every GDer of mine accepts the clause 'i can make minor changes to your difficulty to answer simple mods or to polish your map'. Major changes are still through them, but for Mika and cheesiest, they naturally had some small errors here and there that I changed around to be more consistent. Clean up in one place, intentionally make the small error in the same part later on, etc.


SPINNERS SUCK

Bara- wrote:

I had no problem with the spread, seeing as Normal acts like an advanced diff, and Hard as a "Really Light Insane"

You should have renamed them properly, if that was the case.

where the hell did "advanced" come from anyway

do u prefer light Hyper

Shiirn wrote:

Mika's Normal provides changes in distance snap you normally don't see in a Normal. They play fine and fit the music quite well, but this is a point in its favor of being "harder than usual". As well, the density of clicks is capped out at around 1/2, but there are several points where there are 3/4 sliders onto a circle that encourage new players to use their second keys.

Right, I've got some free time and decided to look closely on what Normal can bring to the players and if there is any room to improvements. So what I catch after some playtests and review in editor.
provides changes in distance snap (c) - Yes. This is not what usually in current meta but can work really well for a beatmap spread and new techniques introduce if preformed well.
But I can't really tell that they plays fine (this is personal feeling ofc!), also I'm not really able to understand logic behind some of them, hopefully creator can clarify this a bit.
00:07:576 (3,1) - 2/1 pause from the weak point 00:08:319 () (vocal end, slider end) to the really strong point 00:09:062 () (hard beat, downbeat, finish, object start) emphasized with compressed spacing?
00:12:220 (1) - really strange spot to the spinner start, either misplaced and should start on more relevant to music 00:12:034 () or hit-object is missing on 00:12:034 ()
00:20:207 (1,1) - another compressed spacing on strong beat, right, consistent with the 1st one but still this kind of emphasize would work more authentic with extended spacing not compressed.
00:21:693 (3,1) - ^
00:23:551 (4,1) - and now you have pretty much the same case but with highly extended spacing.
00:24:666 (1,2) - now see, extended spacing on weak beat, it also belongs to 00:24:666 (1,2) - part in music so I don't see any reflection in music to make extended spacing - stack 00:25:223 (2,1) - pattern here.
00:28:009 (3,1) - this will be easily misread by this level players, see 00:22:436 (1,2) - how you used same overlaps with 1/4 just 6 seconds ago in the same music phase.
00:29:124 (3,4,1) - ^ can't really say that this is pretty much the same case, but borderline.
00:33:582 (5,1,2) - Personally I thinks this are minor changes in DS but may be worth mentioning.
00:46:214 (5,6) - now it's extended spacing to the strong beat, while you tend to use compressed?
and so on... again I'm not practically saying any spacing changes are bad for normal, no I think this technique should be used more often but unlike in hrad+ levels it must be more strictly\obviously reflect music and be more logical. Also I'm sorry that my post is missing how-to-change part, I decided to throw it off because I can't understand the core design behind this placements.

As per Sieg's request.

We've discussed the things in advance, the concerns seem valid.

So let me get this straight: You think it might be unfair to Normal level players to neglect Distance Snap a bit? I feel like people place far too much stock into just viewing the map via the editor without having any actual idea of how their map plays.

People focus so hard on mapping individual beats or layers or instruments and forget to map the entire track as a whole. The current modding scene focuses too heavily on consistency between particular sections where it truly does not matter, so you're able to get walls of text that say next to nothing and do nothing but look intimidating.


I'll go over the map later with Mikasa. Maybe make a few changes, rename the diff to "Advanced" or whatever the hell, then we can get back on track.

As I said, I'ts perfectly fine if you neglect (read as free-style placement, no practically logical) them a bit (up to some degree, let's say 20%). But it's not fine when you mess around with incocnsistent\randomly placed jumps-antiumps, "no, you must read approach here instead" changes for newbie players. Thanks for understanding, I'm glad to assist you or Mikasa if needed.

Sieg wrote:

Right, I've got some free time and decided to look closely on what Normal can bring to the players and if there is any room to improvements. So what I catch after some playtests and review in editor.
provides changes in distance snap (c) - Yes. This is not what usually in current meta but can work really well for a beatmap spread and new techniques introduce if preformed well.
But I can't really tell that they plays fine (this is personal feeling ofc!), also I'm not really able to understand logic behind some of them, hopefully creator can clarify this a bit.
00:07:576 (3,1) - 2/1 pause from the weak point 00:08:319 () (vocal end, slider end) to the really strong point 00:09:062 () (hard beat, downbeat, finish, object start) emphasized with compressed spacing? I have no idea what you're trying to say by "Emphasized". The stanza resets and the spacing is largely irrelevant. Having lower spacing doesn't particurally do anything, even at a Normal playlevel a 2/1 pause at 160bpm is long enough to where the exact spacing doesn't matter.
00:12:220 (1) - really strange spot to the spinner start, either misplaced and should start on more relevant to music 00:12:034 () or hit-object is missing on 00:12:034 () I don't really think this matters but it's something that can be changed.
00:20:207 (1,1) - another compressed spacing on strong beat, right, consistent with the 1st one but still this kind of emphasize would work more authentic with extended spacing not compressed.
00:21:693 (3,1) - ^ These are both minor stanza resets. they largely do nothing except reset the musical pattern.
00:23:551 (4,1) - and now you have pretty much the same case but with highly extended spacing. THIS PARTICULAR STANZA RESET, HOWEVER, RESETS THE ENTIRE CHORUS TO START OVER AGAIN. thus it is much more powerful, and should be mapped accordingly. And it is. The distance between 4 and 1 isn't altogether that large considering slider leniency either.
00:24:666 (1,2) - now see, extended spacing on weak beat, it also belongs to 00:24:666 (1,2) - part in music so I don't see any reflection in music to make extended spacing - stack 00:25:223 (2,1) - pattern here. Because this is the second iteration of the chorus, the rhythms are already in mind for even Normal players. The spacing is, again, largely irrelevant.

you can kind of see where i'm going here. But i'll discuss the map itself with mikasa and make some changes. I fully expected this DQ, so i'm not salty at all, but i feel it's part of my role to be a bit uppity about it for tradition's sake.

Shiirn wrote:

you can kind of see where i'm going here. But i'll discuss the map itself with mikasa and make some changes. I fully expected this DQ, so i'm not salty at all, but i feel it's part of my role to be a bit uppity about it for tradition's sake.

Has routing started a tradition?

"Shiirn can't rank any map without getting at least 5 DQ's beforehand."

u still owe me a mod > : (

A pattern with 1/2 rhythm should not have the same spacing (or very very similar spacing) to a pattern with 1/1 rhythm immediately after.

An example of this is 01:18:907 (1,2,3,1)

It doesn't quite make sense.. I feel that it is ok to deviate from the distance snap every now and then, but in this instance and in other sections of the map, it doesn't make sense and is quite frustrating and confusing for new players because it is seemingly random. If anything, in the example I linked, it should be spaced further to emphasize the downbeat if you're going to deviate from the distance snap at all. That's just what I'd like to say. Good luck re-qualifying! Fun set

After some discussion, the spinners have been changed to give 2/1 delay after finishing, as well as that one spinner starting in a more logical spot. Most of the spacing "issues" are very minor and fit perfectly fine into the map's rhythm structure. Minor stanza resets have lower spacing, major resets have higher spacing. We have smoothed out some of the more extreme cases of both.


My only remaining concern is whether to leave it labeled as "Normal" or to change it to "Advanced" or whatever the hell.

Well..
I'll or (what...)

Let's try again ^_^

Edit: Wait... Why is it in WIP?

Edit2: Ah whatever, let's hope it's fine (since it is when maps go for approval)

how high are you xD

it doesn't really matter where it is as qualifying will move it to the right place anyways

doesnt changing it to advanced just makes the spread weird (naming wise)?

who cares, it's all semantics in the end. Hard was nerfed a bit as well.

fair enough q;

ok

looks clean

This is the most cringe creators words you've come up with yet.

lo

>uploaded april 1st

troll mapset please dq

Tatsuyu wrote:

>uploaded april 1st

troll mapset please dq

no shitposting in my lobby