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3L - Macrophylla Parasol

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OSUjanaiKATSURAda
386 posts
Joined December 2012
OSUjanaiKATSURAda
Hi              

General suggestions
  1. Increase AR by 0.5 ( it seems i could read the jumpy patterns better when its 8.5 )
  2. What about changing BG to something higher quality i think its not necessary to have same BG as xhero's map ( anyway i like this one fitting music style and somehow similiar to the BG u are using now image

    I Would add these words in Tags to give more reachability to map (it seems that xhero instead of adding some of these in tags he put them only in map description )
  3. "C80" why because of the song was performed in the event which is called comic Market 80 and its known as Comiket80 or C80 ( lately the comiket version/number its used in tags in all touhou related works performed in comikets)
  4. "フォールオブフォール" its just the title of the original theme of stage 4 in japanese (katakana)
  5. "pztr-0002" the catalogue number (reference: this and this )
  6. "安保さゆり" real name of 3L (reference: this )


Marathon
  1. 00:02:636 (1,2,3,4,5) - why to not maintain the same alignment in this pattern i mean like this and 02:53:544 (1,2,3,4) -
  2. 00:12:636 - insert a break here since it makes more sense when playing and limits the confusion, as when it wasnt a break added i was like when and where the next object will appear but when i added the break it informed me that there will be no note and then "get ready arrows" helps me to focus at the exact time
  3. 00:27:181 - here its fine since there will be a break anyway
  4. 00:58:317 (2) - and 01:00:135 (2) - they seem to represent the melody better if they stacked in next slider's heads imo ( i mean the sound this sound 00:58:317 - could be represented more efficiently when the flow stops then it flows again at 00:58:544 -
  5. 01:02:863 (4) - what about to make this symmetrical with previous slider feels better imo
  6. 01:08:317 (4,1) - what about to rotate (4) anti-clockwise and stack it with 01:07:635 (2) - something like this
    01:13:544 (7,1) - i think u need to increase the distance here because the blank here 01:13:658 - would be illusory or trap that the stream mapped to that sound so increasing a little bit distance may help (after i tested it)
  7. 01:16:953 (1,2,3) - 01:38:772 (1,2) - in general the distance snap used in most 1/4 consecutive patterns (not streams or when circle followed by circle/slider)
    only when a slider followed by an object ) is way cramped for the used SV thus when playing it feels like you force the cursor to slow down to hit the next circle/slider so i suggest to increase it to something like 01:30:022 (8) - (1.1x) ( common snapping through the diff ) ( 04:50:590 (1,2,3) - exception this one plays good because its followed by another slider)
  8. 01:27:408 (6) - unstack i dont see reason for stack here its just similiar to rest of unstacked 1/4 patterns
  9. 01:30:590 (1) - this one is suitable for stack
  10. 01:41:499 (1) - full stack ?
  11. 01:59:113 (3,4) - Ctrl+G since here 02:13:658 (3,4) - u followed the same angle and direction of the slider 02:12:863 (6) - so i thought of that or another suggestion like this and somehow same as 02:13:317 (1,2,3,4) -
  12. 01:59:681 (1) - make it symmetrical to 02:00:363 (3) - looks better
  13. 02:46:158 (4) - unstack (i would Ctrl+g and unstack)
  14. 03:16:953 (3,4) - the way is overlapped isnt good but as i suggested about distance snap (when i apply it to this it looked better)
  15. 03:32:863 (7) - hmm i just dont feel comfortable with this it doesnt play as complement to the rest of pattern maybe something like this could look better
  16. 03:55:817 (3) - move it a little bit to right so 03:55:363 (1,2,3) - form that square shape
  17. 04:19:226 (4) - it plays better when its stacked to 04:17:863 (3) - 's head
  18. 04:56:044 (1,2,3,4) - to this maybe ?
  19. 05:07:635 (2) - would sound better if replaced with circles 1 on the head and the other on the tail (red and blue ticks)
  20. 05:13:090 (3,5) - move them above where they are linear with 05:12:863 (2) -
  21. 05:17:863 (2) - move it below to form an equilateral shape between 05:16:044 (1,1,2) -
  22. 05:46:840 (4) - stack with (5)
  23. 05:55:135 (1,2,3) - Ctrl+G individually to characterize the second set of flute differently
  24. 06:17:067 - why this is a blank fill it pls or remap

I think i just posted/suggested all what it seemed to me could improve in my point of view/consideration

Goodluck Mr PG 8-)
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp
replied to the mod above ingame


thank you for your support my friend
Last edited by pimp , edited 2 times in total.
Lasse
Beatmap Nominator
3,596 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse
from m4m
metadata?
also source should be 東方Project or the specific game the arranged song is from

tick4 is really weird with the song, should be 2 at highest

color 4 should be brighter it's really annoying with bg dim, also looks weird with your bright colors
why storyboarded hitsounds ...

soft-hitnormal8 has 10ms delay https://i.imgur.com/XMcevTr.jpg
same for 9 and slidertick26

also apparently these are unused?
hs
soft-hitclap19.wav
soft-hitfinish10.wav
soft-hitnormal3.wav
soft-slidertick18.wav
soft-slidertick5.wav

storyboard:
https://i.imgur.com/ATM6ndt.jpg


00:17:863 (4) - would make more sense with melody and things before to stack 00:17:863 (4,5) - instead I think

01:07:863 (3,4,1) - just increase overall spacing a bit here since 01:07:863 (3,4,1) - looks pretty bad with the minor overlap

01:08:317 (4) - why 1/3? melody is on 01:08:544 - + sound on 01:08:658 - so idk what 1/3 follows

02:56:044 (3,4,5) - feels really overspaced for such a filler part

04:45:363 (2,1,2,3) - don't get this rhythm choice at all, what you did in chorus 1+2 made much more sense active/passive rhythm wise

04:56:499 (2,3) - just space them slightly more, the overlap looks so out of place with your other visuals :c

05:11:499 (1,2,3,4) - could snap the tails to 1/8 instead, think that fits such short sounds better

05:31:726 - weird to ignore the flute thing starting again, would remove one repeat and add something here

05:55:135 - normal sliderslide intentional here?


I'm interested in nominating this if things get addressed properly
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp
Lasse
reply color meanings:
(fixed/changed)
(denied+explanation)
(denied+explanation+hardly going to change my mind)
(other stuff)

from m4m
metadata? ( http://pizuya.com/pztr-0002/ the album artist is Pizuya's Cell but they don't seem to have a singer, the other ranked beatmaps from pizuya's cell are instrumental songs https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?q=pizu ... 0&la=0&ra= , the person singing is 3L, she is like 10x more popular than pizuya's cell https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?q=3L , at least in this game, according to ranking criteria i can use 3L as the artist https://puu.sh/yh6fb/7b184be8c3.png . there is also a ranked version of this song using 3L as artist https://osu.ppy.sh/s/53793 . i think it's the same as Justin Bieber not doing the instruments but still recognized as the artist. 3L is an actual person, not like a vocaloid.)

also source should be 東方Project or the specific game the arranged song is from (i read the ranking criteria and there is nothing there saying that i'm forced to use the source with japanese stuff. that applies only for artist and title. i like to keep it the way it is because anyone will be able to read the source and not only japanese players or the true fans around the world. i'm pretty sure the japanese are also able to read this romanised source too. and this has been done recently as you can see here for fairy tail https://osu.ppy.sh/s/491346 he used the japanese source in tags, i suppose it was for the same reasons as i explained)

tick4 is really weird with the song, should be 2 at highest (i need tick4 to keep my hitsounds consistent. in the past i tried storyboarded sounds and sliderslide sounds but sliderslide as a solid sound is unrankeable and it didn't sound the way i wanted. storyboarded sounds replacing the tick4 would be weird to play in the other game modes, also it's just doesn't looks like the right way to do it because it can be done with tick4. i don't think that it's weird because they are all silenced except for the parts that i have a custom hitsound ofc. so this is my reason, it's was not a random choice and it was not made just to increase the combo or anything like that)

color 4 should be brighter it's really annoying with bg dim, also looks weird with your bright colors (made it less like black and more like grey)

why storyboarded hitsounds ... (i put a lot of effort on hitsounds but unfortunately spinners don't have spots to add custom hitsounds, i can get rid of them if i really have to, but is this REALLY looking like a bad idea to you? i have two more sb hitsound that are not on spinners, it's something i have to do because delayed hitsounds are unrankeable and would basically do the same thing, except if the player gets a 100, then it would sound really off. this one might need further discussion with you i think)

soft-hitnormal8 has 10ms delay https://i.imgur.com/XMcevTr.jpg (all fixed)
same for 9 and slidertick26

also apparently these are unused? (yup. all removed)
soft-hitclap19.wav
soft-hitfinish10.wav
soft-hitnormal3.wav
soft-slidertick18.wav
soft-slidertick5.wav

storyboard:
https://i.imgur.com/ATM6ndt.jpg (what tool are you using to check this thing? i returned to mapping recently so i only know aimod and aibat, they don't show me this error)


00:17:863 (4) - would make more sense with melody and things before to stack 00:17:863 (4,5) - instead I think (i actually think this one is the most fitting way to map this part because they 3 and 4 are the exact same sound, a stack is perfect, works the same way as 00:04:909 (1,2) -. didn't stacked similar parts like 00:03:090 (3,4) - and 00:10:363 (2,3) - because variation is welcome/the mapping was based on shape rather than flow)

01:07:863 (3,4,1) - just increase overall spacing a bit here since 01:07:863 (3,4,1) - looks pretty bad with the minor overlap (not a big deal but moved a few pixels so they no longer touch)

01:08:317 (4) - why 1/3? melody is on 01:08:544 - + sound on 01:08:658 - so idk what 1/3 follows (it's the same instruments as 01:07:863 (3) - but the volume decreased a lot, it's also difficult to notice them because of the percussion sounds at the red and blue tick you mentioned are much easier to notice, believe me i have a lot of experience timing all type of songs, including very complex timing, this song is child's play for me to identify sounds on ticks and stuff.)

02:56:044 (3,4,5) - feels really overspaced for such a filler part (i'm very outdated mapper and was inactive for a long time so that's probably why i didn't understand what you mean by "filler part". i'm assuming you don't consider this part as important as others? like less important sounds? if that's the case then i disagree, there is vocal on every tick mapped and the flute's pitch keeps increasing, not all my notes have spacing based on flow,
some of them, like this part, have spacing based on the pattern's shape, even if the shape is not a clear symmetry. 02:55:817 (2) - has smaller distance than the other notes but it's only because i wanted it to be placed perfectly aligned between previous and next slider's heads and tails. 02:56:499 (4) - this is just a normal stack to a relevant spot, i think the increasing spacing makes sense because the flute's pitch is increasing too and the whole pattern have reasonable spacing, even 02:55:363 (1) - have a similar jump from previous note)

04:45:363 (2,1,2,3) - don't get this rhythm choice at all, what you did in chorus 1+2 made much more sense active/passive rhythm wise (the other chorus are significantly different from the 3rd one. 1st and 2nd chorus have the exact same instruments and stuff, they only have different lyrics. 3rd chorus have different kiai start because the intensity increases a bit later than the other chorus, have a few more instruments, ends differently because of the extra sounds the other chorus don't have.

i don't think it's bad to follow the back vocal the way i did, especially because it still have the lead vocal spots mapped. i did something similar at 04:52:408 (1) - , 04:53:999 (1,2,3) - and 04:58:772 (3) - )

04:56:499 (2,3) - just space them slightly more, the overlap looks so out of place with your other visuals :c (not big deal imo. but now they are not touching anymore)

05:11:499 (1,2,3,4) - could snap the tails to 1/8 instead, think that fits such short sounds better (not something that was used on older maps, 1/8's are something new mappers would do, i personally find this stuff very unpleasing. there are solid sounds in the 1/4's so i think they are the best place for the slider ends)

05:31:726 - weird to ignore the flute thing starting again, would remove one repeat and add something here (i would prefer to just add a custom slider tick for it than to do what you said, might need further discussion)

05:55:135 - normal sliderslide intentional here? (hats off to you for finding it. no it was not intentional, i'm working on this map since 2013 so at some point i made this mistake, probably my mouse doing double clicks or something like that. really thanks, i would hate to have this qualified with hitsound issues)


I'm interested in nominating this if things get addressed properly (did my best to explain stuff. it's not on my plans to miss that opportunity so let's discuss anything that needs to be discussed via pm later)

bookmarked the spots where i used storyboarded hitsounds and where slider tick rate 4 was necessary to keep my hitsounds consistent with custom sliderticks.
Lasse
Beatmap Nominator
3,596 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse
tick rate 4 still doesn't make any sense with the song, if you need it for hitsounding then your hitsounding is the problem
skipping a few hs in order to have an actually reasonable tick rate (2 or less), or changing rhythm to actually map what you're hitsounding would make more sense

maybe I wasn't clear enough, but source has to be
東方風神録　～ Mountain of Faith.
or
東方Project
no way around that
Okoratu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,913 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoratu
if you need to go through such lenths for the sake of hitsounds, maybe you should reconsider the rhythm you're using instead if you want to put so many distinct inpacts inside of sliders
01:17:294 (2) - 01:30:022 (8) - 01:39:113 (2) - are the only things that would sound actually broken without the tickrate at its current setting

so maybe reconsider the rhythm choice in these 3 spots instead of making everything more lol

04:45:363 (2,1,2) - these look like they're 1/4 based on your previous patterning, i think it's better to space these out a bit more
05:23:317 (1,2,3) - spacing is in no way predictable unless you know the song by heart it's rather offputting at this point in time

05:30:363 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2) - colorhax uses same color twice and idk if intentional
05:52:181 (1) - why 1 object combo
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp
Lasse
tick rate 4 still doesn't make any sense with the song, if you need it for hitsounding then your hitsounding is the problem
skipping a few hs in order to have an actually reasonable tick rate (2 or less), or changing rhythm to actually map what you're hitsounding would make more sense

(already explained in my mod reply my reasons to use tick4 and also why this is the only reasonable way to keep my hitsounds. you should't really consider it a problem because it's rankeable.

i asked okorin to confirm the rankeability and this is a "summary" of what he said:



yes, he tried, but i'm not mapping this song specifically for him or for you, or for anyone in particular, i just mapped/hitsounded the way i liked more while still not doing anything that was not allowed in the ranking criteria. no matter how much mods i get, no matter how much i try to adapt my mapping style to newer audience, my map will never make everyone happy.)

source has to be

東方Project
( done )


Okorin
if you need to go through such lenths for the sake of hitsounds, maybe you should reconsider the rhythm you're using instead if you want to put so many distinct inpacts inside of sliders
01:17:294 (2) - 01:30:022 (8) - 01:39:113 (2) - are the only things that would sound actually broken without the tickrate at its current setting

so maybe reconsider the rhythm choice in these 3 spots instead of making everything more lol


(bolded the parts from your suggestion above that i want people to pay a bit more attention so nobody will think this is an actual issue.

my original plan was to just get your confirmation that if it is rankeable or not so it would help Lasse to decide what to do about my map.
if it's rankeable, then i'm allowed to use it, then leaving the rankeability part aside, your suggestion becomes a simple hitsound mod, and i just denied.
i used tick4 so it would give me enough possibilities to include hitsounds the way i wanted, how often i used them is irrelevant, a song can be mapped by a different mapper and have a bigger combo without tick4 so the max combo is irrelevant, someone could make simpler hitsounding or even make it like keysounding, so how complex and different my hitsounds are is also irrelevant.

remapping is not an option i'm considering, my stuff plays decently and tick4 is rankeable so i simply don't have legit reason to remap.

i don't know if you were talking about the tick4, but later you said

)

04:45:363 (2,1,2) - these look like they're 1/4 based on your previous patterning, i think it's better to space these out a bit more (i wanted this to feel like a stack, i will see what i can do, but not guaranteed that i will really change)
05:23:317 (1,2,3) - spacing is in no way predictable unless you know the song by heart it's rather offputting at this point in time (the approach circle should be enough for players to notice that those are jumps, otherwise jumps and anti-jumps would not be allowed because they break the distance snap. i will reduce the spacing a big at least.)

05:30:363 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2) - colorhax uses same color twice and idk if intentional (yes it's intentional, using specific color to follow specific rhythm in the end of the map)
05:52:181 (1) - why 1 object combo (this is the only vocal in this part so i think it's fitting to make it to have it's own combo)

if at any moment i sounded harsh to you guys or anything like that, just know that it was not intentional. i'm not mad or anything like that, just a bit disappointed that people that are almost as old mappers as i am would be so nitpicky about that little detail that don't even affect gameplay. i don't consider it an issue so i would like to keep.

okorin please understand that i don't dislike extra feedback, but you need to consider how things can easily go wrong for me as a non BN/unpopular mapper.
i won't have BNs begging to m4m with me and i need at least 3 to get my map ranked, so in the best scenario i may be able to rank this map by feb 2018.

what i did does not seems ideal for you two because you are modders, i'm doing something unusual, some people complained before but others noticed and still didn't seem to bother them (even veteran mappers/modders). this is something very specific for this beatmap/the way i mapped it, i might not even need to do this again ever, and i don't rank maps every month like the new popular kids do.

so what do we do now?
Xinnoh
Elite Mapper
1,950 posts
Joined April 2014
Xinnoh
Not unankable =/= rankable
Usage of slider tick 4 is very much an intersubjective issue here, which means that it should still be fixed if there are enough opinions. There is no rule that says you can't use tick 4 can't be used, but we provided three different solutions that are all more acceptable than this.

1. Don't hitsound those parts
Removing hitsounds on the four sections, each one second long. Not having hitsounds on these small sections is better than tick rate 4 on the whole map.
2. Change the rhythm
You could still keep your hitsounds while having slider tick 2 if some of the changes oko suggested were applied.
3. Storyboarded hitsounds.
Storyboard hitsounds are put in the guideline section of the ranking criteria. It's not unrankable, but highly suggested to be followed unless there are reasonable circumstances (this is one of them). Slider ticks are also suggested not to be used in the ranking criteria, it's just the lesser of two evils here. (i also have a bubbled set with sb hs, still fine.)

Considering there are three solutions to the issue here, there's more than enough reasoning that it should be changed from slider tick 4. To be perfectly frank, it's just going to go to the graveyard unless this is changed.

some answers to questions you asked
Only 2 BNs are needed to nominate marathons after a rule change, and besides you already have 3 here that liked the set.
Lasse used modding assistant t/533593
Almost all bubble pops and DQs these days are unrelated to gameplay, which is why we're pointing out these issues.
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp
Sinnoh
Not unankable =/= rankable
Usage of slider tick 4 is very much an intersubjective issue here, which means that it should still be fixed if there are enough opinions. There is no rule that says you can't use tick 4 can't be used, but we provided three different solutions that are all more acceptable than this.
(you forgot to mention the most important parts of this RC quote, which is:
"if the mapper can exhaustively explain why they feel it is acceptable"
that's exactly what i'm doing so far)

1. Don't hitsound those parts ( basically, i'm being descouraged to be creative)
Removing hitsounds on the four sections, each one second long. Not having hitsounds on these small sections is better than tick rate 4 on the whole map. (you think sb'ed sounds are better, i think slider tick sounds are better. both are rankeable so we are cool)

2. Change the rhythm (my rhythms are fine, they play well and fit the music, no legit reason to remap)
You could still keep your hitsounds while having slider tick 2 if some of the changes oko suggested were applied. (most people don't even try to adjust the tick rate to see if they like the result, i also see a lot of maps that get ranked with long sliders that the slider tick is placed on a spot where a clap based hitsound could be used to keep hitsounds consistent, i just assume they simply don't care about hitsounds, standard mappers who actually care about hitsounding are rare)

3. Storyboarded hitsounds. (this is not better than using tick 4 by any means and you are the only one who suggested this. i already explained before why in the reply to your mod.)
Storyboard hitsounds are put in the guideline section of the ranking criteria. It's not unrankable, but highly suggested to be followed unless there are reasonable circumstances (this is one of them). Slider ticks are also suggested not to be used in the ranking criteria, it's just the lesser of two evils here. (i also have a bubbled set with sb hs, still fine.)

(your song has a lot of 1/6 rhythm being played around the same spots you wanted that drum-hitnormal. so you had to choose one of them
to map, because mapping both at the same time would be a total mess. they also can't be hitsounded with slider ticks like i did so you simply didn't had another option other than not having the sb sounds)


Considering there are three solutions to the issue here, there's more than enough reasoning that it should be changed from slider tick 4. To be perfectly frank, it's just going to go to the graveyard unless this is changed.

(again, there is no solution because there is no issue. some people might not like them or even care about them, but other people will.)

some answers to questions you asked
Only 2 BNs are needed to nominate marathons after a rule change, and besides you already have 3 here that liked the set. (good)
Lasse used modding assistant t/533593 (useful stuff)
Almost all bubble pops and DQs these days are unrelated to gameplay, which is why we're pointing out these issues. (your map didn't get bubble popped because of sb'ed hitsounds so it's very unlikely that my map will be)

Hats off to you guys for trying to encourage me to "follow the guidelines" a bit more, i understand that it's your "job", but unfortunately, what you guys are suggesting me is not really going to improve the quality of my beatmap. What you guys are trying to convince me that it's an issue is just something that you don't see many people doing because most people don't focus on these things like i did.
What i did has been done before, in even more unusual ways, on difficulties targetted for unexperienced players, and probably much more ways that i can't imagine.

since then, the ranking criteria didn't seem to be adapted in order to prevent more people from getting their maps ranked with those things.
just get over the fact that it's not an issue and let's move on.

still waiting for Lasse's
Last edited by pimp , edited 1 time in total.
Lasse
Beatmap Nominator
3,596 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse
I think I made my position on this clear enough already, gl
Okoratu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,913 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoratu
same, good luck
btw explaining your intention =/= providing a justification

something can be intentional placed in a way, but still be lacking
thank you for omitting all the context of the statement i'll know that i shouldnt waste an hour of my time trying to convince you of something in the future
Xinnoh
Elite Mapper
1,950 posts
Joined April 2014
Xinnoh
i share their opinion here :/
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp
it's probably time to search for BN's

i might get some mods in the meantime, but i'm confident on this project : )
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
maybe you could try explaining why tickrate 4 is superior to 2 or 1 and what it provides that other tickrates dont. And how the map objectively is improved in quality this way
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp
will edit this post
Last edited by pimp , edited 2 times in total.
MBomb
MBomb
owo what's this
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp

Kisses wrote:

maybe you could try explaining why tickrate 4 is superior to 2 or 1
no slider tick rate is superior to the other, it just depends on the song and the way it was mapped for one of them to be the best option.


Kisses wrote:

what it provides that other tickrates don't.
tick rate 4 provides me enough options to custom hitsounds the way i want.


Kisses wrote:

how the map objectively is improved in quality this way
my map is objectively improved in hitsounding when i have slider tick rate 4 allowing me to represent more sounds in the music with curstom hitsounds.

other possible questions i may be asked again, by anyone:

can't you create the same experience with storyboarded hitsounds?

very similar experience, but i don't think storyboarded sounds are a better option than custom slider ticks

why aren't storyboarded sounds a better option than custom slider ticks?

1)storyboarded hitsounds can't be disabled, even if the player uses the "ignore beatmap's hitsounds" option. so it would sound weird for people using custom skin hitsounds. this does not happens if i hitsound them as slider ticks.

2)taiko mode has different default hitsounds, so even if they don't use "ignore beatmap's hitsounds" the storyboarded sounds will sound weird. this does not happens if i hitsound them as slider ticks. my map will be played in taiko mode, that's a fact.

3)storyboarded hitsounds are descouraged in general, for all gamemodes because:


4)players are already used to custom slider tick sounds, it's an osu! mode specific guideline that people are barely encouraged to follow.

don't use custom hitsounds there then?

1)you are basically telling me to not be creative.

2)while some of them are representing unique sounds from the song, others are helping to keep consistency with hitsounds used in a fixed pattern, not having those would obviously make the overall hitsounding quality/consistency decrease.

why don't you remap to make the spots with custom slider ticks as circles,slider starts/ends/repeats?

1)all the spots would basically become streams/triplets. does not looks very creative to me.

2)this would ruin the unique gameplay i created.

3)those parts are well mapped already and i legitimately think they have the best pattern possible.

can you show an exemple of the "unique gameplay" you were talking about?

01:16:953 (1,2,3) - mapped to that instrument here besides the "kick" in the white tick.


if i mapped the same spots with 1/4 slider and a circle it would be something like

but it would take away the "long slider hold" that my current pattern has, and my current pattern follows the instrument's timing perfectly.

what would have similar gameplay would be:

but this would give the sounds at the white and red ticks the same level of importance as the blue ticks.

the blue ticks are obviously the more important sounds there, and the red tick sound is barely noticeable, so it would feel overdone, i'd rather not have that red tick mapped.
same applies to 01:30:022 (8) - 01:39:113 (2) -

do you know that the max combo is increased by using slider tick rate 4?

i know, but i don't see how having slightly bigger combo than i would have with smaller tick rates is a problem because:
1)my current max combo is reasonable for a 6 min long marathon.

2)someone else could map the song and have a bigger combo without even using slider tick 4.

3)i never seen anyone being legitimately bothered by how big a max combo was on a song with that length, people drop combos because playing long songs makes them tired, not the max combo itself.

4)score ranking still exists but it's not a big deal anymore, now people should only care about Performance points, the increased max combo does not increases max PP.

5)bigger combo doesn't significantly affects the gameplay, especially on a beatmap with slow slider velocity/low bpm/friendly mapping overall.

6)"1,000 Combo" achievement would still be achieveable if i was using slider tick 1 or 2.

7)"2,000 Combo" achievement won't be achieved with slider tick 4.

how can we confirm that what you did is rankeable?

1) custom slider tick hitsounds are rankeable, i don't think i need to show exemples for this.

2) muted slider tick is fine as long as you don't use muted slideslide at the same time.


3) i didn't find anything in ranking citeria/osu! mode specific Ranking Criteria mentioning that the slider tick rate must to match the song perfectly and constantly. slider tick 4 definitely fits my song, but not constantly, but i silenced the parts where i didn't needed them. if fitting perfectly and constantly was necessary, then slider tick rate 4 would not be rankeable even on songs like freedom dive (if anyone will actually check, this part of freedom dive i'm talking about: 01:30:693 - until 01:37:983 - no sounds on the blue ticks at all. so for exemple, if someone wants to map a beginner difficulty but having slider tick rate 4 representing the long streams, slider tick rate 4 would not be allowed because the part i mentioned does not fits tick rate 4)

4) i didn't find anything in ranking citeria/osu! mode specific Ranking Criteria defining how big the max combo can be depending on the song length bpm and difficulty level mapped.

5) the only things that osu! mode specific Ranking Criteria mentions about slider tick rate usage are

but this is about 1/3 and 1/2 "conflicting", this "conflict" does not happens using slider tick 4 because the song mostly have sounds on white red and blue ticks, also this is just a guideline.
it also has

but my SV is not that low, my slider ticks are all visible and this is just a guideline.

6) what i did has been done before and the ranking criteria was not changed in a way that prevents beatmaps from getting ranked with similar ideas.

can you provide an exemple of this practice "being done before"?

the only exemple i remember right now, is this one from this ancient mapping god: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/14624
the fun thing is that he uses different tick rates between the difficulties. so we can assume that the tick rate was adjusted according to the mapper's needs in each difficulty, just like i did.
he used slider ticks the same way i did, even silenced them where he felt that he didn't need them.

this map is too old, why do you think this is a reasonable exemple?

as i said before: "what i did has been done before and the ranking criteria was not changed in a way that prevents beatmaps from getting ranked with similar ideas."
let's compare to some other things used in the past that later were not accepted on ranked beatmaps:

1)beatmaps got ranked with ninja spinners (iirc, while some of them seemed to be possible to complete and get at least a 100 hit, you could only do it if you already knew where they would appear) ( https://osu.ppy.sh/s/132 ) this mapping technique later became prohibited. eventually the RC was changed to force ranked beatmaps to only have spinners that can be completed with at least 2000 bonus points with auto mod, then eventually changed to 1000 with auto mod.

2)beatmaps got ranked with red timelines manipulating slider speed and conflicting between difficulties ( https://osu.ppy.sh/s/16349 ) this was later prohibited.

3)beatmaps got ranked with "shaking sliders" (idk if the name is correct) that plays in a way that the slider velocity felt reduced significantly as if it was actually lowered (the only exemple i can remember now is this collab, during the part mapped by the best mapper of all times 01:53:979 (4) - 02:40:133 (1) -)
this was later prohibited, then i believe that this technique was eventually accepted if done reasonably, like the spinner thing i mentioned.

4)beatmaps got ranked with silenced slider ticks using inherited timelines with volume set to 0% (the ancient mapping god's map i used as an exemple has them)
this was later prohibited, i believe that it was prohibited because it provides no audio feedback during taiko play?

are you okay with ignoring guidelines?

i am, you are, probably all mappers are fine with ignoring guidelines and we all did it at some point while working on our beatmaps for ranking/approval.
my mapping style just requires me to ignore guidelines that most people don't need to ignore, because they don't try to do what i do and/or their songs don't requires them to try it.
"it's fine to ignore guidelines if the mapper knows what he is doing" i bet all of you said something like that or was told something like that at some point during your beatmapping experience.
i clearly know what i'm doing, i would not have beatmaps already ranked, or a star icon on this map if i didn't know what i was doing.
Last edited by pimp , edited 3 times in total.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
did you just actually write a faq for ppl who want to criticise your map?
i'm impressed

also i guess i should chip in; no matter your argument, a significant number of people who are responsible for checking maps on a case by case basis have determined that your map doesn't hold up to the standards of ranking. i'm sure you feel like your argument is sound but i don't think it provides any adequate form of justification personally (and apparently neither do they)

so maybe it's time to reconsider what makes sense to you, it just sounds to me like you got too attached to your "creative" idea of using tickrate 4 and putting active hitsounds on passive hitobjects (sliderticks) and now are being overly stubborn due to that attachment.

also the sheer fact that it's only used for 3 instances makes it extremely redundant. just fix ur shit kds pls thx
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding

pimpG wrote:

Kisses wrote:

maybe you could try explaining why tickrate 4 is superior to 2 or 1
no slider tick rate is superior to the other, it just depends on the song and the way it was mapped for one of them to be the best option.


Kisses wrote:

what it provides that other tickrates don't.
tick rate 4 provides me enough options to custom hitsounds the way i want.
To clarify I mean what it does for your map that would be better than all the other tickrates. I don't care about the second part with the RC and all that.

So I've played the map in editor with 0% music (parts of it, admittedly I was too lazy to listen to the whole thing, start to finish) and couldn't spot an instance where it wouldn't perform the exact same if the tickrate were 2.

Also I'm really against having sliderticks as strong hitsounds. You end up give feedback to notes that you didn't map in your rhythm; to me this is just wrong. If you didn't map the snares, claps etc in your rhythm then there is no need to have it mapped in via custom sliderticks. It can be detrimental to playing experience by give people false feedback
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp

Kisses wrote:

To clarify I mean what it does for your map that would be better than all the other tickrates.

So I've played the map in editor with 0% music (parts of it, admittedly I was too lazy to listen to the whole thing, start to finish) and couldn't spot an instance where it wouldn't perform the exact same if the tickrate were 2.
slider tick rate 4 provides me more slider ticks that i can custom hitsound, those parts wouldn't have enough ticks if i was using slider tick rate 2:

01:17:294 (2) - 01:30:022 (8) - 01:39:113 (2) - 01:45:135 (3) - 01:48:772 (1) - 05:03:658 (3) - 05:10:931 (3) - 05:15:476 (5) - 05:23:658 (2) - 05:30:022 (5) - 05:49:794 (2) -

Kisses wrote:

I don't care about the second part with the RC and all that.
while i obviously didn't write it specifically to you, you make it look like you are not taking my opinion seriously?
well, at least you didn't ruin your whole statement with a mocking comment in the end, like the other guy did, so i will take your opinion seriously.

Kisses wrote:

Also I'm really against having sliderticks as strong hitsounds. You end up give feedback to notes that you didn't map in your rhythm; to me this is just wrong. If you didn't map the snares, claps etc in your rhythm then there is no need to have it mapped in via custom sliderticks. It can be detrimental to playing experience by give people false feedback
you might not like them but players are already used to custom slider tick sounds, it's an osu! mode specific guideline that people are barely encouraged to follow. there is countless exemples of ranked beatmaps with slidertick as strong hitsounds.

there is no "false feedback" on custom slider ticks, if you reach/hit them you will hear them and keep your combo, if you don't reach/hit them you won't hear them and drop your combo, basically works the same way as slider ends or slider repeats.

i mapped the drums, snares, and anything else that is a clap based sound, just didn't do it 100% as clickable notes because it would result on my map becoming a long 1/2 stream with eventual 1/4 streams and triplets and very few 1/1 sliders. this would drastically limit creativity, would not provide the gameplay i intended and would make my map feel like a generic PP farming beatmap (except that it wouldn't give as much PP).
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
the last bit wasn't mocking though, it was just a random joke to lighten the mood since ppl tend to freak out when i'm too serious
now you're freaking out cause i'm not serious enough
awawa

Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
Just because something's rankable doesn't mean it's good. Rankability won't help you if none of the BNs is willing to nominate the map. And even if you'll find them, other BNs can still veto the nomination if they think it's reasonable to do so.

The fact that you're not really able to convince anyone of your decision even with much effort spent shows that your argument is pretty unreasonable. Slider ticks are meant to represent (usually weaker) beats in the song. Sometimes it's not necessary to ensure that each one has an audible sound attached to it (for example if one section of the song has very few beats so that slider ticks land on nothing) which usually isn't problematic, but in your map almost every second slider tick is not landing on any audible sound so it's quite obviously a bad decision.
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp

Desperate-kun wrote:

Just because something's rankable doesn't mean it's good.
every single person has it's own opinion on what's good and what's not.
if it's rankeable then it can be considered good enough, otherwise it wouldn't be rankeable.

Desperate-kun wrote:

Rankability won't help you if none of the BNs is willing to nominate the map.
it's too early to assume that none of the BNs is willing to nominate the map.

Desperate-kun wrote:

And even if you'll find them, other BNs can still veto the nomination if they think it's reasonable to do so.
this is the 1st time a veto was ever mentioned in this thread. even people who disagreed with me wished me good luck, i appreciate their effort and i respect their decision.
whatever happens after i get a bubble, i will handle the situation the same way i'm handling so far.

Desperate-kun wrote:

The fact that you're not really able to convince anyone of your decision even with much effort spent shows that your argument is pretty unreasonable.
I'm still the only one stating facts, the sources i used are official, the people against are basically complaining because it's unusual/ they don't like my style of custom hitsounding.

Desperate-kun wrote:

Slider ticks are meant to represent (usually weaker) beats in the song.
what you think that they are meant to represent is still your personal opinion/taste.

Desperate-kun wrote:

Sometimes it's not necessary to ensure that each one has an audible sound attached to it (for example if one section of the song has very few beats so that slider ticks land on nothing) which usually isn't problematic, but in your map almost every second slider tick is not landing on any audible sound so it's quite obviously a bad decision.
most of them actually lands on audible sounds, it's just that most don't seem interesting enough to custom hitsoud.
i don't even know why you guys are so bothered by this

is it the max combo? i already explained why it's not something that should be taken into consideration

people think they sound weird? not really because they are muted in the parts that i don't need them. if they don't like the parts i used custom then there is nothing i can do about it.

people think they look weird? anyone who is skilled enough to play an easy difficulty and get a decent combo, already saw them enough to decide if they are okay with how the slider tick looks or if they are going to quit the game because they don't like them, then i don't think so, and i'm okay with using a skin element to replace the slider tick if necessary.

people think they play weird?if the player is not fast enough to reach the slider tick, then he is not fast enough to reach the slider end, so he should be playing easier difficulties.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

players might notice the difference but they don't really care about slider tick rate.
the relevant settings and statistics for them are:


so far i explained the best i could why the usage of tick 4 in this song is not a bad thing, why i need it this way and why the optional ways are not going to improve the quality of my map or at least keep the same quality (they would actually reduce it).

from my perspective, it looks like i'm dealing with people who don't hesitate to force me to limit my creativity in order to prevent me from using a setting that is not used often nowadays. i already proved with facts that what i'm doing is not going to negatively affect my beatmap at all.

i'm basically ignoring a few guidelines at most, but you guys are almost reacting like this was a song containing offensive lyrics, variable bpm poorly timed, with a lot of unsnapped objects and with more difficulties by a guest mapper than the actual map creator.
Last edited by pimp , edited 6 times in total.
MagicDragon
126 posts
Joined February 2015
MagicDragon
never mind
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
Slider-tick's are a passive hitsound. They play exactly on time, unlike slider/circle heads which are based off when you actually "hit" them.

Why not use storyboarded hitsounds instead of slider-tick hitsounds then? It's the same effect. You get a sound to play at a specific point in time without having to do slidertick hitsounding.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
so far i explained the best i could why the usage of tick 4 in this song is not a bad thing, why i need it this way and why the optional ways are not going to improve the quality of my map or at least keep the same quality (they would actually reduce it).
I can't see it decreasing the map's quality, objectively speaking

from my perspective, it looks like i'm dealing with people who don't hesitate to force me to limit my creativity in order to prevent me from using a setting that is not used often nowadays. i already proved with facts that what i'm doing is not going to negatively affect my beatmap at all.
You haven't stated them as facts really, just what you were trying to do. Basically they only here the hitsounds if they hit the ticks you could legit just add them in the mp3 via audacity if you were so bothered; but then you'd realise how stupid it actually is.

Also why do you keep bringing up creativity? This isn't an attempt at being creative just adding sounds in places that aren't part of your rhythms.

Also also, you talk about bring up the topic of creativity and how placing active hitsounds on passive objects adds to that yet the rhythm you've limited your ownself with the rhythms you've used. Eg 01:47:635 (1,2,3) - and 01:48:317 (5,6,7) - are triplets despite the song having a double at 01:47:635 (1) - and there being absolutely no sound at 01:48:431 (6) . Oh and a triplet at 01:48:772 (1) though this is mapped as a 1/2 for reasons im not too sure . You mapped these for a generic style rhythm when you could have had a much more interesting one but fallback to your hitsounding for creativity???
[]There have only been 2 instances that I'm aware of that have been ranked with slidertick hitsounds. They were both seen as bad but BNs passed them because the were the lower diff in the sets and either the BNs didn't fully check them or didn't care enough. A lot of people think it's stupid so yeah, I think that says a lot
[]This is the first (and probs) the last time I'll reply to someone quoting them this way. I hope you feel special ~
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp

Monstrata wrote:

Slider-tick's are a passive hitsound.
they work the same way as repeats and slider ends, repeats and slider ends are treated with the same importance as circles and slider heads on hitsounding, so the slider ticks are fine having the same treatment (they already have, beatmaps get ranked with slider tick with strong sounds)

Monstrata wrote:

They play exactly on time, unlike slider/circle heads which are based off when you actually "hit" them.
you can still hit the slider ticks if you miss the slider head/tail. you can also hit them as they were circles, the gap between the slider ticks doesn't needs to be hold/hit, but it doesn't makes sense because it's easier to just hold.
a good comparission would be playing a shooter game with a gun that shoots automatically but can also be adjusted to shoot manually.

Monstrata wrote:

Why not use storyboarded hitsounds instead of slider-tick hitsounds then? It's the same effect.
because it has bad side effects that slider ticks don't.

Monstrata wrote:

You get a sound to play at a specific point in time without having to do slidertick hitsounding.
the ranking criteria sugests mappers to avoid using storyboarded hitsounds.

this guideline in particular seems to be treated like "only use it if you really don't have another option" it's definitely one of the guidelines that are most encouraged to be followed.
unlike the custom slider tick guideline that is more like "use it if you at least know what you are doing" and it's one of the most ignored guidelines already.

i have a lot of custom slider ticks, so it's not good to replace them for storyboarded sounds because we are told to avoid using them.

(bad)side effects of using sb'ed sounds:

1)the sound will be played even if the player misses the note (unlike slider ticks).
2)can't be disabled, "ignore beatmap hitsounds" and "disable storyboard" doesn't work for sb'ed hitsounds.
so players with custom skin hitsounds will still hear them (unlike slider ticks).
3)even if the player don't disable anything and play with default skin, the sound will be confusing during taiko play,
because the default sounds for taiko mode are different (unlike slider ticks). (my map will be played in taiko mode)

side effects of using custom slider ticks:
1)none?



Kisses wrote:

I can't see it decreasing the map's quality, objectively speaking
remapping in a way that it would fit the hitsouds, would result on a lot of extra streams/triplets, and they wouldn't provide the gameplay i wanted...already explained before.

Kisses wrote:

You haven't stated them as facts really, just what you were trying to do.
i did what i wanted to do and proved that everything i did is rankeable mentioning what's written in the ranking criteria, doesn't gets more clear than that.
anyone can check by themselves.

https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Criteria/osu!
https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Criteria/

Kisses wrote:

Basically they only here the hitsounds if they hit the ticks you could legit just add them in the mp3 via audacity if you were so bothered; but then you'd realise how stupid it actually is.
no need to create fairy tales, i'm not trying to mock anyone's preference, i just want my preferences to be taken more seriously.

Kisses wrote:

Also why do you keep bringing up creativity? This isn't an attempt at being creative just adding sounds in places that aren't part of your rhythms.
no need to change the topic
most mappers don't put as much effort on hitsounds as i did, most of them only do the basic.
it's okay if you think my hitsounds are not creative anyway.

Kisses wrote:

Also also, you talk about bring up the topic of creativity and how placing active hitsounds on passive objects adds to that yet the rhythm you've limited your ownself with the rhythms you've used. Eg 01:47:635 (1,2,3) - and 01:48:317 (5,6,7) - are triplets despite the song having a double at 01:47:635 (1) - and there being absolutely no sound at 01:48:431 (6) . Oh and a triplet at 01:48:772 (1) though this is mapped as a 1/2 for reasons im not too sure . You mapped these for a generic style rhythm when you could have had a much more interesting one but fallback to your hitsounding for creativity???
it's probably hopeless to get you or anyone else to teach me how to map at this point (7 years of osu!) but my map would be bubbled already if i agreed to change the tick rate earlier, so there is not much to say about my notes, actually.

Kisses wrote:

There have only been 2 instances that I'm aware of that have been ranked with slidertick hitsounds. They were both seen as bad but BNs passed them because the were the lower diff in the sets and either the BNs didn't fully check them or didn't care enough. A lot of people think it's stupid so yeah, I think that says a lot
i modded a map a few weeks ago, the mapper was not using custom slider ticks, i suggested custom slider ticks, he didn't seem bothered and agreed imediately, none of the modders complained, the map got ranked already, didn't see anyone complaining about them later.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/647217 qualified by mosntrata (not that it makes any difference, actually)

Kisses wrote:

This is the first (and probs) the last time I'll reply to someone quoting them this way. I hope you feel special ~
thank you for your feedback
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
do you realize that guidelines are there to be evaluated on a case-by-casis basis
and that there is a handful of case-by-case-basis-evaluators posting on your map about your case and what they feel should happen with it
if RC was a strict guideline as you are trying to make it out to be it would be an automated process, but it's not
that's for a reason, there is a reason so many people are telling you to fix this, it's not because it's "creative", it's because they don't feel it belongs in the ranked category of maps

either way it's not looking like you'll convince anyone, why don't you just try to understand where the others are coming from?
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp
since you are not a nominator i'll assume you are here because you like my map and want it ranked asap.
please be a bit patient, i also wanted this ranked asap but not at the cost of ruining things that i am proud of doing in my mapset.

what you mentioned i already know, but thanks for showing interest and i appreciate your support.
Mun
468 posts
Joined July 2015
Mun
i think what Tess wants here is for you to stop deliberately ignoring the point of all this discussion

rankable != good, and if you keep on driving away nominators because you're unwilling to look at this map from any other point of view, it won't matter how rankable the map is since nobody will want to icon it
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp
i'm just defending my creation being as much polite as i should, and the discussion is not over.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
of course i want your map to be ranked, that's why i'm telling you to listen to the advice you've been given
tho, i'm mostly here cause nominators are tearing their hair out at your stubbornness and i felt the urge to drop my 2 cents
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp
i'm glad i was right about you.

i'm the one to be stressed in this situation because i have to deal with everyone, but i'm actually not.

the discussion is not over, we will see.
Behon
Elite Mapper
1,380 posts
Here since the beginning
Behon
Here's a long overdue return favor for your M4M 2 months back

00:00:818 It would be more interesting to place these circles in different spots rather than stacking.
00:06:272 Same here.
00:12:409 Maybe add more circles or change this one to a slider or spinner to fill the empty spot after it?
00:17:863 (4) Suddenly stacking these two after the previous two circles feels unnatural.
01:11:953 (2) I'd raise this vertically a little more to make the progression from circles 1 to 3 more visually appealing.
03:13:090 (2) It also looks visually unappealing to have the sliders overlap like this. I'd try and make them blanket each other instead.
03:17:408 (4) Same here.
05:03:090 (1) I'd get rid of the new combo here and apply it to the slider right afterward.
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp
Thank you, will check asap



And seems like i will need to use a different approach to make you guys understand my point of view.

I'm pretty sure it will work better.

Stay tuned


Behonkiss wrote:

Here's a long overdue return favor for your M4M 2 months back
(i have to admit that i was really mad at you because didn't look like you were going to honor our deal lol.
i wanted some feedback from veteran mappers before finding bn's. unfortunately there are not many of them available for now but at least i got you and another veteran to check this map :) )

00:00:818 It would be more interesting to place these circles in different spots rather than stacking. (i mapped the intro using a "boring" style intentionally, i wanted it to feel outdated)
00:06:272 Same here. (^)
00:12:409 Maybe add more circles or change this one to a slider or spinner to fill the empty spot after it? (the piano is no longer present and thre is no other instrument to follow starting here, the long background sound started way earlier so i can't follow it)
00:17:863 (4) Suddenly stacking these two after the previous two circles feels unnatural. (i disagree, they are the same sounds so it makes sense to stack, i didn't do the same on other similar parts because i wanted some variation)
01:11:953 (2) I'd raise this vertically a little more to make the progression from circles 1 to 3 more visually appealing. (i will move the previous note by a few pixels so the curve on 123 will be more compatible with the curve on 234)
03:13:090 (2) It also looks visually unappealing to have the sliders overlap like this. I'd try and make them blanket each other instead. (i like them :( )
03:17:408 (4) Same here. (^)
05:03:090 (1) I'd get rid of the new combo here and apply it to the slider right afterward. (the flute starts here so i can't do this)
thank you for your help :)
Last edited by pimp , edited 5 times in total.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
Well, I tried to be helpful. The storyboarded hitsound guideline is largely ignored. THe only important thing is setting the volume to be lower than the regular clap/whistle/etc... volume if you are putting the storyboarded hitsound in a location where there is no object (A gap in between two objects). Other than that there is no drawback that I'm aware of, as someone who has used storyboarded hitsounds for pretty much the same reason you're currently using slider-tick hitsounding. You can refer to the Normal and Hard on https://osu.ppy.sh/s/608723 where it's not possible to keysound every piano note on the map without causing the note density to be too high for the difficulty. (Song is full 1/2 piano rhythms, but obviously you can't map them all on Normal or Hard).
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
pimp

Monstrata wrote:

Well, I tried to be helpful.
and I am very thankful for you and everyone trying to help me.

Monstrata wrote:

The storyboarded hitsound guideline is largely ignored.
It's okay if it's ignored if the map was made in a way that there is no better option (slider ticks, in the case of my map), it's a guideline after all.

Monstrata wrote:

THe only important thing is setting the volume to be lower than the regular clap/whistle/etc... volume if you are putting the storyboarded hitsound in a location where there is no object (A gap in between two objects). Other than that there is no drawback that I'm aware of, as someone who has used storyboarded hitsounds for pretty much the same reason you're currently using slider-tick hitsounding. You can refer to the Normal and Hard on https://osu.ppy.sh/s/608723 where it's not possible to keysound every piano note on the map without causing the note density to be too high for the difficulty. (Song is full 1/2 piano rhythms, but obviously you can't map them all on Normal or Hard).
yes i understand that you didn't had the options that i have in my map, i would never tell you to remap and to make them as slider ticks if i modded that map because the way you mapped is fine.

i'm just expecting the same treatment for my map, because i have better options than storyboard hitsounding, and i already explained why slider ticks are a better option than storyboarded hitsounds. (p/6349361 and p/6350854 for anyone who didn't see it yet)
Ataraxia
673 posts
Joined February 2014
Ataraxia
Minha Nossa O.O
igorsprite
623 posts
Joined September 2015
igorsprite
pq q aparece tanto BN pra falar da mesma coisa? :?
Net0
1,238 posts
Joined October 2014
Net0
Slider tickrate at 4 used in order to allow the mapper to custom hitsound ticks that are on 1/4 snap...
I can't see why people are having so much trouble to understand something as simple as this. People did the same idea with high bpm maps and tick set on 2 to map consecutive 1/2 snare/kicks on 3/2 sliders. (in maps with simplified density rhythm ofc) .In this case it's the same concept applied to 1/4 sounds passivelly mapped with his rhythm, but instead of current percussion passive mapping (which would basically mean mapping reverses everywhere) he's doing an old melody rhythm map that uses custom tick hitsounding to add more to the experience.

Kisses wrote:

There have only been 2 instances that I'm aware of that have been ranked with slidertick hitsounds. They were both seen as bad but BNs passed them because the were the lower diff in the sets and either the BNs didn't fully check them or didn't care enough. So basically val0108 is a bad mapper,right... Please if you are not aware of something, at least do some research. Mapping slidertick. with custom was done A LOT, it's not a case of two maps that were overlooked.

Kisses wrote:

A lot of people think it's stupid so yeah, I think that says a lot A lot of people say that spacing 1/2 circles spaced everywhere in a song, mapping sliders that cover the entire screen with big sv, etc, are a bad idea, and yet, people still rank maps that do so. It's just the matter of making a mapping decision and check if that decision can be ranked or not.
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