So, this is a little something that came out while speaking in #modHelp

There's usually this problem of 2 pages of bubbles in pending (atm, 2 pages and one bubble), and while some bubbles are 3 weeks old, others seem to get fastranked like if nobody cares for the alredy pending bubbles.

1.-There should be a max ammount of bubbles in pending at a time (let's say, by example, one page). That way:
Pros~
-BATs would be really careful when ading a bubble to the list, as if a low quality map were to get bubbled, it could take the space of a good quality non-bubbled map.
-Mappers should start focusing on one map at a time, as they can't have all their pending maps bubbled.
-BATs would have an easier time deciding what to mod from the Bubble list.
Cons~
-On the other side, massive popping could happen if BATs are not careful when bubbling something.
-The trafic of bubbles would increase, and inmature mappers could start annoying more and more for a bubble when there's space for one in the list.


2.-There should be a max ammount of bubbles-per-BAT (Let's say, 3 or 2 bubbles by a BAT at a time). That way:
Pros~
-BATs would be really careful when ading a bubble to the list, as if they add a low quality map, they would not be able to add more requests later.
-BATs would have some time to "rest" when their bubble ammount reaches the limit, decreasing the traffic of bubbles per BAT, while not decreasing the ranking speed at all.
Cons~
-A Mafia of bubbles may appear. Some BATs may start bubbling just their friend's maps and ignoring new mapper's maps, decreasing the chances of the new mappers.
-

qlum wrote:

I now realize a per bat limit is not the best option because the bat that bubbles can not rank the map himself thus possibly leaving him with the inability to bubble. What if there was a required balance of bubbles every bat that has more 3 or more bubbles must rank or de-bubble something else before bubbling another map this may be a bit annoying for the bat but having a bubble for a very long time is a lot more annoying for a mapper especially for a beginning mapper.

"But, if we reduce the bubble ammount, the ranking speed would decrease"
In fact, it could be the other way around.
If we have less bubbles, then BATs can focus on the alredy bubbled maps rather than paying attention to Bubble requests. Besides, if the "high quality maps" pro comes true, the modding time should not be long, avoiding long essays when popping a bubble.


Any other pros/cons/ideas are welcome. I can't remember everything that was said, so, yeah <_<

This kind of limits were proposed before, iirc, and nothing got through.

I think that the best solution would be using common sense.
I mean, if a map has a really low priority, have a look at it later and focus on another map first. In the meanwhile the user can ask other people whose modding will increase priority and decrease the risk of calling a BAT twice for a stupid fix.

Simple and effective.
( I know that i should consider each case, but i think this would work fine most of the time)

~190 maps have been ranked in the past 30 days. Considering there are 40 bubbles in Pending right now, I think that's perfectly fine. It would take BATs 6 days to clear that out. If you can't wait one week to get your map from bubble to rank/pop ON AVERAGE, then you're just too impatient.

Limiting BATs to 2-3 bubbles is silly, because many of the BATs are inactive, and some such as osuplayer are very active. That would just hinder them, as they wouldn't be able to go about ranking or bubbling anything until another BAT came along. It would in fact, slow down the process. I've seen BATs quite often go 'Oh there are 2 pages of bubbles I'll go cut down on that.' The process is fine. The number of users, and maps is increasing. Before going 'Oh 40 bubles is a TON.' you should look at people's modding habits and the number of maps ranked on average daily.

If anything, we could use more BATs, not limits and MORE red tape upon them. If a shitty map gets bubbled, someone will pop it or a modder will go 'This is shitty fix it.' anyways. Also, mappers aren't just going to start focusing on one map at a time due to .. bubble limitations? That doesn't even make sense to me. People will keep mapping and /np'ing the same as always.

Also this bubble traffic thing doesn't make any sense to me. I'd much rather mod a bunch of stuff then check back later for updates. NOT mod one thing then mod another 3 hours later, repeat. It seems to me the problem is people are too impatient. Go make your map better before you whore for bubbles and rank and stars. I can find many examples of blatant star, kudosu, and system abuse. If anything, BATs need to crack down on retarded users more.

Fault in the system lies in stupid users abusing it, and declining BAT-user ratio. If, instead of whoring #modReqs with 8 /np's every hour, they modded others' maps and improved theirs', there would be much more progress and better map quality.

TL;DR Too much egocentrism/system abuse, too few BATs. All else is okay.

Krisom wrote:

-A Mafia of bubbles may appear.

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be an intentional pun, or unintentional.

I think it'd work far better if BATs prioritised bubble modding based on the age of the first bubble the map was given. That'd make sure that bubbles get ranked eventually and don't just sit there.

I agree to this limiting the amount of bubbles would increase the pressure on bats to ether de-bubble or to rank. Resulting in faster rankings and more ranked maps.

qlum wrote:

I agree to this limiting the amount of bubbles would increase the pressure on bats to ether de-bubble or to rank. Resulting in faster rankings and more ranked maps.

ilu.

CDFA wrote:

Krisom wrote:

-A Mafia of bubbles may appear.

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be an intentional pun, or unintentional.

is there a pun in there o_o?

Krisom wrote:

CDFA wrote:

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be an intentional pun, or unintentional.

is there a pun in there o_o?

Mafiamaster is usually the person at the top of the BAT rankings so when you said mafia I thought of Mafiamaster and how he bubbles and ranks stuff like a boss WHICH I'M NOT SAYING IS BAD I'm just saying.

Oh hoh hoh.

I'm going to agree with shinde. plus aren't a good amount of people that play osu! out of school right now, so shouldn't expect more bubbles?
shinde, i saw what you did there >_>, im doing mod4mods right now anyway

ouranhshc wrote:

I'm going to agree with shinde. plus aren't a good amount of people that play osu! out of school right now, so shouldn't expect more bubbles?

But that's not the idea. The main idea is to prioritize the alredy old bubbles. Like, 10 day old bubbles, or whatever the time for a bubble to be considered "old" is. There are some great examples of old bubbles sitting on pending right now.

I agree with CnF actually, buy you appeal to the common sense of mappers, wich is something that not always happens.

And Shinde, I'm not triyng to slow down or speed up the process, as I said above, this should be a feature that makes BATs focus on older bubbles rather than bubbling new ones. Maybe the feature wasn't quite appropiate for the subject <_<", but hey, I tried.
Oh, and I actually think the number of BATs is fine, I'd like to see some of the unactive BATs modding though, but the ranking speed is quite nice actually~ Why so much [b] in your post? It makes me feel that youre raging D:

isn't it also part of the mapper's responsibility to make sure that his/her map gets checked by a BAT/GMTs that mod/rank maps

Krisom wrote:

Why so much bold in your post? It makes me feel that youre raging D:

I'd be angry, honestly. In fact, I'm already sad/angry/dissapointed.

Anyways, I already complained about the fact that there were like 6 maps with a month old bubble (some of them already got ranked, thoguh) while the newest ranked map list had 50% of maps with a quite recent bubble turned into a heart. And quite recently talking about minutes or hours.

Do we need to decrease or increase the number of ranked maps? Absolutely not, 3~6 ranked maps a day it's perfect, more would be too much imo.

Do we need to change our habits? Yes. And yes, I talk to everybody, mappers and modders.

To mappers: Stop being damn impatient and bug BATs to get a map ranked when you got your bubble 3 minutes ago. You aren't the only one in the world who wants a ranked map.

To BATs: Stop giving advantages to certain mappers and speedranking maps/accepting rank requests, you're just making impatient people think that they can bug you to get their map ranked before those people who doesn't like to bug BATs and waits patiently days, weeks, months... Speedranks shouldn't ever have existed. It only makes people ego go up and creates fights (I don't want to say names, but you should probably know what kind of people I'm talking about).

We only can finish this if we all help to do it.

EDIT: Lol, Krisom, quoting your sentence broke my post D: Also FCK YEAH 1000th post!!
EDIT2:

ouranhshc wrote:

isn't it also part of the mapper's responsibility to make sure that his/her map gets checked by a BAT/GMTs that mod/rank maps

It is when you're asking for a bubble, not for a rank. Like someone said before, there's a reason why bubbled maps are brought automaticly to first page of pending maps, right?

Krisom wrote:

I agree with CnF actually, buy you appeal to the common sense of mappers, wich is something that not always happens.

That's why i said "would be".

Beuchi-chan wrote:

To mappers: Stop being damn impatient and bug BATs to get a map ranked when you got your bubble 3 minutes ago. You aren't the only one in the world who wants a ranked map.
To BATs: Stop giving advantages to certain mappers and speedranking maps/accepting rank requests, you're just making impatient people think that they can bug you to get their map ranked before those people who doesn't like to bug BATs and waits patiently days, weeks, months... Speedranks shouldn't ever have existed. It only makes people ego go up and creates fights (I don't want to say names, but you should probably know what kind of people I'm talking about).

Exactly.
So, why asking for rank? Bubbles get taken of daily, so your turn will come sooner or later anyway.
Asking for modding bubbled maps should be "fair" if the bubble is pretty old.
But, again, that's common sense.

Beuchi-chan wrote:

ouranhshc wrote:

isn't it also part of the mapper's responsibility to make sure that his/her map gets checked by a BAT/GMTs that mod/rank maps

It is when you're asking for a bubble, not for a rank. Like someone said before, there's a reason why bubbled maps are brought automaticly to first page of pending maps, right?

i meant in terms of when it comes down, o my map has been bubbled for x number of days , where x > 10 day. The mapper should atleast start trying to find a BAT for his or her map or atleast let a BAT know that the map has an old bubble.

EDIT: The reason why i don't like to have bubbled map sit there to long because its either, get it looked at in a couple days or wait and x number of weeks. Also it as if SP actually makes a difference when a map gets looked at by a BAT

EDIT2: im okay with asking a BAT for looking at a bubbled map if the map is old. Speedranks = boo (although sometimes its not the mappers fault) (aka that 6 ranked maps in 2 weeks >.<)

A fact of life: No one wants to spend hours sifting through crap. BATs would rather spend their time modding something they know's going to be interesting than take a chance on something from an unknown mapper. This is why speedranks happen.

This is also what the star priority system is for--the mass of regular players should be able to handle the gruntwork of sorting good maps from crap, so that the BAT can both be more productive and more motivated by spending their time on good maps. (The star system failing to achieve this is a separate issue to be discussed here.)

I don't see a problem with this, since the ranking bubbles should be higher priority than bubbling other maps. But likewise, it shouldn't be necessary. A per-BAT bubble limit is a bad idea, because it's possible that no one will rank/pop bubbles set up by a particular BAT, leaving them stuck.

Other changes, like giving MATs nukes, implementing the Morgue, and revising the star system would do more good IMO.

MetalMario201 wrote:

A fact of life: No one wants to spend hours sifting through crap. BATs would rather spend their time modding something they know's going to be interesting than take a chance on something from an unknown mapper. This is why speedranks happen.

This is also what the star priority system is for--the mass of regular players should be able to handle the gruntwork of sorting good maps from crap, so that the BAT can both be more productive and more motivated by spending their time on good maps. (The star system failing to achieve this is a separate issue to be discussed here.)

I don't see a problem with this, since the ranking bubbles should be higher priority than bubbling other maps. But likewise, it shouldn't be necessary. A per-BAT bubble limit is a bad idea, because it's possible that no one will rank/pop bubbles set up by a particular BAT, leaving them stuck.

Other changes, like giving MATs nukes, implementing the Morgue, and revising the star system would do more good IMO.

I now realize a per bat limit is not the best option because the bat that bubbles can not rank the map himself thus possibly leaving him with the inability to bubble. What if there was a required balance of bubbles every bat that has more 3 or more bubbles must rank or de-bubble something else before bubbling another map this may be a bit annoying for the bat but having a bubble for a very long time is a lot more annoying for a mapper especially for a beginning mapper.

a bubble limit per bat would not be a good idea IMO.

the game is getting bigger and bigger everyday what goes by, thus as the game gets bigger more and more maps goto pending and also the amount of great and horrid maps increase hugely. this is expected due to the way progress works.

but i will say "blahblah amount of maps ranked in a day is enough" is junk, as more and more maps are made and the game becomes bigger. it is commen sence that the amount of maps what are rankable and need to be ranked will also increase

as the amount of mappers increase so should the amount of "active not inactive" Bats. atm the increase in maps is faaaaaar faster than the increase in bats even though there is lots of ppl within this place what are easily bat ready (as allways i say no names)

also the amount of favouritism and "friend modding" within the bat group is hugely big, infact its almost as big as the "lets ignore the star system" craze now.

fast note over the star system: you cant expect mappers to care about the star system and not bug bats with low star maps if the bat are going around ranking songs with barely 8 stars while leaving the huge starred ones, this itself takes away 100% of all the confidence any mapper can have with "gaining stars" since it feels completely useless

so more "active bats" due to the ever increase in users, (seems to have almost doubled within the last 8 mounths) and also i may get killed for this but, an increase in the minimun amount of stars for rank and also a filter so that self given kudo stars do not count to this amount

say you have to have 15 insted of 8 stars from "other users only" for a rank. yes at first it may look like this would slow the ranking down, but overall it would speed up. but even this would only work "if" the bats modded the songs correctly to how the star system should work.

excuse my spelling, its late here xD

No.

Maps from expert mappers are usually ready to be ranked at their time of upload. Modding on these maps usually amounts to polishing and increasing enjoyment rather than ranking criteria. It's still welcome and good but not in the same way as on beginner maps.

Expert mappers should be able to bypass the star system altogether IMO. This is in everyone's best interest since there will be fewer maps cluttering Pending, allowing modders to focus on finding the hidden gems from beginner and intermediate mappers. The +8SP rule is fine since Kudosu stars are cheap. Blocking Kudosu stars from this would only lead to more GOOD maps cluttering up Pending.

The tasks of regular players and the MAT are to find and star neglected yet good maps to help bring them up to standards. (The MAT are different only in that they should know what they're talking about.)

The task of the BAT is to rank good maps, whether they'd been good from the beginning, or became good after extensive modding from the community. The BAT are only able to find these good maps based on some combination of their star priority and the track record of the mapper.

I think what would work better than OP's suggestion is a time limit on when a bubble has been given to a certain map. I don't think the star priority has that same huge factor when a map has been bubbled, since it already passes the standards for a BAT to be able to mod it by the time of bubbling. To further reduce the clutter of bubbled maps, there should be a notification for BATs on certain bubbled maps that have not been given attention for a determined duration. This will give both "expert mappers" (though the word "expert" really isn't the right term to describe what I'm talking about here) and the rest of the mappers a good chance to have their bubbled maps ranked (or in several cases, popped for further modding).

Seriously, the only issue I see in terms of map modding is getting the modders in the first place. Most people are focused in berating the BATs for not doing their own work when we see a lot of non-BATs who could've contributed by modding other people's maps but decided not to anyway. This isn't my rant, though; it's just an observation I've seen around lately (i.e. the "too many mappers, too few modders" situation).

Bumping.

As first I think this doesn't belongs here in the Feature Requests since this seems more for an order to only-BAT members. I think that this method isn't neccessary for the daily's stand. BATs are qualified enough to choose good Maps which are worth to bubble and we rarely have two Pages of Bubbles.

inb4 people will disagree with me or find that bump stupid.

I don't think this is necessary anymore. The number of BATs has doubled since the MAT merger. The system is managing itself quite well at the moment. I think we have a method that keeps the bubble list from getting too long that is better than physically restricting the amount.