why even so much emphasis on 9.8 its just ar7+hr
9.6 is more beneficial
9.6 is more beneficial
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Should I be trying to read AR9.8 yet?
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9.8 is what people use to compensate for their lack of AR7 reading skills.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/7158B1rd wrote:
9.8 is what people use to compensate for their lack of AR7 reading skills.
right
At his rank, the only benefits will be just the ability to read it anyway, cos I doubt he will be doing much dt fc's. The same ar7 song will be easier to play with hr than with dt most of the time.Riince wrote:
why even so much emphasis on 9.8 its just ar7+hr
9.6 is more beneficial
No, you should not. I didn't make the jump to 9+ until rank 7k or so if memory serves.
You have to remember that your own experiences don't coincide with the rest of us.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
No, you should not. I didn't make the ump to 9+ until rank 7k or so if memory serves.
I started effortlessly sight reading AR10 at like 14k
"Effortlessly sight reading," yet there isn't a single HR play in your top ranks (the HRDT hard doesn't count). I'm well aware that my experiences are not the same as most other players, which is why I gave a rank rather than a playcount; I didn't have any need to play past ar9 until around 7k when it became immensely helpful for continuing to rank up.
Why doesnt DT count? Are we talking about aim or AR, I'm quite confused.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
"Effortlessly sight reading," yet there isn't a single HR play in your top ranks (the HRDT hard doesn't count). I'm well aware that my experiences are not the same as most other players, which is why I gave a rank rather than a playcount; I didn't have any need to play past ar9 until around 7k when it became immensely helpful for continuing to rank up.
I still can't read ar10 either woo
True... still 9.6 which I can sightread without a problem. AR 10 feels just a tiny bit quicker but I can still sight read it unless the map itself is hard.Noobsicle wrote:
ar8+dt isn't ar10
huh.. what would your definition of sight reading be? i thought sight reading meant passing/fcing the map for the first time S:Loves wrote:
True... still 9.6 which I can sightread without a problem. AR 10 feels just a tiny bit quicker but I can still sight read it unless the map itself is hard.Noobsicle wrote:
ar8+dt isn't ar10
i can do ar9.6 easily (well the maps themselves weren't really that difficult but yeah), ar10 just kills me
yay!!GoldenWolf wrote:
I still can't read ar10 either woo
My definition is the same as yours.Noobsicle wrote:
huh.. what would your definition of sight reading be? i thought sight reading meant passing/fcing the map for the first time S:
i can do ar9.6 easily (well the maps themselves weren't really that difficult but yeah), ar10 just kills me
My DT run on PonPonPon which was like 133 pp or something was a complete first try sightread with no retries, thats when i realized i could sightread 9.6Noobsicle wrote:
what would your definition of sight reading be? i thought sight reading meant passing/fcing the map for the first time S:
i can do ar9.6 easily (well the maps themselves weren't really that difficult but yeah), ar10 just kills me
ikr niqqas on this thread postin' like sightreading AR 10 be like tryna get on the Forbes list smhRiince wrote:
My DT run on PonPonPon which was like 133 pp or something was a complete first try sightread with no retries, thats when i realized i could sightread 9.6Noobsicle wrote:
what would your definition of sight reading be? i thought sight reading meant passing/fcing the map for the first time S:
i can do ar9.6 easily (well the maps themselves weren't really that difficult but yeah), ar10 just kills me
Honestly, if you can HR AR 7 , you have potential to DT AR 7.
We're talking about AR (aim? what?), and DT doesn't count because it isn't AR10. 9.6 is substantially slower than 10.Loves wrote:
Why doesnt DT count? Are we talking about aim or AR, I'm quite confused.
Sight reading complex maps on AR10 isn't rocket science, but it isn't something most players can do either.Loves wrote:
ikr niqqas on this thread postin' like sightreading AR 10 be like tryna get on the Forbes list smh
IMO 9.68AR and 10AR is pretty much the same. I'm pretty sure most better players will agree that AR10 on complex maps makes everything easier because of less circles on the screen and more time to react to a couple of circles instead of reacting to 4-5.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
We're talking about AR (aim? what?), and DT doesn't count because it isn't AR10. 9.6 is substantially slower than 10.Loves wrote:
Why doesnt DT count? Are we talking about aim or AR, I'm quite confused.Sight reading complex maps on AR10 isn't rocket science, but it isn't something most players can do either.Loves wrote:
ikr niqqas on this thread postin' like sightreading AR 10 be like tryna get on the Forbes list smh
AR10.3 is a different story all together.
not even close for me.Loves wrote:
IMO 9.68AR and 10AR is pretty much the same.
it's like the difference between AR10 and AR10.33Riince wrote:
not even close for me.Loves wrote:
IMO 9.68AR and 10AR is pretty much the same.
i think the actual difficulty of the map has a lot to do with the difficulty of reading the AR. Most 20K players could probably FC some AR8 hards+HR with enough tries, bu they'd flounder on insanes.
The difference between AR10 and AR10.3 is actually quite a bit bigger than AR9.68- to AR10.
I said 'like the difference'. But thanks for stating an obvious fact anyway.
ZenithPhantasm
It only feels different because of the way perception works, the brain struggles to make sense of sudden changes in visual stimuli, and so increasing the speed incrementally at high AR creates this "ohgahd that is not ar10.6 that is ar9000" sensation.
Should I be trying to read AR9.8 yet?Well first, you can "see" AR9.8, anyone can see AR9.8, because the eyes are just that sensitive. Second, what you should be worrying about is developing muscle memory so you can respond to patterns and tap with good accuracy. I believe that is what reading is all about.
Literally yes, but the feel of 10.3 is much quicker than 10 thus why maybe only a couple of hundred of players can actually effecctively read ar10.33.ZenithPhantasm wrote:
Its the same...Loves wrote:
The difference between AR10 and AR10.3 is actually quite a bit bigger than AR9.68- to AR10.
AR9.68: 500ms-> AR10: 450ms-> AR10.3: 400ms
50ms difference
I also suspect the marginal gap between (ms) AR9.67 to 11 decreases at an exponential. Not sure though
As you've pointed out, AR10 is generally easier on exceptionally complex maps once you've gotten used to it, but the two are not the same or even fairly similar, especially for sight-reading, and most players simply cannot sight-read complex maps on AR10. And let's not forget that all the same arguments can be applied to 10/10.3; the change is more drastic due to the fact that 50ms is larger relative to 450ms than to 500ms, but a player who's got the reflexes and practice to read 10.3 will find it easier on more complex maps than 10.Loves wrote:
IMO 9.68AR and 10AR is pretty much the same. I'm pretty sure most better players will agree that AR10 on complex maps makes everything easier because of less circles on the screen and more time to react to a couple of circles instead of reacting to 4-5.
Most of the difficulty associated with AR changes isn't actually due to the AR change. 9.6 to 10 usually comes with an increase in CS and a drastic change in map style, and 10 to 10.3 usually comes with a massive tempo boost, which is why it seems like such an insurmountable hurdle when it really isn't.
I think it's probably better to look at high AR reading as a requirement rather than a skill in itself. So you should start with ar10 once insanes are too easy aim and accuracy wise, and learn AR10.33 once the majority of AR8+DT maps are too slow for you. If you're rank 20K there's not much benefit from being able to read AR10.
Agree.
Honestly how many players can you name read 10.3? There must be a reason to why 10 is the limit for the majority of better players
Subjective. I feel that the gap between 9.6 and 10 is quite huge. However the gap between 10 and 10.3 feels about the same (hugeness), so I can only play 10 on easier-to-read maps, and 10.3 on easier-to-read-and-slower maps, which means map complexity plays an important part, as Goldenwolf mentioned earlier.Loves wrote:
Literally yes, but the feel of 10.3 is much quicker than 10 thus why maybe only a couple of hundred of players can actually effecctively read ar10.33.
The reason 10.3 feels so much harder is because of the maps which use AR9 already. Most of them become way too fast to read, let alone tap to, and can carry an OD just as high or higher than HR sometimes, while there are plenty of slower and easier AR8 insanes to slap HR onto.
You should start doing it when you're getting 99% on your typical insanes (excluding physical challenges such as maximising finger-speed, aim-speed or stamina). So IMO, your ability to read and be accurate is foremost important before you move onto playing AR10. If you don't "master" both of these, on ultimately easier settings, you'll quite likely lose your ability to play low AR, since - in speculation - you'll attach your accuracy to your reaction time, instead of reading patterns in advance to determine their timing.B1rd wrote:
I think it's probably better to look at high AR reading as a requirement rather than a skill in itself. So you should start with ar10 once insanes are too easy aim and accuracy wise, and learn AR10.33 once the majority of AR8+DT maps are too slow for you. If you're rank 20K there's not much benefit from being able to read AR10.
I don't even know why people think this is a statistical game based on map settings. To use myself as an example (since I'm slow), the slowest AR10.3 I've even come close to FC'ing is Vidro Moyou (DT). The rest are too fast for my fingers and for my reading. I can't say I can read 10.3, because there are practically no maps I can actually play with it. The majority of players are also slow too... FYI.Loves wrote:
Honestly how many players can you name read 10.3? There must be a reason to why 10 is the limit for the majority of better players
ZenithPhantasm
What makes you think 10 is the limit? You don't see a whole lot of 10.3 FCs, but that's because DTing AR9 insanes is really tough, not necessarily because people can't read 10.3.Loves wrote:
Honestly how many players can you name read 10.3? There must be a reason to why 10 is the limit for the majority of better players
Thats the same as saying 10.3 is hard to read because I'm pretty sure there's no correlation between map difficulty and AR (at least up until 9). Most hards and insanes hang around 8-9.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
What makes you think 10 is the limit? You don't see a whole lot of 10.3 FCs, but that's because DTing AR9 insanes is really tough, not necessarily because people can't read 10.3.Loves wrote:
Honestly how many players can you name read 10.3? There must be a reason to why 10 is the limit for the majority of better players
I personally believe 10.3 is hard to read because purely, it's just faster. After my first good AR10.3 FC last night, I'm more inclined to say 10.3 is harder than 10 period. It's not so much as reading as reaction/reflex. If you blink at the wrong time, you could miss 2-3 notes easily.
Okay, but for that logic to work you have to be able to extend it back to 9.6/10. Is 10 harder than 9.6, period? Or is it only harder if you don't have the reflexes for it?
When you get right down to it, there just aren't that many AR9 maps that are both easy and slow, but there are plenty of AR8 maps that are. Yeah, you can bliink at the wrong time and miss 2-3 notes easy, but you can do (and I have done) the same thing at 9.6 if you don't know when and how quickly to blink. AR10.3 is difficult because of the map selection in the same way no-mod AR10 is.
When you get right down to it, there just aren't that many AR9 maps that are both easy and slow, but there are plenty of AR8 maps that are. Yeah, you can bliink at the wrong time and miss 2-3 notes easy, but you can do (and I have done) the same thing at 9.6 if you don't know when and how quickly to blink. AR10.3 is difficult because of the map selection in the same way no-mod AR10 is.
i actually find ar10 harder when the maps are lower bpm which includes hard rock on typical easy insanes because it's so nerve wracking to pretty much only have one or two notes on the screen at once at any time. there's just no flow it's like snap pause snap pause snap pause wheres the fun? ar10 doesnt even become comfortably flowable until like 220 bpm
I was with you until you said 220. You might be doing it wrong.