22:19 CerealeKiller: Hi you're there ?
22:19 29254_a: Yep!
22:19 CerealeKiller: IRC mod ?
22:23 29254_a: I'm not an IRC mod if that's what you're asking
22:23 CerealeKiller: Haha, i'm proposing
22:23 CerealeKiller: IRC mods are basically mod that aren't posted on the thread but discussed here imediatly
22:24 29254_a: Oh okay That would be really good
22:24 29254_a: First map, looking for all the feedback I can get
22:24 CerealeKiller: Yup, I've seen that
22:24 CerealeKiller: alright, i have two questions
22:24 CerealeKiller: do you like playing your map ?
22:25 29254_a: I'm not sure
22:25 CerealeKiller: so you don't really like it but you don't know why ?
22:25 29254_a: Yep!
22:25 29254_a: I like some parts, others feel odd
22:26 CerealeKiller: Okay okay
22:26 CerealeKiller: second question, do you clear it easily ?
22:27 29254_a: I clear it but can't FC it
22:27 CerealeKiller: okay, since you're rank 150k with 3k plays I wasn't really sure
22:28 CerealeKiller: because if you never mapped, starting with harder difficulties isn't reccomended, especially if you can't clear them
22:28 29254_a: Ah oki
22:28 CerealeKiller: because that means you didn't play much or even at all other maps of the same diff, so you can't even have an idea of what it should look like
22:29 29254_a: Yeah fair point
22:29 CerealeKiller: anyway, for a first map, it's really not bad !
22:29 29254_a: Thanks
22:30 CerealeKiller: (it doesn't mean it's not awful buuuuuut, you wont need that much to get better I think)
22:30 CerealeKiller: alright let start then
22:31 29254_a: Yeah I figured it was pretty gross hahah, it's just hard to tell from where I'm sitting
22:31 CerealeKiller: 1st of all, the approach rate (AR), for an insane diff AR8 is minimum and AR9 recommended
22:33 29254_a: Would it be better to set it to 8 or 9?
22:33 CerealeKiller: yes sherlock, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING
22:34 29254_a: Hahaha I meant 8, or 9
22:34 29254_a: As in which of the two is better
22:34 CerealeKiller: Oh okay my bad haha
22:34 29254_a: ...For this map, as 9 is usually recommended but there's got to be times where 8 is the go as otherwise all insanes would be 9
22:35 CerealeKiller: Yes of course
22:36 CerealeKiller: Well, 8 isn't bad in that map, except there are some patterns may be confusing with AR8
22:37 29254_a: Just played through it with AR9, it felt way more natural
22:38 CerealeKiller: Alright then, a second thing, don't map strictly with the grid, it's pretty... messy
22:38 CerealeKiller: set the grid as tiny
22:39 29254_a: I didn't even know that could change
22:39 29254_a: :'|
22:39 CerealeKiller: g
22:39 CerealeKiller: is the hotkey
22:40 29254_a: That would make sense
22:40 CerealeKiller: yeah
22:40 CerealeKiller: haha
22:40 *29254_a facedesk
22:42 CerealeKiller: 00:09:642 (2,3,4,5) - straight sliders aren't really nice, you could change it but it's not that important
22:44 CerealeKiller: 00:18:506 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,1,1,1,1) - That pattern is cool but those 00:22:870 (1,1,1,1) - are too spaced
22:44 CerealeKiller: and New Combo (NC) is unecessary
22:44 CerealeKiller: 00:26:551 - Add a circle here
22:45 CerealeKiller: 00:35:960 (1,2,3,4) - This is a good looking pattern but a very uncool to play pattern, I wouldn't recommend it
22:46 CerealeKiller: Especially 00:38:142 (1,2,3,4) - and 00:40:324 (1,2,3,4) - where the spacing is high
22:46 CerealeKiller: 00:42:506 (1,1,1,1) - Same
22:47 29254_a: Should I just make them streams?
22:47 29254_a: Or zig-zags or something?
22:47 CerealeKiller: Well those are already streams, but yeah making in the same direction
22:48 CerealeKiller: zig zags are okay yeah
22:49 CerealeKiller: Making the spacing bigger each next pattern is a good idea, but it's dangerous when you're not experimented because it's hard to make something smooth to play
22:49 CerealeKiller: you can try it of course
22:52 CerealeKiller: 00:44:551 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - This pattern isn't bad, but it's hard, consider reducing spacing
22:52 CerealeKiller: and making the same one 4 times in a row, change is good
22:58 CerealeKiller: still there ?
23:00 29254_a: was just fixing the above ^
23:00 29254_a: Yeah sorry
23:00 CerealeKiller: No problem
23:01 CerealeKiller: 00:55:460 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - Such a stream may be also hard to play
23:02 CerealeKiller: I wouldn't recommend
23:03 29254_a: Would that be better if it was a curved narrow stream?
23:03 29254_a: Or is it just too long
23:03 CerealeKiller: one thing to keep in mind when you're a begginer at mapping, is to make things simple and often think about, how the player will enjoy the playing
23:03 CerealeKiller: No it's not, you can do that
23:03 CerealeKiller: 00:57:642 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Try to avoid such overlaps
23:05 CerealeKiller: you can try to do something like this
23:05 CerealeKiller: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3412734
23:06 CerealeKiller: 01:02:006 (1,2) - Avoid overlaps !
23:06 CerealeKiller: 01:08:006 (1,2,3,4,1,1) - When you have circles each 1 beat, space them more !
23:08 CerealeKiller: 01:16:188 (1,1,2,3) - Overlaaaaaaps
23:08 CerealeKiller: 01:22:324 - Add a circle
23:08 CerealeKiller: 01:31:051 - same
23:08 CerealeKiller: 01:39:642 (9,10,11) - YOu can't do such a thing
23:09 29254_a: is there a hotkey for reversing slider direction?
23:09 29254_a: like rotating the whole slider
23:09 CerealeKiller: ctrl+g is reversing slider head with tail
23:09 CerealeKiller: or swaping circles
23:09 29254_a: ty
23:09 CerealeKiller: (changing the selected (4,5) to a (5,4) for ex)
23:10 CerealeKiller: and crtl+shift+r is rotating
23:11 CerealeKiller: So I was saying, you can't do that 01:39:642 (9,10,11) - , because your 9 is way to far from the 10 which is only 1/4th beat later
23:11 CerealeKiller: so I suggest to move the 10/11 and stack them with the 9
23:12 CerealeKiller: and then move the 12 on the bottom (where the 10 was previously)
23:12 CerealeKiller: (and say it if i'm going too fast, and ask suggestions, and explanations, and stuff you don't understard)
23:13 29254_a: so with the 9,10,11
23:13 29254_a: the problem is the double note
23:13 29254_a: because it's too fast for the distance?
23:13 29254_a: I can't see numbers that's why I'm asking
23:13 29254_a: Actually 1sec il swap to default skin
23:14 CerealeKiller: Oh okay
23:14 CerealeKiller: yeah, when you play it it's stupidly hard to get those right, you have to keep the Distance Snap (DS) overall constant
23:15 CerealeKiller: or at least regular/consistent
23:15 CerealeKiller: because when you play, that's what you basically use, more that the approach circles, to know when to click
23:15 CerealeKiller: and there's the same thing right here : 01:46:461 (4,5,6) -
23:16 CerealeKiller: and here 01:48:370 (5,6,7) -
23:16 CerealeKiller: and here 01:52:733 (5,6,7) -
23:18 29254_a: I just deleted the second note on each
23:18 CerealeKiller: oh
23:19 CerealeKiller: you didn't have to imo
23:19 CerealeKiller: it sounded good imo
23:20 CerealeKiller: I would have kept them
23:20 29254_a: So how would I keep them then? Move the patterns closer together?
23:20 CerealeKiller: the best idea is to stack them
23:20 CerealeKiller: when you have triples
23:20 CerealeKiller: you can either stack them on the same location
23:20 CerealeKiller: or make like a mini straight strea
23:20 CerealeKiller: m
23:21 CerealeKiller: 01:39:642 (9,10,11) - Here I would stack them
23:21 CerealeKiller: 01:42:915 (1,2,3) - Here too
23:21 CerealeKiller: but the others you can make the mini streams
23:26 29254_a: How did you SS the editor?
23:27 CerealeKiller: What ?
23:27 29254_a: Like you sent me a link on the osu website with a picture of the editor @ it
23:27 CerealeKiller: Oh
23:28 CerealeKiller: It's shift+F12
23:29 29254_a: Im guessing the upload part is a supporter feature
23:29 29254_a: Mine just saves on my harddrive
23:30 CerealeKiller: Nope it's not
23:30 CerealeKiller: simpleF12 is normal screenshot
23:30 CerealeKiller: I'm not supporter
23:30 CerealeKiller: and shift+F12 works
23:31 29254_a: Oh it worked, I clicked alt+f12 before lmao
23:31 29254_a: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3412830
23:31 29254_a: Is that what you meant by ministream?
23:31 29254_a: 5, 6, 7
23:31 CerealeKiller: yeah that's it
23:31 CerealeKiller: exactly
23:31 29254_a: Awesome!
23:33 CerealeKiller: Yup
23:33 CerealeKiller: 01:49:461 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - This patterns
23:33 CerealeKiller: just don't
23:33 CerealeKiller: it's unplayable
23:35 CerealeKiller: do normal streams, that are straight or curved !
23:35 CerealeKiller: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3412849 Something like this seems nice
23:35 CerealeKiller: 01:51:642 (1,2,3,4) - You could make bigger spacing
23:38 CerealeKiller: 02:00:370 (1,2,3,4) - rather boring pattern. (It's okay, but very simple, making simple things is always a good base, but it's not what you wanna have in the end)
00:00 CerealeKiller: and well, I think taht's all
00:00 CerealeKiller: I mean
00:00 CerealeKiller: There are a lot of other things to improve
00:01 29254_a: I just need to redo 02:00:370 (1,2,3,4) and then i'll re-upload it
00:01 CerealeKiller: okay
00:01 29254_a: o i need to put a dash
00:01 29254_a: i see
00:01 CerealeKiller: a dash ?
00:01 CerealeKiller: oh and, the part between the breaks is messy
00:01 29254_a: as in 02:00:370 (1,2,3,4)- to stop the link
00:02 CerealeKiller: well it's not really a good way to map
00:02 CerealeKiller: I would remap, but well, dunno
00:02 CerealeKiller: oh yeah I see what you mean
00:03 CerealeKiller: 03:56:551 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - And taht stream, curve it, when streams are long they're better curved
00:03 CerealeKiller: (applies also for sliders)
00:04 CerealeKiller: now I thing those are the most important issues in your map
00:05 CerealeKiller: so what you should keep in mind
00:05 CerealeKiller: For a playable map, take care to have a consistent DS, playtest the map often to see if it's smooth to play
00:07 CerealeKiller: For a nice map, don't map using the grid, you have possible 180° when placing two elements, why would you only consider making only 0/45/90/135/180 angles ?
00:07 CerealeKiller: try to avoid overlaps
00:08 CerealeKiller: make logic patterns, that are playable, the looking comes after playability
00:08 29254_a: Seems a bit silly when you think about it doesn't it haha
00:08 CerealeKiller: what doesn't ?
00:08 29254_a: Locking yourself to like 8 directions from each note
00:09 29254_a: Only
00:09 CerealeKiller: Oh haha yeah
00:11 29254_a: So between the breaks... I found it hard to map that part
00:11 CerealeKiller: Yeah I see
00:11 29254_a: I couldn't really follow the lead as it went spastic
00:11 29254_a: And I didn't wanna follow the beat as it's slow and kinda boring
00:11 29254_a: But the break was too long without mapping something
00:12 CerealeKiller: Yeah I understand
00:15 29254_a: Ok I think i covered most things
00:16 29254_a: Other than the bit in the break + I haven't worked out how to de-new-combo the combos with multiple NCs
00:16 29254_a: Probably will redo manually
00:17 CerealeKiller: Oh yeah
00:17 CerealeKiller: To be honnest I wouldn't know how to map that part to
00:17 CerealeKiller: o
00:18 29254_a: Updated the map... did I miss anything?
00:18 29254_a: Thankyou sooo much for your help by the way
00:19 CerealeKiller: You're welcome !
00:19 CerealeKiller: And dunno, maybe try something li,e this (look at the time bar at the top and try to reproduce the same sequence)
00:21 CerealeKiller: I don't know, I can't tell you didn't miss anything, but I thing the most important things are said
00:23 29254_a: I'll reread through it all and doublecheck everything
00:24 CerealeKiller: well I'm playing it again
00:24 CerealeKiller: and it plays well better
00:24 CerealeKiller: to me
00:25 CerealeKiller: except one pattern you have redone and it's worse haha
00:25 29254_a: Oh no! D:
00:26 CerealeKiller: it's this one
00:26 CerealeKiller: 00:48:915 (1,2,3,4) -
00:26 CerealeKiller: it's even harder to play when I told you that the previous was difficult D:
00:26 CerealeKiller: Dunno, you'll have to change it someday anyway
00:27 CerealeKiller: Do you know what flow is ?
00:27 29254_a: hahaha oh no I had a feeling that was too difficult
00:28 29254_a: I wanted it to be similar to the first 2 patterns but different enough that it felt fresh
00:28 CerealeKiller: Yeah I see
00:28 CerealeKiller: well it's not working so well
00:28 CerealeKiller: but keep trying
00:29 CerealeKiller: if you feel that something is too hard to play, or you're not satisfied with
00:29 CerealeKiller: Don't keep it, never !
00:30 CerealeKiller: But well
00:30 CerealeKiller: read that
00:30 CerealeKiller: t/86329
00:30 CerealeKiller: May be a bit long
00:30 CerealeKiller: but having a good flow is super important in mapping !
00:30 29254_a: Will do!
00:31 CerealeKiller: Alright
00:31 CerealeKiller: I think that's all
00:31 CerealeKiller: if you have any further questions
00:31 CerealeKiller: you can ask anytime when I'm online
00:31 CerealeKiller: if I'm not and you still wanna
00:31 CerealeKiller: you can PM me
00:33 29254_a: Aw thanks... I really appreciate this
00:33 CerealeKiller: You're welcome !

00:35:960 - 00:36:370 slider
00:38:142 - 00:38:551 ^
00:40:324 - 00:40:733 ^

00:45:097 (3,1) - distance
00:47:279 (3,1) - ^
00:49:460 (3,1) - ^
00:51:642 (3,1) - ^
01:11:279 - 01:11:551 slider
01:42:370 (4,1,2,3) - fix blanket
02:50:824 - LOL
02:55:188 - fix blanket
03:27:643 (8,1,2,3) -fix blanket