I just wanted to know what the community on osu thinks of transgender and non-gender binary (someone who does not identify as a "binary" gender, basically meaning they're not male or female, agender, bi-gender, genderfluid etc) people. This will probably be deleted in a week or so.
http://strawpoll.me/5728972
Answers are completely anonymous, so don't answer just to make friends.
And just to be safe, please do not pm me in game about my identity as it is my business and not your's.

cool sevry

cool beatmap, i hope it gets ranked

This poll is confusing to me. Like you thought of some possible stances and then randomly put them on a list without order or system.
its basically:

I support
idk but support
idc
idk but no support
no support for reason 1
no support for reason 2
no support for reason 3
transgender is bs


If you list reasons as to why you people don't support, shouldn't you also give people some choices as to why they support?
Are the 3 reasons all there is? (I could think of more..) Shouldn't you at least add an option that says "I oppose them for other reasons"?
What about mixed opinions?
Lastly, what is this order of your answer-options? Its a mess. I see no system in how you ordered them.

It's a lot of options that are basically either "Everyone should be pumped full of drugs and have life-changing surgery immediately without even a psychological examination!" or "LYNCH THE FAGGOTS"

And none of it addresses gender identity on a biological or social basis, it's purely about assessing reactions with no actual conversation. Either this person wants to fuel a persecution complex, or they're insecure in their own opinion. This is a shit poll and the person who made it really needs to grow up.

Theres actually a thread in General Discussion that I made regarding transgender people. It might be worth your time looking for that if you want a realistic opinion

As for the actual thing itself, ill answer here because its not an answer thats really just yes/no

Im still in the belief that gender is a social construct. We see men as being dominant because thats what society sees men to be. We imagine that women can be seductive and sexy while men are perverted and rapey because thats what society has stereotyped. Its like how prolle have the belief that African-Americans are thugs. theyre not, but thats what society has molded the group to stereotypically be like due to media and other shit (as well as having basis on common truths of the majority)

Therefore, i really dont see why people want to obsess over gender. Im more than a person, im Brian. Im a 20 year old biological male that acts on my own accordance. If i want to be feminine, i will be, and if I want to be masculine, I will be. Because the concept of gender is honestly not going to fix any issues you may have. Going from Paul to Pauline will still keep you in social boxes, just the boxes of a woman, not a man.

My skepticism of transgendered people has grown over the few months as one of my friends came out as transgender. She explained her reasonings and is now using other peoples money to get a sex change. This all happened, however, when she had been going theough a lot of stress, including coping with the death of her father in April. I seriously think she just sort of got into a stress-related desire to be something else, and the liberal college community she lived in had no idea that sometimes no is the right answer.

The only time ive been supportive of it is when the shits been happening since like childhood. I knew a girl (born guy) who had been unhappy with her gender ever since she was in elementary school, consistently through her life. That is a legitimate thing and worth her time to get her gender changed (shes also fucking rich as fuck so thats nice). Otherwise, i think its an incorrect solution to a much bigger provlem

Anything past transsexuality is the point where i just think its fucking retarded

Another. . . Thing at my school came out as genderflud. Shed always been super into the social justice shit for a while and now she decided to come out. So some days she is Emily, and other days she is Johannes. Its all based on the clothes shes wearing as well as how shes feeling, which honestly just proves my point that gender isnt something thats really able to stand as a legitimate describer of someone. Because some days i feel feminine or masculine, but it doesnt count enough to have to change EVERYTHINF about myaelf

Gotta go so cant type more but uhhhhh yeah

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1977-06254-001

Describes the cases of 2 patients (1 male and 1 female) whose requests for sex-change surgery represented crises in sexual identity and anxiety-masking symptoms. Brief psychotherapy enabled these patients to relinquish their belief in a surgical "cure." In evaluating such requests, the psychiatrist should consider the patient's total personality rather than focusing on the genuineness of the perceived gender disorder. Whatever the final decision, the opportunity for continued psychotherapy should be provided. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved)

It's a dangerous pitfall, and your friend might just be another victim.

This is about transgender people that have been showing symptoms since childhood, making their condition unlikely to be in the pitfall-category (e.g. a result of anxiety, stress, the desire to be special, identity-crisis, trauma, ...)

Usually we treat people whose perception doesn't align with reality as mentally ill.
Transgenders are one of the few exceptions to that rule. That is probably because theres no known way to "treat" their misalignment, without just fulfilling their wish and sending them to surgery. This practice seems like support of transgenderism, because after all we enable the patient to (sort of) assume the misaligned identity.
But lets not get confused here. Misaligned gender-identities are something that cause people pain, it is not something to be celebrated. Fulfilling their wish just happens to be the thing that works the best, but in its essence it is still a treatment - not a declaration of support for transgenderism as a phenomenon.

You don't support depression by prescribing Prozac, you support the people that suffer from it.
Likewise, by changing peoples gender (which is not an unproblematic process, and no perfect treatment - far from it), we don't support transgenderism. We support the people that suffer from it by giving the choice to fall back on this imperfect solution.

Why even pair nonbinaries and transgenders? They're wildly different things.

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

It's a lot of options that are basically either "Everyone should be pumped full of drugs and have life-changing surgery immediately without even a psychological examination!" or "LYNCH THE FAGGOTS"

And none of it addresses gender identity on a biological or social basis, it's purely about assessing reactions with no actual conversation. Either this person wants to fuel a persecution complex, or they're insecure in their own opinion. This is a shit poll and the person who made it really needs to grow up.

Yep. Progressive like to group people into ultra 'tolerant' people like them or 'LYNCH THE FAGGOTS, GAS THE TRANNIES, HEIL HITLER 1488' ' type people because it makes it easier to justify their position.

Reditum wrote:

Im still in the belief that gender is a social construct.

This dumb sentiment is the basis of the feminist ideology and REALLY needs to be put to rest. Of course if it was true, then that would mean that the only reason for men coming out on top in STEM and jobs and such was 'oppression' and 'misogyny'. But the fact is that gender is completely biological, different brain development, different hormones etc. all account for why men and women act differently. If you actually did some research this would be apparent educate yourself. You need to realise that humans are not a product of society, society is a product of humans. The actions of large demographics have nothing to do with them 'conforming to stereotypes', but that natural inclinations of the groups themselves.

Railey2 wrote:

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1977-06254-001

Describes the cases of 2 patients (1 male and 1 female) whose requests for sex-change surgery represented crises in sexual identity and anxiety-masking symptoms. Brief psychotherapy enabled these patients to relinquish their belief in a surgical "cure." In evaluating such requests, the psychiatrist should consider the patient's total personality rather than focusing on the genuineness of the perceived gender disorder. Whatever the final decision, the opportunity for continued psychotherapy should be provided. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved)

It's a dangerous pitfall, and your friend might just be another victim.

Very good point. I do believe that there are some legitimate trans people that are so because of birth abnormalities. But there are a whole lot of people who just jump on the bandwagon, for attention or power in their identity politics based social groups or whatever reason, and sometimes end up permanently damaging their bodies.

We need to do some more research on this, but we can't because in today's world feels reign supreme, and if you do something like question the legitimacy of someone's 'gender identity' you are a sexist transphobe shitlord.

B1rd wrote:

Reditum wrote:

Im still in the belief that gender is a social construct.

This dumb sentiment is the basis of the feminist ideology and REALLY needs to be put to rest. Of course if it was true, then that would mean that the only reason for men coming out on top in STEM and jobs and such was 'oppression' and 'misogyny'. But the fact is that gender is completely biological, different brain development, different hormones etc. all account for why men and women act differently. If you actually did some research this would be apparent educate yourself. You need to realise that humans are not a product of society, society is a product of humans. The actions of large demographics have nothing to do with them 'conforming to stereotypes', but that natural inclinations of the groups themselves.

sex is biological. Gender is a social construct

also, why can't both be true? Society is a product of humans and humans are a product of society. You act as if the two are mutually exclusive, which they are not.

If the internet itself collectively loses its mind over such a subject, off-topic should be just the place to have a healthy discussion about it right

Jimmy-Rustler wrote:

cool beatmap, i hope it gets ranked

i already declare this the best post in the thread because i don't think anything else will top it

Fuck you, don't bring Tumblr to this place. There are enough Tumblr-like places around the net.

Mr Color wrote:

If the internet itself collectively loses its mind over such a subject, off-topic should be just the place to have a healthy discussion about it right

Jimmy-Rustler wrote:

cool beatmap, i hope it gets ranked

i already declare this the best post in the thread because i don't think anything else will top it

someone understands me inside

Already made this thread
this should be in surveys
never repost things

Ok, I'm going to reply to some of these comments because some of them actually have good points and some are just people trying to dick-roll opinions on people.

ahsoka08 wrote:

Already made this thread
this should be in surveys
never repost things

Survey's caption does say "questions no one cares about," and I can tell you right now there are actually people that care about this.

Aurani wrote:

Fuck you, don't bring Tumblr to this place. There are enough Tumblr-like places around the net.

So, because I wish to know the osu! community's level of support for people who aren't cisgender, I'm from tumblr? I guess any woman who wants equality for genders but doesn't know the term egalitarian and uses feminist makes them a man hating tumblr freak too?

Reditum wrote:

My skepticism of transgendered people has grown over the few months as one of my friends came out as transgender.

First, just because someone is going through stress and comes out as lgbtq+ makes them a possible fake? A load of stress like the death of a parent can trigger a mental breakdown, which may have made her come out before she was ready.

Reditum wrote:

The only time ive been supportive of it is when the shits been happening since like childhood.

Also, some transgender people WANT to be in the boxes of gender. They don't want to be in the male box, so they want to be in the female box. They don't want a third box to be created.

Then again, none of us know what each other has been through, so being a complete ass over a goddamn poll seems a little pointless. But, also making the poll is much more pointless.

What's with the urge to label things that aren't completely stereotypical
I'm not going to give a shit if I don't need to

way to ignore my post though

Specky wrote:

So, because I wish to know the osu! community's level of support for people who aren't cisgender, I'm from tumblr? I guess any woman who wants equality for genders but doesn't know the term egalitarian and uses feminist makes them a man hating tumblr freak too?

This sort of feces-laced kind of reply is exactly why I said what I said.

I don't care if you identify yourself as a 12-year old fucking toaster with a 78% vagina and 22% chip, but keep it to yourself. Who the fuck cares how many of those mongrels there are? What do you gain from it other than bringing cancer here with the mere mentioning of it?
If you truly wanted to know how many of those kind of people there are, you would've just participated in the various forum activities, gotten to know people and you would've had a quite accurate picture of how many there are. Yes, it takes quite a few years to do it, but I know why you came here - your entire goal was to subliminally spark a discussion similar to those happening on Tumblr and similar places just because you're one of them (it's pretty damn obvious from your first post where you cower like a chicken and tell people to not judge you for who you are - Jesus Christ that made me cringe beyond belief) and feel the need to do it like some kind of pathological mutt.

Yoeri wrote:

What's with the urge to label things that aren't completely stereotypical
I'm not going to give a shit if I don't need to

are you asking what the point of labels is? :I

Some

Labels make communication 500% easier, because listing traits (e.g. "the people that match criteria 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7") can be simplified immensely by just introducing a new word for it (a label). If Aurani calls someone a tumblr-feminazi whore, this is a lot easier than describing everything this label stands for, without using the label as part of the description.

If by easier you mean more shallow and increasingly meaningless

Yoeri wrote:

If by easier you mean more shallow and increasingly meaningless

no thats not what I said. Thats not what I said at all. If discussions are shallow and meaningless, it is because you misuse labels as a tool. Not because that tool is useless.
Discussions become meaningless when people have different definitions of labels, but fail to realize this because they are stuck in their own mind and don't listen to anything the other one is saying.
Discussions become shallow when the thought process, in which the labels you use are embedded, is shallow.

Both would be your fault, not the fault of labels.

"Label" is a label too by the way. You use a label to complain about labels.

Trans-gender: I take pity on them but I try to keep my distance nonetheless. The Trans-genders I'm referring to are the 'real' ones that were born with a brain defect. Not gay faggots that want to be labeled something. Before I was ignorant and phobic to Trans people but after speaking with one from this site and learning a lot more, my mind started to change.
Binarywhatchamacallit: Losers. No need to complicate things and label yourself just to make yourself feel unique.

Railey2 wrote:

"Label" is a label too by the way. You use a label to complain about labels.

The entire universe is going to collapse onto itself now, thanks

Specky wrote:

Ok, I'm going to reply to some of these comments because some of them actually have good points and some are just people trying to dick-roll opinions on people.

ahsoka08 wrote:

Already made this thread
this should be in surveys
never repost things

Survey's caption does say "questions no one cares about," and I can tell you right now there are actually people that care about this.

Aurani wrote:

Fuck you, don't bring Tumblr to this place. There are enough Tumblr-like places around the net.

So, because I wish to know the osu! community's level of support for people who aren't cisgender, I'm from tumblr? I guess any woman who wants equality for genders but doesn't know the term egalitarian and uses feminist makes them a man hating tumblr freak too?

Reditum wrote:

My skepticism of transgendered people has grown over the few months as one of my friends came out as transgender.

First, just because someone is going through stress and comes out as lgbtq+ makes them a possible fake? A load of stress like the death of a parent can trigger a mental breakdown, which may have made her come out before she was ready.

Reditum wrote:

The only time ive been supportive of it is when the shits been happening since like childhood.

Also, some transgender people WANT to be in the boxes of gender. They don't want to be in the male box, so they want to be in the female box. They don't want a third box to be created.

Then again, none of us know what each other has been through, so being a complete ass over a goddamn poll seems a little pointless. But, also making the poll is much more pointless.

Replying just in numbers based on quotes because fuck mobile

1) ITS A JOOOOOOKE. HAHAHAHAHAH. ITS FUNNY FUNNY!!!! Its like how off-topic is "for the not so logical discussions" on the forum. Its silly.

2) meh idc about this one lol i wont comment on it

3) So in context to my post that just doesnt make any sense. Youre making it sound like shes mentally insane, lmfao. What im saying is that she showed no signs of being uncomfortable with her gender at all, as far as I was aware, and all of a sudden desired to be a woman after the death of her father. Im not immediately saying like "OH SHES A FAKE", but i have to be suspicious about it and not glorify it because its a very real possibility. Also, im not sure what you meant by "before she was ready". She had an entire plan to come out to the school on a certain day, and had been going to counseling all throughbthe summer. Regardless of if i believe in the legitimacy, she very well was not impulsively coming out.

4) No, youre getting me wrong. HAVE NO BOX. I fucking hate the boxes. Boxes are why we have all of this genderfluid/agender/bigender/demigender/etc shit. I can see why people glorify boxes, but tbh its dumb. Because as I said, not every box is perfect. During my senior year of high school, i wanted to be a woman, because it fufilled what i needed at the time. But looking back on it, being in that box also would have created other issues had i gone through with it.

Just out of curiosity, Reditum. Was your desire to be a woman comparable to this? And if it was, do you think that this is somewhat comparable to teenagers following subcultures?

From my current understanding, both are forms of identity-crisis. Teenagers, in their efforts to find themselves, borrow a new social identity from subcultures. The more emphasized and visible this new identity is, the better. After all, because identity is so important to them, their "success" must be openly visible, shared with the world, for everyone to see. (The most prevalent example where I grew up was probably the emo-subculture.)

In other words, the identity-crisis is resolved by abandoning the current identity (which they aren't comfortable with, because they don't understand themselves as of yet, or.. for other reasons), and assuming a new fake-identity that also comes equipped with rules and ideology that are easier to understand than real identities.
Of course, this is only a temporary solution. It's not a real identity, it's fake and superficial. So most of them shift back to their normal (still not understood) self, or they pick up the next subculture, -> "go through phases."


This method of resolving the issue is defined by the subject looking outwards to find a new identity. The structures for them are already in place most of the times. Subcultures for confused teens are widespread, and with the internet its even easier to get into them nowadays.


What people with gender-issues go through is interesting. I am unsure if it is similar, as in: Transgenderism as a subculture. I wouldn't be surprised if some teens read about transgendered people online and assume that as their new identity to resolve their identity-crisis.

But there is another possibility, I think. What if they have a completely different approach. What if the teenagers find to transgenderism not through looking outwards (transgenderism as subculture), but through looking inwards? They would do so in a particularly tragic way that doesn't lead them to find their identities and consecutively resolve the conflict naturally. I don't know how that would look like, but maybe you can share your perspective here.


Tl;dr: Thoughts that can be compressed in one line usually aren't that interesting

I think what it was was me being fairly impressionable as well as emotional when i was younger.

I sort of had been going through streasful times with worrying about college, getting turned down by a girl i loved, going through a shit relationship, and finding solace in the furry community which was primarily homosexual around the people i was with. I was really submissive and really shy, which caused me great stress because i didnt have a safe place to express tjhat. I felt more aligned with female roles, primarily the social objectfication of them. I was planning on coming out near the end of my senior year, but i didnt feel comfortable.

As i spent the past 3 years after that discovering, i figured out that it wasnt what would have solved the problem. My problem wqs moreso with creating social supports that werent so judgemental, so i could express myself without fear of ridicule. Plus i did some self thinking and realized that what i wanted to be wasnt a woman, but rather just myself.

Reditum wrote:

I think what it was was me being fairly impressionable as well as emotional when i was younger.

I sort of had been going through stressful times with worrying about college, getting turned down by a girl i loved, going through a shit relationship, and finding solace in the furry community which was primarily homosexual around the people i was with. I was really submissive and really shy, which caused me great stress because i didnt have a safe place to express that. I felt more aligned with female roles, primarily the social objectification of them. I was planning on coming out near the end of my senior year, but i didnt feel comfortable.

As i spent the past 3 years after that discovering, i figured out that it wasnt what would have solved the problem. My problem was more so with creating social supports that werent so judgmental, so i could express myself without fear of ridicule. Plus i did some self thinking and realized that what i wanted to be wasnt a woman, but rather just myself.

yay for naturally resolved identity-crisis. How are your experiences with the transgender subculture, if you've ever made contact? Did you have contact to like-minded people?

Also, I noticed that many of the phases that teens go through are completely random and just get picked up because they are accessible. This doesn't seem to be the case here, which could support my guess that this method of resolving identity-crisis comes from the subject looking inwards instead of outwards.

I still have no idea why there are a lot of transgender related topics appearing on the net lately.

Maybe I should just lurk moar, but from what I've seen this seems to be a first world problem. In this third world country I live in we don't have daily cases of teenagers posting on tumblr about their gender identity or coming out at school. One could argue because this country sucks and still hold values from 6th century or earlier, but I'm not here to debate on that.

Note that I'm not saying there are no transgender in third world countries. I've lived around one since I was born, and have no problems with it whatsoever.

I myself frequently said things like, "I want to be a girl" because it's more acceptable for girls to like cute things (and I like cute things), but I'm pretty sure you're all smart enough to understand that's not because I seriously consider becoming a girl. Are people going to tell me I'm a bad person now because I don't think of the guys who really want to become a girl when saying that?

Personally, I'm fine with transgenders, but for the sake of every moe angels please don't use it to gain attention for yourself. Moe angels don't like attention seekers. You don't want to make the moe angels angry.