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The Road to Cookiezi-Tier

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Woobowiz wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Could a guy with 10pp DT Koigokoro? Not very good logic.
I think his point was that one really doesn't have the right to call a map a "farm" map or an "easy" map if they can't farm it themselves.
I think it is not necessary to be able to farm a map to call it farmable - the assumption that a map is a "farm/easy" map can be based on other players' experience/pp gain with that map, or on its relative difficulty to pp ratio.
miss you and koigokoro give similar pp
chainpullz

Woobowiz wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Could a guy with 10pp DT Koigokoro? Not very good logic.
I think his point was that one really doesn't have the right to call a map a "farm" map or an "easy" map if they can't farm it themselves.

But then that logic would then crumble by the fact that someone better than me can make the same claim, then I'd be in deep shit.
Oh shoot, a better player has an easier time at a map than you do? I wonder why?

Also, you can't hit rank 1 simply by pp farming. You'd be hard pressed to call anyone in the top 5 a pp farmer even. The thing is, if a map is farmable then there's no reason for the top players to not all put it at the top of their to-do list if they care about being rank 1. I know there are a lot of players around the top who might not care, but there's enough that do to prevent you from hitting rank 1 from farm maps alone. Refusing to play a single "farm map" is like playing blue control without Jace and preordain.

You'll hit the same walls just like anyone else if you choose the route of "farm maps." Woobowiz isn't bragging that hes hot shit because hes rank 1337 or w/e. If he was then you would potentially have grounds to criticize. It's undeniable that if you want to be #1 you will have to be capable of fc'ing the "farm maps." Why is it so bad to get that out of the way from the start and then work on polishing afterwards?

If you want to bitch about some maps giving too much pp for what you believe they are worth, go bitch at tom instead.
Topic Starter
Woobowiz
I can't brag when there's tons of people better than me! Otherwise I'd just look like a massive tool. I'd rather be seen as a massive attention whore than some sort of bragger.

I try to make it clear that I try not to pp-farm (disregarding daidai genome and koigokoro) and actually try to run plays that not a lot of people can do. Like Winter Love, E.T., and Kimi no Gin no Niwa
cheezstik

chainpullz wrote:

Oh shoot, a better player has an easier time at a map than you do? I wonder why?

Also, you can't hit rank 1 simply by pp farming. You'd be hard pressed to call anyone in the top 5 a pp farmer even. The thing is, if a map is farmable then there's no reason for the top players to not all put it at the top of their to-do list if they care about being rank 1. I know there are a lot of players around the top who might not care, but there's enough that do to prevent you from hitting rank 1 from farm maps alone. Refusing to play a single "farm map" is like playing blue control without Jace and preordain.

You'll hit the same walls just like anyone else if you choose the route of "farm maps." Woobowiz isn't bragging that hes hot shit because hes rank 1337 or w/e. If he was then you would potentially have grounds to criticize. It's undeniable that if you want to be #1 you will have to be capable of fc'ing the "farm maps." Why is it so bad to get that out of the way from the start and then work on polishing afterwards?

If you want to bitch about some maps giving too much pp for what you believe they are worth, go bitch at tom instead.
You seem to have had a pretty massive change in philosophy and attitude in general towards DT and farm maps since you made this thread.

chainpullz wrote:

If your top scores are DT scores on MLP maps, do you ever stop to hate yourself? I guess the same could be asked about maps like Koigokoro that seem to be absurdly overweighted. Is the pp worth selling your soul to the devil?
B1rd

Woobowiz wrote:

I can't brag when there's tons of people better than me! Otherwise I'd just look like a massive tool. I'd rather be seen as a massive attention whore than some sort of bragger.

I try to make it clear that I try not to pp-farm (disregarding daidai genome and koigokoro) and actually try to run plays that not a lot of people can do. Like Winter Love, E.T., and Kimi no Gin no Niwa
Didn't you say something before though about not playing no-mod because it had a bad effort to pp ratio? It sort of seems like you're farming simply because you only play DT and nothing else. Unless you really don't care about other skills and just want to be good at DT?
ZenithPhantasm
This thread no longer makes sense to me.
chainpullz
Oh I definitely still think the 30 second MLP maps are shameful. There's like nothing to learn from them and they are pretty much played solely for the pp. I only brought up koigokoro as a potential discussion branching point having no personal experience with the map myself. I still think the 180-200 bpm early DT maps are pretty stupid because pretty much any equivalent star difficulty nomod map with same bpm is significantly more difficult and rewards less pp. The faster DT maps at least require you to have a skill beyond those developed in nomod maps.
ZenithPhantasm

chainpullz wrote:

Oh I definitely still think the 30 second MLP maps are shameful. There's like nothing to learn from them and they are pretty much played solely for the pp. I only brought up koigokoro as a potential discussion branching point having no personal experience with the map myself. I still think the 180-200 bpm early DT maps are pretty stupid because pretty much any equivalent star difficulty nomod map with same bpm is significantly more difficult and rewards less pp. The faster DT maps at least require you to have a skill beyond those developed in nomod maps.
Fast fingers=pp
RSI/Carpal=no pp

This is obvious people.
Vuelo Eluko

chainpullz wrote:

You'd be hard pressed to call anyone in the top 5 a pp farmer even.
Everyone except rrtyui fits the description, they go out of their way to get the highest pp:effort ratio possible. once one person finds some map thats overrated and way too easy for what it gives, the others follow for that reason.
Deathripi

Riince wrote:

chainpullz wrote:

You'd be hard pressed to call anyone in the top 5 a pp farmer even.
Everyone except rrtyui
have fun playing game.
Karuta-

Deathripi wrote:

have fun playing game.
170k playcount isn't fun
chainpullz

Riince wrote:

chainpullz wrote:

You'd be hard pressed to call anyone in the top 5 a pp farmer even.
Everyone except rrtyui fits the description, they go out of their way to get the highest pp:effort ratio possible. once one person finds some map thats overrated and way too easy for what it gives, the others follow for that reason.
Because that's what you have to do to maintain your rank? I think you are completely overlooking all the maps they play that aren't "farm maps." Unless we use an extremely loose definition of "farm map," the argument goes like this: Assume all of the top 5 ranked players are pp farmers. The skill level of the top 5 players is close within reason. If one player finds a farm map, the other 4 will be skilled enough to play it as well and will go play it themselves. Each player is awarded a similar amount of pp differing based on accuracy. We expect to observe that 1) The highest pp player is no more than a few hundred pp above the lowest pp player (for having higher overall accuracy and 2) there is some correlation between ranking and accuracy. If you look at the top 5 ranked players you'll see neither of these thus our assumption must be off.

As I've already said, not playing any farm maps is like playing blue control at a pro tour with no JTMS/Preordain. Doing so is pretty much giving up any sort of meaningful prize money. Nobody who's goal is to be relevant is going to completely ignore them. All of the top 5 players have notable non-"farm map" scores that create a wider gap than mere accuracy. In a top 8 with the full 32 JTMS/Preordian the winner is decided by who plays the best. The same applies here.
winber1
everyone is a pp farmer to some extent by such definition, but if that's the case, then why would we have a term for something that everyone, with no exception, does? if that is the norm, then there is no negative connotation to it, but if everyone is not a pp farmer, then there might be some meaning to the term. a human that can walk has no special appeal or meaning if we all can walk, and likewise pp farming is not bad or good, rather it's literally just a redundant term, if we all pp farm.

but i will say that there are certain people who are lower ranked than they should be and some that are higher ranked than they should be, and in those cases we could probably say some have pp farmed. anyone in the top 10 or 100 pretty much deserves to be there, and if that's the case, i would not say they have truly pp farmed unless they are clearly worse than their rank says.

therefore, 2+2=5 QED
Deathripi

[MY] yummy90 XP wrote:

170k playcount isn't fun
You could have fun playing that much.

winber1 wrote:

Insane wall of Logic
therefore, 2+2=5 QED
yes.
Default

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Fast fingers=pp
RSI
This is obvious people.
RSI should give bonus pp
xasuma
lol
Topic Starter
Woobowiz
solid valid proof by winber1 through tautology

xasuma wrote:

lol
you bring up a valid point
ZenithPhantasm

Default wrote:

ZenithPhantasm wrote:

Fast fingers=pp
RSI
This is obvious people.
RSI should give bonus pp
Already got RSI. Where's my bonus pp?
Zunv
Saw this thread so i thought why not also do a video. Maybe someone can tell me something of how to improve or stuff like that :)
I am playing since about 3 month now.
I looked for a (at least for me) hard map to pass. The video shows my first pass ever on it.

My setting for someone interested:
Tablet player (full are) with full screen 1920x1080 gameplay

D e s
goodluck
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