Hello all! I'm not very prominent in the osu community's forum (in fact I haven't posted here at all before), but I recently had been thinking of osu's ranking system and was thinking of some potentially helpful changes that could be implemented. Of course, these are simply ideas and I humbly request for no harsh comments, but instead helpful requests, criticization, and general discussion about the idea.

Now, as for my ideas, I was thinking of a new way for the osu community to rank. I think this new way would be more fair to players with less time under their belts, and more forgiving to higher players and the amount of opportunities to make PP available to them.

Seeing as the current setup has seemingly made the PP level just about infinite, I think it would be for the benefit of the community if we were to adopt a seasonal reset in the ranks. Not only would this change allow for newer players to be more accurately ranked, but it would also allow the best players to remain in the top places. The way I'm considering the idea is that say about after ever Osu! world's, there could be a reset in the PP, starting everyone back to either zero or a certain percentage of their last season's PP. The rankings from the last season could still be in place if say your PP was reduced to a fifth of what it had been, to be fair to all the players, but lower players would then also have more of a chance to catch up to the high ranking players that have been playing for years more.

In addition to the increase in fairness using this new system, it would also make it easier for the top 1000 players to gain more PP, seeing as there is currently no cap and the difficulty to gain PP with the current system also has no cap. Eventually, songs would likely not exist that any of the top 5 could play with however many mods that would allow them a fair share of PP. With a reset, this could be easily avoided, and would also give more opportunity to the lower ranks to catch up. This new system would allow for more competition, and more steady ranking.

This is but an idea but I would love to hear responses considering this matter

We recently got a new ranking system. PP does not currently work the way you described, and this is also the wrong place for this topic.

Lach wrote:

We recently got a new ranking system. PP does not currently work the way you described, and this is also the wrong place for this topic.

Ah, oops, let me revise my proposition a bit and move it to the other board. Apologies.

Having ranks being deleted or diminished over time would be pretty frustrating, in the current system each top performance acts as a sort of "trophy" that shows what you are capable of.

Players that don't play a certain game mode for more than 1 month are considered inactive in that mode, so lower level players don't have to beat inactive players to rank up anyways.

This proposed system would bring more accurate results if the skill of some players for some reason decreases over time, but actually that doesn't happen very often from what I have seen.

To keep ranking up you need to keep increasing the difficulty of the maps you play and make records progressively more impressive, top 1000 players or even top 5 players just have to keep pushing their limits to rank up. Currently, there are thousands of maps that haven't been perfected by anyone, when considering mods; also, the game mechanics allow making even harder maps than the ones that are currently ranked, so if the skill of players surpasses the current maps, they can just rank harder maps.

If a song can't reasonably have a map with a difficulty that challenges the top players, then having a map of that song that increases the rank of a top player doesn't make sense for a skill based rank system. Having a system where any map can potentially increase the rank of any player would make it possible to get a good rank just by playing dozens of thousands of easy maps, and doing that doesn't usually mean you can play hard maps.

Full Tablet wrote:

Having ranks being deleted or diminished over time would be pretty frustrating, in the current system each top performance acts as a sort of "trophy" that shows what you are capable of.

Players that don't play a certain game mode for more than 1 month are considered inactive in that mode, so lower level players don't have to beat inactive players to rank up anyways.

This proposed system would bring more accurate results if the skill of some players for some reason decreases over time, but actually that doesn't happen very often from what I have seen.

I'm not saying your rank would be deleted or diminished, what I had been proposing was simply a reduction in your current PP every reset of the system. Perhaps it could be 20% of your last season's PP that you begin with every start, and that way everyone would still be in the same ranks, just at lower levels of PP. I do understand why that would be frustrating to some players though. I just think something like this would reduce the stress of aspiring to be in the top 50 (most of which have been playing for at least 3 years) if you has been playing for simply a year. It would increase how competitive players were especially in the beginning of said proposed "season."

A reduction in your pp essentially means that your ranks must be diminished, otherwise the pp calculations become all weird, because your pp will not add up to your total pp. This doesn't make sense. Also, are you proposing that the person can gain back pp by beating his previous score on a map? Or do you have to play other maps? Playing other to gain back pp is in my opinion a very bad idea as it first will cause a ton of frustration, and also it makes finding maps hard especially when you a top tier player. However, if you have to beat your own score, what happens with SS's or other high rank scores that are almost or literally impossible to beat (and even worse if that play was your top play?) If you don't have to beat your own score, what do you do with the better score that you already have?

If you are proposing that we only add a sort of % reduction or amount reduction on people that you take away from the total and just leave the pp calculation as is, what you will find is that people who have played longer will get more pp reduced, and I find this very unfair, as they have to try harder and play more, even if they don't want to. People don't lose their skill, but people can surpass other's skill quickly if they really try.

One can also just turn scores null and reset that way, and perhaps get it to work, but that just seems really aggravating. You spend tons of time for a good rank, and then it just goes null... i.e. it doesn't give you anything at all anymore, and you have to grind again.

Also, you can become top 50 with enough effort. There have been people who have played only around 2 years and reached such ranks. It's possible and you have to try. Making it so that lower ranks can more easily reach top 50 with pp farming just doesn't seem right. The top deserves to be top, and also as stated before, inactive players are taken off the list. If you are aspiring to reach it there, you also are required to put in the effort. The top players put in years of effort to reach that point, one who aspires to reach that point should also be ready to put in that effort. Some people have natural talent and get there earlier, and others don't, but that is a fair way of reaching into the top tier list, whereas "making it easier for other aspiring players to reach the top 50" is a little less fair I would say.

I'm going to use League as an example. On league, resets work because theoretically an infinite amount of games can be played with different people. Resetting won't do harm since everyone is affected equally usually. Since osu! requires beatmaps for its point system, you can't just get infinitely more ranks. A reset will mess up people's scores and will make certain things harder to do for some than for others.

I will not outright say this is impossible, but it will require a lot of thinking and planning to make it an equal reset.

Pretty sure there is a thread on this as well in Feature Requests, but not so sure

plz no league ranking system =w=

also i don't think this is the correct subforum to discuss this..

this is the BEATMAP ranking criteria (unless im retarded and clicked the wrong forum)

Moved

There isn't much point, as ranks in osu involve your best plays, as opposed to your average plays. The game definitely wouldn't be as fun if it was based around your average plays. And as such, ranking is based on the player with the most awesome plays. Due to the PP weighting, it's not like playing a long time gives you any more PP. It's pretty much determined just by skill. There is no reason to reset.

This is pointless because pp scores already have diminishing returns. In other words, the more pp you get, the harder it is to get pp, until the point where it literally becomes impossible (of course, no one has hit that peak yet). There is no reason this needs to be implemented with the new pp system we have.

It would really piss me off if my scores got seasonally removed. I wouldn't play osu.

Also even with seasonal resets, new players don't stand a chance as a skill player can go pump out a few scores and be out of reach again

uh yeah, getting my pp reset = me quitting the game lol

This is a terrible idea. Let me just put 500+ retries into a map and have its value reset to zero, OKAY FUN GAME xD

in fact, if this is a troll, well done sir, i was irritated briefly.

I don't see any purpose of seasonal or annually PP reset. As someone stated above, the current PP system can only be farmed up to a cap as the lower PP scores will be weighted less and less until 0. In order to get more PP you have to keep getting higher and higher PP scores. Some people's rank was really hurt because of this change, notably Beatrice and ShadowSoul

Really doesn´t make sence everyone already stated many reasons why, i could also say that it´s not impossible for new players to surpass already high ranked players since you have to constantly push your skills to gain more PP its not only accumulation, so no PP is not infinite it caps at your maximum playing ability and you have to keep pushing it to gain more. So let´s say you are new, pp gain will be easy at first and keep getting more difficult, if you can keep pushing your level you will definetly surpass a "high" ranked player if you reach his play skill and get good scores, it´s not necessarily a matter of play time, but of quality scores time (in terms of PP).
So yeah a player who starts fresh can surpass any player in the game if he gets the necessary skill, but that requires TIME and PRACTICE, so it´s not a matter of the PP system but instead of the practice you put into the game to be able to get high rank, therefore changing the PP system will never ever make that fact any different. Just play alot, or forget about ranks and go fun once in a while...

Rankings > charts

Sure its not pp based but its a resetting ladder! The interest for it is rather low though so it is not something you can compare yourself to other players on.
So rather than requesting more changes to the pp system i think improving the charts and boost peoples interest in them would be preferable.

For example the charts could include all maps from period x and look at the 5 songs that has earned you the most pp out of those maps
Making it pp based would make long vs short maps more comparable and as the pp formula improves it will become harder to pinpoint the 5easiest to farm maps of the month.

(just some quick input! Im on the phone... On the toilet.. At work.. Over and out!)

They should integrate charts with the client, a bit like collections... since when I used to play charts, I sorted all those chart maps into one collection. It was a bit of effort and I think accessibility (people are EXTREMELY lazy) is the biggest problem with charts. More people would play them if they didn't have to click on each map opening their browser to find out if they got the right one and then add to a collection. Most people just want to play and that's it, it's a game, shouldn't be more than a click way, not several clicks. Charts should fit into the style of "just play" as well.

I used to play them myself back when they included more maps.. Until i realised how uncompetitive they were, usually a few people take it seriously and use a few hundred tries on them but in general i think most people just go for the longer FCs then they're done (if they give it any attention at all)
So basically the low interest people were showing them is what turned me away

It might be different now that there aint as many songs in them but i doubt it

But, as i mentioned before. coming up with a good feature request for the charts feels more on point for this thread then changing the pp system.. The very fact that none had mentioned them pretty much proves how few people care about them

RaneFire wrote:

They should integrate charts with the client...

This is going to happen.

YayMii wrote:

RaneFire wrote:

They should integrate charts with the client...

This is going to happen.

Oh shit. I've never even tried test build before... should probably be using it. I only got supporter for checking out country and friends ranks and that's about it. lol. I still download packs because I have no taste for music in this game haha.

I remember seeing peppy's stream a long time ago with that charts button as a resource file.