This might sound a little confusing, but let's give some maps for example
For references, these are all OSTs from Pokémon

Go Ichinose - Magma Dan Toujou!
This is a map of mine
The Artist is Japanese
The Title is the romanization of the Japanese
Japanese source, english name of game in tags
Bubbled, but selfpopped for slight update
Meta-data was given by Gamu

Go Ichinose - Encounter! (psychic)
Another map of mine
Artist is japanese
Title is something different then Japanese, it's not the romanization
The japanese title is as title, and then the English name (not Romaji) is at title
Source is the English game
Japanese name if the game isn't in tags
Ranked


Both sound tracks of the same game, yet still completely different metadata

Also
Junichi Masuda - masara Town no theme
Map by [ Space ]
Artist is japanese
Title is Japanese + Romanization (Pallet town is Masara town)
Source is the English name of the game
Japanese name of the game is in tags
Ranked

So we have 3 different scenarios, while in my opinion there should be only one

They all have Japanese artist
All have japanese title, except the romanized verion is different; some use a translation, some use romaji, other use something else, as with Encounter! psychic, as that's what the song is called in English
Source, as the game came out in both Japan and the rest of the world, both are technically correct. Still, I think Japanese source should be better, and followed
The other one also should go into tags

Okay, what are you opinions about this
How would you say it's best to clarify this?
Perhaps, you can use the following format

Artist
Artist romanized
Title
Title romanized
Source
Tags

How would you fill these?
I think there should be a rule saying which should be followed, as it's currently rather confusing
If you think this should be a new rule, I'd say we should first wait in what the best meta-data would be, so that we can make in into a new rule afterwards

I think we could stick to something like this:


That means, if you are mapping Let it Go from Frozen.

English
Artist: Idina Menzel
Romanized: Idina Menzel
Title: Let it Go
Romanized: Let it Go
Source: Frozen

Japanese
Artist: 松たか子
Romanized: Matsu Takako
Title: Let it go~ありのままで
Romanized: Let it go~Ari no mama de
Source: アナと雪の女王

But if there is a song which is not changed after it being shown in translated version, you obviously stick to the original, no matter whether it was in other versions, if it is same, original does have the credits.

But how about video game OST?
They have same artist, but romanization can be seen as translation (first example) or non-romanized-->Romaji (2nd example)

It is same about video games. Is the song changed in translated version? No? Use original. If yes, use translate name. Original should always refer to original, translations do not have anything to do with the song itself if the song is not changed.

But what is the Original?
The Japanese one?
The English one?
They all got released on the same day, all have same artist, but different title

Then for that you have to check official source/soundtrack case. But guess what - Japanese is original, because the source is made by Japanese guys.

baraatje123 wrote:

But what is the Original?
The Japanese one?
The English one?
They all got released on the same day, all have same artist, but different title

If there's an official translation for the title, both untranslated and translated are correct. Just be sure you're consistent.

DakeDekaane wrote:

baraatje123 wrote:

But what is the Original?
The Japanese one?
The English one?
They all got released on the same day, all have same artist, but different title

If there's an official translation for the title, both untranslated and translated are correct. Just be sure you're consistent.

Well yes, if original language of game is showing both translated and normal title, then sure both are correct. But if there are two versions of game, one translated for other languages and one original, where the titles are shown different way, the original should be used if the song is equal.

But if translated form is provided, it should be also in normal title, not only in romanized, because romanization = how do the characters read, not what they mean.

Yeah, that's what I tried to say with being consistent. I

f you're going to use the Japanese metadata, everything (source, title, artist, etc.) should be in Japanese; if you're going for an official translation (let's say English), then everything should be in English.

Romanised titles for OSTs often aren't very good and make it difficult to find songs.

You often get a romanised title that is not used elsewhere so when you search for it the first result is the osu! map. Official English metadata which is in common use often seems to be ignored in favour of the unused romanisation. Publishers themselves seem to very rarely use a romanised title and often have both an official English & Japanese title - I pointed this out on an FFX ranked map that Japanese and English are side by side in the official booklet (see here) however it was still ranked with the unused romanised title.

With titles like "Magma Dan Toujou" at first glance players who are familiar with the English title and source probably wouldn't recognise it; it would probably be better to have non romanised Japanese for Japanese speakers. Searching for the romanisation it nets you "Magma-dan Toujou" and not "Magma Dan Toujou" so the romanisation might not be 100% correct anyway. The inconsistencies are just make it harder to find songs and maps.

For OSTs I think using the original title in Unicode and then using the English title as the romanised title is better. It avoids most of the problems highlighted above. If there was a toggle for Unicode titles on the beatmap listing then players could decide which to use.

Ultimately I think maps should be easily recognisable by their metadata and mappers should take this into consideration when deciding which metadata is best but I feel with the current situation this is not the case.

DakeDekaane wrote:

Yeah, that's what I tried to say with being consistent. I

f you're going to use the Japanese metadata, everything (source, title, artist, etc.) should be in Japanese; if you're going for an official translation (let's say English), then everything should be in English.

This makes sense to me but does that mean a mapper would ultimately have to decide which official source to use i.e. English or Japanese and ignore the other and just put in tags? I think using Unicode for Japanese and the romanised field for English would cater to both in these instances.

What do you think of this?
Do you think this is a proper wording?

baraatje123 wrote:

Songs which are Video-Game OSTs have both the English and Original name if possible. For Unicode Title, they use the Original Name. For Romanised title, they use the English name of the song. You are free to set the true romanisation in tags. Please don't set them as title, as they are rather confusing for people who only know the english name of the song

What do you think of this?
Do you think this is a proper wording?

That's not really correct as it is right the opposite of romanization. I would rather stick to DakeDekaane's opinion.

(basically same as I said before, but allows a choice for unchanged songs)

Make a feature request to include Translated Title if you can disagree. Replacing romanization with translation is completely useless, it is equally difficult for someone Japanese to remember English title like for someone English to remember Japanese romanized title.

"People cannot remember it" is highly subjective argument. Let just mapper have the choice, some people rather appreciate what artist has chosen as a title more than altering it by translation from some random guy (example, might happen). Romanization anyway is how does the foreign text read, not what it means, for that reason, if using English title - use it, but do not mix it with different language because that would not be Romanization but translation. Romanization always worked and I do not see any reason to omit it now. Appreciate original language, not your native or English (in the case of how I said the rule, you would at least have the choice actually) and realize the difference between translation and romanization.

This does not mean translations are bad. But you still should use romanized title if you use original title as a title and put translation to tags OR use English title without any romanization and keep original title and romanization in tags. Just keep the consistency here - It's like taking a song: "Hmm.. I will use Japanese title as a title, because it is official, but because this one does also have Chinese translation, I will romanize the Chinese text and put it to romanized title just for lulz, it is translated title to Chinese." - I know this sounds pretty stupid, but the same applies to English, just because it is one of the most used languages, it does not mean it can be replacement of romanization (I actually mentioned Chinese, because Mandarin is the most used language in the world, so even that could be used as a "romanization" if we consider that most people will remember it, because it is really often used language and in the logic of omitting romanization and using translation instead, it should be correct either. I think I said it enough simple in the notice and it won't cause any trouble - because you have 2 choices anyway.

Okay
That seems reasonable
I must have misunderstood something
And I'll go ahead and ask for Translation in F-Req

With the change of how the Ranking Criteria Subforum works from now on, topics like these are obsolete.