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Make priority stars weighted

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45
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +29
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o
The problem with the current star system is that everyone's star is worth the same; an experienced modder's star is just as valuable as a new user's. This leads to all the wrong maps getting high priority. Thus, I think the value of the priority stars should be proportional to the experience of the user starring it. A user's star value would take into account kudosu and/or # of ranked maps, and their position (regular user, MAT, BAT). One possible way of star value calculation could be:

Regular users: Base value 1, +1 star for every 20 kudosu, capped at 8.
MATs: 10
BATs: 20

That's just an example, if anyone has any other ideas for formulae then be my guest. The star system just needs to be balanced; the more experienced the modder the more their approval should count.
Mystearica
Mystearica
Current system is just fine.

MAT and BAT stars shouldn't be able to have that much weight honestly. The new ranking system is coming anyway and that is looking interesting. Things are quite more proportional and makes much more sense than things are now. Actually, I shouldn't say that. The present system would make sense if everybody followed it well. It's just a matter of following it.

BAT stars can have a bit more weight but I disagree with MAT stars having more weight, what does the MAT actually do now anyway? No seriously, I don't know.

What you're doing is in my opinion, creating further imbalance in the system. Modding doesn't necessarily relate to mapping and based on your idea, a lot of people will be seriously hindered from having a fair representation.

Then again, I'm more interested in the concepts of the new system. Why don't we just leave it for now?
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

Mystearica wrote:

What you're doing is in my opinion, creating further imbalance in the system. Modding doesn't necessarily relate to mapping and based on your idea, a lot of people will be seriously hindered from having a fair representation.
Modding doesn't necessarily relate to mapping, no. That's why the proposed system is based off of kudosu, which monitors modding activity and not mapping.

Why shouldn't a star from an experienced modder who knows what they are talking about be worth more than a star from a user who joined yesterday?
KoromoAmae
43 posts
Joined April 2010
KoromoAmae
This would help fix the star system, which is currently completely functionless. I think the gaps you suggest are too large though. It would lead to people being extremely reserved with handing out stars; being reserved is a good thing, but being too reserved is not. I imagine the trains of thinking would be along the lines of "Well I found a single mistake, and if I star it it'll be another +10, which I don't really want to give it while it still has this error." This wouldn't be a problem if getting people to recheck after they've modded once wasn't such a hassle, but it is. Lots of people flat-out refuse to do so anyway.

The basic idea is fine, the numbers need tuning. Every BAT I've seen has a forum signature saying something along the lines of "I do not take mod requests", and they say the same in in-game chat channels, so their priority stars would almost never be seen in the first place. It seems pointless to give them such a heavy weight considering that it will never be used.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
I'm hoping your numbers say the cap, not the base level.

Anyways, after thinking about this, I think it'll work. Although there can be a bit of flaws. People would ask for mods via the Kudosu ranking rather than #modreqs, mod queues, or whatever people do these days.

Also, just on the forumula.

Base (All members, including BATMATs): 1
25 kudosu = +1 to base.
Kudosu Star = +1
Max: 10

Although I'm iffy about the kudosu star thing, as high leveled people could speedrank via "Map>Kudosu Star>BAT>Rank"
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Critic component: Equal to the average rating of the ranked maps you've placed stars on. (Kudosu stars don't affect this.)
Mapping component: Equal to your mapper ranking score.
Modding component: Equal to your Kudosu earned / 25, capped to 10.

The value of your star will be: Critic / 4 + Mapping / 4 + Modding / 2. If the result is less than 1, set it equal to 1.
Kudosu stars are always worth 5.
The minimum star priority for ranking would be raised to 20. (still equal to 4 kudosu stars)

Of course, the rating system will need an overhaul in order to make the first two components work properly.

Star values will generally be in the 1-10 range. I'm open to suggestions for the weights.

This is basically a new system, and existing priority values would either need recalculation or to be wiped. Kudosu stars should be kept but with their new values applied, rather than being refunded.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
Truthfully, I'd say that MAT shouldn't automatically be given a set weight. Perhaps they can get a couple of bonus points, but they should have the same system as regular modders. However, this could still fail for some users with high amounts of kd but still don't know what they're doing. >.>;;;

The BAT priority sounds fine as a set number, but perhaps drop it down a bit.

I completely agree with a weighted priority system since the current one is failing. The star/priority system hasn't had many tweaks at all since its debut, so it's time for some changes that could make it immensely more effective and lessen the complaints from the userbase.
Last edited by Derekku , edited 1 time in total.
Azure_Kite
osu! Alumni
3,217 posts
Joined February 2009
Azure_Kite
How about making it so that BATs can choose (up to a limit) How many stars they throw at a particular map?
As in, they see a map that is free of errors, so they bubble it and -wait that'll just cause people to Blame BATs for everything even more. Carry on without me.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
I'm all for MM's system, sounds good.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I like MM's version, although i also like faceman's version >_< ahh i give support
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi
so you are planning on giving MATs 10 stars and BATs 20 stars, should the minimum requirement to bubble a map be around 80 stars then?

i seriously doubt this will fix anything. MATs especially shouldn't be given anything else anymore.

Wait for the new ranking system, that would be the best thing to do right now
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I also agree with Gabi
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
I must say, MM's weighting formula looks great in theory, but we all know it is not representative of an accurate scoring as long as it relies on external data a la map ratings.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
Also, I'd actually like to see a base value of zero for regular modders until they have experience modding. The star spamming from random users/friends/etc. are almost always from people with zero kd and zero modding experience. Even though with a request such as this to increase the numbers to much higher levels, the newbie star spam still adds up...
Larto
4,128 posts
Joined June 2008
Larto

Derekku Chan wrote:

Also, I'd actually like to see a base value of zero for regular modders until they have experience modding. The star spamming from random users/friends/etc. are almost always from people with zero kd and zero modding experience. Even though with a request such as this to increase the numbers to much higher levels, the newbie star spam still adds up...
Supporttttttttttt
Sir Minelli
524 posts
Joined September 2008
Sir Minelli

Larto wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

The star spamming from random users/friends/etc.are almost always from people with zero kd and zero modding experience.
Supporttttttttttt
Star spam? where!?
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9799

Also, support Derekku's idea.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Yup i like Derekku's idea, i'll add more support to this :)
Edit: How about we make it so ppl need a minimum kudosu requirement (like 10 or 15) for their stars to have some value on maps?
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
I support both MetalMario's and 0_o's versions, although I cannot decide which I like more.

Why wouldn't MAT stars be worth more (should it be just a little) than a regular user's stars ? Aren't MAT supposed to be good modders, thus, they know what they are talking about when they give a star to a map ?

Also the problem is not that there are imbalances in the star values, the problem is the star spam by unknown people, just for a song or because they were asked to give a star. Hence my support to Derek's idea.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
how about something like only people with 10-20 kudo and above can have base star value of 1. MAT stars = 2 and BAT stars are 3
could that work maybe
Galkan
Global Moderator
2,023 posts
Joined September 2009
Galkan

deadbeat wrote:

MAT stars = 2 and BAT stars are 3
I was thinking about it also. Yea, that'd be pretty good.
Mashley
2,042 posts
Joined September 2008
Mashley

MetalMario201 wrote:

Critic component: Equal to the average rating of the ranked maps you've placed stars on. (Kudosu stars don't affect this.)
Thumbs down.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

MetalMario201 wrote:

Of course, the rating system will need an overhaul in order to make the first two components work properly.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
Making MAT stars violet and count for 2 and BAT stars orange and count for 3 is a good idea.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
bumb cause think it could still be a good idea
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Imma bump this for now because i still support it
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
+1 star every 100 kudosu, max of 3. I don't consider myself all that skilled, and I'm at ~150.

+1 (4) MAT,+2 (5) BAT.

Bat stars are worth 5 currently, right?

Having this implemented would mean I would give out a lot less stars though. Right now I give out stars because I want to get the beatmap attention, not necessarily if it's good/promising/ready to be ranked.

Or you could give BATs even more to do by letting them rate mods. The more "good" mods a person has, the more they get stars. Hopefully BATs will notice this on their own (they already do a pretty good job checking a thread every once in a while to make sure the kudosu is right).
h3k1ru
osu! Alumni
1,910 posts
Joined March 2010
h3k1ru
totally agreed with prev post, +support
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

ziin wrote:

Bat stars are worth 5 currently, right?

i thought they were 2 or 3

ziin wrote:

+1 star every 100 kudosu, max of 3. I don't consider myself all that skilled, and I'm at ~150.

+1 (4) MAT,+2 (5) BAT.
wouldn't it be easier to do something more like what i posted ages ago?

deadbeat wrote:

how about something like only people with x kudo and above can have base star value of 1. MAT stars = 2 and BAT stars are 3
though i think everyone having a star worth 1 would be easier
then mat/kudo star = 2
and finally bat at 3
or whatever
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
I think BAT stars were originally worth 3 (when the star system was first implemented), but were later changed to 2.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
That takes away the non-modders' votes. The way the star works now is perhaps a bit broken. However, non modders can still want maps to be finished, and according to the kudosu star checkbox, all you have to do is like the map. I know the actual guidelines are different (you shouldn't star a crappy map just because you like the song). Either way we need to lessen the non-modder weight and increase the modder weight.

And I didn't know pink stars were worth 2.

But yes, your method would work too. I think ideally the pink stars were supposed to do this, but people (like me) are stingy with them.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
we could add extra star numbers into this...shouldn't be that hard really i think
if we have it like
everyone under 50 kudo can give a star value of 0(so its more of a attention star or w/e)
50 to 100 can have star value 1
100+ kudo can have star value of 2
kudo star gets 3
Mat get 3 as well
Bat get 5
something like that better?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I think i like deadbeat's idea, the 1st one, otherwise it would be too easy to reach 8 sp, or maybe make a new sp limit? something still low, since with this rework star shooters wouldnt be able to add SP anyways and actual modders would.

Edit:
Ok i just came with a new idea, which basically uses part of deadbeat's idea with a new addition.
Up until 100 total kudosu you cant give an SP star to a map, however you can still give up to 1 blue star to a map using 2 kudosu earned, aditionally they can still give up to 1 pink (+2 SP) star to a map spending 3 kudosu.
After 100 total kudosu you can give a blue star to a map without spending kudosu, or use 3 kudosu to give up to 1 pink (+2 SP) star per map.
Anyone on the MAT can give up to 1 +2 SP (Purple) star to a map, or use 3 kudosu to give up to 1 pink (+2 SP) star per map.
Anyone on the BAT/GMT can give up to 1 +3 SP (Yellow) star to a map, or use 3 kudosu to give up to 1 pink (+2 SP) star per map.

Minimum SP for a map to be bubbled would be 12. (appended thanks to Odaril)

Comments? fixes?
Edit:
Changed minimum Sp for a map to be bubbled to 12 [thanks to Odaril]
Changed kudosu requirement for blue starring below 100 kudosu to 2 [thanks to Derekku]
Added that people below 100 kudosu can still use a pink star and limited max ammount of pink stars per user per map to 1 [thanks to Derekku]
Last edited by Sakura , edited 4 times in total.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
I love Sakura_Hana's idea. I'd just raise the minimum SP required to 12 at least (4 BAT stars).

Also maybe lower the minimum kudosu to give blue stars ?
(and make stars worth 0 black or something)
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

Odaril wrote:

Also maybe lower the minimum kudosu to give blue stars ?
yeah....100 does seem a bit high
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
IMO 100 kudosu isn't hard to get, and would certainly limit stars to only regular modders and remove most of the non-modders from the equation. Modders can still give out stars even if they don't have 100 kudosu, they just probably won't want to.

This will make it much harder to get the required minimum of 8 or 12, but honestly in the current system total stars are virtually worthless. Maps aren't ever ranked with just 8 stars (it's usually 12+ anyway) and if we increase the minimum, all you have to do is go post in a few queues/ask people in #osu, #modhelp, #modreqs, or friends to go star the map to get it up to the minimum. (or god forbid you mod some maps and star it yourself) Most of the time bats know what they are doing, so I don't see why there is a "mimimum" at all. mats/bats don't bubble/rank if they find too much stuff wrong, even after someone fixes everything--they wait for a double check by another mat/bat.

Has there ever been a case where a BAT wants to rank a map but couldn't due to lack of stars?
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani

ziin wrote:

Has there ever been a case where a BAT wants to rank a map but couldn't due to lack of stars?
Well actually, no, because the map has to get BUBBLED first, and maps won't get bubbled until they have 8_ stars.

Although, I have seen a few maps where BATs went "I'd bubble this if it weren't under 8 stars :3~".
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
awesome
Last edited by theowest , edited 1 time in total.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
there's plenty of liars out there who only play spun out, thus artificially increasing their accuracy, rank, and decreasing their score.

you can't have 300 kudosu and completely suck at modding. You can be rank 1000 and completely suck at modding.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn

ziin wrote:

there's plenty of liars out there who only play spun out, thus artificially increasing their accuracy, rank, and decreasing their score.

you can't have 300 kudosu and completely suck at modding. You can be rank 1000 and completely suck at modding.
akrolsmir
606 posts
Joined November 2010
akrolsmir
3 months later... nothing's changed so time to reanimate.

Reading through this thread, there are a lot of suggestions out there for better weighing systems, but I think that's the wrong way to go about this- it feels chaotic and unproductive. How about this for a plan:

SPOILER
1. Get a general consensus among the community that the system needs changing (though I'm pretty sure we have this already)
2. Convince whoever's in charge of the structure behind the star system that it needs to be changed (Peppy, I think). Just that a change is necessary, not necessarily with a concrete alternative yet. If we can't do that, further debate is pointless.
3. Discuss and select the criteria for the new ranking system (e.g. based on postcount? kudosu? mapper ranking? etc.)
4. Create a formula based on the weight of said criteria. Here, and not before, is when we start fiddling with numbers to perfect the system.
5. Submit to person in charge to implement.
6. Observe until 20 or so maps created after this system was implemented are ranked. Or two months or your choice of time. Reconvene and discuss. If everything works, yay! If not, work on further changes.

I know people hate reading online so here's the plan in short: Agree, convince Peppy, pick criteria, pick numbers, implement, observe.

Oh, and I don't have a particular preference among all the suggested systems thus far.
laport
1,239 posts
Joined June 2010
laport
ive read this entire thread, but I don't get it, why is this really needed? saying "the old system is outdated" is not an argument, saying "I want to upgrade my status of importance" is


ps basshunter sucks ass xdxd
Last edited by laport , edited 1 time in total.
Lucy-Kaede
435 posts
Joined April 2011
Lucy-Kaede

laport wrote:

ive read this entire thread, but I don't get it, why is this really needed? saying "the old system is outdated" is not an argument, saying "I want to upgrade my status of importance" is
Keep in mind the last post here was nearly a year ago..
Shouldn't bump year old threads xD

Without reading much, I can say that this has been somewhat fixed as to give a star a map you now have to earn the kudosu, not just be freinds with the creator and click "star".
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
No, this is pretty important. It's pretty obvious someone who has good experience with modding would hold a more valuable opinion. Even with the new system I am all for the idea
- Sugoi Sugoi -
77 posts
Joined June 2015
- Sugoi Sugoi -
to bump or not to bump >.>






























oops
Bara-
11,978 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
No longer makes sense as everything is 1 now
QAT/BN/other all have the same
I'd like it to change tho
For example, QAT 3-4, BN 2, other 1
Then I only need to shoot 6 stars before a map can get ranked \:D/
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