Hello everyone, Yuii- here better known as Minecraft tool #69, with some exciting news! Sorry for the obligatory meme section!

So, we all know what a BN does, what is capable is and how we use to behave. They know us for one or another reason.

Why wouldn't the queue proposed by ztrot and HR88 work? Because showing the amount of BNs that modded a map will most likely tell other people how much work that map needs and/or needed. Getting 40 BN mods will most likely tell another BN (who hasn't checked the map so far) the low quality of that beatmap in particular. If a map got ranked with only 2 BNs will most likely tell the community (in a majority) that X person barely needed any help from us. That's how things are working nowadays, believe it or not.

What Sonnyc said about the BN"G" not being a team is more than right. That was a mistake that should've never been done. Instead of asking for help some BNs prefer to do things by themselves and leaving that inquiry with them. As BNs, as I already mentioned, we have no kind of power whatsoever besides iconing maps. That's it, that's everything we can do. Is this what the staff wanted from the beginning? Then my apologies for this, in my opinion, it was not the greatest idea.

Reworking the Star Priority wouldn't help either. If any, why do we pay attention to that? Exactly, we should "pay more attention to maps with higer SP" because they have been getting more mods (or maybe they are more hype'd by the community) than the original map we wanted to mod. Star Priority and Kudos don't work in the way it should be intended. And what could be its purpose? I don't really have anything to say about this. Personally, I hate having such a system. A modder with 900 kudos should have more experience to someone with 200, right? In some cases this does not apply.
But I'm not here to talk about how bad the Kudos system is, so let's leave that aside.

My suggestion would be to open a global BN queue in which we give a proper explanation to new mappers on what they shouldn't be doing and/or how to fix their own disturbances. It'll most likely be a "I'm new, what should I do?" kind of queue. We shouldn't post our names in "imma mod this map!!!, hey hey!!". We should allow mappers with 0 ranked beatmaps and encourage them to keep on mapping by either suggesting what they should avoid doing in their own style or by just giving a proper mod. And let me highlight the word proper, because lately I've been many BNs are literally modding nothing but some new combos.



Why I'm suggesting this queue to be for mappers who don't have any ranked maps? Because experienced/well-known mappers will most likely get a BN check in less than a day. Because we already know they are safe, because we already know there are none to low chances of them to make big mistakes, because we already know their styles.
Someone like pishifat can get a ranked map in a very short period of time, whilst some other mappers who worked really hard and whose sets can be really, really decent might wait up to 2 years to get at least one BN to check their maps.

Would this require every single BN to take a look at it on a daily basis? Not at all. BNs who don't feel like helping new mappers because they just like to circlejerk and/or mod maps from only experienced mappers, shouldn't feel bad for not taking part of this. That being said, this queue should not add any kind of benefits for those who participate. They should feel (if anything) good about themselves for helping people that really need assistance.

I would, although, love to see everyone taking part of it at least once a month. Even if you have your own queue, let's make this BN one feel a bit different than the typical ones.

More suggestions that I would like to be discussed because I'm not sure how they should work.

1. You must be capable of giving an adequate reply for the mods you refuse. Being someone new should not mean you can refuse with a simple "no" or with a math problem to any mod at all. For those people who are unable to properly reply to a specific mod, they should be warned and/or penalized somehow by our queue in the future. No explanation for the mods you don't apply = no more mods.
   
2. Separate mods into different sections. With this I want to (if possible) create spoilerboxes in the main thread/post if X person's post was about Timing / Mod / Question type of request in order to maintain the queue more organized.
   
3. The mapset must be completed. Actually being very important, please do comment about this.
   
4. Post your own map. Should be obligatory, to my point of view.

Let's make it a draft. I will be editing with any ideas you guys might have. Let's, please, remember this is a project and a propostal.

Thank you all so much for reading until the very bottom, I really appreciate the initiative ztrot and HR88 had even if it wasn't received as they were expecting. Hope all of you can have a wonderful day and keep on working like you've always done, great job so far everyone!!

#MakeYuii-QATAgain

EDIT 1: Everyone can ask any kind of questions, regardless of the amount of ranked maps.
EDIT 2: Make this section a whole FORUM instead of one single THREAD.
EDIT 3: Someone mentioned a mentoring program. I'll keep this project in mind. Done!

this sounds like a great way to help newbie mappers improve or let them know where theyre at

yeah, i agree that it's important showing newer player what they should avoid. they are basically our future mapping generation

Yuii- wrote:

Example with a question

Stefan (let's take this as an example, please) is a really noobish mapper without ranked maps (let's remember... this is an example, read it as such) asks in the queue what he should do with one of his patterns: why he thinks it doesn't work and what it could be a solution, an alternative for it. Therefore, Okorin and Yuii- tell Stefan how it should be done (from their points of view) and why.

Always a pleasure to be an example.

From what I see around there probably even isn't a full fledged concept of what a "proper mod" is, since everyone checks what others do and tries to re-elaborate things on his/her own.
I wouldn't mind help making it but I'm surely not at that level yet, so whoever can would be great.

For the rest I have to agree.
I also had in mind some ideas to make good use of kudosu but it's nothing really decent yet so once I have the full idea I'll post it.

Ohhh! This is awesome!

But I don't agree with this:

"Because experienced/well-known mappers will most likely get a BN check in less than a day."

What about the mappers which have ranked only one beatmap and still have doubts regarding mapping? Or mappers who might not be as known as more experienced mappers, but still make maps that are of good enough quality to be ranked? They won't find a BN easily because they don't have the connections more famous mappers have.

It shouldn't be only filtered with people who have 0 ranked maps since there are people who still make their own mapsets and need assistance about something. Therefore, allowing any mapper to post their concerns won't discriminate the fact there are mappers which know how to map but still aren't as pro as the experienced mappers.

In the other hand, would it be possible to mark the solved questions with a mark as well as this forum? 5 So in this way the issues arisen would be more organized and can be easily archived to prioritize the other threads I guess.

I guess we can work together sometimes as a team while we still have our own way to get requests. \w/ Well done!

Edited the main post with your suggestion.

For those who aren't part of the BNG and still want to make any suggestions, feel free to leave me a forum message or contacting me via Discord.

Yuii- wrote:

Post your own map. Should be obligatory, to my point of view.

What happens if the mapper just did only 1 diff in his mapset when there are like 6 others GD ? and he just did Normal, for example.
I think you should reword it as "You must make more than 2 diffs, and the most difficult one"

Yuii- wrote:

Because experienced/well-known mappers will most likely get a BN check in less than a day.

No, even good mappers can't find BNs.
You're too optimistic.

Yuii- wrote:

Because we already know they are safe

Please don't generalize, even some very experienced mappers don't do pretty safe things and you already know it since you pushed forward some maps from experienced mappers, but they got DQed.

Yuii- wrote:

whilst some other mappers who worked really hard and whose sets can be really, really decent might wait up to 2 years to get at least one BN to check their maps.

Do you say that good mappers don't work really hard on their maps ? (according to what you said a few sentences before this one)

I was wondering if it could be a forum instead of a thread, because it could be very hard to know what questions/mods were already assisted without the need of looking it up to the requests' links, aside from there should be someone very active who's able to update the main post all the time everytime a request pops up or if it was already solved.

Changed that, Happy!! Thank you.

Sorry for the double post. Someone recommended something I really like and that's a mentoring program. I don't know how many of you agree with it and/or who have that amount of time to mentor someone, but keep this idea in mind, please!

YEZZZ! We need to call Zirox for that. He'd love it!!!

Mentoring was a thing in the past, at least we tried: t/307552

From my experience as one of the mentors participating it seems important to have a regular schedule with your mentee, otherwise the whole thing will drift apart as fast as it started.

hi feerum!

The idea is cool but there are some things I disagree with. Not every BN is good with people when it comes to teaching them, so they should rather help by modding with a lot of explanations, but would answer their questions eventually. Those who don't mind helping directly and actively might try mentoring.

What kinda bothers me is that everyone should participate at least once per month. I'm not saying it's not easy to throw one mod on a map from this queue. BNs however can do many things and can focus on different stuff. For example, some might focus on bubbled maps, some might focus on qualified maps, some on newbie maps, what is comfortable for them. What I mean is that everyone is still able to ask BNs for help, suggestions or explaining what they're doing wrong and most BNs are probably willing to do that and some even focus on newbie mappers, so enforcing modding something from the queue wouldn't be that fair.

Actually I'm not fully aware of how this Global BN queue would work since I've got an ambiguous image instead a clear example.

Still, if this will lead us to work more as an organized group (or a team), then I feel this going to the right direction! Maybe some beta phase to show how things would actually work will make stuffs more clear, and will be easier to spot which point needs more revision and improvement. (Such betas wouldn't harm anyone as I assume.)

To make this a global business for all BNs, setting an internal vision of ourselves as a BN seems to be more than necesary, as we've only got a rule for us what to do and what not to so far, instead of telling where those rules are leading us to. Currently, several BNs are having several different goals as their own instead heading a common goal all together. Some prefer lending a hand to new mappers. Some prefer checking old bubbles, some check qualified maps, some check assured good maps by well-known mappers, some check according to a personal queue, or some check by their own account etc. Making a general agreement among "all BN members" of our vision will make us organized, and can make us cooperate each other to achieve the same goal as a team.

As long as the goal gets setted, we will observe the current different actions from diverse BNs would eventually be one of the different approaches to achieve the goal. Some people might not prefer the "approach" by working in this global queue. For them, we can "assign" them a different role apart from this queue, while every member being some kind of a team.

I expect not "all" BNs would agree with this "approach" of the BN queue to achieve the BN vision. With that in mind, maybe a "global" bn queue consisted of all BNs would be a little unrealistic, but still it can work nicely along the members who agree with this "approach".

It's me again. ztrot told me he would read it a couple of days ago, so I am not really sure if he already did.

Let me explain what I have in mind for now: Making a complete separated forum for people to ask questions about mapping in which everyone will be able to ask specific questions about their maps, from "how can I improve this pattern" to "could I have a short analysis of my beatmap". Everyone will be able to help on the forum, of course, although only BNs and QATs will be able to mark the inquiry as solved once they have seen the map. Similar case to what the QAT does with the qualified section right now.

Would love to talk about this into more detail but I want ztrot or someone else to give this a try or something.

Thanks!