The title says it all, we'll be talking about the Widescreen Support checkbox.
As you might have noticed if you're mapping or modding, it is common practice to ask to uncheck it when it's not in usage (as a fresh new map sometimes has it checked by default), that is for nearly every map. A question I kept asking myself for so long but how is to be asked: Why do we ask this?

The checkbox doesn't really tell us in the setup panel that it is meant for storyboards only - that is every single map not using SB is not influenced at all by it. There's no save in the .osu file at all (a change from 1 to 0 consumes/liberates 0B in disk space). I can't think of anything else as I think I've said everything surrounding it.

Another question is: "Is this common practice an untold rule?" I'll let you answer and discuss about it - I hope we get everything cleared about this infamous checkbox, whether it is supposed to be unticked at all costs or if it is just something that was arbitrary.

Agreed. It started being annoying getting told this by every modder (even though I DID NOT check it, it checks by itself), but I ended up doing the same on my mods. SHAME ON ME

I do it on mods only when it is inconsistent, because I saw BNs popping bubbles over this some time ago. However, we should get more info about whether it will have more future usages (for example if it letterbox 4:3 background/video nonetheless) or whether it is going to stay same in future. If we would know this, it would prevent people from asking for this, but as long as we don't know whether this will ever change, we cannot judge whether it will be good for something if we tell mappers now.

My opinion is that this could be solved by disabling mappers to manipulate with widescreen support unless the SB is available, that would imo work, because nobody would request it for no reason. But currently, it seems like letting it checked or unchecked is not changing anything, so only future can tell us whether to tick or untick it.

This sounds less like a rule change and more like a "please change the editor to default have unchecked widescreen support." so this kind of inconsistencies don't happen, similar to the threads wanting countdown and letterboxing turned off by default.

Anyways, it's mostly done like this because it's unneccesary. It's like when people used to mod green lines. It's moreso for "only the stuff that's needed is included"

However, if people are popping bubbles over that kind of shit, that's fucking retarded and honestly it shows that they don't have a clue what they're doing. Bubble pops should only be done on maps with a large amount of issues, or maps with unrankable issues, because they need additional checks before being ranked.

As an extention of this, I think there should be some discussion regarding "unused countdowns" and "unused letterbox".

All of those do not affect whether it's on or off when they are not used. Personally a mod for that felt redundant even more than asking the mapper to remove an unused greenline. The only case the modder asking to touch such options will be valid when they are in actual use or when their settings are inconsistent.

EDIT : Actually after thinking once more, setting inconsistency isn't even necessary mentioning if it has no affect.

Sonnyc wrote:

As an extention of this, I think there should be some discussion regarding "unused countdowns" and "unused letterbox".

All of those do not affect whether it's on or off when they are not used. Personally a mod for that felt redundant even more than asking the mapper to remove an unused greenline. The only case the modder asking to touch such options will be valid when they are in actual use or when their settings are inconsistent.

EDIT : Actually after thinking once more, setting inconsistency isn't even necessary mentioning if it has no affect.

However, unused greenlines DO affect the filesize, since it's an added line that it's not being used for anything. Yes, a line of some numbers and commas may not make much difference but it still does, and if you multiply that by millions it starts to get heavy!

That's why I wrote 'even more' lol
Nearly something like removing an unused .osb, which whatever affects the filesize.

Raiden wrote:

Sonnyc wrote:

As an extention of this, I think there should be some discussion regarding "unused countdowns" and "unused letterbox".

All of those do not affect whether it's on or off when they are not used. Personally a mod for that felt redundant even more than asking the mapper to remove an unused greenline. The only case the modder asking to touch such options will be valid when they are in actual use or when their settings are inconsistent.

EDIT : Actually after thinking once more, setting inconsistency isn't even necessary mentioning if it has no affect.

However, unused greenlines DO affect the filesize, since it's an added line that it's not being used for anything. Yes, a line of some numbers and commas may not make much difference but it still does, and if you multiply that by millions it starts to get heavy!

You realize unused green lines are no more than tens of bytes, right? Multiplying by however many thousands of maps you have is still nothing.

As a storyboarder, I personally prefer the widescreen support being on as default and not be turned off through mods. I usually have to create my own storyboarding difficulty when storyboarding to avoid the flashing "Update to latest version" button to pop up whenever I check the widescreen support to storyboard the map.




This also makes it difficult to keep up with the status of the map. I wouldn't know if the beatmap changed because it'll be asking me to update every time, and this can be fatal if you have some storyboard effects that goes along with the beatmap (see 1, 2, 3).

Since this doesn't make any difference mapping wise, please keep it on x_x. Makes our lives way easier.

Koinuri, but this is highly subjective. Some SBers might prefer non-widescreen, so should we force mappers to untick widescreen, because there are these people? We need a real reason if this should be a rule.

Well, according to polls and data collected from many places (such as this random first link in google), 16:9 screen is the most widely used. Great majority of the osu beatmaps also use 1366x768 image as its background. Additionally, in this month, 4 widescreen storyboards have been qualified as far as I know (1, 2, 3, 4 if we include disqualification, and maybe 5 assuming I finish on time) compared to 1 4:3 storyboard (1). Considering DJNightmare usually storyboards in wide screen (1, 2, 3, etc.) and the recent non-widescreen storyboard is simply because of the map's bg, it is safe to assume that large proportion of osu players prefer wide screen storyboards over the 4:3 storyboards. And I believe the default/preferred setting should be something majority want.

But you still don't say the point. If you want to experiment with storyboard on qualified/ranked beatmaps, then why do you care about it prompting an update. You are editing beatmap which is ready to play. As for a ranking criteria, this would be really pointless because it only does have impact on those who will eventually do after-rank changes to it.

My point when I brought out those ranked storyboards is that widescreen support is used more than non-widescreen support option, yet we encourage modders to favor non-widescreen when modding (aka "please tick off widescreen because you're not storyboarding!" mods). If we're going to be enforcing something, why not enforce something a lot of people use, instead of something the very small minority use?

Always being prompted to update can become a big issue for us storyboarders because we can't tell whether the map is up to date or not. Someone can make a storyboard that follows hitcircles and sliders (see my first post for example). Another thing that can happen is that the spinners can block some of the element. If the map changes, we might have to adjust the storyboard to make everything perfect again.

Keeping up with how the map is, is important in storyboarding, but it's hard to be up to date if osu always tell you to update (even though all you did was turn on the widescreen support to storyboard.) This is not an issue when you're storyboarding your own map, but you have no control over what mappers do to their map if you're simply taking requests for them.

A rule/guideline to control this widescreen support is needed because it can cause problems. I suggest something like this in guideline (someone else can probably word this better):
or at least stop the modders from automatically modding to remove it.

note: I'm obviously talking about storyboarding something that's still not ranked. Maps change all the time through modding. I'm not experimenting with maps that are ranked. I take requests from mappers to storyboard for them so they'll have nice storyboard to go with their soon-to-be-ranked map...

I hope it's clear enough now.

what the fuck are you guys talking about even

Like, I seriously don't get what that has to do with the topic at hand.

The topic at hand is "what do we do with the widescreen button on maps that do not have storyboards.", since there is no clear ruling (Although generally the ruling seems to be to turn it off, but the topic is asking if that is a big deal, and if it is worth things like bubble pops)

and now you guys are talking about randomly "oh well i have to update and its hard because turning off something is hard and I can't save back-ups" or something and it's totally not what the thread started off with. If you want to discuss that, make your own thread, but please stop hijacking threads.

I'm not hijacking threads but ok...


to me it's pretty obvious option #1 is the best choice already but:


I guess I can rewrite my original arguments too.



I thought you guys can connect the dots if I just shared the reasoning from storyboarder's point of view

is it still irrelevant

You still dont make any sense in this particular subject.

These are for maps that dont have storyboards at all. If a map has a storyboard, then that is up to the mapper/storyboarder to have it turned on/off. Even if its WIP. If you plan on having it added later, then adjust it when its added. I dont see why youre going off on "oh well when you have to update witha SB" because the subject of this post is literally what to do when there ISNT one present at the time of ranking.

However, going off your point, while i agree that leaving it on since its the default would probably be easier, since nothing much is affected. However, itd be much more effective if the option simply just wasnt available if there is no storyboard, hence why i said earlier that this might just work better as a feature request to gave it locked unless an .osb or storyboarding elements in the .osu is present

@Koinuri

This thread is related to mods that suggest "turn off widescreen support since there is NO STORYBOARD AT ALL" which is practically useless.
You'll know as a storyboarder that whether turning on or off doesn't really matter the beatmap if there is NO STORYBOARD AT ALL.

◾What if people suddenly decides to request a storyboard 3 months in the modding process?
◾What if storyboards are still incomplete and mapper doesn't have any mention of storyboard until the storyboard is done?

Most situations will have a "SB WIP" in the beatmap description. Even if it's not mentioned, the storyboard will be completed at a certain period, then the BNs nominating the mapset will do a final check if the widescreen support setting fits the storyboard or not. The cases you stated are the ones that we call maps that HAVE A STORYBOARD, and those are not the ones this thread is focusing on.

Back to your point, which seems as "instead of asking mappers to turn off the widescreen support, lets ask mappers to turn it on instead!" (as long as I understood), I'd like to say once more that a discussion whether to turn the option on or off is not constructive since both cases never affect the mapset with no storyboard.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss if we should 'continue' this common, but a meaningless practice. Not a place to discuss 'what' meaningless option should we select. What you are saying is meaningful only when a storyboard exists, and that's what most modders already know.

And why can't we base that ranking decision on this little fact that the storyboarders will have easier time? What's the difference between general modding process and the moment it gets ranked? I don't see why you would suddenly change from recommending the widescreen on for possible future storyboards in the beginning to suddenly "off or unrank" mindset as soon as it's moving forward.

Nothing is unrankable if there are no storyboard. We can just left the setting inconsistent or whatever we want to. Just that mappers are annoyed with countless mods regarding widescreen support while it doesn't affect them at all.

Also what "possible future storyboards" are you talking about? Are you planning to storyboard ranked beatmaps or something?

That was replying to Reditum.

Even if it's not mentioned, the storyboard will be completed at a certain period, then the BNs nominating the mapset will do a final check if the widescreen support setting fits the storyboard or not

I give up. I'm just going to say wrong setting makes storyboarding more difficult.

---

I know this is about maps without storyboards. But this is also about that "pls untick widescreen if no sb" mod, which can happen at ANY point of modding process. It is not only meaningless, but harmful from storyboarder's point of view. Since it can happen at any point in the modding process, it has potential to harm future storyboards, even if there were no storyboard at the point of modding. I was affected by this in ALL of my storyboards so you can't really tell me it's a rare thing.

And what I'm trying to suggest solves all the problem listed here. BN popping because inconsistent? It's harder to be inconsistent once people learn to never touch it because it's on by default. 100 mods telling you to turn off widescreen support is annoying? You can't possibly forget to turn it on because it's on by default. And finally, you make storyboarders happier. What's wrong with my suggestion to encourage everyone (yes, this means people who are mapping stuff that doesn't have any storyboards too) to leave the widescreen support button on and never touching it?

Well, as a storyboarder, I can pretty much tell this does not harm anything, make your own map if you want to experiment or deal with it, and if you want to make SB for someone, tell him to tick that widescreen support, it's not that difficult.

-[Koinuri] wrote:

What if we get some new widescreen support feature in the future? It's a very general option, I wouldn't be surprised if peppy randomly adds a new feature related to it.

As you might have noticed, I did not say forcing enabled or disabled widescreen support is good, I don't agree with forcing widescreen and I don't agree with forcing non-widescreen. We can only judge what is right based on what is widescreen support going to include in future that afflicts gameplay, not mappers or storyboarders - Maps are meant to be played, that's the priority. Your own creativity should either be used on your stuff or on other's stuff, but deal with inconsistencies.

For example, if we in future know that non-widescreen settings will not resize the background over whole screen when it's 4:3, but will add those borders as in storyboard, I would force the rule to use it if background is 4:3 and not use it if it is widescreen ratio, because it is tbh ugly to see every pixel of the background - it is important because it afflicts how the map will look after qualification. But as long as we don't know whether it is gonna change, we cannot correctly judge whether using it is wrong or not. We don't really map the maps to be changed by mappers/storyboarders. //This meant, widescreen support is more like extension, the storyboard should anyway work on 4:3 well, but many people will argument with "16:9 is most used, we don't need non-widescreen users to experience nice storyboard, just force them to buy different monitor or swap to different resolution".

tl;dr
1. Make own map for storyboarding or make SBs where requested to - mappers will gladly enable the widescreen support.
2. Deciding what is more correct is impossible at current point, because we don't know what future updates will include and how it will change widescreen support.
3. Your opinion is still very subjective. Also many people like making 16:9 storyboards and forget of 4:3 users completely - Mostly storyboarders will use high quality images that are widescreen, because it is somewhat elegant and professional, but players might play with 4:3, because it might be easier for them to hit etc. These users then experience wrong optimization for 4:3 resolution - I have seen many lyrics SBs which had those lyrics into 16:9 area, which in general makes these objects partially hidden for 4:3 users - Be aware that if 16:9 monitors are most commonly used does not mean people play on fullscreen and with that widescreen resolution.

Too much irrelevant and subjective things are being discussed here. We shouldn't consider it will be uncomfortable for those, who make SBs after qualification, players are the priority. To avoid changes destroying some maps, I would allow usage of both, not forcing one, but they should be at least consistent between diffs, so if there are some features for widescreen or non-widescreen added, at least the difficulty will look same in all diffs if the settings are consistent.

The fact that you still consider me someone who makes storyboard after qualification just for a little fun experiment is insulting. A quick look in my profile would've told you that I do get requests from many other mappers. I've been storyboarding since the day this storyboard was posted in the logs by peppy (around February last year?), and my first ranked storyboard is almost a year old. The "you can ask mappers to to turn it on" argument isn't even that great because you're pretty much telling us to turn the widescreen off from the default on state, then turn it back on when the storyboard come. It's highly inefficient. Why can't we just leave it on? What do you even do with the widescreen being off without storyboards?

I'm not going to bother explaining the wrong widescreen thing again because English isn't my native language and clearly nobody understands me.

From what you said, it seemed like you experiment on maps after they are qualified - otherwise turning it on by mapper wouldn't be a problem. - I don't know what seemed insulting to you, I didn't say you make bad storyboards or that you do "little fun experiments", I just said nobody will force enabling this option for those who make experimental post-qualification storyboard because you said it that it seemed like you do this.

"you're pretty much telling us to turn the widescreen off from the default on state, then turn it back on when the storyboard come. It's highly inefficient. Why can't we just leave it on? What do you even do with the widescreen being off without storyboards?"

Huh? I said forcing any of these are insensible and that it depends on what will the widescreen support do in future, so now I would just stick it to pure consistency if it does have to be, but forcing certain one will be wrong unless we have special technical purpose, it does have to afflict something in gameplay, otherwise forcing it is insensible, no matter what anyone is going to do to the map. I don't see any reason for forcing one by default because there is no real reason instead of, as far as I saw, personal problems related to that.

And I also don't see why updating maps should ruin your storyboard, only thing it will change is the widescreen support if the mapper is so lazy to update it. I would like to understand you, but I cannot see you counter-argument in any way, so the problem is here. We should better complain about this in IRC so we don't spam here unnecessarily.

I don't see the problem here.

Is it really that hard and such a big of a deal to just go into the settings to turn it off? With non-SB maps it isn't unrankable to have it enabled, consistent throughout the diffs or not, anyways.

Ok, I'll try again. Now with pictures.





So I'm sure most knows this already. Problem starts when you storyboard:





This is why it is important for storyboarders to be up to date. And it's difficult to do so when the update button is flashing all the time.

PLEASE MAKE A SEPARATE THREAD REGARDING THIS.

IF A MAPPER IS PLANNING ON HAVING A STORYBOARD, MAKE SURE THEY TURN ON WIDESCREEN SUPPORT IF THE STORYBOARDER ASKS.

IF A MODDER SAYS TO TURN IT OFF, THE MAPPER SHOULD SAY "I AM GOING TO GET A STORYBOARD"

PROBLEM SOLVED


If youre having trouble knowing if a mapper is making changes, or if an update is just requiring storyboard options, check on the map thread, and itll have a "last update" section.

And if the mapper makes changes like that, they should really contact you about it

BUT I STILL THINK YOURE NOT GETTING THE FACT THAT THE MAPS IN QUESTION LITERALLY DO NOT PLAN ON HAVING STORYBOARDS ADDED.

Ill bug a QAT to get this dicussion back on track when I get home from work (in about 4 hours)

_Gezo_ wrote:

The title says it all, we'll be talking about the Widescreen Support checkbox.
As you might have noticed if you're mapping or modding, it is common practice to ask to uncheck it when it's not in usage (as a fresh new map sometimes has it checked by default), that is for nearly every map. A question I kept asking myself for so long but how is to be asked: Why do we ask this?

The checkbox doesn't really tell us in the setup panel that it is meant for storyboards only - that is every single map not using SB is not influenced at all by it. There's no save in the .osu file at all (a change from 1 to 0 consumes/liberates 0B in disk space). I can't think of anything else as I think I've said everything surrounding it.

Another question is: "Is this common practice an untold rule?" I'll let you answer and discuss about it - I hope we get everything cleared about this infamous checkbox, whether it is supposed to be unticked at all costs or if it is just something that was arbitrary.

There is no gameplay issue whether this option is checked on or off on a mapset with no .osb that I can see with standard mode after a quick check. Do other game modes have issues if this option is toggled on/off regardless of .osb status? If not, this practice seems rather frivolous.

If a rule really needs to be drafted for this, it would be something along the lines of this:

Canking Riteria wrote:

If you have the same storyboard across maps in your mapset, make sure the widescreen toggle is the same. Maps that do not have a storyboard, or have an alternate storyboard that does not have the same resolution requirement do not need the same toggle.

ya srsly modders that point out widescreen support on maps without sb just couldn't find anything else and needed to add fluff to their mod

A question
In maps w/o SB, does they need to be consistent?
AutoMod lists it as 'error' but I'm not sure if it's indeed unrankable

Baraatje123 wrote:

A question
In maps w/o SB, does they need to be consistent?
AutoMod lists it as 'error' but I'm not sure if it's indeed unrankable

They don't need to. In future it might be, IF disabling/enabling widescreen support would have some additional feature.

its not unrankable to get it wrong, really no point on unranking something for something that doesnt affect the map at all
since u guys seemed to be confused abot this, heres a solution:
it doesnt matter

but keep it consistent

With the change of how the Ranking Criteria Subforum works from now on, topics like these are obsolete.