This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on dinsdag 29 april 2008 at 23:26:40

Artist: Bomfunk MC
Title: Freestyler
BPM: 163,86
Filesize: 4885kb
Play Time: 04:52
Difficulties Available:

1. Simple Enough (1,91 stars, 245 notes)
2. Frustrating2Many (4,54 stars, 460 notes)

Download: Bomfunk MC - Freestyler
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
Final update:
I know it's been a while, but I had to put this final touch to the beatmap. Minor gameplay tweaking. Added background. I think that it's now definitely ready. Unless the beat snap divisor messed up my sliders.
<tinyedit>faulty sliders fixed</tinyedit>
-------

My first beatmap. I never thought I'd actually be making one of these myself, but I couldn't resist the temptation.
I've been busy on this one for a few days. I like the more difficult beatmaps, the ones that I can hardly manage to finish. I spent some time perfecting this one.
I chose this song, because it is one of those songs that many people will undoubtedly remember, whether you like it or not.
The game starts off with a nice difficulty, then gets harder until many of you get frustrated and throw your tablet/mouse/other around the room because you have to start all over again for the somanyeth time. Then the game goes a bit easier on you at the end. That is exactly what I love so much about the game. Frustration, and the satisfaction when you manage to finish the mission.

I will gladly take any feedback.

Edit:
Updated with "Simple Enough" difficulty. I wouldn't count it as "easy", but more in the sense of "a whole lot more doable than the original".

Also, I've updated the original (Frustrating2Many) with some of the pointers given. Some parts still have that (almost) unreasonable beatspacing, but it's all for making you guys frustrated to the point where you scream out so loud the neighbours across the street will shiver in fear.

(now with minor colour update)

(last update date added in subject)


Update: Simple Enough and Frustrating2Many updated


Update: "SUFFER!" added.
Update: "SUFFER!" removed, since it basically wasn't very good.

Update: Update to both difficulties. I hope beatspacing is reasonable now.

Update: Unless anyone can point out more flaws, I think I'm done now. I just put the finishing touches on this beatmap (very minor changes)

Update:
Minor gameplay tweaking (added/moved a few markers). Added background.
<tinyedit>faulty sliders fixed</tinyedit>

Hey Ewoud, welcome to the world of beatmapping! One of the better first time attempts I've seen. BPM was spot on, and there was nice use of all the features available including some clever sounds.

Some of the timing sections you added weren't quite right offset-wise, so I changed them and resnapped the notes. Also fixed a few minor things such as slider lengths which are much quicker to fix myself than to try and explain how to fix! I've attached the new .osu file, you probably won't notice much difference but the changes are there nonetheless.

Also, I know this is meant to be a really hard map, but beatspacing should still be reasonable in most places. There are quite a few spots on your map where the beatspacing is a bit dodgy, for example at 01:05:73, where all 7 notes are the same timing, but spaced differently. Try look through your map for similar instances and correct them.

Finally, you should make an easier difficulty of this to cater for all players.

'Grats on a great first effort. Starred.

Download: Bomfunk MC - Freestyler (EwoudCP) [Frustrating2Many].osu

eyup wrote:

Hey Ewoud, welcome to the world of beatmapping! One of the better first time attempts I've seen. BPM was spot on, and there was nice use of all the features available including some clever sounds.

Thanks. I've taught myself not to submit anything when it's half-arsed.

eyup wrote:

Some of the timing sections you added weren't quite right offset-wise, so I changed them and resnapped the notes. Also fixed a few minor things such as slider lengths which are much quicker to fix myself than to try and explain how to fix! I've attached the new .osu file, you probably won't notice much difference but the changes are there nonetheless.

Thanks for the help!

eyup wrote:

Also, I know this is meant to be a really hard map, but beatspacing should still be reasonable in most places. There are quite a few spots on your map where the beatspacing is a bit dodgy, for example at 01:05:73, where all 7 notes are the same timing, but spaced differently. Try look through your map for similar instances and correct them.

My thought was this: bigger beatspacing, higher difficulty. The part you mentioned was pretty inconsistent with beatspacing-rhythm. I'll try to look into more parts like these.
I'm aware that some of the parts have almost unreasonable beatspacing. Almost unreasonable. To me, I've reached some kind of limit and am looking over the edge.

eyup wrote:

Finally, you should make an easier difficulty of this to cater for all players.

'Grats on a great first effort. Starred.

When I have the time, I'll fix some things and try making an easier version. And maybe, just maybe, I'll change some of the difficulty beatspacing in there. But not by much.
And thanks for the star.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

eyup wrote:

Had another look at this, the hard version seems pretty good now, I'm OK with it considering you meant it as a mega-frustrating hair pulling map. You masochist XD

I prefer to call myself a sadist rather than a masochist. I learnt from one of the best

eyup wrote:

With the easier version, I think it definitely needs consistent beatspacing (close to 100% of the time). Beginners will be pretty put off by the spacing changes. Try holding down Alt and then dragging your beats around to get an idea of what the beat spacing should be. You can adjust the spacing multiplier by using your mousewheel whilst holding Alt.

I changed the beatspacing to be more reasonable. I think it's pretty consistent now.

eyup wrote:

A problem that afflicts both versions (I think) is the ultra-short breaks, which are useless and a distraction more than anything else. For example, at 3:33.85 in the song. To remove them, right click on them in the timeline.

Good luck!

Ah, the ultra short breaks. They basically dim the lights for a second and show you the arrows immediately. I put them in to warn the player of incoming hard bits.
But yeah, they're distracting. I removed them now.

Hard: I don't approve.

Easy:Slider @ 01:07:38: ends too early?

... I don't approve of this one either.

Due to spacing. Sorry. I'd normally go and list all the inconsistencies I find, but from what I've read you've done them so intentionally, so...

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

EiJi wrote:

Hard: I don't approve.

Easy:Slider @ 01:07:38: ends too early?

... I don't approve of this one either.

Due to spacing. Sorry. I'd normally go and list all the inconsistencies I find, but from what I've read you've done them so intentionally, so...

I looked at this. I tried making it end a bit later, but then it gets inconsistent with the vocals:

"Straight from the top of my dome" (My guess at these lyrics)
It starts at "Straight" and ends at "dome"
I guess the lyrics end a bit early, which makes the slider do the same. When I make the slider longer, it doesn't improve at all, it only feels less natural. (I'd say try it yourself)
Basically this is what I could call a confirmation. Are you sure you want me to change this?

<onlyhalfserious>
And yes, intentionally hard beatspacing is the way to go. It scares the little children. When the player gets used to parts of a song, they must be knocked off of their socks by an unexpected revamp to keep things interesting. It's either putting in more beats or changing the spaces. Both have their ups and downs. I wasn't aware of this kind of discriminative behaviour towards spacing changes.
</onlyhalfserious>

peppy wrote:

01:03:94 (5,1) - feels really unnatural

Noted and it will be fixed.

peppy wrote:

02:00:65 (3,4,5,6) - ick

My precious. My sweet tablet-made beat of pain and suffering (for anyone who plays this beatmap). I've worked so hard on this one, why must it be!
(sudden change of expression)
Okidoki, noted. I'll make it less horrible. Or perhaps even more so. As long as I remove the confusion, right?

peppy wrote:

02:39:64 (5,6,7,8,9,10) - BIG no-no

Same beat, less confusion. Noted.

peppy wrote:

02:50:20 (1,2,3,4) - 3-4 needs more space

Noted.

peppy wrote:

02:55:16 (3,4,5 vs 1,2,3) - spacing suddenly doubles! this is quite annoying

Noted.

peppy wrote:

02:59:97 (1,2,3) - 1-2 should be more spaced

Noted.

peppy wrote:

03:02:34 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - OK, so we know the beat of the song by now, but this is still annoying to play :/

My mission is complete.

This will undergo the same change as the problem you pointed out with 02:00:65
It will remain a sadistic piece of evil and difficulty. It prevents the beatmap from being just sheepish-evil.

peppy wrote:

03:15:75 (7,8) - i don't mind this kind of jump too much

Noted. 8 and 9 should switch places.

peppy wrote:

Don't get me wrong - this is a really well made beatmap... but without some spacing fixes I can't personally approve :/. Hell, I would approve if it was an insane map, but you've gone somewhere in between - I would really like to play the hard version for FUN with decent spacing, rather than get frustrated at playing it. Problem is, its sitting on a "hard" difficulty with "insanely stupid" beat spacing. You should probably synchronise this in either way.

No problem. I'm happy I get so much constructive criticism. It's either praise or help. Praise is nice, but help is much nicer.



I'm going to reconsider all spacing in both versions. There are some parts I will revamp to make more difficult but less confusing.

Darn, and I tried so hard not to be a beatspacing nazi too

I just looked at my old Linkin Park map and the beatspacing on that is ridiculous. But it's still darn fun though. There are a few other older maps like that. Are we in danger of killing fun/challenging maps by enforcing beatspacing that strictly? I thought Ewoud made it perfectly clear that it's meant to be misleading because that's the whole point of the map. That's why I asked him to make an easier, well beatspaced map to complement the insane one.

That's probably a debate we should have in the Mods forum, not here. In any case, thanks Ewoud for taking the mods' crits on board. You've definitely got talent with mapping, can't wait to see this ranked and other songs from you as well!

It scares the little children.

Although you're only half serious, I think you shouldn't do maps like that.
What if some newbie really wants to play your beatmap but its too hard for him/her?
He might go like this and quit Osu!

So thats -1 for us, not yours.

But since you've made an easier version, so its all good.

----

Okay so these are the things that I can say about your map.
On hard:
Spacing. Yep. Spacing. As stated by other mods.
*I'm too lazy to read those posts before so...*
[notturningOCmodeon]
01:01:52 - Why is this farther than the others?
01:04:08 - And why is this closer than the others?
01:13:24 - Same as comment #1
01:15:80 - Same as comment #2
01:29:35 - Its OK but I don't like it. Its kinda confusing. I'm pertaining to 1, 2, and 3.
01:46:18 - Same as comment #2
01:53:86 - Ouch! The spacing of this combo is..
02:03:75 - Same as comment #2
02:09:79 - Move it by 1/4 beat backward? Sounds better.
02:11:43 - Move a little bit farther?
02:40:56 - This should be farther, seriously.
02:50:26 - Farther from 3.
02:53:56 - Place the tail of the slider to 1.
02:57:22 - Farther from 7.
03:11:32 - I don't know what to say to this one. Coast to coast!
03:14:24 - Same as above.
03:15:53 - Switch it to where 9 is currently at.
03:32:18 - Should be equidistant.
03:36:07 - Same as comment #1
03:47:94 - Place it closer to the previous circle.
[/notturningOCmodeon]

I think it sounds better at tick rate 2? idontknow...
And I think you should make those sliders faster, or double the bpm on hard. Kinda boring.
[flashback]I remembered having a beatmap with 2 kinds of spacing and chan/Echo is against it[/flashback]

I think you are making a map only for yourself, not for others. You place notes the way you like it.
Nice timing on first try though. I remembered I get my first timing for like 2 hours?
And also grats for making those Eiji (creative) Sliders. Liked it.

(this post has accidentally been edited, parts are missing)
<afteredit>
If I deny the issue, that means I've fixed it.
</afteredit>

James wrote:

01:01:52 - Why is this farther than the others?
01:04:08 - And why is this closer than the others?
01:13:24 - Same as comment #1
01:15:80 - Same as comment #2

1. It isn't.
2. Same here
3 and 4: What the hell are you talking about?

James wrote:

01:46:18 - Same as comment #2
01:53:86 - Ouch! The spacing of this combo is..
02:03:75 - Same as comment #2

You're talking nonsense and stuff.

James wrote:

02:09:79 - Move it by 1/4 beat backward? Sounds better.

All right. In this one, I tried moving it back by 1/4 beat. It really doesn't improve at all. In fact, it makes my spider-sense tell me something is wrong. Only replace "spider" with "beat".

James wrote:

02:11:43 - Move a little bit farther?
02:40:56 - This should be farther, seriously.
02:50:26 - Farther from 3.
02:53:56 - Place the tail of the slider to 1.
02:57:22 - Farther from 7.

1, 2, 3: Huh?
4: What you talking about? That tail is practically slamming the next beat.
5: I don't see the problem.

James wrote:

03:11:32 - I don't know what to say to this one. Coast to coast!
03:14:24 - Same as above.

Yeah, isn't it great?
Actually, I believe there is enough beat-time between the two beats for it to actually be doable. Hard, yes, but doable. If I do change it (and I will consider that), there will be little difference.

James wrote:

03:15:53 - Switch it to where 9 is currently at.
03:32:18 - Should be equidistant.
03:36:07 - Same as comment #1
03:47:94 - Place it closer to the previous circle.

I deny your blasphemous accusations!

WTF DID I JUST PRESSED EDIT THIS MORNING?!!?
Anyays...

EwoudCP wrote:

James wrote:

01:01:52 - Why is this farther than the others?
01:04:08 - And why is this closer than the others?
01:13:24 - Same as comment #1
01:15:80 - Same as comment #2

1. It isn't.
2. Same here
3 and 4: What the hell are you talking about?

Look at the timeline and the spacing of the beats boy, they should be equidostant.

James wrote:

01:46:18 - Same as comment #2
01:53:86 - Ouch! The spacing of this combo is..
02:03:75 - Same as comment #2

You're talking nonsense and stuff.

You still don't understand the art of beatmapping, since this is your first attempt.

James wrote:

02:09:79 - Move it by 1/4 beat backward? Sounds better.

All right. In this one, I tried moving it back by 1/4 beat. It really doesn't improve at all. In fact, it makes my spider-sense tell me something is wrong. Only replace "spider" with "beat".

I don't know about that. Just let the other mods decide?

James wrote:

02:11:43 - Move a little bit farther?
02:40:56 - This should be farther, seriously.
02:50:26 - Farther from 3.
02:53:56 - Place the tail of the slider to 1.
02:57:22 - Farther from 7.

1, 2, 3: Huh?
4: What you talking about? That tail is practically slamming the next beat.
5: I don't see the problem.

Spacing dood. SPACING!!! haha

James wrote:

03:11:32 - I don't know what to say to this one. Coast to coast!
03:14:24 - Same as above.

Yeah, isn't it great?
Actually, I believe there is enough beat-time between the two beats for it to actually be doable. Hard, yes, but doable. If I do change it (and I will consider that), there will be little difference.

Yes its doable, and I got one like this in one of my beatmaps too, but this is farther than far!

James wrote:

03:15:53 - Switch it to where 9 is currently at.
03:32:18 - Should be equidistant.
03:36:07 - Same as comment #1
03:47:94 - Place it closer to the previous circle.

I deny your blasphemous accusations!

Spacing. . . If you use distance snapping you'll see what I mean on every spacing comment that I told you.

Aah! My post has been mutilated!

You edited out the part where I said that if I denied the issue, that meant I followed your advice and fixed it.
So yeah... Distorted messages.

A lot of other stuff has been edited out as well.

Rest In Peace, my post

I didnt edit on it, i just quoted on your post by mistake! haha I'll revery it back.

EDIT: fixed

Not all is well, there's a good bit missing from the post.

Lemme make a note of that...

Nope, i just QUOTED on your post, so I don't think there are any missing.

James wrote:

Nope, i just QUOTED on your post, so I don't think there are any missing.

What the...? The original post had much more text than that. I first said some stuff, even quoted eyup. My memory doesn't fool me. I even talked about how I could use the taps on Lord of the Dance to make beatmaps.

When I checked later on, I saw that the post I left the day before that was quoted and commented. Then I noticed that that post was mine. The quote you put up in the post after that is exactly how I found my own post. Sure, now your commentary is gone from the "original", but my post has not been recovered fully, only partly.

Now all that's left are my responses and quotes to your pointers. The foreword to those responses are gone as well - and the stuff I said at the end of my post is missing as well.
There, I simply said that if I denied the issues, that meant I fixed it. After which I pretended to be oblivious to most of your pointers - meaning that they were fixed already. It's my type of humor.

Mistakes happen. 40-60% of my post is missing, no big deal. I just wanted to make that clear to everyone. And I don't want people thinking I'm oblivious to the concept of beatspacing just because part of the context was removed.

Anyway, as I said in the missing part of that post, I updated both Simple Enough and Frustrating2Many with a re-evaluation of the beatspacing - some parts are still pretty beatspace-painful, but that is purely for difficulty and not for confusion. I did notice that some parts are still pretty annoying - and I still haven't fixed those parts because I'm a busy man or something.

EwoudCP wrote:

James wrote:

Nope, i just QUOTED on your post, so I don't think there are any missing.

What the...? The original post had much more text than that. I first said some stuff, even quoted eyup. My memory doesn't fool me. I even talked about how I could use the taps on Lord of the Dance to make beatmaps.

When I checked later on, I saw that the post I left the day before that was quoted and commented. Then I noticed that that post was mine. The quote you put up in the post after that is exactly how I found my own post. Sure, now your commentary is gone from the "original", but my post has not been recovered fully, only partly.

Now all that's left are my responses and quotes to your pointers. The foreword to those responses are gone as well - and the stuff I said at the end of my post is missing as well.
There, I simply said that if I denied the issues, that meant I fixed it. After which I pretended to be oblivious to most of your pointers - meaning that they were fixed already. It's my type of humor.

Mistakes happen. 40-60% of my post is missing, no big deal. I just wanted to make that clear to everyone. And I don't want people thinking I'm oblivious to the concept of beatspacing just because part of the context was removed.

Anyway, as I said in the missing part of that post, I updated both Simple Enough and Frustrating2Many with a re-evaluation of the beatspacing - some parts are still pretty beatspace-painful, but that is purely for difficulty and not for confusion. I did notice that some parts are still pretty annoying - and I still haven't fixed those parts because I'm a busy man or something.

I just removed Eyup's quote thats all, too lazy to copy paste it back. Sorry about that.

I stand by what I said in my previous post.


Anyways, I think that with the latest update my beatmap is about finished. What do you think?

Spacing is ALOT better than before. Nice job on that.
But I think Peppy Hare wants to say something about hard...

I think the timing is worse than before. Could be me though, i'll try again later :p

edit: nevermind it was me :p.

anyway from 02:01:00 till 02:02:33 I think the taps are a bit too far apart... Feels kind of weird considering the speed at which you need to tap...

mrtn wrote:

anyway from 02:01:00 till 02:02:33 I think the taps are a bit too far apart... Feels kind of weird considering the speed at which you need to tap...

At first the beatspacing in this bit was much worse (2-3 times the distance). Having to swing your mouse/tablet pen from side to side with this kind of speed is supposed to give the player a challenge. The player already knows this part (and I will assume that the player is skilled enough to know at which speed the taps go, considering the amount of them), so I don't think timing will be such an issue. As for the spacing - as I said, it's to keep the thing challenging in one way or another.

This modding thread has been migrated to the new "modding discussions" system. Please make sure to re-post any existing (and unresolved) efforts to the new system as required.