A beatmap's hit objects, hitsounds and timing must be created exclusively by direct human input without the use of any generative tooling. Creating beatmaps is a fundamentally creative process, so using shortcuts like generative AI is unacceptable for ranking.
A beatmap's hit objects, hitsounds and timing must be created exclusively by direct human input without the use of any generative tooling. Creating beatmaps is a fundamentally creative process, so using shortcuts like generative AI is unacceptable for ranking.it might be easy to interpret "generative tooling" as including mapping tools. however i would see those tools as modifiying rather than creating, as they generally take what you already did for a certain task (i.e. copy the hitsounds you already made yourself to another difficulty).
So what's the difference between AI-generated timing points and a regular BPM analyzer? AI-generated timings are terrible (in the plan approval), but a regular BPM analyzer is tolerable?tilda wrote:
mapping tools is fine, ai is not
what the ranking criteria says is quite clear on this imo:A beatmap's hit objects, hitsounds and timing must be created exclusively by direct human input without the use of any generative tooling. Creating beatmaps is a fundamentally creative process, so using shortcuts like generative AI is unacceptable for ranking.it might be easy to interpret "generative tooling" as including mapping tools. however i would see those tools as modifiying rather than creating, as they generally take what you already did for a certain task (i.e. copy the hitsounds you already made yourself to another difficulty).
Refer to the original comment by peppy on the Ranking Criteria proposal that pushed for this change. More specifically:Ani-Exstra wrote:
So what's the difference between AI-generated timing points and a regular BPM analyzer? AI-generated timings are terrible (in the plan approval), but a regular BPM analyzer is tolerable?
An AI timing assistant is truly a cool thing for both amateur and experienced mapping enthusiasts, especially when working with live tracks or compilations. (I'm talking specifically about timing assistance, not full-blown mapping.)
In short, so long the tools you use are deterministic (That means that the same inputs will always lead to the same outputs, outside of any randomized/seeded algorithm) you can use it. Analyzing a beatmap using Mapset Verifier or similar tools is A-Okay. Tools like, for example, Tempora are safe to use as they simply help users visualize their map's timing in a more comprehensible manner.peppy wrote:
(for clarification, when referring to AI, i mean anything that is more than an algorithm. helper tools which template or generate hitobjects, timing, or anything else, which are based on user inputs creating a given deterministic output, where the source code is available and has no black-box logic, are fine)
People shouldn't have to dig through forum threads to understand what a RC rule refers to. It doesn't specify at all what exactly isn't allowed so it can easily be misinterpreted. Even deterministic tools can fall under the current rule without further context.RandomeLoL wrote:
Refer to the original comment by peppy on the Ranking Criteria proposal that pushed for this change. More specifically:Ani-Exstra wrote:
So what's the difference between AI-generated timing points and a regular BPM analyzer? AI-generated timings are terrible (in the plan approval), but a regular BPM analyzer is tolerable?
An AI timing assistant is truly a cool thing for both amateur and experienced mapping enthusiasts, especially when working with live tracks or compilations. (I'm talking specifically about timing assistance, not full-blown mapping.)In short, so long the tools you use are deterministic (That means that the same inputs will always lead to the same outputs, outside of any randomized/seeded algorithm) you can use it. Analyzing a beatmap using Mapset Verifier or similar tools is A-Okay. Tools like, for example, Tempora are safe to use as they simply help users visualize their map's timing in a more comprehensible manner.peppy wrote:
(for clarification, when referring to AI, i mean anything that is more than an algorithm. helper tools which template or generate hitobjects, timing, or anything else, which are based on user inputs creating a given deterministic output, where the source code is available and has no black-box logic, are fine)
So long you don't make use of a opaque black box disguised as an AI model that's explicitly trained to complete a task by generating an output given user input (or any other input), you will be fine.
+1, though to the original poster: using an AI timing tool is currently considered using AI and is therefore unrankable.McEndu wrote:
While I do not disagree with the premise on the AI ban, I state my point here: decent AI-generated timings would be indistinguishable from decent human-made timings, and the timing checks routinely carried out by BNs would catch poor timings both human and AI. As such, the ban on AI timing:I am ok with banning AI hit objects or hitsounds; the mapper's understanding of their map can give off enough signs during the modding process, so it is not as unenforceable as the AI timing ban either.
- is redundant when AI-generated timings are bad and
- will not be enforceable when AI-generated timings become decent.
Per peppy's comment, it's still rankable as long as you ensure the timing is correct while mapping:niat0004 wrote:
...to the original poster: using an AI timing tool is currently considered using AI and is therefore unrankable.
and while ppy also states they do not want AI to generate or modify the .osu files directly, there is no way to know whether the timing is directly edited in or "inputted" if the mapper does not state the tool they use.peppy wrote:
Using generative AI tooling as part of your workflow and inputting and testing the results in the editor via standard gameplay flows is not disallowed...
peppy's comment doesn't matter when it comes to rankability. if it's prohibited by the RC (which it is), it's unrankable.McEndu wrote:
Per peppy's comment, it's still rankable as long as you ensure the timing is correct while mapping:peppy wrote:
Using generative AI tooling as part of your workflow and inputting and testing the results in the editor via standard gameplay flows is not disallowed...