Support this!!
Why should the multiplier change if the mapper decides to use different ARs in a map? Whats the point?BlackMidKnight wrote:
But I guess when the AR is changed, if implemented, the score multiplier must be also. Just like changing the keys on o!m (4K, 5K, 6K...)
Youre not mapping a song to make it difficult. You map a song because you probably like the music and would like to create something that you can share with other players. If a song is calm/slow at a section, then that section is not meant to be fucking hard. If it was, then the artist wouldnt have made it calm. Easy as that.HK_ wrote:
Why the heck would you want to make easier something thats supposed to be hard? If you make something hard easy its not hard anymore and that makes no sense at all. Its the best the way it is.
Make that a ranking criteria, if neccessary. Give the possibility to go all the way through, I'd love to see gimmick maps with heavy AR changes.- Lumi - wrote:
The AR change would be from only 1 point or 1,5 maximum !
Like you're having a slider ar8 and the next one has a higher sv (ex. 1,50x) then create an ar9 or 9,5 for this said slider.
Hope you see my point of view.
This only ever happens in autoconverted maps lol. Gimmicky mania maps are real fun and pretty much never confuse experienced players.BrambleClaw wrote:
You can't honestly tell me that when this happens in mania, it never confuses you to the point where you pause wanting to quit :/
Oh, well, I guess that makes sense. I don't really play mania, I only have a few mania specific maps lolPyaKura wrote:
This only ever happens in autoconverted maps lol. Gimmicky mania maps are real fun and pretty much never confuse experienced players.BrambleClaw wrote:
You can't honestly tell me that when this happens in mania, it never confuses you to the point where you pause wanting to quit :/
Are the slow parts of an otherwise fast map supposed to be really hard? Think of Image Material, for example. Do you think the slow slow oh-my-fucking-god-just-fucking-get-to-the-map start of the map would be worse if it wasn't AR10? But hey, there's nothing that says that different AR would NEED to be used in a map anyway. I mean, I really hope that if this was around when Image Material was mapped that itHK_ wrote:
1. Changing to lower AR at lower BPM would certainly make map easier to read/play but thats the very problem. Why the heck would you want to make easier something thats supposed to be hard? If you make something hard easy its not hard anymore and that makes no sense at all. Its the best the way it is.
There are other reasons but i wont point them out because probably nobody actually cares them and one i did point out is enough imo.
Im sorry but not everyone thinks of mapping as an art.Yauxo wrote:
Youre not mapping a song to make it difficult. You map a song because you probably like the music and would like to create something that you can share with other players.
Evary part of a hard map is supposed to be hard.GhostFrog wrote:
Are the slow parts of an otherwise fast map supposed to be really hard?
Yes it would because what the heck is ar8/9 doing in a 7 star map?GhostFrog wrote:
Think of Image Material, for example. Do you think the slow slow oh-my-fucking-god-just-fucking-get-to-the-map start of the map would be worse if it wasn't AR10?
If its not going to be used then why ask for it in the first place?GhostFrog wrote:
But hey, there's nothing that says that different AR would NEED to be used in a map anyway.
But what about newbies? I mean they have a lot of trouble even with singe ar per map, so why not just throw few more at them anyway?GhostFrog wrote:
As for the objection in a recent post about this being "confusing", that could mostly be avoided by saying that this can only be used after a break and/or only allowing it to be done via a red line. The AR changing would only be particularly confusing if there were 2 different speeds of approach circles on the map at once. Otherwise, it's just honestly not that difficult to switch between playing different approach rates. Perhaps a change in AR could even be indicated somehow during play so you wouldn't be surprised.
Also, I'd say they should ONLY be changed in BPM changes, nowhere else (as that'll indeed be to confusing)HK_ wrote:
Im sorry but not everyone thinks of mapping as an art.Yauxo wrote:
Youre not mapping a song to make it difficult. You map a song because you probably like the music and would like to create something that you can share with other players.
did he say mapping is an art? No. Also, Yauxo is right, you don't map songs to be difficult, if you do, the map is 100% sure to be a shitmap (unless your name is Scorpiour, Val0108 or Blue Dragon). You map because you want to map the song you likeEvary part of a hard map is supposed to be hard.GhostFrog wrote:
Are the slow parts of an otherwise fast map supposed to be really hard?
Have you gone insane? This is no way near close. Hey, I have a 260 BPM map full of 1/4 jumps so the star rating is 8 (and still rankable), Oh, here is a slow 28 bpm which is only a violing string, Let's make it a nice slider. Oh wait, that's not allowed, I need to make this a 1/32 stream so the difficulty matches up with the rest.
Uhm, I hope you can see this should NEVER,and I reapeat NEVER be the case in any mapYes it would because what the heck is ar8/9 doing in a 7 star map?GhostFrog wrote:
Think of Image Material, for example. Do you think the slow slow oh-my-fucking-god-just-fucking-get-to-the-map start of the map would be worse if it wasn't AR10?
Because it fits. AR 9 is still way to high for a 130 bpm 1/2 slow single part map, let alone that 28 BPM part. AR should follow the BPM + density of the song, NOT the star rating, as that is only an indicator.If its not going to be used then why ask for it in the first place?GhostFrog wrote:
But hey, there's nothing that says that different AR would NEED to be used in a map anyway.
Cause ot's a great idea
Every map with big BPM changes, like Image -Material, Alice 2 Alice (one of my current pending maps), Wahrheit, EVERY compilation, and much more would benefit from this a lot. Give 9.5/10 to the faster harder parts, and 8-9 to the slower partsBut what about newbies? I mean they have a lot of trouble even with singe ar per map, so why not just throw few more at them anyway? As if newbies would properly play maps like this. I'm new to this game, let's play Image Material. Also, newbies won't even notice a difference between 9-10, as it's both fast for them.GhostFrog wrote:
As for the objection in a recent post about this being "confusing", that could mostly be avoided by saying that this can only be used after a break and/or only allowing it to be done via a red line. The AR changing would only be particularly confusing if there were 2 different speeds of approach circles on the map at once. Otherwise, it's just honestly not that difficult to switch between playing different approach rates. Perhaps a change in AR could even be indicated somehow during play so you wouldn't be surprised.
And no, i dont think that only newbies would find it confusing because i would certainly too.
And what about players like me that dont rely only on their eyesight but on timing and rhythm too? Should i just recalibrate all i got used to in last 30secs just because mapper wanted to put ar9 in some (not so) random part instead of ar10?
Yes, if Scorp mapped the last 40-50 seconds of Image material (which is a slow 130 BPM piano) which is really calm AR 10 would be very unfitting, just as the other slow parts
Also, this rule is probably a rule which will get added to avoid abuse- Lumi - wrote:
The AR change would be from only 1 point or 1,5 maximum !
We're already 13 changes in, why not a 14th change if it improves mapping :3?ziin wrote:
The real limitation here is that it would require a complete revamp of the file format, and I'm not sure the benefits are worth the work.
osu file format v14
On second thought this would be easier than previously thought. It would just work off of timing sections. My other point still stands that this is already possible to do in the current osu format but nobody has done the work.Yauxo wrote:
We're already 13 changes in, why not a 14th change if it improves mapping :3?ziin wrote:
The real limitation here is that it would require a complete revamp of the file format, and I'm not sure the benefits are worth the work.osu file format v14
Sure.baraatje123 wrote:
Also, this rule is probably a rule which will get added to avoid abuse- Lumi - wrote:
The AR change would be from only 1 point or 1,5 maximum !
If making a storyboard is more work than it's worth for, really, then creating a whole new osu format is certainly more work than it's wort for, really.Yauxo wrote:
Via storyboard? It's more work than it's worth for, really. I wouldnt want to skin an universal skin (people use different skins, remember that) and fiddle around with every single object Ive put down. Modding would be hell as well if you have to move objects around.
As you mentioned, most people play with full dim and no video/sb anyway, so there's not much use in that. As a gimmicky map though? Well, yea, maybe. If someone feels like doing that. I know I dont.
You'd be suprised how many people can read Taiko AR/Scrollspeed changes without too many problems. Not too different for Std I'd imagine. People are already able to read heavy timing changes on extremely difficult maps (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/280107#), which, if you turn a few things, is basically comparable to an AR change on a steady BPMHK_ wrote:
.I think that if you picked ar8/9 for slow part before kiai most of players would be thrown of by sudden change of ar even if warned previously and thus very bad.
And since my opinion obviously wont change until i see the results please stop this pointless whatever it is.
Shouldve pointed out that I'd probably too much work for me, as I dont know much about storyboard - so I dont have much to object to that (maybe?).ziin wrote:
If making a storyboard is more work than it's worth for, really, then creating a whole new osu format is certainly more work than it's wort for, really.
Storyboards can use your skin. They just usually don't because the easiest way to make a bad storyboard is to have the storyboard interact with the hit objects like 11t does. I could make it work with a few skins, but it's easy to just force a skin and let the player modify the skin like in blythe. Obviously this would be done via SGLE or in excel. It's not a difficult process and would take 2 minutes to make a change via excel or 30 seconds compile time to make a change via SGLE.
Also, I'll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hromx6HeN_w
This is one of those rare "feature requests" that can be proved (like a jubeat mode or a technika mode). Your arguments would carry so much more weight if there were lots of examples of good maps that use different Approach Rates.baraatje123 wrote:
When multiple new things are added for file format 15, this can also be added to it
There is no need ti add it now, but it will be really convenient if it gets added alongside multiple other new tweaks
I frequently switch between AR4.5 and AR9.66 in consecutive maps I play and it requires no adjustment period at all. It's not difficult to get used to and putting the two approach rates in the same map doesn't add much difficulty to the process if it can only be changed during a break and is properly indicated in some way.HK_ wrote:
By hard being hard i didnt mean putting deathstream into the part that obviously shouldnt be any kind of stream. Since you already picked image material...I think that if you picked ar8/9 for slow part before kiai most of players would be thrown of by sudden change of ar even if warned previously and thus very bad.