ensure that these maps not be of OD7, then I should have complained while they were qualified. However, with four out of the six currently qualified maps being OD7, it's become apparent to me that we might be in the middle of an OD metagame shift, and that thought makes me exceptionally uncomfortable. The occasional OD7 map is of little concern to me; what is of concern to me is a full-on metagame shift, if such a shift is caused by nothing other than a seeming lack of standardization.

What are peoples' thoughts on this?



P.S. The following paragraph has nothing to do with my argument above, although it does question one specific motivation to use OD7:

All of this is not to say that I see OD7 as being necessarily a bad thing. With the current scheme, someone could have a number of FC's with maps of moderate difficulty, but then if they're going to get a performance increase using a very difficult map, then they're forced to FC or get an insignificant amount of pp, even though non-FCs of difficult maps can (to my mind) be a lot more qualitatively impressive than FC's of easier ones. So higher OD could be used to distinguish higher-difficulty plays from the heap of moderate-difficulty FC's. However, is increasing the OD on harder maps really the only way to get rid of such an issue? (That is, if people even think that it IS an issue.) Aren't there are other weighting procedures that wouldn't require, say, the 6+ SR maps to have a different OD meta than easier maps? I should stress that, to my mind, if OD inflation accomplishes nothing other than to allow players to gain pp from higher difficulty maps, then the OD is being used as a crutch to get around a problem with the pp system.

it might also have to do with maps being designed for specific mods. I personally like to play HR and look for OD5 or OD6 maps as they convert to OD7 or OD8.4 because those are comfortable OD's for me to play. Other players might like the OD7 given from Hard Rock on on an OD5 but dislike the increased scroll speed so they just want maps to start at OD7.

I personally don't play DT but maybe OD7 converts well when modded with DT?

Just throwing out ideas here as why people might be switching over to mapping with OD7

My question is why are people so afraid of OD7. pp is secondary to what the mapper wants for their map (Mapper made the map, why should they have to use OD6 because someone else arbitrarily decided it's better than OD7 for their map?). They want a high accuracy map? So be it! Personally I'd like to see even higher ODs to make differences in accuracy between players more apparent (especially with HR applied). The only maps that should have some standard are pre-Oni maps. Anything beyond that is fair game for higher OD. The reason so many old maps are OD6 is because they're from an antiquated time where high OD was frowned upon.

This has a quite simple answer

At high level play/difficulty, OD6.5-7 and above is for note-lock. When it uses a lot of 1/6, it is easy to kind of like, double click and miss your notes, kinda something like that. Hard to explain it perfectly, but that's it.

The maps in question are all specifically high BPM or use 1/6 extensively. Such as the Undertale map, its super high bpm, and OD7 is a lot better than 5 or even 6 because of the rate at which you are playing.

Can I mention this too? For all intents and purposes, the difference between 5 on 160 bpm and 7 on 200 bpm is pretty small, so you almost won't notice it if you have generally decent accuracy. It's not a shift, we just became more knowledgeable as mappers and realized that it has to be changed. Believe me, our OD settings have nothing to do with how much pp we think it's going to get, but because of the game itself.

I would also like to mention, in the arcade game, I'm pretty sure the OD is a lot more like 7 than it is 5 IIRC.

Just let me point out that Taiko no Tatsujin AC is at approximately 8.4 OD.
I even encourage >7OD since this helps player to improve acc in general. I can be honest that I have one of the shittiest acc on Taiko AC because of how I'm way too used to playing maps with overly simple OD on osu.

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wow Echo... you read my mind dem, also for PP :^) but yeah, I want write again the spesific reason for your post on OTOMAD map but I just posted link were you posted about OD7 on Raiden map, you posted OD7 thing even thats map is OD6.5 lol. whats wrong with High OD please lol

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/13223 OD8, dem....

depends on BPM, I guess? maybe inclined to personal reason from the mapper,

"My overall colors/pattern is easier to pass, so I put OD 6.5/7"
"Well, overall pattern really harsh and difficult to read.. maybe I just put OD 5.5 ~ 6"

or spooky reaSON

" ez map, ez OD"
" Hell yeh map, HIGHLY OD!"

and more like these reason. just my personal thought, to be fairly for the map

I honestly see no problem with higher OD for it does bring a unique challenge to those who casually SS every map they see. You stiol have to take into consideration that the higher OD, while giving a substantial bonus to the amount of pp earned, is as fair as it should be. Tl;DR , Higher OD=Higher pp, but more challenge to accuracy=more challenge for pp. l

I could understamd that a mapper would raise the OD naturally on a long map mostly because of the way accuracy scales, it would balance your average accuracy compared to a relatively short map.

So while OD6.5+ is on the uprise, I definitely don't see older maps as irrelevant. Not just because I play this game for fun, but mostly because pp scales fairly well(while it could be better) with the OD in place.

EDIT: I would also like to mention that this segment would bring a significant pp boost to HR if you manage to pull it off and allow it to dominate as well as DT

Surono wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/13223 OD8, dem....

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/66266 ╭( ･ㅂ･)و

High OD is good, it makes you a better player in the long run. However, there are exceptions, like the map above for example. Uplifting songs can naturally go along even with OD10, however calm songs which are slow are really a pain.

OD9 oh dem..... I hope OD10 exist haha

lolcubes wrote:

Uplifting songs can naturally go along even with OD10

really, sir? ╭( ;ㅂ;)و

lolcubes wrote:

however calm songs which are slow are really a pain.

yes sir.. on accuracy, better to play fast song than play calm slow song. but fast song too it makes pain, like playing OD8 bpm from 220~250 or above. the pain can be really felt on arms when trying to force good accuracy play.. or I weak.. ;L_;

Just wanted to point out that a player with a lower fps (60<x<120) could have serious issues with any OD>8 mainly due to the frame timings, overall lowering the frame gap in which you could hit the note.

A player using vsync on a 60hz monitor, practically requires frame perfect keystrokes on higher OD, while there is a good problem with this on any OD in regards to fps<60, you would expect the game to play properly at 60fps at minimum.

Then you have these people with god computers running osu at thousands of fps(quite literally) so they have unbelievably large frame gaps to hit notes, perhaps this could be Conor's secret to success, perhaps not.

These points are based on my experience with the game and some information may be inaccurate.

Dargin wrote:

Just wanted to point out that a player with a lower fps (60<x<120) could have serious issues with any OD>8 mainly due to the frame timings, overall lowering the frame gap in which you could hit the note.

A player using vsync on a 60hz monitor, practically requires frame perfect keystrokes on higher OD, while there is a good problem with this on any OD in regards to fps<60, you would expect the game to play properly at 60fps at minimum.

Then you have these people with god computers running osu at thousands of fps(quite literally) so they have unbelievably large frame gaps to hit notes, perhaps this could be Conor's secret to success, perhaps not.

These points are based on my experience with the game and some information may be inaccurate.

This doesn't actually affect your timings. The only thing low fps will change is the visuals, and introduce a lot of ghosting and tearing dependent on refresh rate. The actual hit range of the notes are still bound to the audio.

Appelkatt wrote:

This doesn't actually affect your timings. The only thing low fps will change is the visuals, and introduce a lot of ghosting and tearing dependent on refresh rate. The actual hit range of the notes are still bound to the audio.

This is false. Hit timing in osu! is (currently) tied to in game frame rate (yes, even beyond your monitor's refresh rate!).

60fps is like 16.8ms timing gap potential
120fps is 8.4ms timing gap potential
240fps is 4.2ms timing gap potential
500fps is 2.0ms (best bang for your buck, I personally use 480fps to avoid screen tearing on 120hz)
1000fps is 1.0ms (anything beyond this is wasting computer resources)


Also by principle I disagree we should be avoiding OD8/OD10 for this reason. Most old computers can run this game at at least 120fps and I believe they're separating input from frame rate at some point (perhaps we can get a dev to confirm this?)