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Video Codec Update for MT, 10bit & HEVC

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +59
Shad0w1and
1,586 posts
Joined April 2011
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and
Problem Details:

The ranking criteria has accept the 720P backgroud videos, but i heard from some players who are using AMD PCs are complain about the video file could not be played properly. I would assume that because osu! do not have great multi-thread support, as well as its out-of-date codec libs caused this issue.

some of my friends are depressed about they could not watch the 720P videos on their quad-core AMD PCs.
one of the beatmaps that players might fail to play: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/194861

I would highly recommend osu! update its libraries, the DLLs like avcodec-51 are really way too old.

on the other hand, it is even more important to add support for HEVC. Microsoft has decided to add official HEVC codec support for WMP come with Windows 10. which means it will be more reasonable for osu to support this codec for future usage.

HEVC in typical coding setting will save up to 40% on file size and help us achieve better BG quality


osu! version: 20141106.14 (latest)
Last edited by Shad0w1and , edited 4 times in total.
- Marco -
7,362 posts
Joined December 2011
- Marco -
Just use k-lite codec pack :) (http://codecguide.com/)
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin

marcostudios wrote:

Just use k-lite codec pack :) (http://codecguide.com/)
That's not how it works...
Toadsworth
161 posts
Joined March 2014
Toadsworth
Shouldn't this be in the feature request forum rather than the tech support forum?
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

DatPenguinTho wrote:

Shouldn't this be in the feature request forum rather than the tech support forum?
dunno what you're talking about. this is clearly in the Feature Request forum ( o.o)
- Marco -
7,362 posts
Joined December 2011
- Marco -

deadbeat wrote:

DatPenguinTho wrote:

Shouldn't this be in the feature request forum rather than the tech support forum?
dunno what you're talking about. this is clearly in the Feature Request forum ( o.o)
It was in Technical Support then it got moved :) (also sry Marcin)
Last edited by deadbeat , edited 1 time in total.
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach
Updated libraries would be good. Currently I don't think there's support for newer encoding methods/profiles such as 10bit.

10bit sort of works, but scenes have massive artefacts in osu! that are not present in media players.
Shad0w1and
1,586 posts
Joined April 2011
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Lach wrote:

Updated libraries would be good. Currently I don't think there's support for newer encoding methods/profiles such as 10bit.

10bit sort of works, but scenes have massive artefacts in osu! that are not present in media players.
to be fair, it is even more important to add support for HEVC. Microsoft has decided add codec for WMP come with Windows 10. which means it will be more reasonable for osu to support this codec for future usage.
Shad0w1and
1,586 posts
Joined April 2011
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and
well we know that osu might need to have a better multi-thread support to unlock computing power. but peppy we really need that.
Ace3DF
160 posts
Joined June 2012
Ace3DF
But HEVC and 10-bit takes more CPU (HEVC is still far too far to be usable anyways)
If you want improved video while staying with osu filesize tell them to encode better.
Shad0w1and
1,586 posts
Joined April 2011
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Ace3DF wrote:

But HEVC and 10-bit takes more CPU (HEVC is still far too far to be usable anyways)
If you want improved video while staying with osu filesize tell them to encode better.
not as much as you thought, in my test, I found it only require about 1.7x CPU power. (720P AVC-10bit and 720P HEVC-8Bit to 720P AVC-8Bit)
and the problem is not cpu could not afford that. the osu has a decoder that is out-of-date, and does not support MultiThread well.
this is how much cpu power should take to decode a AVC-720P video on a Intel SB@2.8GHz (limited to single thread):
those peeks is because i am trying to skip content, and as everyone can see, it takes only 1/3 processing power of a core, as most people are using dual-core or even quad-core systems, 1.7x decoding power is acceptable - if osu have a updated codec and MT support.

about encoding, the thing is, many people know nothing about encoding. and a good encoder need to understand how codec perform at different situation, write a complicated script and must modify it every time when encode a different video or even each part of a video. this require a lot time to confirm and is impossible for normal desktops to do that. a dual-socket server is required to do that.

so once osu upgrade its lib, everyone might get up to 2x cpu power for video decode, and video. i am not sure if peppy good at optimizing this, but in general, video decode should be the application that supports multi-thread best.
Ace3DF
160 posts
Joined June 2012
Ace3DF
I have no idea about the "osu! should MT" as you have to take the gameplay (storyboard, etc.) itself into consideration.

You're encoding a short file. You shouldn't need a complicated script at all unless you want to filter banding or artefacts, but even then it's not even 5+ lines for something like that.
Since most anime have little to no grain these days and the same amount of action per flashy OP you shouldn't need to change the script much at all.
"this is impossible for normal destops to do that"
what? Sorry but if you're doing placebo you're doing it wrong.

HEVC is no where close to use for encoding files so decoding isn't needed. 10bit is just not needed. Sure it can speed up encoding and better compression a little bit, but for songs that are 1:30 to 4:00 long? Absolutely not, just compress better on the encoders side. It's honestly not hard. There are 100s of tutorials online and with a little messing around even handbrake can produce good enough quality:size for osu!
Shad0w1and
1,586 posts
Joined April 2011
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Ace3DF wrote:

I have no idea about the "osu! should MT" as you have to take the gameplay (storyboard, etc.) itself into consideration.

You're encoding a short file. You shouldn't need a complicated script at all unless you want to filter banding or artefacts, but even then it's not even 5+ lines for something like that.
Since most anime have little to no grain these days and the same amount of action per flashy OP you shouldn't need to change the script much at all.
"this is impossible for normal destops to do that"
what? Sorry but if you're doing placebo you're doing it wrong.

HEVC is no where close to use for encoding files so decoding isn't needed. 10bit is just not needed. Sure it can speed up encoding and better compression a little bit, but for songs that are 1:30 to 4:00 long? Absolutely not, just compress better on the encoders side. It's honestly not hard. There are 100s of tutorials online and with a little messing around even handbrake can produce good enough quality:size for osu!
It's pretty simple here, by doing what i am doing, i can get a same quality video with 70% filesize of most encoder here, someone like -google- can get close to me, but other could not even reach the same quality with30% bigger filesize.

that means, while other encode a crf22 video with 15MB, i can get the same quality with 11MB. the time spend on encode is nothing, but 10times more on my processing script.
my avs script normally have about 70+to 100 lines to do anaysis and optimizing.

back to codec, if osu support HEVC, it simplly just help everyone get the video quality i am spending hours(with experence, now maybe 10min) to look for automatically.
Ace3DF
160 posts
Joined June 2012
Ace3DF
I'm sorry but you're wrong.
Google can teach you, forums like doom9 alone has more than enough to help you.
You're encoding at crf22 but yet still go for "perfect" optimizing? You're just wasting your time really.
If your script has 70+ lines you are using some pretty outdated plugings. Even masktools2 shouldn't be used that much.

HEVC is still not ready give it a year or two. It wont help with getting the video quality when most good public builds are not close to completion.
Moving from 264 to hevc wont make it automatically lol
Shad0w1and
1,586 posts
Joined April 2011
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Ace3DF wrote:

I'm sorry but you're wrong.
Google can teach you, forums like doom9 alone has more than enough to help you.
You're encoding at crf22 but yet still go for "perfect" optimizing? You're just wasting your time really.
If your script has 70+ lines you are using some pretty outdated plugings. Even masktools2 shouldn't be used that much.

HEVC is still not ready give it a year or two. It wont help with getting the video quality when most good public builds are not close to completion.
Moving from 264 to hevc wont make it automatically lol
i am not wrong, i know that google is a expert, but as a encoder, he is not better than LP or even me, as encoder, we do not need to understand everything, but understand how to compose script and reduce the unnessacery visual signals and at the same time do not destroy the overall quality, that require a lot control filter and anaysis filter, them plus the section specified filters, 70 is not too much.
the best anime ripper, LP@VCB-S and mawen also have complex scripts.
Ace3DF
160 posts
Joined June 2012
Ace3DF
> best anime ripper, LP@VCB-S and mawen
2 unknown people that are not even on u2share?
LOL
You get results so w/e man
but you're putting in more effort then you should to get the same results
Shad0w1and
1,586 posts
Joined April 2011
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Ace3DF wrote:

> best anime ripper, LP@VCB-S and mawen
2 unknown people that are not even on u2share?
LOL
You get results so w/e man
but you're putting in more effort then you should to get the same results
Dear you really have a U2 account?..... they are the best, ask someone on U2 plz....
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi
It's like 5 years too early for HEVC. And, depending on what settings you use for it, it can be a lot more CPU intensive (I don't have exact numbers on me right now but it takes a hell of a lot more than 1.7x to encode with decent settings). Even though it would be feasible on an average dual-core system, one of osu!'s key points is its ability to run on the shittiest of the shitty systems. Shifting focus to almost-bleeding edge codec support that nobody even uses is not really in peppy's best interests I think.

And fwiw adding multithread support for anything is not easy. Trust me. In terms of video playback specifically, from my experience, video players tend to have wildly varying multithreaded performance, depending on the codec and renderer. For me, they typically cap out at around 30-40 CPU on quad-core + HT systems, and only go above in really rare cases.

...Oh yeah there was also video codec updates. Yeah I guess we could use those, it could make more files playable, though I've never had any problems with videos so...
Shad0w1and
1,586 posts
Joined April 2011
Topic Starter
Shad0w1and

Kitsunemimi wrote:

It's like 5 years too early for HEVC. And, depending on what settings you use for it, it can be a lot more CPU intensive (I don't have exact numbers on me right now but it takes a hell of a lot more than 1.7x to encode with decent settings). Even though it would be feasible on an average dual-core system, one of osu!'s key points is its ability to run on the shittiest of the shitty systems. Shifting focus to almost-bleeding edge codec support that nobody even uses is not really in peppy's best interests I think.

And fwiw adding multithread support for anything is not easy. Trust me. In terms of video playback specifically, from my experience, video players tend to have wildly varying multithreaded performance, depending on the codec and renderer. For me, they typically cap out at around 30-40 CPU on quad-core + HT systems, and only go above in really rare cases.
I do not actually know about programming, but i think this game might consider to update MT, 10bit or even HEVC in someday. There is not much peppy can do to improve the gaming experience, and many players do watch videos or watch auto playing.
Hope within one year or so, i can see it happen.... :/
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